Soccer Thread 2014-15

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I think the kid has potential, but he isn't close yet. It's infuriating to me to see Wenger and his attitude toward Giroud.

I was shocked Giroud didn't start - Sanago simply isn't good enough technically or intelligence wise in the Premiership in my opinion, he might be one day but presently his control isn't quite close enough to hold onto the ball and he never seems to know what to do with it when he does get it.

As soon as Giroud came on I felt that things swung Arsenal's way - he seemed to command more respect from the defense and he was far cleverer in his movement and decision making generally ..

I'm afraid Sanago might well be another Bendtner - another player Wenger refused to admit wasn't quite as good as he thought he was.

2) Chambers is out of this world good. Maybe I'll eat my words in 3 years, but I don't see how Luke Shaw goes for double what Chambers did. This kid has serious game.

He's very good - but I'd still question if he's quite mature enough to be consistent at this level ... time will tell.

3) Hats off to CP. They could have played this game half ass and nobody would have blamed them.They worked their asses off. Fair play to them.

I thought they were fantastically well organised and a huge threat from set-pieces, Marouane Chamakh especially really impressed me.

[MrBug708]

Effing Aaron Ramsey

[whomario]

I could be wrong, but maybe Giroud simply wasn´t there yet physically after the world cup. He´s a big guy for an outfielder, don´t think getting in top shape and getting his stamina to where it needs to be comes all that easy for him.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by whomario

I could be wrong, but maybe Giroud simply wasn´t there yet physically after the world cup. He´s a big guy for an outfielder, don´t think getting in top shape and getting his stamina to where it needs to be comes all that easy for him.

Yeah I thought that might be the reasoning - but I'd have started him for impact and taken him off when in the lead rather than push him into a pressure situation late on.

I also just don't rate Sanago that highly - especially as Arsenal do have alternatives available.

(still from a result perspective Arsenal fans can't complain - they got the 3 points ...)

PS - In other more important news Brighton have actually announced a new signing today, we might actually be able to field a team without calling on youth players if we get a few more faces in soon ... (slight exaggeration but not by much).

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Yeah I thought that might be the reasoning - but I'd have started him for impact and taken him off when in the lead rather than push him into a pressure situation late on.

I also just don't rate Sanago that highly - especially as Arsenal do have alternatives available.

(still from a result perspective Arsenal fans can't complain - they got the 3 points ...)

PS - In other more important news Brighton have actually announced a new signing today, we might actually be able to field a team without calling on youth players if we get a few more faces in soon ... (slight exaggeration but not by much).

Exactly Mark. I'd rather have seen Campbell lead the squad than Sanago from the striker position. When Walcott comes back, I think Arsenal will be going to poacher route with him or Sanchez leading the line.

I think Arsenal are OK at striker so long as they are top shelf at every other position. The problem is the DM. We aren't top shelf there and Arteta will get exposed against the better teams again. I still expect Wenger is going to make another big signing before deadline day. I pray it is at DM.

[miami_fan]

Not sure what Company was supposed to do on that one.

[cschex]

I thought it was pretty obvious that Wenger was still resting Giroud from the World Cup and with the mid week trip to Turkey for the CL Qualifier. That doesn't mean I rate Sanogo over Campbell but I certainly don't view it as him being preferred to Giroud

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by cschex

I thought it was pretty obvious that Wenger was still resting Giroud from the World Cup and with the mid week trip to Turkey for the CL Qualifier. That doesn't mean I rate Sanogo over Campbell but I certainly don't view it as him being preferred to Giroud

Yeah I agree - but personally I'd have rested him by putting him on for the first half and then taking him off rather than pushing him in late in the game looking for a winner.

My reasoning is purely that if you put someone who isn't fully fit into a game you're chasing then he's more likely to strain or damage himself pushing for a 50-50 ball or similar whereas being on from the start the pressure isn't as great and the chance of injury is slightly diminished (theres also the fact that a starter has a proper warm-up sequence whereas subs often aren't fully warmed up in the same way etc.).

PS - You could see the tiredness of Yaya Toure in City's match today also for the same reason (World Cup hangover); he was still a very influential player on the pitch but he looked a little tired and his passing wasn't quite as precise as normal.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Not sure what Company was supposed to do on that one.

If I'm thinking about the same play as you, he probably could have avoided throwing his shoulder into the player who just hit the ball past him. I understand what you (and him) are saying. He had nowhere to go. If it ends up as an awkward play where both guys collide and fall down, he can play that card. When he turns the shoulder and drives it into the guys chest? Ummm, yeah, you are going to get called for the foul.

All of the big clubs looked poor with the WC hangover. Man U lost. Liverpool, Man City, and Arsenal all had close wins. Totenham with a close win and Everton a draw.

With one game left, there were only two EPL: teams to win at home this weekend. Road teams have posted 5 wins, 2 drawls and 2 losses. (Arsenal and Liverpool the only two home winners) This trend is very likely to continue tomorrow when Chelsea goes to Burnley.


Big fixtures next week: Arsenal @ Everton on Saturday. Liverpool @ Man City on Monday.

[whomario]

In NT news, Ribery retires from France (very curious decicion with the Home Euros coming up for France) and for Germany, after Lahm and Klose, Mertesacker also retires. The latter is good news for Arsenal (Per really has his work cut out masking his athletic deficits, the extra rest will help) but not for the german NT.
He´s sure replaceable on the pitch, but that´s another leadership-player and by all accounts amazing locker room personality who is gone... There´s no guarantee that Schweinsteiger will be there in 2016 or how often he´ll be there in between (he missed a ton of games the last few years and Guardiola has just pulled the plug on him and he is resting for the forseeable future)

[flere-imsaho]

The very real problem (well, ok, one of many) for Van Gaal is that he has no real wingbacks in the team, and he seems dead-set on needing them for his starting tactic. I'm sure Shaw can get there and arguably for Rafael it's a better position (as he's always seemed a bit suspect for me purely in defense).

The Guardian today commented that while it's clear Van Gaal still needs to make a few big signings before the transfer window closes, it's increasingly clear that he's going to have to most of the work himself, as Woodward clearly has serious problems operating in the transfer market, especially from a speed standpoint.

Which makes sense, as Woodward is a business guy with few if any actual football contacts in Europe, much less worldwide.

I remain convinced that Woodward was at least as much the problem last year as Moyes, and nothing so far will convince me otherwise at this point.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I remain convinced that Woodward was at least as much the problem last year as Moyes, and nothing so far will convince me otherwise at this point.

I entirely agree with this - I still believe Moyes is a very talented manager ... but if you're unable to sign the players you were expecting to fulfill your preferred style of play then you're obviously going to struggle somewhat, especially if you've just joined a very large club with high expectations and an aging/unbalanced squad.

It'll be interesting to see how the season unfolds - Man Utd have by far the easiest start to the season of any of the big clubs* and Liverpool the harshest** ... if United don't get a run together early on then they will surely find themselves struggling psychologically by the time they meet more competitive opponents.

*Man United initial fixture list - Swansea (H), Sunderland (A), Burnley (A), QPR (H), Leicester (A), West Ham (H), West Brom (A) - None of these clubs should be unbeatable either home or away for a side which is expecting to compete for the title.
**Liverpool initial fixture list - Southampton (H), Man City (A), Spurs (A), Aston Villa (H), West Ham (A), Everton (H) - 4 tough match ups there for them (Southampton, City, Spurs & Everton, although I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised to see Southampton as organized and competitive as they were after their summer selling spree).

[Coffee Warlord]

Wrong thread.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

As a side...have any of you managed to create a 4-3-3 (more accurately a 4-1-2-2-1 (4 defenders, 1 dm, 2 mc, 2 am, 1 st) with anything other than control/short passing/tiki-taka-esque instructions?

I've tried and tried and tried to run an up-tempo tactic with that formation, and we just surrender massive amounts of possession, and are almost always outnumbered on shot attempts.

Was this meant for the FM thread or are you coaching a real-life team?

(if you're coaching a real-life team, then outside of semi-pro and above levels I'd stick to keeping things as utterly simple as possible, play to your sides strength and rely on the opposition to make the mistakes to give you chances)

[law90026]

Re Arsenal's win:

a) starting Sanogo was a joke. He had some interesting games last year but he was again overawed in the PL. It's little surprise the first half saw a really poor attacking element from Arsenal since Sanogo wasn't even doing the little things right;

b) can't believe the amount of flak Sanchez is getting. He may not have burst on the scene with a hat trick but I thought he worked his ass off and he did a bunch of things right, including the assist for the equaliser;

c) a little concerned that Cazorla is done. He had an appalling game;

d) very concerned at the lack of defensive depth and I once again get the feeling Wenger is rolling the dice. Doubly frustrating when there's no need to since there is cash available.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Was this meant for the FM thread or are you coaching a real-life team?

Is there a difference?

[whomario]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

The very real problem (well, ok, one of many) for Van Gaal is that he has no real wingbacks in the team, and he seems dead-set on needing them for his starting tactic.

Is there a tactic where you wouldn´t have those issues in other areas ? It is not like Van Gaal is a life-long proponent of this system. I think his reasoning is that he feels he can get away with a weakness at wingback more than elsewhere, plugging in utility players and youngsters there if needed even. I mean, he installed it with the dutch NT and then ended up playing non-wingbacks there.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Was this meant for the FM thread or are you coaching a real-life team?

(if you're coaching a real-life team, then outside of semi-pro and above levels I'd stick to keeping things as utterly simple as possible, play to your sides strength and rely on the opposition to make the mistakes to give you chances)

Yeah, this was meant for FM. Heh.

Though, as a side, I'm hoping my kid gets interested in soccer when he gets a little older. It's one of the few sports I'd like volunteering to coach.

...and then having a bunch of little kids look at me strangely when I tell little Timmy he'll be playing as the Regista today.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by whomario

Is there a tactic where you wouldn´t have those issues in other areas ? It is not like Van Gaal is a life-long proponent of this system. I think his reasoning is that he feels he can get away with a weakness at wingback more than elsewhere, plugging in utility players and youngsters there if needed even. I mean, he installed it with the dutch NT and then ended up playing non-wingbacks there.

Well, it's interesting that he switched to a 4-2-3-1 after halftime, although that was probably more about the centre backs than the wingbacks.

But you raise a good point in that Man Utd is going to have challenges with most "standard" tactics due to problems throughout the squad (except, maybe, AMC & ST).

[DaddyTorgo]

BURNLEY!!!!!

Also: nbcsn streaming quality >> beinsport streaming quality.

Although to be fair they're different angles/distances.

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

And they woke Chelsea up wayyy too early.

Costa equalizes as he follows up a rebound that came off the far post. 1-1

[Neuqua]

Chelsea with their 2nd, absolutely beautiful goal.

[DaddyTorgo]

beautiful little through ball volleyed on to Schurrle's perfectly timed run.

2-1

[DaddyTorgo]

Neymar with his 2nd, 3-0 Barca.

Similar in that he timed his run perfectly. Put the first shot off the onrushing keeper but it was a weak palming and he finished it casually.

[DaddyTorgo]

Love that little highlighting toy the NBC guys have where they just showed you Schurrle's run...really picks out the beauty of the whole interchange and the timing of it all.

[DaddyTorgo]

That was mighty close to a PK IMO. I don't have the volume on, but I'm going to say that save for the fact that Costa and the ball were headed away from goal it should have been. So I guess the fact it wasn't called correctly isn't a direct issue there, but still - bad call to have blown, and to compound it by giving the yellow to Terry.

[DaddyTorgo]

Dola - and as I went back to watch it, Chelsea scored again.

Nice little interplay to setup the corner and its buried by Ivanovic.

3-1

[whomario]

Also, Courtois starting instead of Cech. I was actually surprised that Cech is "only" 32 years old, feels like he´s been all-world for so long that i would have thought he´d be 2,3 years older than that. Will be interesting how he handles this, if there is maybe some rotation or a work share like at Real last season.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Also: nbcsn streaming quality >> beinsport streaming quality.

I've been on the WatchESPN app on Apple TV this afternoon, Cottbus v Hamburg then Dresden v Schalke 04. The picture quality has been great, unless nbcsn has upped it's game this season, WatchESPN is still the king of streaming quality.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Critch

I've been on the WatchESPN app on Apple TV this afternoon, Cottbus v Hamburg then Dresden v Schalke 04. The picture quality has been great, unless nbcsn has upped it's game this season, WatchESPN is still the king of streaming quality.

Maybe I'll check that out and do a "quality-off"

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

That was mighty close to a PK IMO. I don't have the volume on, but I'm going to say that save for the fact that Costa and the ball were headed away from goal it should have been. So I guess the fact it wasn't called correctly isn't a direct issue there, but still - bad call to have blown, and to compound it by giving the yellow to Terry.

Costa got the yellow for diving - there was contact, but only because Costa had absolutely no intention of staying on his feet: if he had kept his stride pattern consistent there would have been no contact at all, and he might even have cut the ball back for another goal. Definite non-penalty for me, and if it stops him diving in the future, no qualms about the yellow, but the card was a bit harsh to be fair.

And the second goal was indeed magic - the first moment of the season not involving Leicester that's made me shout appreciation at what I've seen.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by AlexB

Costa got the yellow for diving - there was contact, but only because Costa had absolutely no intention of staying on his feet: if he had kept his stride pattern consistent there would have been no contact at all, and he might even have cut the ball back for another goal. Definite non-penalty for me, and if it stops him diving in the future, no qualms about the yellow, but the card was a bit harsh to be fair.

And the second goal was indeed magic - the first moment of the season not involving Leicester that's made me shout appreciation at what I've seen.

It didn't seem quite that clear-cut to me on the yellow to Costa for diving. He looked to me like he was trying to go over the GK and the guy's arm clearly made contact with his foot.

Tough to tell IMIO though. I can see it not being a penalty, but idk if it's a "dive."

Then again I'm at work and didn't rewatch it endlessly.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I think the kid has potential, but he isn't close yet. It's infuriating to me to see Wenger and his attitude toward Giroud.

1) If he thinks Giroud isn't good enough to start, he should have went after a pure striker. You don't say " this guy isn't good enough to lead the line so I'll throw in a guy who is worse:" I'm sorry, I love Wenger, but what he's doing here is utter nonsense. We cannot afford to blow points at home simply because he wants to try to convince everyone Sanago is a stud. Giroud comes in, draws what should have been a penalty and caused problems instantly for CP. He could have started that at, ya know, the beginning of the game.

Haven't caught up with the rest of the thread yet, but I think this was a pure fitness move. In no world does he think Giroud isn't good enough to start, he seemed to just be behind in his fitness regimen and Wenger felt it would be better to give him less game time. Maybe it also had to do with the Champions game tomorrow - knowing that Giroud was a little behind on fitness, I doubt he would have been able to start both games. As important as every EPL game is, qualifying for the champions league is massive and he'll want his best possible XI out there, minus ze germans.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by law90026

Re Arsenal's win:

a) starting Sanogo was a joke. He had some interesting games last year but he was again overawed in the PL. It's little surprise the first half saw a really poor attacking element from Arsenal since Sanogo wasn't even doing the little things right;

b) can't believe the amount of flak Sanchez is getting. He may not have burst on the scene with a hat trick but I thought he worked his ass off and he did a bunch of things right, including the assist for the equaliser;

c) a little concerned that Cazorla is done. He had an appalling game;

d) very concerned at the lack of defensive depth and I once again get the feeling Wenger is rolling the dice. Doubly frustrating when there's no need to since there is cash available.

a) thoughts above

b) agreed, he'll need time to settle in and you can still tell how dangerous he'll be even if the attack wasn't meshing all the time. partially have sanogo to blame for that.

c) he's been a fairly inconsistent player in his arsenal career, but i think he's far from done. he usually struggles if he's the main creative force, but he's always got a moment of magic in him. he just doesn't really like defending.

d) from all of the chatter it seems like we won't spend anything else until at least the first leg of the champions is done, and honestly more likely until after the second to ensure whether or not we're in the group stage. could be that we're not sure how much we want to spend, could be that the player(s) we are after don't want to commit without group stage play

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by whomario

Is there a tactic where you wouldn´t have those issues in other areas ? It is not like Van Gaal is a life-long proponent of this system. I think his reasoning is that he feels he can get away with a weakness at wingback more than elsewhere, plugging in utility players and youngsters there if needed even. I mean, he installed it with the dutch NT and then ended up playing non-wingbacks there.

Dirk Kuijt obviously isn't a wingback, but Blind, Janmaat and Martins Indi have spent most of their career at that position, including a good portion of the WC qualifying campaign when Oranje played classic 'dutch' 4-3-3. The other WC qualifying backs were injured (Willems, Van der Wiel) or severely out of shape (Van Rhijn).

But more importantly, I think Van Gaal values all 11 positions of his tactics nearly as important. And when you have the likes of Rooney and Van Persie walking around, it's obvious that your weakness and attention for improvement are elsewhere on the field.

[kingfc22]

Arsenal barely keeping this game 0-0 as Besiktas has missed a couple of really good opportunities thus far.

[Marc Vaughan]

Not saying the English Championship is a close league - but after a whopping 3 matches not a single team has maximum possible points ..

PS - Great result for Brighton this evening, 2-0 win away at Leeds ... finally got some points on the board

[SirFozzie]

To the shock and amazement of all, Barcelona had their appeal to FIFA REJECTED and had the two transfer window ban confirmed. They will be banned from buying new players for all of 2015. They of course, will take it to the final level, the CAS.

Barcelona transfer ban rejected by FIFA | FOX Sports

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

To the shock and amazement of all, Barcelona had their apoeal to the CAS REJECTED and had the two transfer window ban confirmed. They will be banned from buying new players for all of 2015.

Barcelona transfer ban rejected by FIFA | FOX Sports

Yeah - real nice that they held off on it pending appeal though - let them get a full transfer window in to restock their team first.

What a joke.

[whomario]

@ MJIB: I was under the impression that Martins Indi was more of a CB and Van Gaal personally seemed to see Blind better elsewhere, no ? But still, it was not like he had world beaters available and thus chose the system. Again, i´m pretty sure he is all about maximising the impact of his key players and building around that. Also, at ManU i think that Valencia and Young would be much better fits as wingbacks than anywhere in other systems. (and Shaw is made for that role, imo). And until you replace those players, i think it´s a valid idea.

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Yeah - real nice that they held off on it pending appeal though - let them get a full transfer window in to restock their team first.

What a joke.

i am not a super expert but from a legal POV i would think that this sort of appeal process was perfectly normal and anything other likely would have been highly unusual/illegal. I know we tend to think of sports (and their major leagues) as totally separate entities, but fact of the matter is that they are not. Well, at least not in Europe just yet And it is a totally different thing forbidding Suarez to play due to his action than it would be essentially forbidding innocent players choosing where they want to play and i am pretty sure that the fact that there were contractual agreements in place already (like Ter Stegen) would have made for a huge issue.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by whomario

i am not a super expert but from a legal POV i would think that this sort of appeal process was perfectly normal and anything other likely would have been highly unusual/illegal. I know we tend to think of sports (and their major leagues) as totally separate entities, but fact of the matter is that they are not. Well, at least not in Europe just yet And it is a totally different thing forbidding Suarez to play due to his action than it would be essentially forbidding innocent players choosing where they want to play and i am pretty sure that the fact that there were contractual agreements in place already (like Ter Stegen) would have made for a huge issue.

I'm sure you're right - but you have to admit that it does significantly reduce the impact of it that they were in essence able to "plan" for it.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Yeah - real nice that they held off on it pending appeal though - let them get a full transfer window in to restock their team first.

What a joke.

Seriously. Next summer window they will be "under appeal" and be free to do business as usual no doubt.

[Neuqua]

Looks like Jermaine Jones is going to sign with either the Chicago Fire or New England by week's end.

I was amused by my Fire Season Ticket rep who sent me an email titled "Jermaine Jones, Welcome to the Fire!" and then a minute later recanting the email saying while the Fire are close, negotiations are still ongoing.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm betting Chicago.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I'm betting Chicago.

No shit. And if he signs you'll say we're still not good, and if we do well you'll say he'll just be leaving soon.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

No shit. And if he signs you'll say we're still not good, and if we do well you'll say he'll just be leaving soon.

We'll be better - he won't solve all the problems but it'll be a step.

I'm going to keep being a pessimist on the organization until there's evidence of change at a high level.

At this point that's not just me being my pessimistic self, that's an earned reaction.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by whomario

i am not a super expert but from a legal POV i would think that this sort of appeal process was perfectly normal and anything other likely would have been highly unusual/illegal.

Indeed. There is a reason that court rulings are usually stayed pending appeal - because the potential for harm is great if the ruling immediately goes into effect and then is overturned on appeal.

[MrBug708]

Well the Crystal Palace head coach situation is certainly a mess right now

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

We'll be better - he won't solve all the problems but it'll be a step.

I'm going to keep being a pessimist on the organization until there's evidence of change at a high level.

At this point that's not just me being my pessimistic self, that's an earned reaction.

Looks like the deal is hung up because MLS will not guarantee Jones he will go to the Fire.

[Neuqua]

It's still disheartening to see that two of the better MLS 1.0 franchises have turned completely irrelevant in today's MLS due to ownership.

Speaking as a Chicago and Fire fan, the city embraces soccer (just look at the World Cup gatherings and Premier League ratings on tv) but the perception of the front office of the organization is not unlike that of the Blackhawks when Old Man Wirtz was running things.