Werewolf XLVIII - The horror of sorcery hill (Game over)

[Chief Rum]

All right, not willing to get into the Swaggs versus Pass discussion, nor interested in a revenge vote on st. cronin for his vote on me. And I don't feel strongly enough about my meta-hunch.

So I will.

VOTE LSG

I only chose LSG, so that Izulde doesn't run away with it, putting more decision pressure on remaining votes or switches.

[Swaggs]

I feel like I'm on a totally different page here. Hopefully some of you guys have some finished items/spells/potions, because I don't feel real comfortable with things resolving themselves.

I'm going to vote for the candidate in the lead that I least trust, as I don't want my vote to go to waste. After reading things over, I think his explanation of what happened to him last night sounds very little like what I learned and what others apparently learned (in success and failure).

Unvote Passacaglia

Vote Izulde

[Chief Rum]

Now, as to meta hunch, just a little devil's advocate, and probably shouldn't be taken seriously. But Barkeep's strong opposition to our no lynch move on Day One leads me to wonder if he's coming out so strongly for a move that certainly had the makings of helping the wolves, so as to set himself up as a more trustworthy player. In other words, sorta hiding out in the open.

What tripped it for me was BK's demeanor. He was a midly antagonistic about the concept, and we're talking about a guy whom I consider to be one of the nicer, more courteous people around. It's just an odd reaction that makes me feel like he's playing up a role.

But like I said, a complete meta-hunch with no actual evidence to back it.

[Alan T]

I was asked clarification on this, and don't like game mechanics being the subject of the game.

Its possible that people might not get PMs at night if there is nothing to report to them.

As mentioned in the rules, anyone who does not send in a room PM, should assume they spent the night in the great hall.

This should speak nothing on the guilt or innocence of anyone or anything people have said, just trying to clear up the game mechanic for missed actions.

[Izulde]

Well, it appears a lesson's being learned here... Be sure to send in your night actions. *shrugs* I didn't get a PM other than the initial role PM, with an item whos value I'm not certain of so I've got nothing to tell you guys.

FWIW, if LSG forgot to send in her night action PM as well, I can believe she didn't get any PM, since I didn't.

In which case it seems to me that you're fighting between two villagers.

[st.cronin]

Chief, Barkeep has been pinging my radar a bit as well.

[st.cronin]

Izulde, if you didn't send in a pm, you should've been in the Great Hall. I was in the Great Hall. I got a result.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Izulde, if you didn't send in a pm, you should've been in the Great Hall. I was in the Great Hall. I got a result.

You apparently had information worth getting then... I didn't.

See Alan T's post above.

[hoopsguy]

On the Barkeep front, he has also been closer to the vest with what happened last night. He was one of the people who came out latest in the day with what room he was in, despite numerous earlier posts.

I've told myself that I'm scrutinizing him more closely because of the vote on me, which coupled with his response to my question, as more intellectually lazy than his normal play. Guess it is interesting for me to read that his behavior is attracting attention from others as well.

[hoopsguy]

Izulde, if you feel like you are headed towards a wrongful lynch, I would encourage you to make an active pass of your items rather than letting it be randomly assigned to someone who has voted for you.

[Izulde]

Well, since I know I'm a villager and I'm willing to bet, based on what happened with LSG, that she's a villager as well, might as well get the ball rolling on someone a lot of people feel suspicious about.

VOTE BARKEEP

FWIW, I don't have anything concrete to offer... I'm still sorting out the earlier pages. But I do think we need to get the ball rolling on somebody else who has a lot better chance of being a wolf than LSG or I.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Izulde

You apparently had information worth getting then... I didn't.

See Alan T's post above.

Right. I'm just saying, you not sending in a pm is not a cause of you not getting a pm. You can't explain it that way, without contradicting Alan.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I was asked clarification on this, and don't like game mechanics being the subject of the game.

Its possible that people might not get PMs at night if there is nothing to report to them.

As mentioned in the rules, anyone who does not send in a room PM, should assume they spent the night in the great hall.

This should speak nothing on the guilt or innocence of anyone or anything people have said, just trying to clear up the game mechanic for missed actions.

Back to square one.

UNVOTE LSG

Sorry, LSG and Izulde.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Izulde, if you feel like you are headed towards a wrongful lynch, I would encourage you to make an active pass of your items rather than letting it be randomly assigned to someone who has voted for you.

Good idea.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Right. I'm just saying, you not sending in a pm is not a cause of you not getting a pm. You can't explain it that way, without contradicting Alan.

Not necessarily. I assumed that because I didn't send in a PM, I didn't get any information and I was writing a post to that effect when Alan T posted his clarification post.

After I saw his post upon it refreshing, my assumption was proven wrong.

[hoopsguy]

In terms of the vote leaders, I think there is a better chance that LSG is a bad guy than Izulde. Going by instinct more than any real evidence, but it seems like LoneStarGirl had an opportunity to help Izulde earlier in the day when a bandwagon started on him. Given their similar info, that was something that I would expect a fellow villager to offer up. And if we are deciding between two wolves today - pretty darn unlikely - then I'm not worried about where my vote ends up since the result will be good.

[hoopsguy]

If people wanted to go another direction, the people I'm looking at a little more closely than normal on Day 2 are Barkeep (stated above) and Path. I felt like he was laying groundwork for Lathum on Day 1 (while defending me, to some extent) and he came out firing on Izulde today. If you believe that Izulde is a good guy, then it would make sense for the wolves to take his earlier post and paint him as a patsy.

Nothing terribly concrete on either of these guys, but with the lack of actionable info so far I'm trying to work on my instincts. Guess I'll know in a couple of days how that is working out for me ...

[Chief Rum]

Well, I don't feel great about this vote, but I don't feel too strongly about anyone right now. So I'm going with the gut, and we'll see where it takes me.

VOTE BARKEEP

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

If people wanted to go another direction, the people I'm looking at a little more closely than normal on Day 2 are Barkeep (stated above) and Path. I felt like he was laying groundwork for Lathum on Day 1 (while defending me, to some extent) and he came out firing on Izulde today. If you believe that Izulde is a good guy, then it would make sense for the wolves to take his earlier post and paint him as a patsy.

Nothing terribly concrete on either of these guys, but with the lack of actionable info so far I'm trying to work on my instincts. Guess I'll know in a couple of days how that is working out for me ...

Long as we're throwing out candidates, Lathum's driveby voting on you was suspicious to me. And Render has been too UTR.

[Poli]

Hmmm.

[st.cronin]

I'm still not 100% convinced that Izulde and LSG are working with the same (non) event.

[st.cronin]

I'm out for the night. Good luck.

[LoneStarGirl]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Both this and Izulde's story don't fly with me. There is no "room" for everyone. We're tarpped in a great hall with three rooms off to the side. Either you sleep in one of the three rooms, or you sleep in the great hall, which, according to the rules, is the default. So there shouldn't be any missing PMs from not having sent in a location to spend the night.

I am undecided at this point if I will vote for LSG or Izulde, but that's where I am leaning right now.

I dont understand why everybody is having such a problem with this... I can't vouch for Izulde but I DID NOT specify to Alant where I wanted to sleep last night. I forgot. So I dont know where I slept. I received no PM from Alant besides the initial name and ingredient pm. If I had to guess I would assume Izulde had the same thing happen to him.

[LoneStarGirl]

unvote izulde

I think we are both stupid villagers who forgot to send a pm last night

anybody have a vote count?

[LoneStarGirl]

I agree that it isn't lathum-like to send a vote out without explaning himself. In the two games I have played with Render he has been UTR so I dont see anything different in what he is doing in this game. I want a meaningful vote, but am leaning towards Lathum... I dont see anything suspicious about Path right now

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, since you and I are the two that are around and neither of us trust the other all that much at the moment ... who do you lean towards trusting at this phase in the game and why?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Well, since I know I'm a villager and I'm willing to bet, based on what happened with LSG, that she's a villager as well, might as well get the ball rolling on someone a lot of people feel suspicious about.

VOTE BARKEEP

FWIW, I don't have anything concrete to offer... I'm still sorting out the earlier pages. But I do think we need to get the ball rolling on somebody else who has a lot better chance of being a wolf than LSG or I.

So go with hoops.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Barkeep, since you and I are the two that are around and neither of us trust the other all that much at the moment ... who do you lean towards trusting at this phase in the game and why?

I can't really say I trust anyone at this point, frankly. I can't figure out any sort of information that would be presented that wouldn't be equally OK for a wolf to present. So all I have are people who I trust less. That would be you, for instance. I see no other reason to antagonize people so I'm not going to state who else is on my not quite as trusted list.

And I do think you've gone in my direction simply because I've voted for you. My actions are very consistent from game to game in this case.

[LoneStarGirl]

So no vote count? What are you good for hoops?

[Barkeep49]

I believe Izulde has 3 and hoops and I each have 2. I believe.

[Poli]

I'm not solid on Izulde, that's for sure.

[Poli]

Problem is, I kinda trust hoops with the exchange we had earlier, I'm iffy on barkeep, but not to the point where I would put my vote on him.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Problem is, I kinda trust hoops with the exchange we had earlier, I'm iffy on barkeep, but not to the point where I would put my vote on him.

What makes you iffy on me? I'd be happy to try and clear up any misconceptions. If it's just been my aggressive play, well I can't do much about that.

[Poli]

I don't know what it is BK. Just get a different game vibe from you so far than I'm used to. That in itself isn't enough to concern me. You're a better player than to change your style based on which side you're on.

[Poli]

Meh, iffy. Know what I mean?

[hoopsguy]

I'll put together a vote count.

BK, I obviously don't like your vote today or your observations on the game so far. There is a good amount of uncertainty at this stage in the game, but at some point you make an attempt to cut through it rather than comment on how everything cuts both ways. In terms of judging my play, I would encourage you to factor past experience in our mutual games to help with the decision. If you still think you are on the right path, then I guess you'll have to revisit your assumptions at some point.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

So go with hoops.

hoops to me has more of a villager feel to his play and has the greater chance of developing a circle of trust at this point.

You, on the other hand, by your own admission trusts no one, which makes you something of a lone wolf here.

[hoopsguy]

I thought I had cast my vote on LSG earlier but further review shows that I did not. My is current as of Post #337, plus my VOTE LONESTARGIRL

Izulde - Path (219), AE (251), Pass (269), Swaggs (302)
Hoops - Barkeep (213), Lathum (254)
Barkeep - Izulde (311), Barkeep (318)
LSG - RendeR (268), Hoops (338? - can't edit, but after 337)
Path - NTN (278)
Rum - Cronin (286)

[LoneStarGirl]

I think that right now my COT really is just Izulde because we had the same experience last night and I find it highly unlikely that a wolf does nothing or forgets to put a pm to Alant

It looks like it will be down to Hoops and Barkeep tonight but we still have 30+ minutes to vote

[Barkeep49]

I don't think I've ever said I trust no one as a wolf. Remember it's easy for wolves to know who to trust because they know who is a villager.

[LoneStarGirl]

I dont think Barkeep voted for Barkeep ... and I dont want Izulde to go down so I am going to help as much as I can and hope Cronin, NTN and Render change their vote

vote hoopsguy

[hoopsguy]

Correct, it is Rum voting for Barkeep in #318.

[hoopsguy]

I'll leave my vote where it is - if the wolves want to take a shot at swinging the vote at me at deadline, so be it. I don't have a key role and I'll send in an order to pass my item. But I agree with LSG that Izulde is less likely to be bad than LSG. And push comes to shove, I distrust her more than Barkeep at the moment.

[LoneStarGirl]

You distrust me why?

[RendeR]

UNVOTE LSG

VOTE BARKEEP

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

You distrust me why?

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

In terms of the vote leaders, I think there is a better chance that LSG is a bad guy than Izulde. Going by instinct more than any real evidence, but it seems like LoneStarGirl had an opportunity to help Izulde earlier in the day when a bandwagon started on him. Given their similar info, that was something that I would expect a fellow villager to offer up. And if we are deciding between two wolves today - pretty darn unlikely - then I'm not worried about where my vote ends up since the result will be good.

Posted earlier. On a day without compelling evidence, your multiple posts earlier ignoring the run on Izulde stand out. Particularly when you are now tying your cart to him in terms of the "no PM".

[RendeR]

My reasons for voting LSG weren't strong enough to hold it that way and other have made some small case for BK so I went there instead.

[RendeR]

DING!

[Poli]

Originally Posted by RendeR

My reasons for voting LSG weren't strong enough to hold it that way and other have made some small case for BK so I went there instead.

Getcha popcorn ready. Deadline voting.

[LoneStarGirl]

I just don't see wolves missing a night action... And I said I didn't receive a pm long before alant confirmed that some people won't get night pms if nothing happened to you at night.