Something rotten in Toonsville GAME OVER

[JAG]

That vote won't count Danny, needs to be in a separate post.

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Wouldn't a public election of a sheriff put a bullseye on his/her back by the wolves? Not sure if that is worth the nurse reveal since it would make both of them public. (unless the nurse is inactive also)

Sure, but as long as the Nurse's ability isn't a BG-like one, then the new Sheriff should be able to be protected. Because they're public, we can also immediately begin using their scans. The downside of course is the Nurse might have a useful role and we can't guarantee the person we make Sheriff is cleared (unless we make the Nurse the Sheriff).

I don't know, I'm not saying it's a clearly great move, but it should be considered. It's going to be difficult to clear or condemn people based on posts because there aren't that many or votes because this isn't a typical game for voting record with non-standard voting options available, so having someone that can scan would be pretty valuable. Guarding the portal might be better too for all we know.

One other thing I gleamed from the rules, the object of the game is to win. Note that it doesn't say 'Villagers must eliminate all wolves, wolves need to get a 1:1 ratio with villagers'. I'm sure getting rid of wolves will help us, but there might be a nonstandard way to win as well.

[Coffee Warlord]

So, do we just have the greatest bodyguard in the history of WW, or have there been no night kills thus far?

[Coffee Warlord]

My pre-coffee thought says it's probably better for us today to either guard the portal or elect a sheriff. Lynching someone is very nearly the equivalent of another day 1 vote right now, and if the wolves aren't going to get a night kill in, let's not do their job for them.

[DaddyTorgo]

Fuck you clap.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

My pre-coffee thought says it's probably better for us today to either guard the portal or elect a sheriff. Lynching someone is very nearly the equivalent of another day 1 vote right now, and if the wolves aren't going to get a night kill in, let's not do their job for them.

That's going a bit far, we do have some voting info now and know clap and sal were villagers. Hopefully someone has time to put together a record.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by JAG

Ok then. This is an interesting decision. If the Nurse feels their role is not that valuable, then it might be worth them giving us that information. If it is valuable, then say nothing and we can use that data point in our choice today. The citizen who won the Portal power also might have an idea if keeping the portal safe is worth voting no lynch (it would have to be pretty useful I'd think).

And would it be advisable to promote the nurse to sheriff? Assuming we sort out any claim war for nurse, we'd have a known good as sheriff. Then again, there are few things more valuable in the late game than a known good vanilla--trusted by the group, unattractive for purposes of NKs.

[The Jackal]

So we started out with 15, probably a 12-3 split, or perhaps an 11-3-1 with the outlaw not knowing if they would count for the village or not. Let's assume best case we're at 10-3 now. NKs are going to happen sooner or later, but having a seer is always a good idea. If the sheriff wasn't the BG, presumably there's a role (guessing doctor, with the savior language) that would be able to protect someone we elected - though it would require them to be checking the thread...

Though we also have to consider that the nurse could be the BG - it'd be a bitch to sacrifice the BG to raise a known seer, and I kind of doubt that mechanism would happen. Which is why I lean towards thinking the nurse isn't a BG.

Unless someone comes out with a revelation I'd say it's a smarter play to fix the portal or elect a sheriff than vote someone out based on gut/couple of days of vote history.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

So, do we just have the greatest bodyguard in the history of WW, or have there been no night kills thus far?

My guess is that our group of saboteur(s) is less powerful than a standard pack of werewolves... at least at this point.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

So we started out with 15, probably a 12-3 split, or perhaps an 11-3-1 with the outlaw not knowing if they would count for the village or not. Let's assume best case we're at 10-3 now. NKs are going to happen sooner or later, but having a seer is always a good idea. If the sheriff wasn't the BG, presumably there's a role (guessing doctor, with the savior language) that would be able to protect someone we elected - though it would require them to be checking the thread...

Though we also have to consider that the nurse could be the BG - it'd be a bitch to sacrifice the BG to raise a known seer, and I kind of doubt that mechanism would happen. Which is why I lean towards thinking the nurse isn't a BG.

Unless someone comes out with a revelation I'd say it's a smarter play to fix the portal or elect a sheriff than vote someone out based on gut/couple of days of vote history.

Disagree with the proposed ratios. Seems like the saboteur set would be starting small and perhaps growing or gaining power with time. Just my own hunch, though.

Agree with your second pph. I think the nurse might be a doctor-in-waiting, or a wound-treater (wild guess). Doctor seems like a likely BG, so exchanging the nurse for a sheriff would be okay by me. Just have to hope the doctor isn't a martyr instead of a BG.

As for today's vote, I'm fairly agnostic as to what to do.

[The Jackal]

And when I say fix the portal, I mean guard the portal, of course

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by britrock88

Disagree with the proposed ratios. Seems like the saboteur set would be starting small and perhaps growing or gaining power with time. Just my own hunch, though.

Well, if we're assuming that the saboteur group wasn't set in stone to begin with and can grow, it'll definitely be hard to nail down exact ratio. I guess we don't have to worry about it for a couple of days anyhow, especially if we end up not voting people off.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by britrock88

My guess is that our group of saboteur(s) is less powerful than a standard pack of werewolves... at least at this point.

However if you're right about this, we might want to be careful if we have a choice to not vote someone off every day. I could see choosing not to vote someone off as a necessity for a conversion attempt to happen.

[The Jackal]

If I were to vote someone today, it would probably be mau, DT, or someone who's barely posted - mau for that vote on CR with never explaining it (unless I missed it), and DT for no great reason other than a feeling.

I'll potentially re-adjust that if someone has time to put together vote history (unfortunately I don't right now.. maybe in the afternoon though)

[Autumn]

Lot to sort through here.

I think it's clear we're not dealing with blocked kills, but with a non-standard bad guy set up. I think it's conceivable that there are no night kills at all in the game, or not as a standard nightly event. It sounds like victory probably means restoring things to the rightful order, and victory for the bad guys involves messing that up somehow. In this way this is probably more like the game where we had to build our spaceship and blast off, where the bad guys have the opportunity to screw with things every day.

[Autumn]

We're obviously given a hard vote, but considering what I'm imaging the rule set to be, I think our best bets are to guard the portal or elect a sheriff. I think we probably need to save lynches for when we have more sure information. But I would bet that if we don't guard the portal it will be sabotaged once again and we'll lose ground.

I like the idea of moving the nurse to a sheriff, and having a validated public seer for at least a little bit. Given that it costs us a role though, I'm not sure if it's worth it given that we'd probably be losing the portal again. So I'm leaning towards portal but am going to give it some thought.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Lot to sort through here.

I think it's clear we're not dealing with blocked kills, but with a non-standard bad guy set up. I think it's conceivable that there are no night kills at all in the game, or not as a standard nightly event. It sounds like victory probably means restoring things to the rightful order, and victory for the bad guys involves messing that up somehow. In this way this is probably more like the game where we had to build our spaceship and blast off, where the bad guys have the opportunity to screw with things every day.

My problem with that logic is, if we're assuming one of the roles is a bodyguard esque role, that would pretty much require that there be something to guard against.

Of course, there's a middle ground of limited night kills, or something along those lines. Perhaps the GM nixed the night kill last night since he killed off our idle player (who happened to be seer, too).

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Lot to sort through here.

I think it's clear we're not dealing with blocked kills, but with a non-standard bad guy set up. I think it's conceivable that there are no night kills at all in the game, or not as a standard nightly event. It sounds like victory probably means restoring things to the rightful order, and victory for the bad guys involves messing that up somehow. In this way this is probably more like the game where we had to build our spaceship and blast off, where the bad guys have the opportunity to screw with things every day.

You dare bring up Spawn...*twitch*

Looking at how EF wrote up the night events, I would be surprised if wolves don't have night kills. I'm sure we'll see them at some point. It may be that they have to make choices like we are (night kill or sabotage portal).

As to what happened yesterday, there are tons of possibilities. Blocked kill (BG or going after Zinto), kill removed due to extra clap kill, maybe they voted a wolf into a role or conversion...I don't think we can make much of an assumption with so many possibilities.

Yet another thought regarding the loss of the Nurse role...it could be that role hasn't been assigned yet, in which case it wouldn't be a net loss at all.

I have to give props to EF, this has been a thought-provoking game so far.

[Autumn]

Yeah, that's what I meant, and think I said--if the wolves have kills it's likely not a standard nightly event. It's something they get every other night, or more likely they have to choose between sabotage, kill, other options.

Either way, a seer role seems more important for sure than anything to do with a bodyguard type role, so I have no problem possibly converting a nurse to sheriff. Given that this may be a one-time chance to vote in a sheriff, and possibly a daily event to have to guard the portal, this might be the day to not guard it.

[Zinto]

I doubt that the saboteurs had a kill night one, since there was no lynch. I am leaning towards electing a sheriff but I am not sure who we should make the new sheriff.

[Zinto]

When the portal is up do we only get an extra vote? Do we think there is any other advantage to having the portal up?

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by JAG

You dare bring up Spawn...*twitch*

It seems plausible that he would transfer a NK into a modkill of an inactive player, IMO.

I would lean toward electing a sheriff today _IF_ we can find the right person (probably the nurse) to elevate to that position.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Zinto

When the portal is up do we only get an extra vote? Do we think there is any other advantage to having the portal up?

I didn't even notice that someone got an extra vote until you said that. I wonder if 'random citizen' includes saboteurs.

[britrock88]

List of our inactives, FTR:

Schmidty - 2 posts
murrayyyyy - 7 posts
mauchow - 9 posts
Danny - 9 posts

[The Jackal]

Well, at least Danny has said he won't be around. Doesn't make reading him any easier.

[Coffee Warlord]

I didn't even realize Schmidty was in the game.

[Zinto]

I think he may have forgotten about the game. Unfortunately, that happens with Schmidty

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Haven't played WW in forever, because I always have some crisis happen when I'm in a game. Or I forget I'm in a game.

[Coffee Warlord]

So if we assume the nurse is in the game, and it sounds like it's pretty much a given, I agree that's the only person who we should elect as sheriff. It would necessitate a role reveal, which isn't traditionally ideal, but unless the nurse has some badass powers, we'd get some good mileage of having a turn or two of a known seer vetting people.

We need to decide early today if we're going that route, though, as whoever is the nurse will have to out themselves.

[Coffee Warlord]

And really, working under the following assumptions:

1) The nurse is in the game.
2) The nurse is a villager.

It seems like it's a good trade for us. How often do you get a known seer who can vet at least a couple people before they inevitably die?

Obviously, if 1 or 2 is false, or if there's a conversion mechanic, it would be very very bad.

[Suicane75]

Vote: Guard Portal

[Chief Rum]

Perhaps we should set a deadline for the nurse to decide whether it is best to reveal or not? Let's say 5 p.m. EST/2 p.m. PDT?

If the nurse doesn't reveal, I don't see anyone else I am comfortable with as the Sheriff, and figure we should just go with the other options.

[Suicane75]

Ok, was just reading through everything so I don't ask a stupid question.What would the power of the role of a sheriff likely be?

[Coffee Warlord]

EF said it flat out. Sheriff == Seer.

[Suicane75]

Ok, so that means he can scan someone to see if they're good or evil?

[Suicane75]

Durp, ok saw it in the write up.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Ok, so that means he can scan someone to see if they're good or evil?

Correct

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Perhaps we should set a deadline for the nurse to decide whether it is best to reveal or not? Let's say 5 p.m. EST/2 p.m. PDT?

If the nurse doesn't reveal, I don't see anyone else I am comfortable with as the Sheriff, and figure we should just go with the other options.

I think a deadline is probably a good idea.

[The Jackal]

guard portal

[The Jackal]

as a placeholder, admittedly I forgot to check back in last night. grilling porkchops gave me the itis

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Perhaps we should set a deadline for the nurse to decide whether it is best to reveal or not? Let's say 5 p.m. EST/2 p.m. PDT?

If the nurse doesn't reveal, I don't see anyone else I am comfortable with as the Sheriff, and figure we should just go with the other options.

I agree with this -- unless a nurse reveals, I don't see any reason to vote someone randomly as the sheriff. I will also wait, and if no one has revealed, vote to guard the portal.

[JAG]

Lets say we guard the portal, someone gets night killed, and we're presented with similar options tomorrow. Does that change your thinking on the course of action or are you ok with continuing to guard the portal? By guarding it, we would be banking on working portal worth more than the info we'd get from voting. At this point we know working portal = extra vote + some ability, broken portal = extra saboteur vote, assuming they would choose to break the portal rather than (presumably) make a night kill. So we vote for someone, they break the portal and get a two vote swing, then what? Fix it?

I don't know, we really have a lack of info to work out our optimal path. This day hasn't really been helpful at all in terms of figuring out what's going on and who our potential saboteurs are. If I get some free time in the evening I'll try to put together some info from the past two days so we can try to sort out the people who have been posting. I'm not going to spend more time speculating about unknown mechanics.

[Autumn]

I agree, that's the worry with guarding the portal. I am assuming that probably keeping the portal operational is going to be important, but that's just a hunch. If it's really only worth a two vote swing, I wouldn't bother. However, if the victory conditions hinge on the portal one way or another, then it's one of those things where we may have to stick to it for a few days and take losses.

[mauchow]

I assumd that the role would be handed out at random.. don't reveal role nurse.

[Autumn]

Also, it occurs to me that some people may not agree or have noticed, but I am assuming that our two deaths last night were due to Lovers roles. Which I think means that there are possibly roles not listed. Something to keep in mind.

[Coffee Warlord]

I doubt it, highly. 1 was lynched, the other was MIA.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by mauchow

I assumd that the role would be handed out at random.. don't reveal role nurse.

The sheriff role? The one that we have to vote a specific person into?

[Autumn]

Since when do players get killed for being MIA?

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Then you see a sight that you may never erase from your collective mind. You see a coyote and a kitty locked a passionate embrace yet they are not moving. They seemed to be so consumed by their love for each other that they forgot to eat or drink and both have perished.

Seemed obvious to me, but that's why I brought it up, I realized I hadn't heard anyone else say so.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Since when do players get killed for being MIA?

Yeah I wouldn't expect that to happen. Maybe it was a delayed kill since he won the lynch vote? Maybe a condition had to be fulfilled to avoid a death and clap didn't do it?

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Seemed obvious to me, but that's why I brought it up, I realized I hadn't heard anyone else say so.

Yeah.. that sure sounds like lovers, good call.