Werewolf XVII: Return of the Wolves

[Passacaglia]

You guys ever play Worms? A friend of mine had this thing where all hiw worms would have a voice like James Brown. Whenever one of his worms died, the worm would say, "I'm dead!"

"I'm dead!"

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Exactly. The positives he can offer (if he is the herbalist) at this point are negligible, so we'll say zero. The odds of this, we'll say, are 70% (VERY generous, I think).

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

What the hell don't you get? If you managed to keep yourself alive for just a couple days you become EXTREMELY valuable!!!

edit: Assuming you're telling the truth, of course. (which I don't think you are)

Pass mentioned this, but i find it odd to hear him say the role is now useless and its super important...

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Pass mentioned this, but i find it odd to hear him say the role is now useless and its super important...

It's important if you don't ruin it on the first day from a lazy, unthoughtful play.

[Barkeep49]

The most suspensful time of the day for me is always between the end of voting and the results. At least Blade is give us something interesting to read in the interim.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

It's important if you don't ruin it on the first day from a lazy, unthoughtful play.

fair enough...just making comments, not trying to attack you(even if most are about you)...no worries

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

My quick thoughts: No matter what happens, I think we need the seer to check out RPI tonight. UNLESS Neon states that the seer cannot detect the Cunning Wolf.

Check me out if you want, but I'd rather see the seer look at someone who actually has a chance of being a wolf.

I have a shortlist right now (4-5 people) that I think contains a couple of wolves, but don't think it'd do a heck of a lot of good to reveal that list and exactly why I feel the way I do, right now.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

The most suspensful time of the day for me is always between the end of voting and the results. At least Blade is give us something interesting to read in the interim.

I agree, especially on the game where the role of overnight kills was not revealed (so lynching was ever so important).

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by McSweeny

well let's see

if pass is a werewolf, lynching him is a great thing

if he is the herbalist he's now pretty much useless and will be picked off by the wolves pretty quickly

if he's a villager just trying to save himself... well i'm not sure what to think about that possibility


anyway, it seems lynching him at this point wouldn't be such a terrible thing

While i was reading, numerous posts by this fellow seemed odd...i dont really want to re-read the first 5 pages again to get them all, but he just seemed to always be getting someone else lynched...it wasnt soo much a matter of facts, but who had the momentum against them at the time...he supported whatever the popular idea was at the time, cast the deciding vote against pass(though it could have been self-preservation), and just generally seemed to be kill happy...not much insight, but a lot of instigating

[McSweeny]

well to be fair the vote for Pass was to keep myself alive for at least another day

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Fair enough - I wasn't willing to assume that a villager would value self-preservation above team success. But you are correct in indicating that this may not be a universal set of ethics.

One more question: do people generally think we are better off without Passacaglia at this point even if he is the herbalist? The herbalist is a significant weapon against the wolves. Like or hate his play up to this point, if he is in fact the herbalist then he does have the ability to protect tonight if we don't lynch him. And repeat every night that he stays alive.

Another way of asking the same question - are people optimistic about our chances of rooting out three wolves without a herbalist and with three sets of lovers dying in tandem?

Finally, why do I have the feeling that I'm walking down the same path I did defending the wolf digamma a few games back (was that Village of the Damned?) and having to defend myself like crazy for the rest of the game?

If the group is satisfied with this course of action, and feels like the above points are not applicable/salient/whatever then I'll join in the bandwagon. AE is certainly not my leading suspect at this point.

Another suspicious but subtle post by hoops...he starts by saying hes a villager working for the team(in more words), then he discusses if its really bad at all to kill the herbalist, but the final part is the kicker...he says he will switch to pass and is worried hes defending a wolf....if pass is bad, hoops could be someone to look at closely

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

cast the deciding vote against pass(though it could have been self-preservation)

Originally Posted by McSweeny

well to be fair the vote for Pass was to keep myself alive for at least another day

....noted that, but im glad you felt it important to repeat that point

[McSweeny]

hahaha

i was just confirming your speculation

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

For the record, when the lynch happens, I'd like someone to make a note that RPI-Fan was by far the most against me.

while rereading this i got a really bad thought in my head...if pass comes up as villager(possible), pass might have been the decieving wolf and looks to clear a fellow wolf as he dies...at the time of the post, pass was up like 4 votes on anyone else...

sorry rpi, but since he was attacking you your the center of a lot of these thoughts

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by McSweeny

i pretty much agree with this

Another one i came across, it was in regards to the seer looking at RPI tonight regardless of what happens...another situation of mc trying to put attention on anyone but him

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by McSweeny

the thing is, Pass can protect himself tonight. The wolves will figure that's what he'll do and they'll pick someone else off. After that, Pass has to protect someone else and the wolves will take him out then.

in other words, pass as a herbalist is really of no value to us

DOLA, another

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm guessing that if Pass is hung as the herbalist that the seer will not need to intervene to hang RPI, but might consider exerting influence to save him if it turns out he is a villager.

I think I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself on some of these "what if" scenarios. But I don't have the luxury of posting them tonight because I'm out of the mix for the next 24-30 hours. So I'm trying to put out my thoughts now and hope to come back to a good situation Thursday night.

Hoops again subtly(spelling?) looking to out a key villager role

[SirFozzie]

That's why I said no matter what, Blade, whoever the seer is has to check RPI tonight.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

while rereading this i got a really bad thought in my head...if pass comes up as villager(possible), pass might have been the decieving wolf and looks to clear a fellow wolf as he dies...at the time of the post, pass was up like 4 votes on anyone else...

sorry rpi, but since he was attacking you your the center of a lot of these thoughts

That's fine. That's why immediately after that post I screamed wolf, because his game has been so obvious the whole time.

(I realize that this looks like a wolf play, setting myself up to claim he's the cunning villager). This shouldn't be an issue, though, because as Pass mentioned he's either the herbalist or the wolf, not a regular villager.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by McSweeny

well i just read through all the posts after pass claimed to be the herbalist. I'm starting to agree that RPI did come on waaay to strong. Notice the post where i just tossed out the various scenarios. Everyone seemed to be discussing what to do and RPI jumps on my post and starts hollering "Lynch him! Lynch him!"

so now that i've rationalized it a bit:

UNVOTE PASSACAGLIA

VOTE RPI-FAN

Immediatly after momentum shifted to rpi and people started to vote for him

[McSweeny]

so does this mean that i'm a wolf, after self preservation, or just playing a brilliant game

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Well, I did tend to believe Pass with his first reveal, although painting a scenario where he is a wolf, and a brilliant one at that here:



Why would Pass even present that argument? Its something I've NEVER done when I've been on the block, I always deny, deny, deny. I never admit to seeing where the other camp is coming from, but that is exactly what Pass did here, and he even admitted the herbalist is a mild target.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I firmly believe that RPI is innocent. There is no way a wolf would push this hard on day one. There is no point to it. If Pass is innocent RPI is pretty well dead, and if RPI was a wolf he would know if Pass was a wolf or not. I can't even think of a way where RPI is a wolf, although.....

McSweeny has been very fishy, jumping his vote all around and changing his mind. Appears he tried to jump on RPI's side and then when RPI's side became the losing side he switched his vote to him. Mcsweeny has been acting crazy today and my vote isn't going to be changed.

Originally Posted by dubb93

Wrong, there is just as good of a chance that both are innocent than there are that 1 is the wolf. If Pass turns out to be the herbalist then RPI is innocent. He's a vetern, and wouldn't be stupid enough to push this hard to lynch an "outted" herbalist on day 1 if he were a wolf. Your thought process has been all over today, passing blame from person to person depending on the bandwagon.

So far i like dubbs analysis...he seems to be on the same track as i am...

[SirFozzie]

anyone in favor of lynching Neon Chaos?

[Barkeep49]

So as I read the rules we don't find out info for the nightime kill. Is that correct? If so I'm feeling a little better about Pass. If he comes up, as I suspect, as the herbalist, I think we'll have some excellent information that we wouldn't necessarily have had if he was a night time kill.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by McSweeny

so does this mean that i'm a wolf, after self preservation, or just playing a brilliant game

I have no idea, and barring a seer reveal on you i wont until you die or game is over...im just throwing out tons of little thoughts for discussion...so far its just been people defending my thoughts...im just sharing my thoughts for the good of the group

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

anyone in favor of lynching Neon Chaos?

he died last night, fyi...i understand the joke, but the wolves killed him night 0 according to him

[Blade6119]

AND IM DONE WITH MY THOUGHTS FOR NOW....so ya...

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I have no idea, and barring a seer reveal on you i wont until you die or game is over...im just throwing out tons of little thoughts for discussion...so far its just been people defending my thoughts...im just sharing my thoughts for the good of the group

Blade, the last time you shared your thoughts with the group, you were a known vampire, doing it at my order so I could hide as the Master Vampire.

Are you sure you want to bring up those memories for everyone?

(Just teasing)

[st.cronin]

If we don't know who the seer is, how do we know what he sees? And what about the witness? These are, like the herbalist, meant to be secret roles? So if somebody says "I am the seer and I saw such and such..." we don't actually know that he is the seer, do we?

I feel so confuzzled.

[Poli]

Seems like we may have the most interesting discussion on the first day(s) since I started playing.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Blade, the last time you shared your thoughts with the group, you were a known vampire, doing it at my order so I could hide as the Master Vampire.

Are you sure you want to bring up those memories for everyone?

(Just teasing)

LOL, that was a fun game...we covered your tracks soo well...but at the same time, my thoughts were meant as jokes and i was like "IM A VAMPIRE AND YOU CANT KILL ME!! HAHAHAHAHA"...im not really doing that right now....i dont think

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

If we don't know who the seer is, how do we know what he sees? And what about the witness? These are, like the herbalist, meant to be secret roles? So if somebody says "I am the seer and I saw such and such..." we don't actually know that he is the seer, do we?

I feel so confuzzled.

No we wont, and i hope for our sake we dont find out who it is till late in the game...we wont know whatt the seer sees unless he decides to tell us, but it would be stupid to reveal himself right now

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Seems like we may have the most interesting discussion on the first day(s) since I started playing.

I think its due to the fact we have 3 days before the first lynch, and we started the voting before night zero even happened...

oh, and its the first game since the break

[SirFozzie]

st.cronin: Usually the seer will drop cryptic hints if he detects a wolf early on.. hoping that the villagers will pick up on it, and the wolves won't.

If the #'s are favorable, that revealing a wolf will tip the balance, he may drop all pretense and say "Guys.. this is what I saw on Night 1, Night 2, and last night I viewed X and he is a wolf.." The Wolves WILL get him, but reducing the amount of wolves helps, and you can sometimes track the other wolves by seeing who votes in a block with that wolf.

Normally.. if the "seer" names a villager.. (could always be the cunning wolf, of course), the "seer" knows that the next name for the lynching will be him. So it's subtle at times, and quite blatant others, but usually, if you go blatant, you're in the end stages of a game, and you're going to go either way.

The witness should tell everyone the second he sees a wolf kill.. he only gets to use it once, and if he sees a kill, he's just a normal villager from that point on.. so if he dies before he can tell.. he's become a wasted special villager ability.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Seems like we may have the most interesting discussion on the first day(s) since I started playing.

I agree 100% and was happy how game oriented it was. I think we've laid a good ground work for future success rather than hurt feelings .

Originally Posted by st.cronin

If we don't know who the seer is, how do we know what he sees? And what about the witness? These are, like the herbalist, meant to be secret roles? So if somebody says "I am the seer and I saw such and such..." we don't actually know that he is the seer, do we?

I feel so confuzzled.

That's the whole game. Trying to discern fact from fiction. It's what makes it like virtual crack for some of us since things can turn on the smallest of clues.

[Neon_Chaos]

I have the votes as follows (went through it twice)

Passacaglia - RPI-Fan, Raiders Army, Sir Fozzie, McSweeny
McSweeny - dubb93, Barkeep49, Passacaglia
SirFozzie - SnDvls, st.cronin
RPI-Fan - Mr. Wednesday, Sack Attack
ardent enthusiast - hoopsguy

no votes (I warned you guys twice about the vote format, bold and all caps): Blade6119 (invalid vote format), kingfc22 (invalid vote format), pennywisesb

The vote is in, and you decide to take Passacaglia and bind his arms and legs together. He struggles and starts begging for his life. He pleads to you that he can protect you from the wolves, that he is a herbalist of the highest order. You do not listen. You string him up, tie a noose around his neck and take him to the small village barn. You swing the rope over a ledge and pull. Passacaglia's body is hoisted up in the air, he thrashes for a few moments, before breathing his last.

You quickly search his belongings. There are several books about herbology, and some herbs. Of course, you would not know what one herb did from the other. You realize what you have done, and now fear ever more what will happen tongiht.

Passacaglia was the Herbalist!

It is now Night (1). Send in your night actions, please.

Player List:
SackAttack
st.cronin
kingfc22
Raiders Army
Passacaglia - Herbalist, lynched Day 1.
hoopsguy
RPI-Fan
ardent enthusiast
pennywisesb
SnDvls
McSweeny
Mr. Wednesday
SirFozzie
dubb93
Barkeep49

[Blade6119]

that kinda what i expected after the reading i did post deadline...fun...

[st.cronin]

pffffffffft

[SirFozzie]

Well, fuck..

Ok.. RPI.. you do know what this means, right?

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Well, fuck..

Ok.. RPI.. you do know what this means, right?

Kill me if you want. Passacaglia made a play screaming wolf, so as a villager our best play was to go get him.

You can come get me blindly if you want, but it's not going to do us any good. I think the wolves know I do have a pretty good read on them anyways, so I doubt I'll make it through the nite.

[Neon_Chaos]

Last night, you heard screams.... screams of terror.

You wake up, and look around. Noone is missing. You're not sure if that is a good thing, or a bad thing.

What you are sure of, however, is that you must lynch someone today.

It is now Day (2), votes are due at 8 PM EST.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

You can come get me blindly if you want, but it's not going to do us any good. I think the wolves know I do have a pretty good read on them anyways, so I doubt I'll make it through the nite.

If you have a good read on them and are think you are going to die tonight why don't you share your insights with the group.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Last night, you heard screams.... screams of terror.

You wake up, and look around. Noone is missing. You're not sure if that is a good thing, or a bad thing.

What you are sure of, however, is that you must lynch someone today.

It is now Day (2), votes are due at 8 PM EST.

It appears we have another wolf among us. My guess is the cursed was hit.

[McSweeny]

could have been the Blessed

[st.cronin]

Well, I may as well reveal myself. I saw SnDvls turn into a wolf. I used my one-time witness ability last night, and that is what I saw. I assume we should lynch him today ... can't see the point in lynching anybody else.

VOTE SNDVLS

[JonInMiddleGA]

One of these days I'm gonna play in one of these things instead of kibbutzing ... and that ought to be a downright fascinating experience all the way 'round

[SirFozzie]

Well now..we're starting early now with it, aren't we..

Interesting..

apparently st.cronin is taking my advice, or he's trying to poison the witness well.

[SirFozzie]

I don't see how it would help a newbie to play the witness card when we had a custom made target in RPI...

So, unless I hear differently..

VOTE SNDVLS

[RPI-Fan]

SnDvls was someone I thought was a wolf (which was obviously wrong, as he would have been thinking he was a villager all today), but it's good enough for me, certainly.

VOTE SNDVLS

[Blade6119]

Since hes sooo new and you told him too, im inclined to believe him....either that or the rook plays a good rook...odd though is that usually the witness sees one of the attackers, not the victim...but neon does like to switch things up...either way

VOTE SNDVLS

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Well now..we're starting early now with it, aren't we..

Interesting..

apparently st.cronin is taking my advice, or he's trying to poison the witness well.

I used my one-time look on the first night, figuring I should use it before getting either eaten or lynched. Since I no longer have the ability, I assume I should just come out and say I saw such and such.

Really, the only question I have is does it make any sense to lynch anybody other than SnDvls.