2008-2009 College Basketball Thread......

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

KenPom rankings are far kinder to these teams that the pollsters:

Mizzou #8
Illini #16

Of course, rankings that list UNC at #4 clearly cannot be taken at face value. And, yes, I understand that there is a mathematical formula behind the rankings. I put a lot of value in his rankings at the end of the year. Much less so in December.

And what if the winning score is right on 70? Well, Pomeroy has a Mizzou 70-67 win projected (61% certainty).

Wow - only game that Mizzou is projected to lose the rest of the way is @ KU.

A lot of the reason that Mizzou is doing much better this year both in record and in computer rankings is their rebounding. Mike Anderson teams typically are lucky to break even in rebounding against their opponents over the course of the year and usually don't finish any higher than 200 in Division I in rebounding. This year, Mizzou is currently 2nd in rebounding in the Big 12. That's a positive situation that Coach Anderson hasn't had at Mizzou before now thanks to our great seniors in the post.

[hoopsguy]

Discouraging to hear if you are pulling for the Illini. Fricking Hawaii housed them 43-14 on the glass earlier this season. Rebounding has been very problematic for this team and it is why I expect them to have all kinds of trouble with the first part of the Big 10 schedule.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Seriously.......why is Memphis still ranked on the USA Today Coaches poll? They've lost 3 of their last 5 games. I'm getting the impression that the coaches are being a bit lazy and just writing down their polls without checking the actual game results..........

ESPN - NCAA College Basketball Polls, College Basketball Rankings, NCAA Basketball Polls

[JonInMiddleGA]

Probably more name recognition than actual quality teams here, but Georgia Tech & Southern Cal are underway and on TV if you've got the right FSN outelt I guess. 13-13 with 12 minutes left in the first half.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

why is Memphis still ranked on the USA Today Coaches poll? They've lost 3 of their last 5 games.

They've lost to a top 5 team in OT, a top 10 team, and a top 15 team. There is no evidence to suggest that they are not one of the top 25 teams in the country. They are certainly one of the 25 most talented.

They have beaten noone of substance, however, so other than talent, there is no reason to suggest that they are one of the top 25 either.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Probably more name recognition than actual quality teams here, but Georgia Tech & Southern Cal are underway and on TV if you've got the right FSN outelt I guess. 13-13 with 12 minutes left in the first half.

Good home win for USC. They seem to be playing better since the pre-season tourney where they lost 2 out of 3. I was surprised to hear Tim Floyd say in one of their sound bites that Mizzou was the best team that they've faced, given that they've also played Oklahoma.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Ping St. Louis people. They just put some good lower level seats up on Ticketmaster for the Braggin' Rights game tonight. Only a few hundred, but they're very good seats.

Line on the game tonight is Mizzou -3.5 right now.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Two new bracketology predictions are out for those who can't wait until March to find out the real brackets...........

ESPN - Bracketology

Bracketology 08-09: Week Four | College Basketball by Collegehoops.net

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Ping St. Louis people. They just put some good lower level seats up on Ticketmaster for the Braggin' Rights game tonight. Only a few hundred, but they're very good seats.

Line on the game tonight is Mizzou -3.5 right now.

Horrible weather tonight.. be careful.

I'll be watching in my nice warm house...

Plus, the Blues - Redwings game is on at the same time!

[hoopsguy]

Illini shot lights out, Mizzou was 0-11 from 3 midway through 2nd half, and Illlini win in a walk to take their 9th straight Bragging Rights game. I think Illini won on the glass, but that is easy to do when the other team is missing a lot more shots. All in all, really good win for an Illinois team that has been a very pleasant surprise so far.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Illini shot lights out, Mizzou was 0-11 from 3 midway through 2nd half, and Illlini win in a walk to take their 9th straight Bragging Rights game. I think Illini won on the glass, but that is easy to do when the other team is missing a lot more shots. All in all, really good win for an Illinois team that has been a very pleasant surprise so far.

Obviously, it's terribly embarrassing to see Mizzou fall flat on their face like that. That's honestly the first bad performance they've had all year. Add on that Illinois couldn't miss and it was a rough situation. I do think that Weber did a great job on the offensive end of spreading his players to minimize Mizzou's chances to trap.

It was actually a terrible night for the whole Big 12 North.....

MU loses to Illinois by 16
KU loses to Zona by 17
ISU loses to South Dakota State by 7
NU loses to UMBC by 2
CU beats Louisana Monroe by 3

In addition, Gonzaga fell to Portland State. Being a college basketball fan is a cruel, cruel occupation.

[Logan]

Buddy of mine just made me aware that Rutgers' next three games are at #1 North Carolina, home to #3 Pitt, and at #2 UConn.

Anybody know if, or when, that's happened before?

[hoopsguy]

There was a lot of talk among Illini fans that the Clemson game helped prepare them for Mizzou, as they got to face a talented, athletic, full-court pressing team 2-3 weeks earlier.

Logan - never heard of that kind of gauntlet before. Good luck?

[Logan]

Thanks man, at least the prior gauntlet of Delaware State, Bryant, and NJIT got us ready!

And I found the answer to my question.

No team is believed to have ever played the nation's top three teams consecutively, especially in a calendar week.

In 1989, under the leadership of current Carolina coach Roy Williams, Kansas defeated No. 2 LSU, No. 1 and No. 25 St. John's.

In 1995, Temple played the nation's top three teams in a span of four consecutive games against ranked foes. Under John Chaney, the Owls defeated No. 2 Villanova, lost to No. 12 Cincinnati, beat No. 1 Kansas in OT and lost at No. 3 Memphis.

[MizzouRah]

Great game by Illinios.. it was fun seeing them in action. Mizzou is playing better than expected though.. and Mike has them going in the right direction.

[Radii]

#2 UConn is hosting #8 Georgetown in a huge early conference matchup. UConn has 5 turnovers in the first 5 minutes and the Hoyas have run out to a 15-1 lead early.

[Wolfpack]

The longknives are coming out again for Coach Lowe as State struggled mightily to put down Loyola (MD) 62-60. I guess that's better than being Indiana right about now, but egad, this is not what's needed when Duke, UNC, and Wake are all coming up on the schedule soon.

[MJ4H]

Arkansas up by 20 with 7:43 to go in the first half against #4 Oklahoma. Arkansas basketball appears to be back. This is awesome to watch. Now, I've seen enough collapses over the last 10 years to be too optimistic, but this looks a heck of a lot better than anything I've seen in those 10 years.

[MJ4H]

Sure enough it's already down to 10

[MJ4H]

53-38 at halftime. If Arkansas can keep the intensity and continue to shoot decently, they should win this. I have missed this type of basketball so much. Thank you John Pelphrey.

[hoopsguy]

Illini pull off a very hard-fought win at Purdue, winning 71-67 in OT. They survived a pretty large foul line discrepancy in regulation (25-3), including a very, very tough call with 1.8 seconds and a one point lead. But Johnson from Purdue - who was damn tough - missed the second shot.

Illinois is so much more efficient offensively this year as compared to the last three seasons. Even Dee Brown's last season had a little too much standing around by the other guys. This team has numerous guys who are willing to share the ball and take a shot within the flow of the offense, regardless of whether it is the first or last five minutes of the game.

[MJ4H]

Arkansas was up 72-47 with about 11 minutes to go in the game. Now with 9:48 to go they are up 72-60. That was the quickest 13-0 run I think I've ever seen. Don't do this to me. I'm serious.

[MJ4H]

Now down to 4, 81-77. 5 minutes to go.

[MJ4H]

We had to have missed 4 or 5 layups in 7 seconds on that possession.

EDIT (because my updates are getting spammy for all but the 1 or 2 that may care): Arkansas 96, #4 Oklahoma 88 FINAL

wooo

[Radii]

That's a huge win, congrats!

[JeeberD]

The Miners got hosed twice in the final three seconds of overtime in Santa Clara. First, when SC called a time-out when they had none left and weren't charged with a technical (the ref later apologized for his mistake), and then when SC center John Bryant knocked over a Miner defender on what turned out to be the game winning basket...

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_11341456

"John Bryant bulled his way to a layup with seven-tenths of a second remaining in overtime to lift Santa Clara to a controversial 89-88 victory over Texas-El Paso and the Cable Car Classic title on Tuesday at the Leavey Center.

With the Broncos trailing 88-87 in the final seconds, Bryant missed a short layup that would have given SCU the lead.

After a tie-up on the rebound, UTEP was awarded possession. But James Rahon intercepted the subsequent inbounds pass with 2.3 seconds left, and as the freshman cradled the ball along the baseline, referee Thomas Wood awarded SCU a timeout.

The problem was that the Broncos were out of timeouts and, Rahon and Coach Kerry Keating insisted after the game, they never asked for it.

"Our entire team was very clear that we had no timeouts left," Keating said. "I saw James trying to get his balance, so he didn't travel. He knew he had a little bit of time left and was sure he was going to make a move to the basket. And then the whistle blew.

"I certainly didn't call a timeout. I know James didn't — he had the ball. "... I'm not going to try to justify why it happened. It happened."

So instead of the Miners (7-5) attempting two game-sealing free throws for a Broncos technical foul, SCU inbounded the ball to Bryant, who pushed his 6-foot-11, 275-pound frame through three defenders to the basket. As Miners players celebrated, believing Bryant was guilty of a charge, the SCU star was
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awarded the basket and a free throw. He missed the free throw, but the Miners' desperation full-court heave fell well short at the buzzer to end the first overtime championship game in the tournament's 42-year history.

The scene was markedly different on the UTEP side of the court. Miners Coach Tony Barbee said, "I've never felt so violated in my life." He said he believed both Keating and Rahon called a timeout.

Barbee added, "What do you expect on the road?"

Immediately after the whistle, Wood told both benches, "I made a mistake." The officiating crew, a local group of West Coast Conference and Pacific-10 Conference officials, left the arena without making themselves available to the media. SCU media relations officials referred all inquiries to the WCC office.

The wild finish didn't dampen SCU's enthusiasm for its first Cable Car title since 2005 and its 15th overall. The Broncos (7-7) have won two in a row heading into a weekend trip to Harvard and New Hampshire.

"I know Tony and respect him and understand the frustration, but things happen. We're just fortunate that we were able to win," Keating said. "It's part of human error, part of the game. But John still was able to execute a play after all that, John still had to put the ball in the basket. That's senior leadership and go-to guy."

The extra session was required because UTEP's Stefon Jackson banked in a tying three-pointer with eight-tenths of a second remaining. Jackson finished with a career-high 44 points.

Bryant was named the tournament MVP.

In the consolation game, it was more frustration for Belmont, the marquee team in the field after reaching the NCAA tournament each of the past three seasons. One night after the Nashville-based school blew an 18-point halftime lead to the Broncos, the Bruins squandered a five-point lead in an 81-64 loss to James Madison.

[JeeberD]

Dola-

Stephon Jackson became UTEP's all-time leading scorer in the loss, btw...

[watravaler]

Yeah, a 13-1 Illinois team should never find itself out of the top 15....the future looks brighter than it ever has for this program.

[CU Tiger]

Went and watched Clemson handle SC last night and now headed to Jacksonville for a little gator Bowling

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Glad to see the Illini keep playing well. Helps the old RPI for Mizzou.

The Arkansas win is good for that program, but there's no way in hell that Oklahoma should have ever been ranked #4 in the nation. They really didn't react well at all in their first road game last night. They're a good team, but they're not top 5 good. Top 15 is probably a better assessment.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by watravaler

Yeah, a 13-1 Illinois team should never find itself out of the top 15....the future looks brighter than it ever has for this program.

Brighter than a national championship game? Sorry, I'm not buying that.

[hoopsguy]

I think the thought behind that is the following:
1.) The current sophomore class (7 players) looks good this year. McCamey, Davis, Legion, and Tisdale are all guys that are providing value right now and Legion is probably the only one who has any chance of being an early-entry candidate.
2.) The incoming class of freshmen (HS seniors now) is ranked around 10th, depending on the poll
3.) The class behind that is ranked top 5, with a pair of top-25 recruits in the mix. Having those types of talents trying to blend in with what should already be a deep roster has Illini fans very excited about the future
4.) The class of 2011 (HS sophs) is potentially the deepest class in Illinois history, or at least as far back as people have tracked this kind of stuff. The class that is currently the standard bearer had Isiah Thomas, Mark Aguirre, and several other future NBA players. Illinois already has secured a commit from the top-ranked PG in the state and is rumored to be in good shape with a number of other highly regarded in-state players
5.) Illini fans (most of them, anyway) have always felt that Weber was a good coach. It was the recruiting that was problematic, but that seems to have been shored up over the last 18 months.

So there is no reason to think that this team should be mentioned in the same breath as the '05 club, the '89 club, or even the better Bill Self clubs from earlier this decade. But the outlook for the next 5+ years looks really, really good at this moment in time.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I think the thought behind that is the following:
1.) The current sophomore class (7 players) looks good this year. McCamey, Davis, Legion, and Tisdale are all guys that are providing value right now and Legion is probably the only one who has any chance of being an early-entry candidate.
2.) The incoming class of freshmen (HS seniors now) is ranked around 10th, depending on the poll
3.) The class behind that is ranked top 5, with a pair of top-25 recruits in the mix. Having those types of talents trying to blend in with what should already be a deep roster has Illini fans very excited about the future
4.) The class of 2011 (HS sophs) is potentially the deepest class in Illinois history, or at least as far back as people have tracked this kind of stuff. The class that is currently the standard bearer had Isiah Thomas, Mark Aguirre, and several other future NBA players. Illinois already has secured a commit from the top-ranked PG in the state and is rumored to be in good shape with a number of other highly regarded in-state players
5.) Illini fans (most of them, anyway) have always felt that Weber was a good coach. It was the recruiting that was problematic, but that seems to have been shored up over the last 18 months.

So there is no reason to think that this team should be mentioned in the same breath as the '05 club, the '89 club, or even the better Bill Self clubs from earlier this decade. But the outlook for the next 5+ years looks really, really good at this moment in time.

Once again, I'd note that relying on class ranking for incoming recruiting classes is a very dangerous business, especially when you're talking about kids who are still 16 years old. There are so many things that can change in two years. It's not uncommon at all for kids ranked in the top 5 or 25 of their sophmore class to be out of the top 100 by the time they graduate. Best right now to just enjoy the current team and worry about the future when it finally arrives.

[timmynausea]

I should mention that West Virginia beat Ohio State by 28 in Columbus this weekend. This was without starting PG Joe Mazzulla, who may be done for the year with a shoulder injury, and backup SG Jonnie West (Jerry's son) who's out indefinitely with a broken bone in his foot.

Though mostly young, this is probably the most talent WVU has had in my lifetime. Unfortunately, I think the injuries in the backcourt (and lack of a true center) will really catch up against the conference schedule.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

I should mention that West Virginia beat Ohio State by 28 in Columbus this weekend. This was without starting PG Joe Mazzulla, who may be done for the year with a shoulder injury, and backup SG Jonnie West (Jerry's son) who's out indefinitely with a broken bone in his foot.

Though mostly young, this is probably the most talent WVU has had in my lifetime. Unfortunately, I think the injuries in the backcourt (and lack of a true center) will really catch up against the conference schedule.

I read about that on Club Trillion. It's a blog written by a walk-on player on OSU. Pretty amusing read if you haven't seen it before.........

Club Trillion

[mckerney]

Gophers tip off against Michigan State soon. Hopefully they can open Big Ten play with wins over MSU and OSU this week to move to 14-0.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I read about that on Club Trillion. It's a blog written by a walk-on player on OSU. Pretty amusing read if you haven't seen it before.........

Club Trillion

hah, thanks for the link, that guy is pretty funny.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Once again, I'd note that relying on class ranking for incoming recruiting classes is a very dangerous business, especially when you're talking about kids who are still 16 years old. There are so many things that can change in two years. It's not uncommon at all for kids ranked in the top 5 or 25 of their sophmore class to be out of the top 100 by the time they graduate. Best right now to just enjoy the current team and worry about the future when it finally arrives.

Just trying to put into perspective why a fan might say that the program appears to be in great shape right now.

I'm very much enjoying the way that the current team is playing. They are not national championship caliber, but right now the team seems to be better than the sum of their parts. That always makes for a fun fan experience.

[rjolley]

Penn State up 59-57 over Northwestern with 4.4 seconds left on ESPN2.

Northwestern has hit 2 big 3's, the last after PSU went 1-1 on free throws.

PSU at the line with 3.9 left.

PSU make 2 FTs and that's the game. PSU comes back to win after being down double figures in the second half.

PSU is 12-2. They're playing as well as the my teams 20 years ago (man, I'm getting old).

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by rjolley

Penn State up 59-57 over Northwestern with 4.4 seconds left on ESPN2.

Northwestern has hit 2 big 3's, the last after PSU went 1-1 on free throws.

PSU at the line with 3.9 left.

PSU make 2 FTs and that's the game. PSU comes back to win after being down double figures in the second half.

PSU is 12-2. They're playing as well as the my teams 20 years ago (man, I'm getting old).

Your narrative here gives me a headache. I think I will cease and desist trying to understand it.

[MJ4H]

Not enough video evidence in this thread. Arkansas only highlights from last night's win over OU (please notice the return of Bud Walton being freaking LOUD, and how awesome Courtney Fortson is, thanks).

[Radii]

UNC beats Nevada by 23 on the road to close out 2008. Their first ACC game is Sunday when they host Boston College. Their next big test comes January 11th when they go on the road to play #6 Wake Forest.


With losses by UConn and Oklahoma, I expect 3 of the top 5 teams in the next poll to be from the ACC, possibly 3 of the top 4, depending on how high up Georgetown jumps following their win over UConn.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Your narrative here gives me a headache. I think I will cease and desist trying to understand it.

hahahaha Didn't think it was that bad.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The rich get richer. Longhorns pick up Jai Lucas on waivers from Florida.........

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_r...er?eref=fromSI

[hoopsguy]

Pittsburgh has just manhandled Georgetown inside, in a double-digit win at Georgetown.

Do they have anyone who can consistently dial up the three pointer? I thought they looked very patient on offense today, and Blair was really terrific inside, but I wonder about the Final Four potential of a team that does not include the three point shot in their offensive arsenal.

Still, a lot of fun watching this Pitt team play. Experienced, athletic, patient, physical - there is a lot to like there.

[MJ4H]

Arkansas struggling in a trap game. North Texas, decent team, visiting Alltel Arena in Little Rock (away from home for Arkansas--don't generally play well there), game sandwiched in between monster home games against Oklahoma and Texas. Currently down 53-50 early in the second half.

Sigh.

[MJ4H]

k nm Arkansas up 16 now.

[Radii]

Two more top 25 teams go down today as Kansas beats #18 Tennessee and St John's beats #10 Notre Dame.

[MacroGuru]

BYU is giving #6 Wake Forest a run for the money right now...It's 84 - 82 for Wake with 3 minutes left.

[Radii]

North Carolina is being challenged for the first time this season. Boston College has played a great first half and has the lead 46-40 at halftime.