Werewolf LXIII - Fall of the Elementals (Game Over - Avatars Win!)

[Swaggs]

Sounds like folks were busy last night.

My action did not give me much to share, although it did work. Hopefully, it will be helpful down the road.

[Lathum]

hoops- sndvls altered cronins powers. not his own.

[Swaggs]

I'm a little curious about SnDvls.

I think he and hoops were interesting targets for last night, unless they were scanned by a seer.

Hoops, was your action on SnDvls something like a spy or what?

[hoopsguy]

Thanks, Lathum. Updated with that change and also info from Swaggs.

If anyone sees other info from posts that should be included here, please chime in. I'll start diving into vote thoughts once everyone has checked in and we have as much info as people are willing to share.

Night 1:
BK - nothing to report
Hoops - sent Ethereal Servant to view SnDvls. Had ritual performed on him by ???
Clap - nothing to report
*Path -
JE -
*Saldana -
Lathum - visited by ???
Swaggs - acted, not much to share
Cronin - powers altered by SnDvls
Heinz - did not use ability
*Schmidty -
*MrW -
SnDvls - altered Cronin's powers, viewed by Hoops

* = have not posted during Day 2

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Hoops, was your action on SnDvls something like a spy or what?

I had an ethereal servant - I sent him to spy on SnDvls. He was able to report back to me on SnDvls actions, including that he targeted Cronin with his "alter powers" ritual.

I'm holding back a couple of details on the ethereal servant because I believe it could potentially be helpful later in the game for some cross-vouching purposes between Elementals. However, does the stuff I did divulge sufficiently answer your question?

[Swaggs]

That makes sense. I just wasn't sure of the etheral servant's power.

[path12]

Someone visited me and altered one of my powers. I have no idea who.

Also wondering why Lathum sounds so sure about hoops. I can make a guess but don't know if I'm on target.

[Barkeep49]

In CW's last game there were parallel powers on the good and bad side, so it's entirely possible for a bad guy to have a similar or identical power to a good guy. I think that's important with this whole etheral discussion.

[hoopsguy]

Path, are those two separate events (visited = one, altered power = two) or the same event?

Path, if you think Lathum is a seer and viewed me as bad then why wouldn't he say it? Because he doesn't want to out himself as the seer? Think about the mechanics here a little bit more ...

If your guess is in another direction then I would be interested to hear where you are going with this.

[Lathum]

I have no special insight.


I just think Hoops is the most logical choice thus far.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

In CW's last game there were parallel powers on the good and bad side, so it's entirely possible for a bad guy to have a similar or identical power to a good guy. I think that's important with this whole etheral discussion.

Yep, but why would the Avatar's need a spy? They know who we are, so that isn't it. As a way to get information on Elemental's powers, so they can target better the following night? Possible, but the spy ability certainly seems to have more value for Elementals. I would be surprised, based on my fully understanding of the role, if this particular power was duplicated across both teams.

If there is another elemental out there with this power then they do know that there are additional options associated with the servant. I'm not inclined, at this point, to comment on the utility of those powers (for either faction).

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Path, are those two separate events (visited = one, altered power = two) or the same event?

Path, if you think Lathum is a seer and viewed me as bad then why wouldn't he say it? Because he doesn't want to out himself as the seer? Think about the mechanics here a little bit more ....

One event, I was visited by someone who altered one of my powers.

As for Lathum/seer, I'm just going by his seeming certainty. I agree with you that the mechanics of the game don't warrant being secretive with views.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Lathum

that logic is flawed.

We have to sacrifice SOMEONE, don't we?

may as well sacrifice someone we could potentialy gain info from who has already used one of their powers.

The "already used one of their powers" argument doesn't make sense to me upon further review.

We don't know that the Avatars even have powers, at least not in the same sense that the Elementals do. For all we know, they are standard "wolves" and don't give a crap about the sign.

Especially in the case of someone using a power, and having its use vouched, I think that is actually a benefit to us in our analysis.

- I've stated I used my power on SnDvls, he can vouch for this.
- SnDvls stated he used his power, I've vouched for him using it on Cronin, Cronin has vouched that a power was used on him.

Those are the only instances we've got so far where someone can vouch for the usage of powers in this game.

If the Avatars even have "powers" in this game, what is the likelihood that someone can both use a nighttime power and perform a nighttime kill? I don't know the answer to it, but for my own thought process I'm discounting the likelihood of people with confirmed night actions as people who were the "killer".

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

At least half of the active players have been in the thread in the last 30 minutes. I still haven't heard anyone state that they have a 2/2 split on powers.

None of mine are explicitly identified as day or night, but there are two that look like they'd be more appropriate to use during the day phase.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

None of mine are explicitly identified as day or night, but there are two that look like they'd be more appropriate to use during the day phase.

then you only have night action powers per the rules and per my very specific PM about when I can perform the action.

[Mr. Wednesday]

And nothing happened to me last night. I did not use my squid power, and to the best of my knowledge nothing was used on me.

[hoopsguy]

For the other people reading, do you have any confusion in your PMs about what are day/night actions?

I don't really want this to turn into a "hunt for the guy who doesn't know the PM" game, but personally it is pretty clear what actions fall under day/night cycle.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

then you only have night action powers per the rules and per my very specific PM about when I can perform the action.

The rules don't say that.

There is one power that appears to be more useful during the day, but if I wish to use it I'll clarify with our esteemed GM exactly how it works.

[hoopsguy]

The day phase starts, and the sign of the Yak comes up. Assuming Ed has not already used his Yak power, he may use that power that day/night (some powers are day use). Remember, every power is a one shot use, so once it's used, it's gone.

This is the only thing I saw in the rules that speaks to day/night use. It was my PM that made it very clear which powers were used in what cycle.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

For the other people reading, do you have any confusion in your PMs about what are day/night actions?

I don't really want this to turn into a "hunt for the guy who doesn't know the PM" game, but personally it is pretty clear what actions fall under day/night cycle.

I have one power that clearly takes effect in the night cycle, one action that I prefer not to go into any detail about, one power that I'm very unclear about the precise time I would use it and effect from using it, one power that I'm fairly certain would be used during the night cycle.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

The rules don't say that.

There is one power that appears to be more useful during the day, but if I wish to use it I'll clarify with our esteemed GM exactly how it works.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

This is the only thing I saw in the rules that speaks to day/night use. It was my PM that made it very clear which powers were used in what cycle.

this is the same rule I'm referencing that hoops did and again my PM

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, I'm inquiring with CW about the one that I'm very uncertain about.

[Mr. Wednesday]

OK, looks like everything is at night for me.

[Barkeep49]

3 of my 4 powers are clearly one cycle or the other. One is ambigous. I see it as quite possible that a person could end up with 4 ambigous powers, though I am a little suspicious of it.

[hoopsguy]

I honestly don't think that MrW is coming at it this way as an Avatar - why draw attention to yourself?

However, CW had a very simple way of differentiating day/night in my PM and I wonder why he would not have replicated this across each and every one of the PMs. I'm dropping it as a line of inquiry at this point before it crosses even more into meta-gaming stuff, which was absolutely not the intent with the original question (split of day/night actions) I posed to SnDvls last night.

[Lathum]

I think it is possible CW altered the wording on each PM.

I know I do that when I GM a game

[st.cronin]

There is no ambiguity in my pm whatsoever about when I can use a power. Its very explicitly whether each is a night/day action.

I don't understand why Barkeep is voting for me. All I ever said about hoops was that I was tempted to vote for him because of Cal Ripken, and then never found a good reason ... therefore I'm bad? Am I supposed to be protecting hoops?

[Lathum]

Cronin.

I think you are A OK!!!

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Cronin.

I think you are A OK!!!

good

[Barkeep49]

It was the hoops thing combined with the "I'll move my vote if there's tie. Gosh there's a tie, but I'm not going to move my vote" one two combo.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

All I ever said about hoops was that I was tempted to vote for him because of Cal Ripken

I can't believe that people are considering votes against me because Ripken is my favorite baseball player of all time.

Still no word from Schmidty or Saldana. I'm probably going to start working towards a vote in another hour or so; hopefully they show up sometime soon.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I can't believe that people are considering votes against me because Ripken is my favorite baseball player of all time.

Still no word from Schmidty or Saldana. I'm probably going to start working towards a vote in another hour or so; hopefully they show up sometime soon.

Being a nats fan from DC, I see that as a perfectly reasonable choice!

[jeheinz72]

At least one of my powers says (DAY ACTION) by it. If that helps.

I'm tossing a vote out there, it's that danged persistence by him that always has me worried. Is he being pushy or fishing to pin guilt?

Vote Lathum

...for now.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I'm tossing a vote out there, it's that danged persistence by him that always has me worried. Is he being pushy or fishing to pin guilt?

well your instincts about that served you so well last game.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Lathum

well your instincts about that served you so well last game.

Eventually I'll be right!

Basically I don't like the "Let's run hoops across the fire until we find a plausible enough reason to vote him out" gambit. I'm just not seeing the guilt like you are. Doesn't mean it's not there, but I think given what you're working with you are putting considerable more effort into getting him lynched than you should.

Something doesn't seem right about that.

[hoopsguy]

Same for me, Heinz. Which is why I wondered why Warlord would vary this - it seems like a simple way to distinguish within the PMs. Who knows, maybe he came up with it for some of the later PMs he sent?

[hoopsguy]

Oops, few posts went up before I replied. I was talking to Post #333 that says the following:

At least one of my powers says (DAY ACTION) by it. If that helps.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Basically I don't like the "Let's run hoops across the fire until we find a plausible enough reason to vote him out" gambit. I'm just not seeing the guilt like you are. Doesn't mean it's not there, but I think given what you're working with you are putting considerable more effort into getting him lynched than you should.

Something doesn't seem right about that.

I haven't put considerable effort into getting him lynched. It's not like I have attempted to round up a posse. Plus if you haven't noticed I have yet to vote so we can gain additional info.

I am mearly saying Hoops is the best candidate IMO.

[Schmidty]

I'm awake now, and catching up on things.

[Coffee Warlord]

We're getting a little close to flat out comparing PM copy now. Watch that.

And, there was no intention of being ambigious regarding what powers for either side are day actions, and what are night actions. If it says (DAY ACTION) next to it, it's a day action. If it doesn't say that, it's not.

If you feel like you have a power which is more fitting as a day action, feel free to PM me, but there was absolutely no ambiguity intended in that aspect.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Lathum

well your instincts about that served you so well last game.

If it makes you feel any better, he just made the entire board look like fools in our non FOFC game!

[Schmidty]

Oh, by the way, I trust Lathum. Other than that, I'm not sure what to do as far as a vote.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Oh, by the way, I trust Lathum. Other than that, I'm not sure what to do as far as a vote.

Care to share why?

[Schmidty]

I'm going to go eat and do some shopping, so I'll be in and out for the next few hours.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Care to share why?

Not right now.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

If it makes you feel any better, he just made the entire board look like fools in our non FOFC game!

Yeah I may have to print that one out for good memories...

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

We're getting a little close to flat out comparing PM copy now. Watch that.

And, there was no intention of being ambigious regarding what powers for either side are day actions, and what are night actions. If it says (DAY ACTION) next to it, it's a day action. If it doesn't say that, it's not.

If you feel like you have a power which is more fitting as a day action, feel free to PM me, but there was absolutely no ambiguity intended in that aspect.

so what does this mean for Mr. Wednesday?

[hoopsguy]

I took it to mean either:
a.) all night actions
b.) MrW was pulling stuff out of his ass when he had no pressure on him to do so earlier today

I leaned towards A when thinking this through earlier, fwiw.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Care to share why?

Wasn't Lathum scanned last night as well? Wouldn't this be that answer?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Lathum

so what does this mean for Mr. Wednesday?

It means all my actions are initiated at night and resolve by or on the changeover to the next day.