NFL Week 14 Thread

[k0ruptr]

Depends which Baltimore shows up

[Buccaneer]

Just simply unbelievable and amazing. Household have been going crazy.

[k0ruptr]

Shoulda gone for the kill in the 4th

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Wow, all the focus was on Tebow time - I just noticed the 49ers lost to the Cardinals..wow

The Packers now just need to beat a terrible KC team next week to lock up everything. Greg Jennings got hurt. Hopefully it's something that only takes a couple weeks to recover, they won't need him for another month.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

The ultimate battle of Good versus Evil!

Tebow has God on his side and Brady has Satan!

A battle for the ages!!!!!!!!

Knock it off.

[Rizon]

Tebow will unite the nation. I called it here first.

[Matthean]

Sources -- Denver Broncos closer to committing to Tim Tebow for 2012 - ESPN

Denver is even now saying if Tebow shows improvement and gets into the playoffs they won't draft a 1st round QB in next year's draft. If they don't make the playoffs, I'm not sure they would be in the position to get one of the QBs worth getting.

[Groundhog]

So should the Broncos bench Tebow for the first 3 quarters of every game?

[k0ruptr]

Tebow for president?

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

The ultimate battle of Good versus Evil!

Tebow has God on his side and Brady has Satan!

A battle for the ages!!!!!!!!

We already had that battle. Evil, in its most pure mortal form of Ndamukong Suh punished the Tebus for 3+ hours before he submitted.

[Drake]

Maybe Denver needs to approach Tebow like a Mariano Rivera. Have a starting QB for the first 3 quarters, then bring in Tebow to close the game.

[k0ruptr]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

So should the Broncos bench Tebow for the first 3 quarters of every game?

Brady Quinn... not the greatest idea.

[Groundhog]

Can he really throw the ball much worse than Tebow does for the first 3 quarters of most games?

[k0ruptr]

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Knock it off.

Don't get your panties in a wad.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Can he really throw the ball much worse than Tebow does for the first 3 quarters of most games?

yes. Tebow helps his team by not putting them in bad positions. Brady will be taking sacks and throwing picks. even Tebow wont be able to bring them back from the hole he digs... well maybe he can

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by bronconick

We already had that battle. Evil, in its most pure mortal form of Ndamukong Suh...

Knock it off.

[SirFozzie]

'Broncos games are as predictable as 80's Hogan matches. :P

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

'Broncos games are as predictable as 80's Hogan matches. :P

When does Tebow come out to "Real American?"

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Knock it off.

Seriously. Bucc has already proven that Philadelphia is the ultimate evil.

[k0ruptr]

after seeing Orlovsky and Grossman tear up the Pats, Tebow might throw for 300 in the 4th next week.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

after seeing Orlovsky and Grossman tear up the Pats, Tebow might throw for 300 in the 4th next week.

Knock it off









(he will throw for 450)

[Lathum]

OK Giants, season on the line tonight

[Suicane75]

Yes yes, lets go Giants. The road to an Eagles division title begins with a New York win.

Also, Tebow was friggin awesome throwing to wide open receivers for a quarter. {ducks}

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I dont know that its all hatred. Just cant explain what is going on.

I mean once again he was 3/16 in the first 3 quarters and looked like complete dogshit. It just doesnt make sense to some people on how a player can look as awful as he does and flip a switch under the toughest of situations.

This is where I have the greatest problem. It isn't as simple as he looked like dogshit in the first three quarters. Did he look poor? Yeah. But he also had, what, 5 dropped passes? All of them that would have been for first downs and kept drives alive. How do you throw that into the equation? He also took a basic play it safe gameplan and had the game in hand before the final 2 minutes if his teammates help him out at all. (a wide open TD pass, a chip shot FG blocked)

At best he was bad, but every QB looks bad once in awhile. He wasn't nearly as horrible as everyone will make it out. But then how do you explain the fourth quarters? It's not the prevent, that's crap. The Bears certainly weren't playing prevent. They stuffed Broncos runs everytime they tried on the final TD drive. Tebow was a different player. His footwork improved and he threw accurate passes.

If it's one fourth quarter, ok, so be it. But we aren't talking one at this point. His QB rating in the fourth quarter going into tonight was over 109 and over 115 in the wins. In the fourth quarter of games this year, he turns into something better than Brady, Rogers or Montana.

How does that work?

[Lathum]

Safety!

[Scoobz0202]

Am I misinterpreting the safety rule? I figured with forward progress he would be down at the one?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by TroyF

This is where I have the greatest problem. It isn't as simple as he looked like dogshit in the first three quarters. Did he look poor? Yeah. But he also had, what, 5 dropped passes? All of them that would have been for first downs and kept drives alive. How do you throw that into the equation? He also took a basic play it safe gameplan and had the game in hand before the final 2 minutes if his teammates help him out at all. (a wide open TD pass, a chip shot FG blocked)

At best he was bad, but every QB looks bad once in awhile. He wasn't nearly as horrible as everyone will make it out. But then how do you explain the fourth quarters? It's not the prevent, that's crap. The Bears certainly weren't playing prevent. They stuffed Broncos runs everytime they tried on the final TD drive. Tebow was a different player. His footwork improved and he threw accurate passes.

If it's one fourth quarter, ok, so be it. But we aren't talking one at this point. His QB rating in the fourth quarter going into tonight was over 109 and over 115 in the wins. In the fourth quarter of games this year, he turns into something better than Brady, Rogers or Montana.

How does that work?

As he gets the credit when they win he gets the credit when the players around him screw up. He was 3/16 going into the 4th quarter which is pathetic. Im not sure how you can even try to spin that. This is the NFL not football for 6 year olds.

Lets just call it what it is. Tebow plays poorly until the 4th quarter most of the time for some reason. His defense keeps the team in the game until the Tebow magic can pull it out late. I dont think we need to pretend hes something special as a quarterback(passing wise). His intangibles are making him into a special player.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

Am I misinterpreting the safety rule? I figured with forward progress he would be down at the one?

He went into the end zone himself by being a complete klutz. He wasnt shoved back into the endzone.

[Scoobz0202]

Yeah but he was never downed then was he?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

Yeah but he was never downed then was he?

The contact made him off balance which led to him being down in the end zone. Down by contact but it was Romo that put himself in the end zone by trying to regain balance.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

Am I misinterpreting the safety rule? I figured with forward progress he would be down at the one?

I had to go back and watch it a few times. I dunno. I think the Giants may have gotten one from the refs there. He was spun around by Pierre-Paul at the 1 yard line and then stumbled and fell into the end zone. If he was deemed tackled by Pierre-Paul, it should be at the 1 I think. If they said he went into the end zone on his own and went to the ground, then play should still be live since he wasn't tackled. So, I don't know what the ruling there was by the refs. Maybe there is a rule for end zones that if you fall down in your own end zone on your own, it's safety weather you're touched or not?

[Lathum]

sigh

Nicks needs to get into the end zone on that long pass

[k0ruptr]

sorry to go back to Tebow but I was just looking at his stats, and it's amazing what his 4th quarters do to his overall stats. 11 tds 2 ints. 500 rushing yards 3 rushing tds, 1250+ passing yards. the 48ish% completion rate is obviously not good, but Overall I'd say his stats are decent.

[PilotMan]

Deadspin headlines crack me up sometime:

Tim Tebow Tebows 59-Yard Tebow To Force Tebowtime

[MizzouRah]

Thank you Vick for ending my fantasy football run.. worst first round pick EVER!

[molson]

Tebow is not a good QB right now but it wouldn't shock me at all if the team stayed hot, or dare I say, go all the way (imagine THAT Super Bowl week).

This kind of reminds of the Patriots' first super bowl run, just a little. The coaches didn't trust Brady and the Weis offense ran a ton of screens, direct to halfback snaps, laterals, and had a running game, and the defense was great. Brady didn't have to do too much, but for whatever reason, the team clicked after he came in. He developed into a great QB after that, but for even a few years later, I remember people reacting with shock when Brady threw long, accurate passes. There was the guy in the Boston media (Ron Borges I think) who kept saying Brady was overrated and all he could do was "throw sideways."

Brady was still better as a 1st-year starter than Tebow has been this year, but at the very least, this will give Tebow time to develop and become something more. And ya, it's true that "they can't win long term like this", but they can win for the rest of the season like this. I still believe in things like leadership and hot streaks, and the Broncos are dangerous because they have both, and its December now.

Edit: Oh, and I'm fired up to be going to the game next week. I'm been planning all year to make the trip down, but it's only in the last two months has the game become high profile. It'll probably be cold as shit too, I'm glad they didn't flex it out to PM.

[PurdueBrad]

If the Steelers end up as the Wild Card (which looks more and more likely) I'm happy to know that we will most likely face Tim Tebow in the first round. If we can't do to him what Detroit did then we have no right to be there.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by molson

Tebow is not a good QB right now but it wouldn't shock me at all if the team stayed hot, or dare I say, go all the way (imagine THAT Super Bowl week).

This kind of reminds of the Patriots' first super bowl run, just a little. The coaches didn't trust Brady and the Weis offense ran a ton of screens, direct to halfback snaps, laterals, and had a running game, and the defense was great. Brady didn't have to do too much, but for whatever reason, the team clicked after he came in. He developed into a great QB after that, but for even a few years later, I remember people reacting with shock when Brady through long, accurate passes. There was the guy in the Boston media (Ron Borges) who kept saying Brady was overrated and all he could do was "throw sideways."

Brady was still better as a 1st-year starter than Tebow has been this year, but at the very least, this will give Tebow time to develop and become something more. And ya, "they can't win long term like this", but they can win for the rest of the season like this. I still believe in things like leadership and hot streaks, and the Broncos are dangerous because they have both, and its December now.

You must be remembering things differently than I. I remember Brady being a damn good QB his rookie year that kept their franchise QB on the pine which eventually led to Bledsoe getting traded.

[JonInMiddleGA]

You can't stop him, you can only hope to contain him for about three quarters.

[molson]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

You must be remembering things differently than I. I remember Brady being a damn good QB his rookie year that kept their franchise QB on the pine which eventually led to Bledsoe getting traded.

He didn't make many mistakes, but he wasn't put in a position to. Almost all of his long gainers were off screens and short passes to his RBs. Weiss had some brilliant schemes that year that nobody could defend. And there were a lot of wins that involved non-Brady craziness - like David Patton throwing, running, and catching a TD in the same game, and, one of my favorite plays ever - a late Patton fumble that would have lost the game being overturned on review because Patton had been knocked unconscious, and was lying halfway out of bounds when one of his legs was grazing the ball in play. No fumble, Pats win. They also won a couple of games when Brady had a Tebow-esque less than 100 yards passing.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

You must be remembering things differently than I. I remember Brady being a damn good QB his rookie year that kept their franchise QB on the pine which eventually led to Bledsoe getting traded.

Truth is somewhere in the middle. He wasn't bad, but he certainly wasn't the Brady we see today. He had 18 TD and 12 INT to go with 9 fumbles. His intangibles and fourth quarter play was huge. And the Patriots defense was dominant against the pass in 2001. He was looked at as a caretaker by the "experts"

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

As he gets the credit when they win he gets the credit when the players around him screw up. He was 3/16 going into the 4th quarter which is pathetic. Im not sure how you can even try to spin that. This is the NFL not football for 6 year olds.

Lets just call it what it is. Tebow plays poorly until the 4th quarter most of the time for some reason. His defense keeps the team in the game until the Tebow magic can pull it out late. I dont think we need to pretend hes something special as a quarterback(passing wise). His intangibles are making him into a special player.

Look, I went back through the Tebow, I mean TIVO and looked at the dropped passes. Through the first three quarters I counted 5 (there were 6 overall for the game) Of those 5 drops, 4 were for first downs and one was a TD pass. We aren't talking tough catch drop either. We are talking right in the hands drops.

Are you really going to tell me those didn't have an impact on not only Tebow's numbers but the Broncos overall output for three quarters? He did a lot of other things bad in the first three quarters. I'm not an expert, but looking at the replay, his footwork in the first three quarters was vastly different than the fourth quarter. That said, this "clutch" "intangible" thing isn't the only story here. Look at the 3rd and 8 in the OT. He hits Thomas on a perfect pass for the first down. If he can do it there, he can do it anytime, right? Or am I wrong? It's ALL intangibles?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Look, I went back through the Tebow, I mean TIVO and looked at the dropped passes. Through the first three quarters I counted 5 (there were 6 overall for the game) Of those 5 drops, 4 were for first downs and one was a TD pass. We aren't talking tough catch drop either. We are talking right in the hands drops.

Are you really going to tell me those didn't have an impact on not only Tebow's numbers but the Broncos overall output for three quarters? He did a lot of other things bad in the first three quarters. I'm not an expert, but looking at the replay, his footwork in the first three quarters was vastly different than the fourth quarter. That said, this "clutch" "intangible" thing isn't the only story here. Look at the 3rd and 8 in the OT. He hits Thomas on a perfect pass for the first down. If he can do it there, he can do it anytime, right? Or am I wrong? It's ALL intangibles?

This is what it is

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2011 QUARTERBACKS

On one hand you want to say Tebow is much more than individual numbers. On the other hand you want to take any blame off of Tebow when things go poorly. Which is it?

Football Outsiders breaks down his individual performance which isnt good.

Id be happy enough just calling it like it is but you are determined to make people believe he is something special as a thrower. Fine, Thomas dropped some passes today but he also saved Tebow in the Miami game with a great catch.

[k0ruptr]

Tebow is Tebow. He turns 4th quarters into wine. Something like that.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

This is what it is

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2011 QUARTERBACKS

On one hand you want to say Tebow is much more than individual numbers. On the other hand you want to take any blame off of Tebow when things go poorly. Which is it?

Football Outsiders breaks down his individual performance which isnt good.

Id be happy enough just calling it like it is but you are determined to make people believe he is something special as a thrower. Fine, Thomas dropped some passes today but he also saved Tebow in the Miami game with a great catch.

When have I made the point he's something special as a thrower? I'm simply asking questions. Let's say 3 of the 5 drops turn into catches and one of those catches is the TD. Suddenly you have 2 more drives that had life which were punts. You have 7 points on the board before the fourth quarter. You still have Tebow at 6/16. I don't think that's exactly special as a passer. On the other hand, 10 to 13 points or so against that Bears defense through three quarters isn't garbage either, is it?

I have plenty of blame for Tebow when things go poorly. I predicted before the game he'd have trouble against the Bears because of his passing. But while his passing was bad, it wasn't horrific. Were there any remarkable catches in the fourth quarters/OT? Thomas made a nice diving grab, but other than that, the balls were placed where they needed to be. (like the Decker pass on the sideline)

Last week he hit Thomas with a perfect pass on a 3rd and 9 with the game on the line. That was dropped as well which led to the game tying FG and the INT from Ponder that cost the Vikings the game. That throw wasn't made against a prevent and the coverage was good on the play. He clearly knows how to throw the ball, he just seems to do it in the fourth quarter. He's never going to be Brady or Brees, but I think there is potential for him to get to the 55 to 57 percent range with a decent WR core and more experience.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

The Packers now just need to beat a terrible KC team next week to lock up everything. Greg Jennings got hurt. Hopefully it's something that only takes a couple weeks to recover, they won't need him for another month.

Reports are that Jennings has an MCL injury and Rodgers/Driver were saying they were hopeful he was back for playoffs. If it is a 4-6 week injury, that possibly puts him back in Week 1 of the playoffs.

I would say they don't go 16-0 now. I think they are far more interested in getting guys rest and trying to reduce the risk of injury. You can't eliminate all injury risk.. there are only 53 players and at an absolute minimum, 22 have to play...

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Reports are that Jennings has an MCL injury and Rodgers/Driver were saying they were hopeful he was back for playoffs. If it is a 4-6 week injury, that possibly puts him back in Week 1 of the playoffs.

I would say they don't go 16-0 now. I think they are far more interested in getting guys rest and trying to reduce the risk of injury. You can't eliminate all injury risk.. there are only 53 players and at an absolute minimum, 22 have to play...

That's somewhat good news on Jennings. They're not going to rest people for a month. They could play some backups and still beat KC and the Bears in their current condition. If Detroit has clinched a spot by that last game they'd be more likely to rest guys than GB resting guys for 3 weeks. They'll go 16-0. Between today's game and KC their starters will get plenty of rest.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by TroyF

When have I made the point he's something special as a thrower? I'm simply asking questions. Let's say 3 of the 5 drops turn into catches and one of those catches is the TD. Suddenly you have 2 more drives that had life which were punts. You have 7 points on the board before the fourth quarter. You still have Tebow at 6/16. I don't think that's exactly special as a passer. On the other hand, 10 to 13 points or so against that Bears defense through three quarters isn't garbage either, is it?

I have plenty of blame for Tebow when things go poorly. I predicted before the game he'd have trouble against the Bears because of his passing. But while his passing was bad, it wasn't horrific. Were there any remarkable catches in the fourth quarters/OT? Thomas made a nice diving grab, but other than that, the balls were placed where they needed to be. (like the Decker pass on the sideline)

Last week he hit Thomas with a perfect pass on a 3rd and 9 with the game on the line. That was dropped as well which led to the game tying FG and the INT from Ponder that cost the Vikings the game. That throw wasn't made against a prevent and the coverage was good on the play. He clearly knows how to throw the ball, he just seems to do it in the fourth quarter. He's never going to be Brady or Brees, but I think there is potential for him to get to the 55 to 57 percent range with a decent WR core and more experience.

I thought he looked very impressive in the 4th quarter and OT like he has in many games.

Over a larger sample size he is completing 47 percent of his passes. You like to cherry pick certain throws that should have/could have been caught but other QBs have that same problem and are still completing over 60 percent of their passes.

And yes I really do hope there is potential for him to get in that 55-57 percent range otherwise they are wasting their time as that is pretty ordinary for a NFL QB in todays NFL.

I really dont know why Tebow starts out games so poorly and ends them so much better but I tend to think he is probably closer to the beginning of the game player than he is the end of the game player. I dont remember all of the numbers from his awful starts but I have a hard time any player that will end up being a decent player could have starts like that. Do you remember a player like Big Ben or Tom Brady EVER having going through a 3/16 spell at any point in a game? Tebow makes it almost a habbit.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Niners should be embarrassed with their effort today. That is a game you have to win.
And the Tebow's force a fumble!!!!

Yes they should be embarassed, especially when you just beat the same QB a couple weeks ago where he threw 3 more INT's. Figured it would be much the same when Kolb went out, but I'll take it. If Cards win out they might get the last wild card spot-that really would be crazy given their season to date.