Werewolf CLXI - GAME OF THRONES: GAME OVER!! (See Post #2356--Page 48)

[Chief Rum]

King Stannis Baratheon (Autumn) has named Ser Davos Seaworth (InBlue) as his Hand.

[Chief Rum]

King Joffrey Baratheon (Zinto) has named Tywin Lannister (hoopsguy) as his Hand of the King.

[Narcizo]

It appears I have trangressed another of the Kingdom's rules. As Queen Regent I believed, erroniously, that I would be above such petty rules but it seems I was mistaken.

(I thought we could send one PM to each player/day. In retrospect I realise that that would be quite a lot of PMs zinging around. Luckily Chief caught it before I'd spammed the lot of you ).

[hoopsguy]

Cersei overstepping boundaries? Say it is not so!

You are far from the only one whose reach exceeds their grasp in this group.

[Narcizo]

I am sure that as I speak the great lords of the land are meeting in councils, plotting and pondering how to risk the emnity of a house by being seen to be the first to break ranks and accuse someone. I have no such compunctions and am prepared to sacrifice myself and make my vote as my conscience tells me. The fact that my vote counts for less than that of a convicted smuggler or foreign witch is a source of vexation to me. But I shall use it as I choose fit and hope that others recognise the sense of what I am saying.

Vote Melisandre/Bulletsponge

Can there be any real doubt that a heretical witch from across the seas can be anything BUT an enemy of the realm. Nobody knows what foul powers she commands and this is the reason she should be declared a traitor.

Convicting the witch will hopefully open Stannis' eyes to his folly before he slips further down the slope to heresy. He will have to execute the witch and renounce her foreign god or declare himself wholly in the Red Priestess' dominion by pardoning her. And conseqently losing whatever small respect he has among the people of the realm. To release her would risk her powers falling into the hands of another King, a risk I am sure that Stannis will not allow.

Furthermore if the red witch chooses to flee from Stannis before he can bring his judgement upon her this will leave her alone and unable to fight off whichever King chooses to capture her. Of course, I am certain, that none of the other noble houses would wish to embrace such a heretical sorceress and make use of her dark powers, despite the obvious temptation to do so. Clearly everyone in the realm (saving a few misguided heretics) will feel safer if the uncertain powers of the witch are removed from the shores of Westeros for good.

[Coffee Warlord]

Chief - If I send my Hand as emissary to another King, do I still retain PM rights with him that day?

[Coffee Warlord]

And second question - can you only ever have 3 bannermen in your employ at one time?

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Lord Stannis Baratheon, Lord Renly Baratheon - Your family does not escape blame in this matter. It was the prodigious anger of your brother which was the ultimate undoing of any chance for a prolonged peace.

*Lord Varys*

No one who has ever met me has ever suggested I resemble my brother, Lord Varys, certainly not in acting rashly or out of anger. I will rule because the kingdom needs a ruler, and one that is fit. Renly is like my older brother, but without his use as a warrior. Joffrey and Robb are too young to rule a kingdom. The choice for you is clear.

[Autumn]

You consider it brave, Cersei, to call for the head of a priestess and advisor with no soldiers to her name? Melisandre serves a different god, it is true. But she serves a god. Perhaps she frightens you, Cersei, because you know there is no god who you can hide your foul crimes from.

You suggest the kingdom rid itself of a holy woman for what? So we can take our spiritual concerns to you? Or is it to distract us from the fact that your family houses a monstrous murderer and a kingslayer? What has Melisandre done that can compare to the crimes of Jaime Lannister or Gregor Clegane?

If the Lannisters want to prove themselves fit to rule, let them begin by cleaning their own house. I understand the bonds of family, so perhaps they can show their honor by instead casting out a man guilty of more violent murders than any other in this realm.

VOTE SER GREGOR CLEGANE / JULIO RIDDOLS

[Narcizo]

I am uncertain as to the crimes of my brother, my lord Stannis. Do you refer to his decision to kill the tyrant king and pave the way for your own brother to take the crown?

I can agree that Clegane is not a traditional chivalrous knight and I could certainly be swayed in voting for him at a later stage but the fact remains that your pet witch and her eldritch powers provides a threat to everyone in the realm while she is unleashed. Nobody could accuse Clegane of offering a subtle threat. The same is not true for the "holy woman" you speak of.

[Autumn]

Her threat is so subtle it is lost on me. I'm curious how you have discovered it when I, her liege lord, know nothing about it. I suppose I'm a simple man. I find a sword more threatening than a priestess.

[Coffee Warlord]

Though we have heard some disturbing rumors of this Priestess in the North, a man, or a woman's gods is their own business. Are the Seven not still shown respect in the North, the place of the Old Gods? Do we deny southerners their rights and lives simply because they worship different gods than us?

Let men worship what gods they will.

[DaddyTorgo]

RULE QUESTION:

So just to clarify - if I receive a PM and respond to it, that response constitutes my 1 PM for the day, right? It's "1 PM total" not "1PM+1 response PM"

[JAG]

I don't think that's correct. He says there could be 21 PM's and responses in the rules, so I think that means a response is not you taking the initiative and sending your PM.

[DaddyTorgo]

RULE QUESTION CLARIFICATION:

My question in post #313 is in reference to people who the player does not have full-communication rights with (presuming that full rights mean those PMs are not counted towards the 1, right)

[Autumn]

DaddyT is so committed to being the master of whispers he won't even tell us who he is. *coughsignaturecough*

[Coffee Warlord]

Spiffy interactive map if you're wondering where shit is.

Interactive Game of Thrones Map with Spoilers Control

[path12]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

My lord Renly - perhaps you were correct in saying that Lord Varys has the interest of the realm at heart. But does it not seem possible that his interpretation of where the realm's interest lies diverges decisively from your own interpretation?

Lady Cersei, perhaps I was hasty yesterday -- Westeros is in crisis and you certainly have your part to play in that crisis, as your "dealings" with your brother have led to a false King on the Iron Throne.

I am a man that believes in justice. While I believe that you (and Littlefinger) have not served the realm well in the past, fairness insists that I judge you on your actions from this point forward.

As I have stated, I welcome those bannermen and lords that serve the peoples and the realms aim, and have no use for those who do not.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I am sure that as I speak the great lords of the land are meeting in councils, plotting and pondering how to risk the emnity of a house by being seen to be the first to break ranks and accuse someone. I have no such compunctions and am prepared to sacrifice myself and make my vote as my conscience tells me. The fact that my vote counts for less than that of a convicted smuggler or foreign witch is a source of vexation to me. But I shall use it as I choose fit and hope that others recognise the sense of what I am saying.

Vote Melisandre/Bulletsponge

Can there be any real doubt that a heretical witch from across the seas can be anything BUT an enemy of the realm. Nobody knows what foul powers she commands and this is the reason she should be declared a traitor.

Convicting the witch will hopefully open Stannis' eyes to his folly before he slips further down the slope to heresy. He will have to execute the witch and renounce her foreign god or declare himself wholly in the Red Priestess' dominion by pardoning her. And conseqently losing whatever small respect he has among the people of the realm. To release her would risk her powers falling into the hands of another King, a risk I am sure that Stannis will not allow.

Furthermore if the red witch chooses to flee from Stannis before he can bring his judgement upon her this will leave her alone and unable to fight off whichever King chooses to capture her. Of course, I am certain, that none of the other noble houses would wish to embrace such a heretical sorceress and make use of her dark powers, despite the obvious temptation to do so. Clearly everyone in the realm (saving a few misguided heretics) will feel safer if the uncertain powers of the witch are removed from the shores of Westeros for good.

dont be envious Narcizo, i know you wish the red witch was in your keep

[Zinto]

Originally Posted by Autumn

You consider it brave, Cersei, to call for the head of a priestess and advisor with no soldiers to her name? Melisandre serves a different god, it is true. But she serves a god. Perhaps she frightens you, Cersei, because you know there is no god who you can hide your foul crimes from.

You suggest the kingdom rid itself of a holy woman for what? So we can take our spiritual concerns to you? Or is it to distract us from the fact that your family houses a monstrous murderer and a kingslayer? What has Melisandre done that can compare to the crimes of Jaime Lannister or Gregor Clegane?

If the Lannisters want to prove themselves fit to rule, let them begin by cleaning their own house. I understand the bonds of family, so perhaps they can show their honor by instead casting out a man guilty of more violent murders than any other in this realm.

VOTE SER GREGOR CLEGANE / JULIO RIDDOLS

Of course Uncle you would want to try to take out Ser Gregor. He is a fearsome warrior and one that would smash anyone in your pitiful army. What crimes do you accuse Ser Gregor of committing? Being a good knight and loyal to his king and thus killing enemy soldiers. If that is the case then you may need to dismiss all of your Knights.

[Chief Rum]

A good question has come up in private: Can a Hand still PM with his King if he is sent as an emmissary?

The answer is no. As I told the faction in PM, King-Hand PMing is kinda like private planning sessions in the King's war tent, while each faction thread is akin to being in the faction's war camp.

So if you serve as an emmissary, you're not present in the King's tent or in the war camp. Which is why you can't participate in PMing with the King that day (or read the faction thread).

[Chief Rum]

But each Hand still has his daily PM to use if he likes. He can send a PM to his King that day, if need be, and the King can respond once, as per the rules.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Zinto

Of course Uncle you would want to try to take out Ser Gregor. He is a fearsome warrior and one that would smash anyone in your pitiful army. What crimes do you accuse Ser Gregor of committing? Being a good knight and loyal to his king and thus killing enemy soldiers. If that is the case then you may need to dismiss all of your Knights.

Quiet boy, and let the men speak. And before you call me uncle, you may wish to ask your mother some difficult questions.

No true knight in this realm supports what Clegane does on the battlefield. Now that you have betrayed the realm and stolen the throne, he is an enemy of all who side with justice. All we ask is that you deliver the justice he deserves.

[Julio Riddols]

I serve only to protect the king, and the realm he reigns over. It is my job, and my intent.

I am not a man of politics, but Stannis Baratheon claims he is the "rightful" heir, but what good is a "rightful" heir who has been turned into a puppet? He projects Melissandre as a weak, non influential non-entity publicly, but privately, I suspect she pulls all the strings and even he does not know it. Does it benefit the realm to allow Stannis to rule with that witch whispering lies into his ear? She is too inconspicuous to ignore.

[Coffee Warlord]

While I've no doubt myself and Stannis do not see eye to eye on all things, we see eye to eye on one matter - murderers of innocents cannot be suffered in either North or South.

VOTE SER GREGOR CLEGANE / JULIO RIDDOLS

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

She is too inconspicuous to ignore.

Leave the reasoning to the men at the council table, warrior. The Lannisters would have us direct our fear and anger at a holy woman, because she is quiet. I have heard that the Lannisters can twist truth but it would take quite a silver tongue to convince anyone of this. Ignore the armies and murderers sitting in King's Landing so that we can deal with a woman who is "too inconspicuous?" I don't think any of us are that foolish.

[Zinto]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

While I've no doubt myself and Stannis do not see eye to eye on all things, we see eye to eye on one matter - murderers of innocents cannot be suffered in either North or South.

VOTE SER GREGOR CLEGANE / JULIO RIDDOLS

Who are these innocents that Ser Gregor killed? Your pitiful soldiers are not innocent. I ask you how many innocents has Melisandre burned? You ask that all gods be worshiped but you know she will burn your weirwood trees if she has the chance.

[Autumn]

Just a head's up to anybody else who missed it, there's a lot more rules posted.

[Julio Riddols]

It's not my fault innocents got in the way of me doing my job. I do as I am told, and make sure the job is done. If that means blood on my hands, so be it. My loyalty cannot be questioned.

[Autumn]

Yes, well your loyalty to a false king doesn't mean much to anyone else.

[Chief Rum]

A House Baratheon of Storm's End has been seen in the House Stark camp.

[MrBug708]

Which means what?

[Autumn]

He saw you on the privy, Mr. Bug.

[MrBug708]

He should have.checked Tywin's as it would have yielded gold

[hoopsguy]

Today will be interesting as we watch to see how alliances are formed. It is unlikely that any of the would-be rulers are strong enough on their own to silence all of the other armies.

I have felt the resentment towards Joffrey and our house in this thread and have concerns over how this will translate into action on this eve. However, I would remind others that Lannister can be a strong ally. Lannister will, however these politics play out, have a great deal to say about the makeup of the final two kings who will contest the throne.

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Leave the reasoning to the men at the council table, warrior. The Lannisters would have us direct our fear and anger at a holy woman, because she is quiet. I have heard that the Lannisters can twist truth but it would take quite a silver tongue to convince anyone of this. Ignore the armies and murderers sitting in King's Landing so that we can deal with a woman who is "too inconspicuous?" I don't think any of us are that foolish.

Even you yourself have been taken by her charms it appears. I ask you this - If she is just a quiet holy woman, then what makes her different from any other quiet holy woman? You yourself should fear her influence, but sadly it seems you are blinded by the belief that you are indeed Azor Ahai. She believes what she sees in the fires and now you too have fallen under the spell. What happens when the spell is broken and you find yourself with nothing but faith in a false God?

[Autumn]

As far as I can see, Clegane, Melisandre has done the realm no harm. If we can all say the same, more honor to us.

[Julio Riddols]

The problem is you can't see beyond the end of your nose.

[hoopsguy]

If I were Renly, I would have some grave concerns about Melisandre. I'm not Renly, I can't tell him how he should feel.

But to suggest that Melisandre is some pastor giving a sermon twice on Sundays is a delusional viewpoint held only by Stannis. Not even his own bannermen will subscribe to that notion, although they liked are too cowed to speak their concerns publicly.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Today will be interesting as we watch to see how alliances are formed. It is unlikely that any of the would-be rulers are strong enough on their own to silence all of the other armies.

I have felt the resentment towards Joffrey and our house in this thread and have concerns over how this will translate into action on this eve. However, I would remind others that Lannister can be a strong ally. Lannister will, however these politics play out, have a great deal to say about the makeup of the final two kings who will contest the throne.

I'm curious about this Lord Paramount. You have a sense of reverence to your Grandson, who is the byproduct of incest between the treacherous Kingslayer and your daughter. By all reasoning, he should be a Lannister as he is 100% that.

Yet when it comes to your other son, one would think you have anything more than reluctant disdain for your own flesh and heir to the Westerlands. So why the reluctance to embrace your one true heir?

Is it because Joff is the oldest son of your oldest son, making him your true heir?

I would gladly wish for a son again, dwarf or not, after mine were cut down by he Kingslayer

[Chief Rum]

It was brought to my attention that you don't have a cocnept of how large and small lands are, or what are coastal or inland. That seems rather silly to me, so here is that information.

These land rankings are based only on how they are overall producing gold and men, not ships (which not all lands produce). The lands are shown in alphabetical order in their groupings, so do not take the order I put them in as indicating a rank within that group.

The Lands in Blue are Coastal lands, and the Lands in Green are Inland only (unable to produce ships).

THE RICHEST LANDS

Casterly Rock, Highgarden, King's Landing, Riverrun, Storm's End, Winterfell

WEALTHY LANDS

Brightwater Keep, Dragonstone, The Dreadfort, Harrenhal

PRODUCTIVE LANDS

Blackhaven, Duskendale, The Karhold, Maidenpool

MODERATE LANDS

The Arbor, Crakehall, Summerhall, The Twins

POOREST LANDS

Clegane's Keep, Deepwood Motte, Fairhaven, Parchments, Cape Wrath

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Zinto

Who are these innocents that Ser Gregor killed? Your pitiful soldiers are not innocent. I ask you how many innocents has Melisandre burned? You ask that all gods be worshiped but you know she will burn your weirwood trees if she has the chance.

Let us start with the infant child of the late Prince Rhaegar. Followed by the rape and murder of the boys own mother, and let us not forget the countless other innocents your Mountain has slaughtered.

And if the Red Priestess wishes to burn the weirwoods, we will give her to her own flames. But the law does not punish what might be done. The law punishes what has been done. Clegane deserves no pardon for his sins, nor does he deserve a place in honor in this realm.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Chief - If I send my Hand as emissary to another King, do I still retain PM rights with him that day?

I think I have since addressed this (lots of PMs lol), but just in case, no, you don't.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

And second question - can you only ever have 3 bannermen in your employ at one time?

Good question and wondered when it migth come up.

Yes, you can have more than three bannermen in your employ.

The tricky part will be them knowing that only three of them can win.

[Coffee Warlord]

Yeah, you did.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

RULE QUESTION:

So just to clarify - if I receive a PM and respond to it, that response constitutes my 1 PM for the day, right? It's "1 PM total" not "1PM+1 response PM"

If you receive a PM, you may respond once to it, irrespective of your personal PM rights.

Receiving a PM and responding to it does not lose you your own one PM per day right.

For instance, you could receive three PMs, and respond to all three, and you owuld still have your own PM you could send to whomever you wish.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I have felt the resentment towards Joffrey and our house in this thread and have concerns over how this will translate into action on this eve. However, I would remind others that Lannister can be a strong ally. Lannister will, however these politics play out, have a great deal to say about the makeup of the final two kings who will contest the throne.

Several of your family have much to answer for. But, the cold truth is, you neither held the sword nor gave the order to murder my father. Perhaps there is a glimmer of hope for you.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JAG

I don't think that's correct. He says there could be 21 PM's and responses in the rules, so I think that means a response is not you taking the initiative and sending your PM.

Correct. The responses don't count against the individual PM count.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Which means what?

I should have been more clear. An emmissary from House Baratheon of Storm's End was seen in the House Stark camp.

[Julio Riddols]

Suddenly when a man who is trained to murder does what he is trained for he becomes a threat to the realm? Don't be naive, Robb Stark. Stannis may be plying you with wealth and warriors, but do not let his mistress pull the veil over your eyes. He has no desire to be slowed in his desperate reach for the crown, and the witch will certainly make sure he keeps his focus. She has a lot to gain by this. I, on the other hand, have nothing to gain. Perhaps past crimes should not be of such great concern when the intent of all those who reach for the crown is to seize it for themselves. You can be a stepping stone or you can forge your own path without the old man's ravings clouding your mind.