Werewolf XXXVI: Resident Evil (S.T.A.R.S. Wins! Post #1424)

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Exactly why I placed an early vote. If you miss day 1 or even forget to vote, people will lynch you. I like it as it encourages participation early in the game, even if we are wrong.

While I voted for st.cronin as a revenge type vote, I think its interesting how fast bullet piled up the votes.

Maybe its because I was here all day and you wern't, but to me it took forever for Bullet to get a second vote. It was actually interesting to me to see how fast the momentum on St.cronin all of the sudden sped up in the afternoon. Then suddenly out of nowhere bullet got 4 votes to go into the lead followed by Cronin getting back to back, then bullet getting 3 in a row.

To me its been kind of like watching a pendulum swing all day and I've been sitting here trying to figure out what to make of it.

For those curious what I mean, this is the day's vote pattern so far:


(112) Lathum votes Hoopsguy (1)
(120) Fouts votes St.cronin (1)
(125) st.cronin votes hoopsguy (2)
(180) Alan votes Bulletsponge (1)
(184) Ntndeacon votes fouts (1)
(190) Kwhit votes BrianD (1)
(235) Anxiety votes St.Cronin (2)
(246) Lathum UNVOTES Hoopsguy (1) ***
(246) Lathum votes St.cronin (3)
(253) Hoopsguy votes Bulletsponge (2)
(257) spleen votes bulletsponge (3)
(273) Tyrith votes Bulletsponge (4)
(276) Sndvls votes Bulletsponge (5)
(278) Kwhit UNVOTES BrianD (0) ***
(278) Kwhit votes Stcronin (4)
(279) Path votes Stcronin (5)
(281) BrianD votes Bulletsponge (6)
(283) Saldana votes Bulletsponge (7)
(286) Mr. Wednesday votes Bulletsponge (8)
(290) Lonestargirl votes St.cronin (6)

[Alan T]

While post number isn't always an accurate measure of time, it can at least give you the idea above on how there has been clumps of voters for both Bullet and cronin today

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

The people in the middle are the moderately experienced players who I've been around/read in the past. Except for Brian, he's a total wildcard for me. So I suppose I should add Glen to my lynch group, but his performance in Tombstone impressed me some.

Hey so you are a fan of the way I drew the suspicion from pretty much every quarter except the wolves, who figured I was harmlessly spinning my wheels, and got myself thrown in jail. Cool. I'm actually hoping to do better this game, and possibly not be so ...err...manic. Anyway enough about Cowboys, we need to head shot some zombies.

[Alan T]

I find it very suspicious that none of you posted in the last hour. I think all of you are bad!

[hoopsguy]

And now that the board is back I'm probably out until deadline. Perfect.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

And now that the board is back I'm probably out until deadline. Perfect.

time to orchestrate the crazy vote shift to hoops. Go!

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Alan T

... but what I am trying to champion is perhaps this game we should change things a bit and not vote for someone who is a valid contributer on day 1 and give them a bit more rope to either free themselves or hang themselves.
...

I'm liking this line of thought here. I've been fairly uncomfortable with the Day one options I've experienced or even seen in the WW games I've gone back and read. Day one sucks.

[Glengoyne]

Vote Bullet

It's frankly all we have to go on.

[Glengoyne]

As I've done that now. I'm wondering if simply voting for the guy who hasn't shown up is almost as bad as not having a lynch. I mean what does it mean that everyone voted for Bullet? He didn't show up. I don't think we're going to learn anything with this lynch except for Bullet's alignment.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Alan T

While post number isn't always an accurate measure of time, it can at least give you the idea above on how there has been clumps of voters for both Bullet and cronin today

My vote is seperated by an hour and a half.

[Glengoyne]

Are you guys there?

Why does it always seem like I'm talking to myself when I play WW?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

Are you guys there?

Why does it always seem like I'm talking to myself when I play WW?

The first step to curing your problem is admitting you have a problem

[Chief Rum]

Vote Lathum

Why? Well, I'm still bitter about Tombstone.

Seriously, this one is decided, and I don't have enough time before deadline to analyze why st cronin and bullet have attracted this much attention.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Vote Lathum

Why? Well, I'm still bitter about Tombstone.

Seriously, this one is decided, and I don't have enough time before deadline to analyze why st cronin and bullet have attracted this much attention.

You have 2 hours. Deadline is 11pm esT. so knock yourself out.

[Fouts]

Geez, I guess the board is breaking down. We should lynch whoever is responsible!

Still 2 more hours for the lynch candidates to persuade the jury.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by path12

But by that logic Lathum should be your vote, right? I'm trying to figure out where you're going here and the best I can come up with is that you're hypothizing that Lathum is the police chief and voted first for someone not on his list -- but that's a really bold play for day 1 IMO.

Yes, this is what I was thinking.

unvote hoopsguy

vote Bulletsponge

It really is amazing to me how every game the players who try to encourage strategic play get lynched.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

It really is amazing to me how every game the players who try to encourage strategic play get lynched.

Tell everyone you can't be night killed and you are a sure lynch victim. This game is wacky sometimes.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

You have 2 hours. Deadline is 11pm esT. so knock yourself out.

Heh, heh, shoot, your'e right. I forgot.

UNVOTE LATHUM

For now...

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Yes, this is what I was thinking.

unvote hoopsguy

vote Bulletsponge

It really is amazing to me how every game the players who try to encourage strategic play get lynched.

I didn't vote for you, but to be the devil's advocate, I stated my case on why your move didn't make much sense to me and as far as I saw I don't think I ever got back a response that made complete sense to me.

For me I feel I have been giving you a very large amount of latitude though since its day 1. If I were to vote for you today it wouldnt be because you tried to encourage strategic play, its because you were inconsistant between your theory and your move.

[Alan T]

What a very uneventful night 1!

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Alan T

What a very uneventful night 1!

I have problem. You said it.

I'm biting my tongue.

[hoopsguy]

Glen, I'm around for awhile if you are looking to carry on an in-game chat. The dynamics might be a little different than last time we went down this path ...

[Glengoyne]

What I'm thinking is that my original position about this vote not helping may be wrong. We do have the shifts and spurts that the votes appeared. Perhaps we have a bunch of people communicating behind the scenes moving the vote off of their guy? Maybe that is where everyone is now. PMing each other rather than posting? The dynamic of so many players aware of each other should be interesting.

[Alan T]

Well Im not sure how much this vote will or will not help us. Of course to argue, if you have 2 STARs in a vote off, it wont tell you anything either.

I think I learned some about how people approached this vote during the day though. Thats something

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Glen, I'm around for awhile if you are looking to carry on an in-game chat. The dynamics might be a little different than last time we went down this path ...

Well I certainly wouldn't want to get you lynched or end up one vote shy myself either, so a new dynamic sounds good. I'm probably out until after the deadline now though. I've got to get a bite and get home. I'll be game if you're up late we can look at the votes, and see what there is to see.

[hoopsguy]

I think I'll be in and out up to the deadline tonight, but I'm not sure how much there is to add at this point. Votes seem to be in, Bullet doesn't seem to be showing, and we'll see how the game plays out from there.

[Chubby]

About 40 minutes to go til lynch.

[Fouts]

With 2 of the teams being able to communicate, what are the chances that bullet is on one of them?

[Fouts]

Meaning... wouldn't they move to protect him?

[Alan T]

Would you risk outing your entire team on day 1 for a teammate who hasnt even shown up yet?

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Would you risk outing your entire team on day 1 for a teammate who hasnt even shown up yet?

Not at all. I meant during that wild vote swing we had earlier. I'm trying to figure out what emphasis to put on it.

[path12]

Wow, out for four hours and only about a page to catch up on. But I guess with bullet not showing up it's made it a fairly easy choice and it's just a matter now of seeing who he belonged to.

[hoopsguy]

On that point - the vote swings took place earlier in the day, when we really didn't know if Bullet was going to show up or not.

[Fouts]

And the WS game is postponed until tomorrow. Bummer.

[Fouts]

Someone mentioned Lucky having a factor in this vote. I don't think it will until tomorrow at the earliest.

*Lucky - Day vote counts double as long as the player voted for a member of an opposing faction the previous day.

[path12]

Frankly, I don't see the huge swings. What I saw was a major meta-game move -- it's as if we as a community of players decided to stay away from the typical day 1 argument and deliberately make it a two person race -- which the continued absence of bullet decided early. The more I think about it, the whole thing probably helps the zombies and umbrella more than anyone else since it will mask voting to a certain extent.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Someone mentioned Lucky having a factor in this vote. I don't think it will until tomorrow at the earliest.

I was the one who brought up the lucky stuff and I said it would likely not be in effect till tommorrow. Unless you are talking about someone else

[Mr. Wednesday]

I just want to state, for the record, that my vote was in no way influenced by out-of-thread communication (if, as may be the case, it appears to fall in the middle of a blot of votes). My reasoning was my own, influenced by the in-thread discussion.

[hoopsguy]

Why do you think it helps the zombies and umbrella at this point? That argument only really makes sense to me if there are two STARS in the dispute. Then both sides can dump votes wherever it is convenient to do so.

But if this is not the case, I would expect some effort to try and keep their man alive. I would be very surprised to see more than one early vote on a teammate, in the event that Bullet is revealed as a non-STAR.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by path12

it's as if we as a community of players decided to stay away from the typical day 1 argument and deliberately make it a two person race

Maybe it's that I've been out of games for a while (until I got back in with Barkeep's game), but I don't remember there being a strong trend in this direction. Usually, things seemed to revolve around:
* a few people being relatively random
* occasional overanalysis of a chance comment that almost never actually accomplished anything
* a critical mass developing on one person and driving the voting, typically turning things into a two- or three-horse race as the one on the block tries to swing things to someone else.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I was the one who brought up the lucky stuff and I said it would likely not be in effect till tommorrow. Unless you are talking about someone else

Ok. I didn't look back, it just hit me as I was reviewing the rules.

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Why do you think it helps the zombies and umbrella at this point? That argument only really makes sense to me if there are two STARS in the dispute. Then both sides can dump votes wherever it is convenient to do so.

But if this is not the case, I would expect some effort to try and keep their man alive. I would be very surprised to see more than one early vote on a teammate, in the event that Bullet is revealed as a non-STAR.

I think that's kind of where I'm going -- the lack of real defense on either side makes me afraid we've got two stars in here.

[Chief Rum]

No post up until this point is a bad move when you're on the verge of a lynching. Sorry bullet.

VOTE BULLETSPONGE

[path12]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Maybe it's that I've been out of games for a while (until I got back in with Barkeep's game), but I don't remember there being a strong trend in this direction. Usually, things seemed to revolve around:
* a few people being relatively random
* occasional overanalysis of a chance comment that almost never actually accomplished anything
* a critical mass developing on one person and driving the voting, typically turning things into a two- or three-horse race as the one on the block tries to swing things to someone else.

I think it's been a fairly recent thing, or maybe it's just my imagination, but it seems to me that there has been more instances in say the last four-five games where two people jump on one point of an initial post, start to argue about it and end up on the block. RealDeal getting lynched for saying he couldn't be night killed, things like that.

I very well could be misreading it.

[path12]

OK, out until after lynch. I need to go clean and prep my future den for painting.

[hoopsguy]

Earlier in the game Alan noted that people were giving up their allegiance too early in the game if they are STARS and expected that there were some fake reveals taking place. I ran through the initial posts of all 18 people who checked in today - everyone was in by 11AM EST. Nice to see that kind of participation.

In that group there was not one person who came out and claimed STARS. I was pretty public in doing so when I was getting tossed around as an early candidate, but I did not see this as some kind of epidemic condition where the majority of people were tipping their hand.

Over the course of today's posts I started putting together some ideas about what people might be doing in the game, but they represent nothing more than guesses at this point ... anyways, I did not find this to be as prevalent as was suggested.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Earlier in the game Alan noted that people were giving up their allegiance too early in the game if they are STARS and expected that there were some fake reveals taking place. I ran through the initial posts of all 18 people who checked in today - everyone was in by 11AM EST. Nice to see that kind of participation.

In that group there was not one person who came out and claimed STARS. I was pretty public in doing so when I was getting tossed around as an early candidate, but I did not see this as some kind of epidemic condition where the majority of people were tipping their hand.

Over the course of today's posts I started putting together some ideas about what people might be doing in the game, but they represent nothing more than guesses at this point ... anyways, I did not find this to be as prevalent as was suggested.

I don't think you looked closely. I had 4 - 5 people who came out and said they were stars or strongly hinted it. I said thats how many I had, and didnt say it was an epidemic. I asked out of curiosity why those 4-5 people did that.

Now out of curiosity, why are you misrepresenting what I said?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'm curious to the three or four people who said you were stars or hinted it, what was your reasoning for doing so rather than hiding in the shadows with the majority.

Just for the record, this is what I said.. don't think I made this out to be an epidemic... You seem to be blowing this up a bit more than it was

[Chubby]

time check

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I have not gone through each of the posts, but I did note the first post for each person, which is the one that usually reads "villager checking in".

There was not a single one of those 18 that indicated faction. I'll list the post numbers if you want to get down to brass tacks on this point.

If the point was that later in the game people were identifying faction, then I will have to re-read a couple of hundred posts instead of the 50 or so it took to put this list together.

Conceptually, I agree that it is not necessarily the best option for everyone to reveal faction on Day #1.

In terms of why I reacted to it, perhaps it was the next line that followed the part you quoted just now.

My initial instinct in this game was the people who came out and said they were Stars members psychologically had a greater chance of being Umbrella members than anything else.

As one of the people who revealed as STARS, this caught my attention. As did the "look like you are candidate #1" post this morning. Basically, I have entered Alan T paranoia mode; I guess you can decide whether or not it is worth arguing if it is justified.