The Official NHL Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Uh, since when has the NHL allowed players to settle things themselves? In a funny way your argument is making the complete opposite point than I think you meant to make.

Honestly, the instigator rule is never going to go away and players are never going to be accountable, so fuck it. First time I think I've ever agreed they should just ban fighting and then all the people who don't want to watch hockey can find another excuse to not watch. Meanwhile maybe they will put some bans that will actually make players stop and think about trying to end somebody else's career. But I doubt it.

That's the consistent rationale for allowing fighting - they say it protects the players because they police themselves. You know you're going to get smacked by your opponents' heavyweight if you hit someone high.

The instigator penalty doesn't stop fighting. I just wish the NHL would admit that they won't ban it because they worry they'd lose fans. It clearly doesn't stop the head-hunting.

They also say it keeps the sticks down. But that's not true. Coaches teach you to keep the sticks down because if you're carrying that thing above your waist, you're slower to get it down to the puck. You want to stop injuries from a stick to the face, wear a cage like they do at every amateur level. Again, no cage rule because they worry they'd lose fans.

I think the NHL would be a better product if it didn't perceive that a good percentage of its fans only show up because they like an occasional broken face. This isn't NASCAR where the crashes seem to hold much of the appeal.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Grover

Fixing Supplemental Discipline - An Elegant Solution - The Copper & Blue

Excellent read, some great points and ideas.

I can't really disagree with anything in there. Shame it will never happen

[RainMaker]

Shitty way to lose. Sucks you can headhunt top players on other teams and not even draw a penalty in this league.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I can't really disagree with anything in there. Shame it will never happen

It's a nice idea in theory, but it ignores the fact that officials are reluctant to make decisions that will openly influence a game. The first thing you'd see after such a system was created is match penalties in an entire season end up being called less often than diving penalties (which only carries a fine)

It already happens now. Just a couple games ago, one of the Preds was screwing with Franzen from the bench. Franzen executed a textbook spear on him, which is an automatic five minutes if it makes contact. Should have been 2 on the Pred and 5+game on Franzen. They called 2 minutes on Franzen for "slashing." They didn't want to have any influence on that single game. You think they're going to call match penalties that could cost players 10 or 25 games? Every team would use their 5 appeals by game 40 and their one playoff appeal in round 1.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Did anyone catch the trivia question during the Panthers-Devils game re: the Leafs?

Alexei Ponikarovsky is one of 5 active players to play a playoff game as a Leaf. He was only able to name two of the other four!

Any guesses from those who didn't catch the answers?

Just in case anyone was curious on this

Spoiler

Ponikarovsky is one.

Other four are Nik Antropov (now Winnipeg), Steve Sullivan (Pittsburgh), Matt Stajan (Calgary) and Tomas Kaberle (Montreal).

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Grover

Fixing Supplemental Discipline - An Elegant Solution - The Copper & Blue

Excellent read, some great points and ideas.

Anyone's feeling for Lemieux aside, he proposed a system to hold teams responsible last March-

• 1-2 games--$50,000 fine to team
• 3-4 games--$100,000 fine to team
• 5-8 games--$250,000 fine to team
• 9-10 games--$500,000 fine to team
• 11-15 games--$750,000 fine to team
• More than 15 games--$1 million fine to team
"If a player is a repeat offender during that season, the fine to the team would double," wrote Lemieux. "Please note that if this proposed system were in operation today, the Pittsburgh Penguins would have been fined $600,000 this season because of recent suspensions to two players. We all have to take responsibility if we are going to improve the game.'"

This and the total ban on headshots were both voted down.

As much as we all hate Roger Goodell, he came in and made a change. It wasn't popular, still isn't all the time. But, it was necessary.

These guys need saved from themselves.

[RainMaker]

I seriously think it will take a serious injury or death before something changes. I don't think we are terribly far from one happening. Players are just so big and so fast these days.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

That's the consistent rationale for allowing fighting - they say it protects the players because they police themselves. You know you're going to get smacked by your opponents' heavyweight if you hit someone high.

The instigator penalty doesn't stop fighting. I just wish the NHL would admit that they won't ban it because they worry they'd lose fans. It clearly doesn't stop the head-hunting.

Yup, folks keep saying "you can't take fighting out, it will lead to targeting stars!", but there clearly has been a ton of fighting in these playoffs and yet stars continue to get head-hunted. I'd say it's time to get serious, but clearly the NHL doesn't REALLY seem to care with the way they are handling discipline.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by bronconick

It's a nice idea in theory, but it ignores the fact that officials are reluctant to make decisions that will openly influence a game. The first thing you'd see after such a system was created is match penalties in an entire season end up being called less often than diving penalties (which only carries a fine)

It already happens now. Just a couple games ago, one of the Preds was screwing with Franzen from the bench. Franzen executed a textbook spear on him, which is an automatic five minutes if it makes contact. Should have been 2 on the Pred and 5+game on Franzen. They called 2 minutes on Franzen for "slashing." They didn't want to have any influence on that single game. You think they're going to call match penalties that could cost players 10 or 25 games? Every team would use their 5 appeals by game 40 and their one playoff appeal in round 1.

This is kind of covered in the article with the ability for a team to appeal to the panel afterwards for a belated match penalty. So if the refs call a few less just because they are unsure, the panel will make it right after the fact. Sort of like instant replay in the NFL, where the officials will tend to let the play continue because they know that the replay will set things straight.

[bhlloy]

Yeah, exactly. I'm not a fan of having it entirely in the hands of the refs either, but the after the fact review panel would make that point moot.

Of course the day a major league allows a completely independent review panel to decide suspensions is the day hell freezes over. You can't have Crosby and Ovechkin suspended a day before NBC has a game marketed around them and piss off the corporate sponsors. So that's a complete non-starter

[Logan]

It was really disgusting that Torres got to stay on the ice for the remainder of the game. While they were loading Hossa on to the stretcher, the league office should have just pulled him off right that. If everything revolves around injury, why not when someone gets hurt, just have it be reviewable like flagrant fouls in basketball...Toronto calls down and gives the ruling of a 5 min major and game misconduct.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Logan

It was really disgusting that Torres got to stay on the ice for the remainder of the game. While they were loading Hossa on to the stretcher, the league office should have just pulled him off right that. If everything revolves around injury, why not when someone gets hurt, just have it be reviewable like flagrant fouls in basketball...Toronto calls down and gives the ruling of a 5 min major and game misconduct.

I think everyone is going a bit overboard here.

The refs on the ice either missed the hit or thought it was "clean", since they didn't call a penalty. So, based on that fact there was no reason to toss Torres from the the game. I think the hit was late and he left his feet, so it wasn't clean, (and he will be suspended), but assuming it was a clean hit - as the refs on ice apparently saw it - you can't just start tossing players out of a game because they make a hit that hurts someone.

I, also, don't think it's wise to have someone call in from elsewhere and tell the refs to remove a player from the game. The refs can consult with linesmen in that situation and that's it. If there is going to be a review from the league or "upstairs" that has to happen after the game, just like it always has.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Another thing I've read a lot from various media types is that all of these hits and shananigans and what not are a result of Shanahan not laying the hammer down on Weber for what he did to Zetterberg.

I really think that's quite a stretch. While it's possible that some players might have thought twice about an action or two if Weber had been suspended a game or two, I really don't think it would have changed much. These are fierce rivalries, split second decisions or heat-of-the-moment decisions. I really doubt what happened to some other player on some other team in some other series is going to matter much at times like that.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I think everyone is going a bit overboard here.

The refs on the ice either missed the hit or thought it was "clean", since they didn't call a penalty. So, based on that fact there was no reason to toss Torres from the the game. I think the hit was late and he left his feet, so it wasn't clean, (and he will be suspended), but assuming it was a clean hit - as the refs on ice apparently saw it - you can't just start tossing players out of a game because they make a hit that hurts someone.

I, also, don't think it's wise to have someone call in from elsewhere and tell the refs to remove a player from the game. The refs can consult with linesmen in that situation and that's it. If there is going to be a review from the league or "upstairs" that has to happen after the game, just like it always has.

My point is that when something so egregious takes place, and the 4 guys on the ice somehow miss it, I could care less about fairness or what's right or how things should be handled...the guy doesn't deserve to be on the fucking ice.

I was being a bit facetious about the review happening for "every injury"...only noting that because of the NHL's ridiculous distinction between injury/non injury when it comes to doling out suspensions.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Another thing I've read a lot from various media types is that all of these hits and shananigans and what not are a result of Shanahan not laying the hammer down on Weber for what he did to Zetterberg.

I really think that's quite a stretch. While it's possible that some players might have thought twice about an action or two if Weber had been suspended a game or two, I really don't think it would have changed much. These are fierce rivalries, split second decisions or heat-of-the-moment decisions. I really doubt what happened to some other player on some other team in some other series is going to matter much at times like that.

I don't think the Weber decision had players conciously looking to cross the line because of the Weber standard set early in the playoffs. It's more that the decision didn't give anyone reason to notice because it was more of the same.

[RomaGoth]

What Weber did to Zetterberg was fucking barbaric and he should have been banned for the series. Torres clearly left his feet while hitting Hossa. The NHL has turned into the WWE and is nearly unwatchable.

Fuck off Shanahan. You too Bettman.

[TurnerONU22]

At this point, I think James Wisniewski could have murdered Cal Clutterbuck on the ice and got less games than he did back in September.

[Grover]

Torres is suspended indefinitely with a hearing on Friday.

[bbor]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

What Weber did to Zetterberg was fucking barbaric and he should have been banned for the series. Torres clearly left his feet while hitting Hossa. The NHL has turned into the WWE and is nearly unwatchable.

Fuck off Shanahan. You too Bettman.

If Detroit keeps leaving guys open in front of the net you won't have to watch it much longer this season.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by bbor

If Detroit keeps leaving guys open in front of the net you won't have to watch it much longer this season.

Yeah this team looks like shit. We haven't been a dominant team in several years but I was hoping we could at least get out of the first round. Losing both home games so far and the non-punishment to Weber just seals the deal for an early playoff exit.

Aah well, at least we are that much closer to a Zach Parise in a Wings uniform sighting!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Losing two games at home is the killer, especially after that home winning streak.

Overall, Nashville is just more sound defensively, especially in their own zone, they are captilizing on their chances and Rinne is out playing Howard. Nashville also has had the better luck. Two fluky goals in Game One (as opposed to a fluky goal in Game 6 by Lidstrom who scores on Nashville from about center ice in 2008). Helm gets injured on a fluke play by Radulov knocking him out of the playoffs (as opposed to Radulov injuring Arnott during a goal celebration and knocking him out of the series in 2008). Rinne stealing games. Wings missing goals by the width of a stick (Kline on Emmerton in Game 3) or by 0.1 seconds (Franzen in Game 3).

It all adds up to an early exit.

Howard really hasn't been the issue, but he also hasn't been particularly sharp. That Legwand non-goal last night is a good example. Loss of focus and concentration and sloppy play. He's not been the same goalie he was before he got hurt. Something's just a bit off.

The game winning goal was horrible. Three guys chase the puck into the corner, leaving essentially a two-on-0 with Howard waaaay out of position, also chasing the guy into the corner. It looked like some weird NHL '93 AI or something.

The first goal last was also a defensive lapse. The guy was wide open out front with no one around him.

Rinne is also playing exceptionally well. So, there's the hot goaltender thing.

It will be a very interesting off season. If the Wings do lose this series, it will be clear that the Wings' train has stalled out and is now slowly going in reverse. Changes will need to be made. Lidstrom stay? Homer? What to do about Quincey? He probably played one of his better games as a Wing last night. He's a RFA, but how much is he worth? Does he replace Stewie? If not, who? How do the Wings address their lack of scoring? Lack of size up front?

The Wings have money to spend, but the CBA is ending and everyone is expecting the cap to drop as part of the new agreement, so, how do they function during the summer? Are long term contracts going the way of the dodo as a result of the new CBA?

Interesting times...

[DaddyTorgo]

Interesting that the Caps are trying to get physical with Boston. I just don't see that being their path to victory. Similar to Montreal last year - they'd do better playing a more up-tempo game and leaving the physical behind. Because the B's thrive when things get gritty and messy.

[Logan]

Ex-Blackhawk Cummins Defends Torres’ Hit, Then Says He Didn’t See It « CBS Chicago

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Logan

Ex-Blackhawk Cummins Defends Torres’ Hit, Then Says He Didn’t See It « CBS Chicago

Jim Cummins is one of the few players who I actively disliked while they played for the Wings. Others include Jimmy Carson and Andrea Lilja. I am sure there are a few more and there are definitely players I didn't really care for, but Cummins was always a doofus.

I did have Jim Cummins on a Strat-O team once. It was an early Tampa Bay team. He and Enrico Ciccone made up my third defense pairing. They were called the "C & C Hitting Factory". They even had their own theme song.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Logan

Ex-Blackhawk Cummins Defends Torres’ Hit, Then Says He Didn’t See It « CBS Chicago

GP G A Pts PIM

511 24 36 60 1538








See what all those punches to the head do to you?

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Jim Cummins is one of the few players who I actively disliked while they played for the Wings. Others include Jimmy Carson and Andrea Lilja.

Don't get me started on the defensive trainwreck that is Andreas LOLja

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Jim Cummins is one of the few players who I actively disliked while they played for the Wings. Others include Jimmy Carson and Andrea Lilja. I am sure there are a few more and there are definitely players I didn't really care for, but Cummins was always a doofus.

I did have Jim Cummins on a Strat-O team once. It was an early Tampa Bay team. He and Enrico Ciccone made up my third defense pairing. They were called the "C & C Hitting Factory". They even had their own theme song.

Right there with ya' on this one, including the other players you named (I also didn't care for Paul Coffey very much). I actually forgot that Cummins even played for the Wings until I saw the above posting....

[RomaGoth]

Wow. Pens already losing 1-0 less than 2 minutes into the game. Ruh-roh.

[RomaGoth]

dola

2-1 Pens now. At least they aren't going down without a fight. Hope the Wings do the same for game 5 later this week.....

[General Mike]

How do you spell garbage?

[Grover]

terrible refereeing all around in PGH/PHI.

That being said, 3-2 Flyers.

[General Mike]

Bryzgalov is just as bad as Fleury

[Grover]

Yep. Flyers won't get past the next round if the defense and Bryz continue on like this.

[RomaGoth]

The lack of quality goaltending in the Pens/Flyers series is mind-boggling, especially considering how stellar it has been in all of the other series....

[B & B]

I know you kids like it sloppy.




and yes, neither of these teams will be going past the next round. also the refs in this game can eat a dick.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

The lack of quality goaltending in the Pens/Flyers series is mind-boggling, especially considering how stellar it has been in all of the other series....

It's not just the goaltending. The defense has been awful as well.

Pittsburgh's last two goals were not Bryz's fault. Not much Fleury could have done on either PPG for the Flyers either.

[PurdueBrad]

Yeah, I'm a Pens fan and, if by some miracle, we would come back and win this series it is not one I will look back on with any fond memories. Goal-tending has been bad, defense atrocious, and refs inexcusable. A lot of my high school kids are going on and on about how great a series this is and how exciting it is but I think it's just ugly, bad hockey.

[bhlloy]

So because this is the NHL, and they've never met a sensible solution or a middle ground, we're going to get a million ridiculous ticky tack penalties called for the rest of the playoffs that ruin the games just as badly. Awesome

[Grover]

This is embarrassing. Flyers have completely given up. This does not bode well for the remainder of the series.

[Grover]

Enjoy game five off, Zac.

[sterlingice]

Sweet merciful crap, Pittsburgh. Where was this the rest of the series?

SI

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

So because this is the NHL, and they've never met a sensible solution or a middle ground, we're going to get a million ridiculous ticky tack penalties called for the rest of the playoffs that ruin the games just as badly. Awesome

I bet this game is going over huge with all of those suburban moms in southwest U.S and their families. All these goals! No violence or goonery! And, look, it's that one hockey player, Sidney Crosby! What an amazing sport this hockey is!

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Sweet merciful crap, Pittsburgh. Where was this the rest of the series?

SI

Combination of a team up 3-0 and a team down 0-3 in a series without a lick of defense.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Grover

terrible refereeing all around in PGH/PHI.

That being said, 3-2 Flyers.

Originally Posted by B & B

and yes, neither of these teams will be going past the next round. also the refs in this game can eat a dick.

I sent a text to Sak about 2 minutes into the game saying-

"I sure hope there aren't 400 combined PPs"

Looks like I was on the low side.

Originally Posted by Grover

Enjoy game five off, Zac.

Can the Penguins decline it? Sort of like not pressing charges?

As a Pens fan, I want him out there, he may keep us in this series.

[Logan]

Very disappointing game for the Rangers. Jumping out to that quick 2 goal lead and then nothing on offense the rest of the way. Torts has a couple days to figure out how to get Gaborik and Richards some space...they really miss Hagelin right now.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Anyone have any theories on what the hell is happening with PPs in the playoffs?

Philly and Florida both at 60% going against the 3rd (Pittsburgh) and 1st (NJ) ranked PKs from the regular season.

Penguins and Blues also both over 30%.

Sure, small sample size, but with the Devils and Penguins, it's not even close, Flyers picking apart the Penguins PK easily.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Logan

Very disappointing game for the Rangers. Jumping out to that quick 2 goal lead and then nothing on offense the rest of the way. Torts has a couple days to figure out how to get Gaborik and Richards some space...they really miss Hagelin right now.

Here's a hint: Play Kreider

[Logan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Here's a hint: Play Kreider

He's playing and looking good in his short stints but he's overmatched right now in terms of picking up the system. He will surely be a stud though...an amazing skater and strong on the puck.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Logan

He's playing and looking good in his short stints but he's overmatched right now in terms of picking up the system. He will surely be a stud though...an amazing skater and strong on the puck.

He got ice time last game? Last I had heard he didn't get any in the first two games of the series.

Sweet!

Trivia time:
Last two players to have played in an NCAA Championship game and a Stanley Cup Playoff game in the same year?

Last two players to have won an NCAA Championship and played in a Stanley Cup Playoff game in the same year?

(These shouldn't be THAT hard, the media has been all over them).

[Logan]

Kreider has played in the last two games, originally filling the role of Hagelin after his suspension. He missed an easy goal in the first one, saying that he was so nervous he completely whiffed on the puck, and then barely missed another last night on a shot that slowly trickled through the crease.