The Official 2019 NBA Off-season Thread

[bhlloy]

Do any real contenders either have room or the desire for him?

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Seriously. Even as a fringe/G-League guy he still manages to be the biggest bonehead in the league.

Second worst player in the league who played over 30 games by most advanced metrics (thanks, Antonio Blakeney) - if he hadn't gone to Duke and have that Coach K scrappy white dude aura about him he'd probably already be in Europe by now. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out of the league, moron.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Here ya go

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Do any real contenders either have room or the desire for him?

Maybe to Minn for Wiggins. Or Miami for Dragic, though that doesn't get them younger. Chicago? A friend of mine suggested Phoenix.

How about they buy him out and he goes to the Lakers along with Carmelo? I would pay money to see that happen.

[BishopMVP]

Chicago actually has a decent young core & everybody likes Coby White right now. Phoenix just signed their franchise PG in Ricky Rubio, so they wouldn't even be an option until December 15.

To Minnesota for Wiggins + is the only one I can see that gets Paul on a contending team. Everyone can have fun saying the Lakers, but I don't even see any way OKC or CP3 would agree to a buyout - he has like 2/$76 + a $40m player option left on the deal. Maybe Presti can find a way to cobble together multiple bad contracts from someone.

[BishopMVP]

If Charlotte hadn't just overpaid Terry Rozier that'd actually be a classic Charlotte thing - trade a couple expiring contracts like Batum & Marvin Williams for a college star from NC who could keep them hanging around the 8th seed all year.

MJ PLEASE FORGET YOU READ THIS

[miami_fan]

Some of the Westbrook love I am seeing this morning in the media has been fascinating. The leaps from "I wouldn't trade anything for Russ" to "Westbrook is the perfect mate for Harden" are the stuff serious leg injuries are made of.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Some of the Westbrook love I am seeing this morning in the media has been fascinating. The leaps from "I wouldn't trade anything for Russ" to "Westbrook is the perfect mate for Harden" are the stuff serious leg injuries are made of.

Westbrook is a great case where his extension is a bad contract, but he's still a very good player. So as laughable as it was when Simmons had him top 20 in his trade value column, I also think this does help Houston because Paul had already gone over that cliff (and he was showing a lot of signs of it even before they signed him to that big extension), while Westbrook hasn't yet.

I also really don't think it's a bad fit. Harden & CP3 basically traded halfcourt possessions when both were healthy & on the court, and Russ will push transition much more than CP3 did, which was an ongoing source of consternation for D'Antoni & Harden.

Would I have traded 2024/'26/maybe '25 firsts for him? (The 2021 swap shouldn't matter, though good for Presti for getting another extremely long shot lottery ticket thrown in.) No, but I could see Morey saying Tillman Fertitta sucks as an owner, I'll take another shot in an open league these next 2-3 seasons & let somebody else clean up the mess in 5 years.


Btw, re: Tacko, this is my first experience with Exhibit 10 contracts... I guess the Celtics basically have exclusive (NBA) rights to him until the post-training camp cut down date, but then we need to decide if we give him a 2-way deal, the 15th roster spot, or release our exclusive rights to him but still give him a spot on the G-League affiliate (where he would get a 50k bonus for playing, as an incentive to stay with us over going overseas or to a different team unless they offer him a full contract.) So as much as I would prefer he have an official contract over Brad Wanamaker, or a 2-way over Tremont Waters and Max Strus I guess there is no urgency to do it now instead of seeing how training camp & preseason vs realer NBA players goes.

[miami_fan]

Anthony Bennett... yes that Anthony Bennett has gotten an non guaranteed invite to the Rockets training camp.

It would be pretty cool to see him find a place in the league after bouncing around the G League the last few years.

[stevew]

I know it's all relative to the cap but the thought of paying Westbrook 47 million is startling. I can almost guarantee he will have fallen off a cliff by then. That contract gets absorbed by some shit team trying to get to the salary floor.

[bhlloy]

So, just me or does Jeremy Lin need to get a serious dose of reality? Nearly 31 years old, poor volume shooter, bad defensively, A/TO rating not great, was he expecting teams to be clamoring to sign him to a big FA deal to be a sixth man or something?

I mean other than the fading memory of Linsanity (when let's be honest he was barely among the top 80 players in the league by most reasonable metrics) he's pretty much the case study for finishing a career up in Europe surely?

[stevew]

Not sure I’d want to pay CJ McCollum an extra 100million for his age 30-32 seasons. Feel like he could get kinda fat and that deal could be brutal

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

So, just me or does Jeremy Lin need to get a serious dose of reality? Nearly 31 years old, poor volume shooter, bad defensively, A/TO rating not great, was he expecting teams to be clamoring to sign him to a big FA deal to be a sixth man or something?

I mean other than the fading memory of Linsanity (when let's be honest he was barely among the top 80 players in the league by most reasonable metrics) he's pretty much the case study for finishing a career up in Europe surely?

Europe? His destiny has always been to be Starbury part 2 in China. That video of him crying was a bad look, but I do think he's also always put a burden on himself to be an example for other Chinese people under 7', and I still think he broke through some barriers and stereotypes.

Originally Posted by stevew

Not sure I’d want to pay CJ McCollum an extra 100million for his age 30-32 seasons. Feel like he could get kinda fat and that deal could be brutal

Maybe I'm just used to seeing supermax numbers thrown around, but $33m/y for an all-star in his age 30-32 years seems reasonable. Not sure why you think he'd get fat? He's never had a prototypical NBA body or been a great athlete, seems to have a great head on his shoulders, and derives a lot of value from his shooting so I don't think he'll age worse than most.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

So, just me or does Jeremy Lin need to get a serious dose of reality? Nearly 31 years old, poor volume shooter, bad defensively, A/TO rating not great, was he expecting teams to be clamoring to sign him to a big FA deal to be a sixth man or something?

I thought the complaint was more about "no offer" rather than "no big offer"?

If so, I think he seems pretty reasonable to be disappointed. He was - for him - pretty solid offensively (highest overall FG% of his career) during his time in ATL last year, though certainly the shorter stint in TOR was pretty abysmal.

In the right role I figure he's still at least serviceable, and that's usually enough to warrant a contract of some sort (size of contract not withstanding)

[stevew]

Lin is the basketball equivalent of a backup RB that can’t play special teams. He’s eventually going to catch on but definitely not a priority.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I thought the complaint was more about "no offer" rather than "no big offer"?

If so, I think he seems pretty reasonable to be disappointed. He was - for him - pretty solid offensively (highest overall FG% of his career) during his time in ATL last year, though certainly the shorter stint in TOR was pretty abysmal.

In the right role I figure he's still at least serviceable, and that's usually enough to warrant a contract of some sort (size of contract not withstanding)

I didn't read it like that, but you're right, it's not clear cut what the complaint was.

But again, even "pretty solid" offensively was barely above replacement level by the narrowest of margins, .333 from 3pt range on 2.5 attempts per game and 3.5 assists to 2 turnovers per game for a combo guard who is bad defensively. If he's really willing to play for a NBA minsal deal I'm sure he's going to get it eventually, but you can look at his age, his overall game and not be surprised why teams are looking at players 7 or 8 years younger and they can get the same thing for a lot cheaper (and frankly without some of the Linsanity baggage).

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I didn't read it like that, but you're right, it's not clear cut what the complaint was.

But again, even "pretty solid" offensively was barely above replacement level by the narrowest of margins, .333 from 3pt range on 2.5 attempts per game and 3.5 assists to 2 turnovers per game for a combo guard who is bad defensively. If he's really willing to play for a NBA minsal deal I'm sure he's going to get it eventually, but you can look at his age, his overall game and not be surprised why teams are looking at players 7 or 8 years younger and they can get the same thing for a lot cheaper (and frankly without some of the Linsanity baggage).

But are teams not bringing him in because of the numbers or the baggage?

I read his comments in a similar vain as John. I am not saying he is a must sign for any NBA team but I would understand his disappointment if the backlash to the Linsanity era was still being held against him and was costing him a spot on an NBA roster. I am sure he sees himself as worthy of a "team first guy who would be a great fit in any locker room" role for a team.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Europe? His destiny has always been to be Starbury part 2 in China. That video of him crying was a bad look, but I do think he's also always put a burden on himself to be an example for other Chinese people under 7', and I still think he broke through some barriers and stereotypes.

Jeremy Lin's Taiwan link is probably enough to make this a bit of a muddy situation.

I follow a lot of fringe NBA guys on Twitter and it's been interesting seeing their reactions to his video. Dude has spent a lot of time in the league, had some real highlights and earnt good coin. I don't think he's getting a lot of sympathy. He could earn good money anywhere else in the world to keep playing, or just stay in shape and wait for a team looking for experienced PG depth during the season.

[stevew]

Must be the slow season with all this Melo coverage. Unlike Lin, he can actually go play in China and maybe get a call up for the playoffs. Lance got 4 million to go to China. Hell if Melo thinks he can play still, go tear up the G League. Force them to keep you off a roster.

[miami_fan]

Per Woj: Draymond is staying with the Warriors. 4yr,$100 mil

[stevew]

This has to be the worst national team ever, right?

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by stevew

This has to be the worst national team ever, right?

It's pretty bad in terms of name power, but I actually think the guys selected will work fine in the international game. Lack of familiarity with each other versus the Euro teams (and maybe Australia) is what might stop them from taking out the world cup.

[stevew]

A Boogie with a Torn ACL

[johnblake17]

I have just started watching NBA.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by stevew

This has to be the worst national team ever, right?

2006 was pretty brutal. The big names were mostly 20-21 United States 2006 FIBA World Cup Roster - RealGM

Clearly they were missing Marcus Smart during that scrimmage! (Seriously, he should absolutely be the 11th/12th man.)

[JPhillips]

WHy do we suck so much in the Albert Schwietzer tournament?

[cyclone44]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

It's pretty bad in terms of name power, but I actually think the guys selected will work fine in the international game. Lack of familiarity with each other versus the Euro teams (and maybe Australia) is what might stop them from taking out the world cup.

I agree. There are only 12 spots for a team and it's smarter to use the last ones for a specialist like Joe Harris rather than a player with more name recognition who's just a worse version of whoever's starting or in the rotation.

edit: they also handled #2 in the world Spain by a decent margin last week

[miami_fan]

Sources: Howard to join Lakers with stern caveat

Thank you basketball gods!

[Groundhog]

Australia beats USA in the 2nd exhibition game for our first ever win over Team USA ever, and the first time a USA team (with NBA players) has lost in 13 years. It was a pretty excellent game to watch, Kemba was great (and should be a beast at the world cup), but Patty Mills was phenomenal and knocked down some huge shots down the stretch. Bogut also turned back the clock and had some huge plays and amazing assists from the high post.

[Atocep]

I need someone to explain Caris LeVert to me.

I get why he's getting a 3 year $17 mil contract. They're paying to keep the core together around Kyrie and KD. So it makes sense to overpay in this instance on a 3 year deal.

However, the consensus on reddit seems to be that this is an incredible steal for the Nets and he's a better player that DLo and a way better value than Jamal Murray.

How?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I need someone to explain Caris LeVert to me.

I get why he's getting a 3 year $17 mil contract. They're paying to keep the core together around Kyrie and KD. So it makes sense to overpay in this instance on a 3 year deal.

However, the consensus on reddit seems to be that this is an incredible steal for the Nets and he's a better player that DLo and a way better value than Jamal Murray.

How?

Everything I've seen about this deal seems to describe him as "borderline All-Star" and the Nets are banking that he reaches that level.

If that's right then, yeah, he's way better value than Jamal Murray (since I don't think I've ever put his name & the words All-Star in the same sentence)

I ain't saying right or wrong, but that seems to be the hot takes on it.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Everything I've seen about this deal seems to describe him as "borderline All-Star" and the Nets are banking that he reaches that level.

If that's right then, yeah, he's way better value than Jamal Murray (since I don't think I've ever put his name & the words All-Star in the same sentence)

I ain't saying right or wrong, but that seems to be the hot takes on it.

Yeah, I just don't get that take. Nothing about his traditional stat line or his advanced metrics says borderline all star. He rates out as slightly below average defensively and is a poor shooter for a wing.

Murray has already played at a higher level and is 2 and a half years younger. Murray's contract is scary, but if I'm placing bets on one it's the younger player that's played at a higher level already.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I need someone to explain Caris LeVert to me.

I get why he's getting a 3 year $17 mil contract. They're paying to keep the core together around Kyrie and KD. So it makes sense to overpay in this instance on a 3 year deal.

However, the consensus on reddit seems to be that this is an incredible steal for the Nets and he's a better player that DLo and a way better value than Jamal Murray.

How?

I think it all depends on if you believe LeVert will make a similar jump to what Pascal Siakam did last year. The numbers were pretty similar their first two years in the league. In their third year, LeVert suffered the gruesome injury early and Siakam made a jump playing alongside Kawahi. LeVert was a better all around player than D'Angelo prior to his injury from the games I saw. IF LeVert makes a similar jump playing with Kyrie and then KD, that is a great value. I am not sure if makes up for the value of an improving Jamal Murray who is three years younger.

[Chief Rum]

Before his injury early this past season, LeVert was phenomenal. Borderline All Star is a bit ridiculous, but he was better than DLo at the start of the season. He never really got back into rhythm once he came back.

All that said, he would be an ideal third scorer to match with KD and Kyrie, if left wanting for more consistency and defense (the latter of which the Nets are also not going to get from their two new stars).

[stevew]

1. They can’t get anyone else basically.
2. He can be bundled in a trade eventually for a better player.
3. 17m seemed WAY too low to me. I wouldn’t have blinked if it was 4/90.
4. 17M in today’s dollars is basically like 10 million due to inflation. Larry Nance Jr gets 12 million this year for example. It’s basically half a midlevel more than a midlevel essentially.

[miami_fan]

Stolen from Kirk Goldsberry

Point Differential by Zone

3-pointers: USA +12
Free Throws: USA +11
2-pointers: Turkey +22

[miami_fan]

Dola

That Tatum ankle roll

[BishopMVP]

I think there's as good a chance Carmelo plays regular season games for the Lakers as Dwight does. Dye job, mutton chops & goatee? Stupendous.

[Groundhog]

It's strange, but re: Australia in the World Cup there's probably 2 teams I'd prefer we don't get matched up against above Team USA. Yet take nearly any player on Team USA (maybe 2 exceptions) and put them on a random World Cup team and that team is significantly better. Definitely less than the sum of their parts.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

It's strange, but re: Australia in the World Cup there's probably 2 teams I'd prefer we don't get matched up against above Team USA. Yet take nearly any player on Team USA (maybe 2 exceptions) and put them on a random World Cup team and that team is significantly better. Definitely less than the sum of their parts.

I blame poor coaching.

Seriously idk, hard to doubt Popovich et al & I understand other teams have had years to define player roles & work on chemistry, but there's just been so many weird lineups put out there in the last two weeks.

[stevew]

Hard to get excited about a national team made up of so many Celtics.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by stevew

Hard to get excited about a national team made up of so many Celtics.

Eh, it'd be fine if it was '08 KG/Pierce/Allen/Rondo, or '86 Bird/McHale/Parish/DJ, when it's a borderline top 10 NBA team it's not great. The problem is there's only one big & Brook Lopez/Mason Plumlee are wasting roster spots, but I'm not even sure what American big men were available. Maybe Jarrett Allen or Jaren Jackson? Zach Collins or Bam Adebayo lol?

[whomario]

Got to love that Luis Scola (now 39 years old and playing in China) is still rocking his customary 17/8 in international play (23/10 per 36)

[Groundhog]

France-Australia last night was one of the best games of the tournament so far, and I don't think I'm even being (too) biased when I say that.

Baynes with 3 huge drawn charges down the stretch and some insane 3pt shooting (5/6).

[whomario]

And now Argentina knocked out Serbia to reach the Semis, Scola with 20 including 3 big baskets in the last 3 minutes.

[Groundhog]

Scola was amazing. Jokic a but underwhelming this campaign, I think he's too used to the NBA spacing and strangely seems to have the same sort of trouble adjusting to this style of game that a lot of the Team USA guys have had.

Aussies play Czech Republic tonight in what was the best case matchup for us. Beat them (no easy task, they've been exceeding expectations and we've shown so far to play to the level of our opposition), and we face Spain for the gold medal game. Spain should crunch us, but this is easily the best chance we've had at a medal in international comp.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Scola was amazing. Jokic a but underwhelming this campaign, I think he's too used to the NBA spacing and strangely seems to have the same sort of trouble adjusting to this style of game that a lot of the Team USA guys have had.

Aussies play Czech Republic tonight in what was the best case matchup for us. Beat them (no easy task, they've been exceeding expectations and we've shown so far to play to the level of our opposition), and we face Spain for the gold medal game. Spain should crunch us, but this is easily the best chance we've had at a medal in international comp.

Hard to blame Jokic - he wasn't even a starter!

[MrBug708]

USA loses to France

[Groundhog]

Yeah fun game to watch, Pop's reluctance to play any bigs meant Gobert ran riot. The last couple of minutes of the game in particular he was huge on both ends.

USA with some real poor decision making and turnovers in the last 2 minutes also. I think most of the blame for this result has to go with the guys who didn't turn up versus those that did., and I think Kemba and Mitchell are perhaps the only two ideal guys you'd want to return on the Olympics' squad. I thought Myles Turner would've been better in this format, but alas no. Pops sat him a lot, but no question he was a bit shaky on the defensive end in particular.

Australia stays undefeated and is through to the Semis with our win over a sneaky good Czech Republic, giving us two shots at our first medal. If we get the revenge win over Spain (re: our Olympics clash in Brazil) it's for gold against winner of France-Argentina, if we lose it's bronze versus the loser of that game. Already our highest placing at a world cup and first time we've ever finished on top of Team USA in any international tourney.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Yeah fun game to watch, Pop's reluctance to play any bigs meant Gobert ran riot. The last couple of minutes of the game in particular he was huge on both ends.

USA with some real poor decision making and turnovers in the last 2 minutes also. I think most of the blame for this result has to go with the guys who didn't turn up versus those that did., and I think Kemba and Mitchell are perhaps the only two ideal guys you'd want to return on the Olympics' squad. I thought Myles Turner would've been better in this format, but alas no. Pops sat him a lot, but no question he was a bit shaky on the defensive end in particular.

Australia stays undefeated and is through to the Semis with our win over a sneaky good Czech Republic, giving us two shots at our first medal. If we get the revenge win over Spain (re: our Olympics clash in Brazil) it's for gold against winner of France-Argentina, if we lose it's bronze versus the loser of that game. Already our highest placing at a world cup and first time we've ever finished on top of Team USA in any international tourney.

Myles Turner wasn't the problem, the problem is that he isn't as good as Rudy Gobert & he was miles better than any other big. I'm fine with him as #2/3 C, but it's basically Anthony Davis or bust for next Summer's Olympics. Could still win without them if better wings show up or outside shots fall, but even this Serbia game it's a glaring weakness.

Tatum was valuable too when he played, and I actually think Marcus Smart should always be the 11/12th man, but the rest other than Mitchell are fungible at best. I love Kemba, but if Steph & Dame want to play idk if a 3rd guard of that type is necessary.

[Groundhog]

Agree on skill, but I kinda feel like at least Kemba deserves some credit for sticking with this team when a lot of others didn't, when he had a lot more to lose than he did win.

Australia has an interesting decision for the Olympics re: Ben Simmons and Jonah Bolden as well, given how this squad has gone. Hard to see a player like Simmons slotting into the offense the Boomers have been running, although I could see him working similar to what we've seen Bogut doing, but it would mean a lot less ball handling for Ben than he's used to. Jonah may have burnt his bridges by pulling out of the squad so quickly a week before the tourney.