Duke lacrosse thugs?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BrianD

There are all kinds of documents and records that never make the mainstream media.

I'm not sure whether you mean documents that aren't part of the public record or if you mean documents that are available but don't make the news.

If the former, we're kind of at apples and oranges I think.
If the latter, that brings the question around to something like "what is news" and in this instance, I don't believe there's any reasonable question (given the level of interest it has generated) that this was indeed newsworthy.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

But once something is in the public record, can't the media do with it what it will? I could see (but not agree with) a rule that said that most information involving arrests and indictments had to be kept confidental.

But I can't see a rule saying that the public has access to it--but the "mainstream media" should not report it. The reason things like the latest crop reports are not big news isn't because the media can't broadcast them. It is because no one in the public really cares enough to know (except, of course, for Randolph and Mortimer Duke). The fact that this case is being tried in the media is because people are interested in knowing about it (how many pages is this thread) and you can sell papers reporting it.

Now, I will grant you that the participant's lives have been changed forever by the way in which they have been portrayed in the press during this case. But I think that that gets more to journalistic ethics (is that an oxymoron yet?) than anything the law can or should change.

Of course the media can do what they want with public information currently, but that gets us to the situation where we are now. We have an accusation of a crime and everyone involved has had their lives ruined. The media folks seem to be very intersted in what this story will do to their bottom line, and not very interested if they ruin any innocent lives in the process.

I don't know what the fix to this problem would be, but to use the First Amendment as justification for making a profit while potentially infringing on the rights of other individuals seems wrong to me.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'm not sure whether you mean documents that aren't part of the public record or if you mean documents that are available but don't make the news.

If the former, we're kind of at apples and oranges I think.
If the latter, that brings the question around to something like "what is news" and in this instance, I don't believe there's any reasonable question (given the level of interest it has generated) that this was indeed newsworthy.

My point was that names of those arrested could be made public record without making them huge media events. There is certainly a big business in reporting these events, but at what cost to those involved...or worse, those accused but really not involved?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I don't know what the fix to this problem would be, but to use the First Amendment as justification for making a profit while potentially infringing on the rights of other individuals seems wrong to me.

Just like it seems wrong that guys who are found with stashes of guns and drugs end up getting off because the evidence is excluded by the 4th Amendment. Or how it seems wrong that those Enron guys can hide behind the 5th Amendment. Or how it seems wrong that a tired soldier can't just crash where he wants because of the Third Amendment (OK, maybe not so much that last one )

The point is that it is generally people who are doing . . . unpopular things who end up getting the most benefit out of the Bill of Rights. Those tend to be the guys who the majority of us would tend to shut up/punish/lock away/etc. if we could. No one wants to stop the journalist trying to get to the bottom of the important story. While I suspect most of us want to strangle whoever the hell it is that keeps shoving Paris Hilton down our throats. But the First Amendment applies to both of them--and is more likely to come up in the case of the guy who we try to stop because he is doing something that we think is . . . wrong.

I, personally, think that all of the rights protected by the Bill of Rights need to be defended--despite their bad effects. But I will be the first to admit that there are a lot of bad effects.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BrianD

My point was that names of those arrested could be made public record without making them huge media events. There is certainly a big business in reporting these events, but at what cost to those involved...or worse, those accused but really not involved?

Okay, let's suppose for a minute that the guys are guilty.
Do you think the public is served by not reporting the story?
I mean, in theory, rich-white-boys-abuse-poor-black-victim is something that a community probably should be aware of.

Or let's suppose for a moment that the entire story is fabricated.
Do you believe the public is served by not knowing how easily false allegations can be made?

And, given the homogenous nature of the nation in some regards, do you think that, say, Phoenix is served by not knowing about either scenario above simply because it happened in Durham instead of Phoenix?

I'm really not ripping what you're trying to say here Brian, honest to goodness I'm not. I agree that there's definitely room for improvement in how situations like this are handled by everyone involved -- the media, the participants on the legal side, and most of all the public at large. I just don't believe that restricting the media's ability to report something of this sort is part of the solution.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Just like it seems wrong that guys who are found with stashes of guns and drugs end up getting off because the evidence is excluded by the 4th Amendment. Or how it seems wrong that those Enron guys can hide behind the 5th Amendment. Or how it seems wrong that a tired soldier can't just crash where he wants because of the Third Amendment (OK, maybe not so much that last one )

The point is that it is generally people who are doing . . . unpopular things who end up getting the most benefit out of the Bill of Rights. Those tend to be the guys who the majority of us would tend to shut up/punish/lock away/etc. if we could. No one wants to stop the journalist trying to get to the bottom of the important story. While I suspect most of us want to strangle whoever the hell it is that keeps shoving Paris Hilton down our throats. But the First Amendment applies to both of them--and is more likely to come up in the case of the guy who we try to stop because he is doing something that we think is . . . wrong.

I, personally, think that all of the rights protected by the Bill of Rights need to be defended--despite their bad effects. But I will be the first to admit that there are a lot of bad effects.

I thought these rights were supposed to exist only until they start infringing on the rights of others.

If it turns out that the girl in this case made up the whole story, what happens to the players whose lives may be ruined? They could probably sue her for slander or somesuch, but it is really the media (with the help of the DA) who whipped up a frenzy of public opinion against them.

[astrosfan64]

If charges are never brought up, these guys have suffered an inconvience. Most of america will forget about this in a week.

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://sports.myway.com/news/04122006/v6734.html

Boosters and others with ties to Duke lacrosse hire big-dollar Washington lawyer

Apr 12, 5:19 PM (ET)

DURHAM, N.C. (AP) - A small group of boosters and others close to the Duke University lacrosse team has hired President Clinton's former lawyer as part of an aggressive public relations effort to argue that the players did not rape a woman at an off-campus party.

Bob Bennett, a former federal prosecutor and Washington attorney who represented Clinton in the Paula Jones sexual harassment case, is serving as a spokesman for a group calling itself the Committee for Fairness to Duke Families.

He is not expected to represent any players, but he has joined the chorus of those who fear for the reputation of the team and the university.

"It is unfortunate that members of the Duke community, players and families are being judged before all the facts are in," Bennett said in a statement. "A lot of innocent young people and the families are being hurt, and unfortunately this situation is being abused by people with separate agendas. It is grossly unfair, and cool heads must prevail."

The group has asked to meet with Duke President Richard Brodhead. Neither Brodhead nor Bennett returned calls for comment.

No charges have been filed while District Attorney Mike Nifong presses on with his investigation of allegations that a stripper was gang-raped at a team party March 13. Earlier this week, lawyers for the players said that DNA tests failed to connect any members of the 47-man team to the alleged attack.

The players' parents - initially silent - have also started to speak out.

Brian Loftus, who has two sons on the team, wondered Wednesday why Nifong was continuing to press ahead with the case.

"I don't understand it," said Loftus, of Syosset, N.Y.

As he has for days, Nifong refused a request for an interview. He is running for re-election in May and was scheduled to take part in a candidate forum Wednesday evening.

The family of Devon Sherwood, a freshman goalie and the team's only black member, said the DNA results should have marked the end of the investigation of the highly ranked team. The Blue Devils played for last year's national title and were considered a favorite this season before Duke canceled the season.

"I'm just glad that that ordeal is over with and hopefully as we progress with the case, it will show that all of the players will be exonerated ... of any wrongdoing at all," said Devon Sherwood's father, Chuck, of Freeport, N.Y.

Devon Sherwood was not tested because he is black, and the alleged victim, a black woman, had said her attackers were white.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Ivy schools do accept transfers, but potential transfers have to have been admissable as high school seniors (in other words, if you didn't have the grades and test scores the first time around, you will not get in as a transfer even if you did well academically as a college student. Silly rule, but that's the Ivy League for you).

I don't think that's true for regular students. Columbia, for example, recruits transfer students from some of the local Junior Colleges.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I don't think that's true for regular students. Columbia, for example, recruits transfer students from some of the local Junior Colleges.

Oh, I should have been more specific -- I described the transfer rules for athletes. Regular students are not bound by those restrictions. And I also forgot to add that all Ivies accept transfers, except for Princeton...

[illinifan999]

I bought a Duke Lacrosse shirt today.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Boosters and others with ties to Duke lacrosse hire big-dollar Washington lawyer.

What was that you were saying about perfect villians again?

[Vinatieri for Prez]

The press is not to blame. The public (who jump to irrational conclusions based on journalism that only accurately reports allegations and denials of the parties) and their own biases are to blame.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

The press is not to blame. The public (who jump to irrational conclusions based on journalism that only accurately reports allegations and denials of the parties) and their own biases are to blame.

Because the media didn't jump to irrational conclusions.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

The press is not to blame. The public (who jump to irrational conclusions based on journalism that only accurately reports allegations and denials of the parties) and their own biases are to blame.

Were you actually able to type that with a straight face?

[SirFozzie]

wow.. they can stop digging holes in this case now, please..

DURHAM, N.C. -- A woman who claims she was sexually assaulted by members of Duke University's lacrosse team was described as "just passed-out drunk" by one of the first police officers to see her, according to a recording of radio traffic released by Durham police on Thursday and obtained by The Associated Press.

The conversation between the officer and a police dispatcher took place about 1:30 a.m. March 14, about five minutes after a grocery store security guard called 911 to report a woman in the parking lot who would not get out of someone else's car.

The officer gave the dispatcher the police code for an intoxicated person and said the woman was unconscious. When asked whether she needed medical help, the officer said: "She's breathing and appears to be fine. She's not in distress. She's just passed-out drunk."

The black woman, a 27-year-old dancer and college student, told police she was sexually assaulted and beaten by three white men around midnight at an off-campus party thrown by Duke's lacrosse team. The racially charged allegations have led Duke to cancel the highly ranked team's season and accept the resignation of its coach.

No charges have been filed, but district attorney Mike Nifong has said he believes a crime was committed. Attorneys for the players have said DNA tests failed to connect any players to the alleged attack, and they have urged Nifong to drop his investigation.

The radio recordings, obtained by the AP through a records request, are the first instance in which police or anyone connected with the investigation has said the woman appeared to be intoxicated.

Defense lawyers, however, have said time-stamped photographs taken by the players show that the accuser was drunk and had already suffered some injuries when she arrived at the house for the party.

The recording is consistent with "what I have seen of the photo evidence before," attorney Kerry Sutton said. Those photos, she said, showed that she was "way beyond where you would put somebody behind the wheel of a car."

The description of the woman's medical exam -- which Nifong has said is his basis for believing a rape occurred -- does not mention her being drunk. It states only that the woman's injuries and behavior were consistent with having been raped, sexually assaulted and having suffered a traumatic experience.

The woman has told police she and another dancer hired to dance at the party arrived at 11:30 p.m. March 13. The pair reportedly left the house a short time later, fearing for their safety. The accuser told police the two were coaxed back into the house with an apology, at which point they were separated. That's when she said she was dragged into a bathroom and sexually assaulted, beaten and choked for a half-hour.

At 12:53 a.m., police received a 911 call from a woman complaining that she had been called racial slurs by white men gathered outside the home where the party took place.

The defense has said it believes the second dancer at the party made that call. The 911 call from the grocery store security guard was placed at 1:22 a.m.

In it, the caller says, "Um, the problem is ... it's a lady in somebody else's car and she will not get out of their car. She's like, she's like intoxicated, drunk or something. She's, I mean, she won't get out of the car, period."

Police spokeswoman Kammie Michael declined to comment about the contents of the radio traffic.

The case has focused intense national scrutiny on Duke and the lacrosse players and has sparked protests on the elite private university's campus and elsewhere in Durham. The school last week canceled the highly ranked team's season and coach Mike Pressler resigned after the release of a vulgar and graphic e-mail sent by a team member shortly after the alleged assault.

Several of the defense attorneys say they expect the district attorney to ask a grand jury on Monday to issue charges in connection with allegations.

"Rest up on Sunday," Sutton said.

There has been no official word, however, on whether Nifong intends to present the allegations Monday. His next opportunity would come two weeks later.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Because the media didn't jump to irrational conclusions.

Please find me any major media outlet (not some blog) that said straight up the lacrosse team was guilty and/or the alleged victim was lying. All they did was report the allegations, the responses to those allegations, and the response of the public.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Were you actually able to type that with a straight face?

What part of his comment do you dispute? Media outlets actually tend to be very, very careful when they're discussing issues like this (Because of reputation and legal concerns). Sure, news outlets are trying to make a story as interesting as possible, but they can't and don't intentionally report things inaccurately, or state any kind of conclusions that aren't factually supported.

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by molson

What part of his comment do you dispute? Media outlets actually tend to be very, very careful when they're discussing issues like this (Because of reputation and legal concerns). Sure, news outlets are trying to make a story as interesting as possible, but they can't and don't intentionally report things inaccurately, or state any kind of conclusions that aren't factually supported.

LOL - next you are going to tell me that the media isn't liberal.

[clintl]

I have to agree with Viniateri. In the straight news stories I've seen, I think the press has responsibly printed the information available at the time.

If you're talking about columnists, perhaps that's a different story. But columnists are paid to write their analysis and opinions, not to report straight news.

[Chubby]

Basically every show on cable painted them as guilty. Of course they have to throw in the "allegations" word here and there but that was the slant they put on it.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Basically every show on cable painted them as guilty. Of course they have to throw in the "allegations" word here and there but that was the slant they put on it.

Yeah, some of them (like surprise surprise, Nancy Grace) were pretty bad. But I do think that ESPN has been pretty even-handed: they've been equal-opportunity in that they've also reported on details that aren't exactly favorable to the accuser.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Yeah, some of them (like surprise surprise, Nancy Grace) were pretty bad. But I do think that ESPN has been pretty even-handed: they've been equal-opportunity in that they've also reported on details that aren't exactly favorable to the accuser.

The true news reports have been balanced but most anything outside of nightly news or sports news shows have been slanted.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I don't count Nancy Grace and the like as credible places to get accurate newsreporting. That's what I meant by my comment. Shows like that are a scourge because there existence is solely to have people take completely opposite and shocking positions. I stand by my comment regarding major news outlets.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Basically every show on cable painted them as guilty. Of course they have to throw in the "allegations" word here and there but that was the slant they put on it.

Bad place to get your news. But I'd have to disagree that CNN or MSNBC painted them as guilty (other than the stupid "analyst" shows that are on those stations).

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Bad place to get your news. But I'd have to disagree that CNN or MSNBC painted them as guilty (other than the stupid "analyst" shows that are on those stations).

Last time I checked, all of these people are part of the "media", which last time I checked, is what we were talking about here.

[miami_fan]

DURHAM, N.C. -- A grand jury issued sealed indictments Monday against two members of the Duke University lacrosse team in connection with allegations that an exotic dancer was sexually assaulted last month at a team party, a defense attorney said.

"Today, two young men have been charged with crimes they did not commit," attorney Robert Ekstrand said in a statement. "This is a tragedy. For the two young men, an ordeal lies ahead. ... They are both innocent."

Ekstrand, who represents dozens of players, did not say which players were indicted or what charges they faced.

The grand jury adjourned around 2 p.m. Monday, handing up indictments a short time later to Superior Court Judge Ronald Stephens. A filing at the courthouse said the judge had sealed at least one indictment, citing a state law that allows an indictment to be "kept secret until the defendant is arrested or appears before the court."

A 27-year-old black woman told police she was attacked March 13 by three white men in a bathroom at a party held by the lacrosse team. Prosecutors have informed defense attorneys that the alleged victim has identified two players with 100 percent certainty and is 90 percent certain on a third player, ABC News reports.

At Duke, the university's chief spokesman said the school knew little about what had taken place in court Monday.

"We are aware that the district attorney made a presentation to the grand jury today, but we have no knowledge about the contents of his presentation," said John F. Burness, senior vice president for public affairs and government relations. "At this point we remain unclear about the precise status of this case and we must simply wait for news of today's proceedings.

"Until we have greater clarity it would be inappropriate to comment further."

The racially charged allegations have led to near daily protest rallies. The school canceled the highly ranked team's season and accepted the resignation of coach Mike Pressler after the release of a vulgar and graphic e-mail that was sent by a team member shortly after the alleged assault.

Defense attorneys have urged District Attorney Mike Nifong to drop the case, saying DNA tests failed to connect any of the 46 team members tested to the alleged victim.

Nifong has said 75 percent to 80 percent of rape prosecutions lack DNA evidence. According to court records, a medical examination of the woman found injuries consistent with sexual assault.

There were numerous conferences involving defense lawyers and members of the district attorney's office in hallways of the courthouse Monday morning. At several points during the day, Nifong declined to comment when asked about the case.

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Last time I checked, all of these people are part of the "media", which last time I checked, is what we were talking about here.

But that wasn't what I was talking about. And is what supported my idea that the public is more to blame for jumping to conclusions than the media.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

But that wasn't what I was talking about. And is what supported my idea that the public is more to blame for jumping to conclusions than the media.

You can't just pick and choose which parts of the media fit your argument.

There was a LARGE segment of the media, even if you claim (which i still am not sure i believe) that "journalists" did not jump to conclusions, much of the MEDIA did.... and unfortunately, much of this nation just believes what the media tells them (on both sides of the aisle).

[albionmoonlight]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/18/duke.rape/index.html

DURHAM, North Carolina (CNN) -- Two members of the Duke University lacrosse team were arrested and charged early Tuesday in connection with rape allegations leveled by a woman hired as a dancer at a team party, jail officials said.
Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty, both 20-year-old sophomores, have been charged with first-degree rape, first-degree forcible rape and kidnapping, the officials said. Bond was set for $400,000 for each man.
Deputies brought Seligmann and Finnerty to Durham County jail just before 5 a.m. ET.
Seligmann posted bond and left the jail, but Finnerty, who has been processed, has not done so yet. (Watch CNN's Jeffrey Toobin explain the legal options -- 2:15)
The News & Observer identified Seligmann as a student from Essex Falls, New Jersey, and Finnerty as a student from Garden City, New York.
A grand jury returned sealed indictments againstthe two Monday. Sealed indictments often are used when authorities believe the person charged is a flight risk.
Kirk Osborn, one of Seligmann's attorneys, said lawyers arranged the surrender of the two men early Tuesday.
"It's hard to put in words the unfairness and injustice," Osborn said. "We look forward [to] showing he is absolutely innocent as soon as we can."
A 27-year-old student at North Carolina Central University told police three men raped and beat her March 13 at an off-campus partythrown by Duke lacrosse players.
She and another woman were hired to perform as dancers there. The case has inflamed racial and economic divisions in Durham, which is home to both the accuser's historically black public university and the elite Duke. She is African-American; the accused are white.
The allegations have resulted in the cancellation of the lacrosse season, the resignation of the team's coach, Mike Pressler, and public scrutiny of what Duke President Richard Brodhead called the "history of boorish behavior and underage drinking" among players.
Court documents filed in the case have said a medical examination of the accuser showed signs consistent with sexual assault. DNA samples from the players failed to match material collected by investigators, defense attorneys hired by some of the players said last week.
The defense lawyers also said photos taken at the party show the woman was injured before she arrived.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

The case has inflamed racial and economic divisions in Durham, which is home to both the accuser's historically black public university and the elite Duke.

This statement is striking me as biased. it's factually correct, but to me the intent is to contrast the accuser's background against the accused and have the reader sympathize with the accuser. I may be reading a bit much, but it just seems wrong to phrase it like this.

[Young Drachma]

Not every channel has painted them guilty. FOX is basically saying they are innocent, MSNBC has leaned towards "why is this happening at all because there is no real evidence," and so..it's only been CNN that's come off on the other side of this, from what I've seen.

I try to generally avoid the news though on TV, because the stuff is so lacking any moral integrity that you have to wonder what these people are smoking sometimes.

[Subby]

I searched but didn't see that this news item about Finnerty (from the News-Observer) had ever been posted:

Published: Apr 06, 2006 12:30 AM
Modified: Apr 06, 2006 05:37 AM

Player in tussle in D.C.

Finnerty, two friends arrested.

Samiha Khanna, Staff Writer

On the same day Duke University lacrosse player Collin H. Finnerty was ordered to provide DNA samples in a rape investigation, he was in Washington to face charges that he assaulted a man last fall.

Court records show that Finnerty, 19, and two friends were arrested early Nov. 5. Finnerty was charged with simple assault.

A man told a police officer who was driving by The Georgetown Inn on Wisconsin Avenue about 2:30 a.m. Nov. 5 that Finnerty and his co-defendants assaulted him, court documents said.

The man said he was minding his own business when the three men started picking on him. The man told them to stop "calling him gay and ... derogatory names." Then they attacked him, he said, "busting his lip and bruising his chin," court records say.

The accuser was not anyone that Finnerty knew, said his attorney, Steven J. McCool of Washington.

Finnerty and the two other men, one a Georgetown University lacrosse player and the other a former player for Providence College in Rhode Island, were charged with simple assault, records show.

Finnerty was ordered to perform 25 hours of community service in Washington by fall, McCool said. If he performs the service and avoids new arrests, the charges will be dropped, McCool said.

[Solecismic]

This is going to get much, much uglier locally. I've lived in a lot of places in my life, and Durham is the one which stands out as being the most racially charged.

You have the "triangle" of three major universities in a very small region, which has brought in a huge amount of hi-tech industry (most of the workers coming from outside the state). And you have a couple of cores of extreme black poverty - downtown Durham is a wasteland and Raleigh has its bad areas. Mix in some rural whites who believe everything Jesse Helms says is gospel and you have an area with a lot of conflict.

This trial isn't going to settle anything, and the constant media attention is going to spark a lot more conflict.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

I don't count Nancy Grace and the like as credible places to get accurate newsreporting. That's what I meant by my comment. Shows like that are a scourge because there existence is solely to have people take completely opposite and shocking positions. I stand by my comment regarding major news outlets.

I always think I've stumbled across some second-rate televangelist when I see her on.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chris

I searched but didn't see that this news item about Finnerty (from the News-Observer) had ever been posted:

There is also

Originally Posted by http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/18/duke.rape/index.html[/quote

Sources close to the investigation said Tuesday that the defense will present evidence -- including ATM receipts -- that neither Seligmann, 20, nor Finnerty, 19, were at the team party at the time the alleged rape took place.
A cab driver allegedly carried one of the young men to an ATM, where a security camera captured his picture, the sources said, and the other man was reportedly at a restaurant.
"The two that they indicted had no contact with this woman whatsoever," (a defense lawyer) said. "We are shocked, absolutely shocked. We always thought she would pick out someone who at least had a conversation with her."

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by wade moore

You can't just pick and choose which parts of the media fit your argument.

There was a LARGE segment of the media, even if you claim (which i still am not sure i believe) that "journalists" did not jump to conclusions, much of the MEDIA did.... and unfortunately, much of this nation just believes what the media tells them (on both sides of the aisle).

Alright, I disagree with the contention that a "large" segment of the media jumped to conclusions, but I am willing to relent and agree that "some" media jumped to conclusions, but not the main news reporting organizations. I still stand by my position however that the public shares more of the blame.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

A cab driver allegedly carried one of the young men to an ATM

Who takes a cab to an ATM?

9:30 - $10 cab ride to ATM
9:40 - Withdraw $20
9.42 - $10 cab ride home
10:00 - Look in wallet, wonder why you never have any money.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Who takes a cab to an ATM?

9:30 - $10 cab ride to ATM
9:40 - Withdraw $20
9.42 - $10 cab ride home
10:00 - Look in wallet, wonder why you never have any money.

Maybe the cab driver drives really fast and plays hokey carney music while he's driving. In that way, it could be like a budget trip to Busch Gardens.

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Who takes a cab to an ATM?

9:30 - $10 cab ride to ATM
9:40 - Withdraw $20
9.42 - $10 cab ride home
10:00 - Look in wallet, wonder why you never have any money.

Dude if you are a rich duke kid, you are probably getting $200 bucks at the ATM so you can get a decent looking stripper instead of the crack ho that showed up.

That would be an excellent story. Look judge, that chick is nasty. I'm a pretty wealthy and I knew I could find a nice looking stripper if I just went out and got some more money. We sure learned our lesson about being cheap...

[Young Drachma]

This whole case is just troubling. On so many levels.

[bulletsponge]

That would be an excellent story. Look judge, that chick is nasty. I'm a pretty wealthy and I knew I could find a nice looking stripper if I just went out and got some more money. We sure learned our lesson about being cheap...

you get what you pay for i guess

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by Omnivore

This whole case is just troubling. On so many levels.

agreed

[Julio Riddols]

Its level 6 that gives me the most trouble though... That damn big pile of bullshit right at the end keeps killing me.

I think this story will end up with her basically being considered a liar by the entire world and her ending up on the surreal life with Omarossa and Mr. T.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Looks like the DA narrowly escaped a runoff and won his re-election bid.

Durham District Attorney
(58 of 58 precincts reporting)
Keith A. Bishop 3,288 13.3%
Freda Black 10,269 41.5%
Mike Nifong 11,168 45.2%

45% is enough to win outright, as the rules there say that a candidate needs to receive more than 40 percent of the vote to win outright.Otherwise, the second-place finisher can demand a second primary

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Looks like the DA narrowly escaped a runoff and won his re-election bid.
[/i]

Maybe now he can relax and not feel like he has to break legal ethics rules in a desperate attempt to impress his constituents.

[Swaggs]

I haven't read through this entire thread and do not know how far into the Durham DA race it has gotten, but just wanted to say that Freda Black getting a good chunk of the vote is not necessarily just a vote against Nifong. She is pretty high profile around Durham (and probably legal circles) for her work on the Michael Peterson (the other Peterson ) murder case.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by CBS News

CBS News obtained an exclusive copy of the entire identification report. In it, the accuser identifies one of her alleged attackers, the one expected to be indicted today, saying he looks "just like him without the mustache." The accuser said the person had a mustache.

But defense sources tell CBS News there are pictures of this player both the day before and the day after the party without a mustache. The defense will also likely question the alleged victim's credibility. For example when she was presented with the picture of the other player, whose inconclusive DNA was found under her fingernail, she said she didn't recognize him. In all, she identified four people she believed looked like her attackers.

What am I missing here? This woman's testimony wouldn't hold up to even ten seconds of cross-examination. Is the media just spinning this, or has Nifong lost his mind?

I lived in Durham for three years. As a college-educated male, I'm just glad I never ran afoul of the law by being at a party where someone didn't have a good time.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

What am I missing here? This woman's testimony wouldn't hold up to even ten seconds of cross-examination. Is the media just spinning this, or has Nifong lost his mind?

I lived in Durham for three years. As a college-educated male, I'm just glad I never ran afoul of the law by being at a party where someone didn't have a good time.

In general, a "lineup" in which the alleged victim is shown a list of photos of the guys on the team (and only of the guys on the team) and asked, "which of these guys did it?" is horrible police work for what I hope are obvious reasons.

To my knowledge, that is what happened in this case.

Right now, it looks really bad for the prosecution--assuming that the media is giving us anything like the proper perspective on it.

[Maple Leafs]

What does "inconclusive DNA" mean?