2023 NFL Regular Season Thread

[CrimsonFox]

pre game concvert? they are doing that now???

[Ksyrup]

I did not know Lenny Kravitz's drummer is married to Santana.

[Ksyrup]

Nick Chubb injury is so bad they won't show the replay but they showed it in stadium and the crowd collectively gasped. Ugh.

[Jas_lov]

They have a clip on Twitter. Its awful. His knee gets bent back.

[GrantDawg]

God bless him. He already had his knee blow up in college.

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[GrantDawg]

Oh man. Just saw it. That's gruesome

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[Lathum]

That was really gross

[Solecismic]

Their defense could still carry them.

It sure is easy to dislike Deshaun Watson. He's getting results, no doubt, but just watching those two personal fouls in the last few minutes. Something is off with him, not just the behavior that got him suspended or what he did to the Texans after getting paid.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

It sure is easy to dislike Deshaun Watson. He's getting results, no doubt, but just watching those two personal fouls in the last few minutes. Something is off with him, not just the behavior that got him suspended or what he did to the Texans after getting paid.

Kinda feels like the Gainesville, GA in him coming out.

[Swaggs]

Kenny Pickett needs to get a lot better, real quick. He looks like he can’t get caught up to speed. Almost have to wonder if he’s had one too many concussions.

[stevew]

Who makes the playoffs at 0-2 and misses at 2-0?


2-0
Dallas
Philly
Wash
Atlanta
Tampa
SF
Miami
Baltimore
New Orleans


0-2
NE
Cincy
Houston
Denver
LAC
Chicago
Minnesota
Arizona
Carolina

[stevew]

I have the Bengals and Vikings rallying and Saints/Washington/Atlanta all missing.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by stevew

Atlanta all missing.

Why you got to be like that?

[Kodos]

I'm a Falcons fan (not that I ever get to watch them), but they were my first choice for missing the playoffs.

[Edward64]

Bijan will prove you doubters wrong.

[JPhillips]

If Burrow is hobbled the Bengals won't be able to rally.

[albionmoonlight]

Honest question for Bears fans:

It seems pretty likely that y'all will end up with two very high picks next draft--possibly top 5.

Assuming that happens, has it been worth it as a fan? It is the classic tanking question (though I am not accusing the team of losing on purpose). Are years of having to watch a shitty team worth it to get the chance to draft a top QB and another blue chip guy?

Or would you have preferred average football over the last 4 years?

Normally, we think of that in the abstract, but here is a real life example of it. What's your feelings on it?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Honest question for Bears fans:

It seems pretty likely that y'all will end up with two very high picks next draft--possibly top 5.

Assuming that happens, has it been worth it as a fan? It is the classic tanking question (though I am not accusing the team of losing on purpose). Are years of having to watch a shitty team worth it to get the chance to draft a top QB and another blue chip guy?

Or would you have preferred average football over the last 4 years?

Normally, we think of that in the abstract, but here is a real life example of it. What's your feelings on it?

Well, last year was the first year of actual tanking. Before that the Bears were bad and actually trying. One of the issues they previously had in hiring a competent GM was the McCaskyes wouldn't let anyone rebuild. Ballard specifically didn't take the job because of that.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

The year is 2040, colin Kaepernick reaches out to the Jets about replacing a retiring Jordan Love.

Come on, Sui...FIFY.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Honest question for Bears fans:

It seems pretty likely that y'all will end up with two very high picks next draft--possibly top 5.

Assuming that happens, has it been worth it as a fan? It is the classic tanking question (though I am not accusing the team of losing on purpose). Are years of having to watch a shitty team worth it to get the chance to draft a top QB and another blue chip guy?

Or would you have preferred average football over the last 4 years?

Normally, we think of that in the abstract, but here is a real life example of it. What's your feelings on it?

Originally Posted by Atocep

Well, last year was the first year of actual tanking. Before that the Bears were bad and actually trying. One of the issues they previously had in hiring a competent GM was the McCaskyes wouldn't let anyone rebuild. Ballard specifically didn't take the job because of that.

Agree with this point. The Bears only tried to tank last season. The other years, they were just bad.

This year is going to be interesting. I don't know why some thought this was a playoff team with the holes in the roster. However, I did think we were a 6-7 win team. Right now, we look like a 2 win team.

Will they lean into it and ensure this is a <4 win team? Don't know, too early to tell. Will the fan base be ok with that? No, not in the way it's happening now. If the team starts to show some growth, not just from Fields but from all of the young players, they will reluctantly come around.

For me, I would like to see growth of the young players and improvement that shows that Fields is far and away the problem. There are so many issues on offense, putting another QB into that spot will most likely result in the same destruction of a QB that we're seeing now.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Honest question for Bears fans:

It seems pretty likely that y'all will end up with two very high picks next draft--possibly top 5.

Assuming that happens, has it been worth it as a fan? It is the classic tanking question (though I am not accusing the team of losing on purpose). Are years of having to watch a shitty team worth it to get the chance to draft a top QB and another blue chip guy?

Or would you have preferred average football over the last 4 years?

Normally, we think of that in the abstract, but here is a real life example of it. What's your feelings on it?

I was fine with it last year to get some bad contracts off the books and secure a high pick. But I don't think they're trying to tank this year and it's more out of incompetence. They haven't added any impact players so this "tank" is probably going on for another year after this.

I'd also add that I don't think tanking is a smart strategy in the NFL. Maybe you can argue to grab some generational talent at QB, but that's so rare and such a crapshoot, that it's not worth it. Take a look at the best teams in the league now. Or the best teams over the past 20 years. How many of those teams became great because of a successful tank job?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Kenny Pickett needs to get a lot better, real quick. He looks like he can’t get caught up to speed. Almost have to wonder if he’s had one too many concussions.

He's Andy Dalton. Not even a knock on him, he just seems to have flaws and a limited ceiling. With a lot of talent around him, he can be good, but I don't think he's ever going to become one of the elite QBs in the league.

[thesloppy]

I dunno if "impressive" is the right word, but it is certainly SOMETHING taht DeShaun Watcon managed to get two facemask penalties as a quarterback.

[RainMaker]

For as bad as the Bears are, at least they don't have that Watson or Wilson contract on the books.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

For as bad as the Bears are, at least they don't have that Watson or Wilson contract on the books.

Don't give the Bears management ideas!

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by stevew

Who makes the playoffs at 0-2 and misses at 2-0?

I'm pretty sure the Patriots are out.

As we've discussed elsewhere, there are ways to win with above-average offensive skill players and a below-average (but not actively detrimental) QB, and there are ways to win with an above-average QB and below-average offensive skill players, and there are definitely ways to win with a HOF QB and below-average offensive skill players, but there aren't really ways to win with below-average offensive skill players and a below-average QB, no matter how good your defense is.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Assuming that happens, has it been worth it as a fan? It is the classic tanking question (though I am not accusing the team of losing on purpose). Are years of having to watch a shitty team worth it to get the chance to draft a top QB and another blue chip guy?

I'm not a Bears fan, but I'll answer anyway. I think the answer is going to be colored somewhat by how much confidence you have in the organization that they'll be able to a) choose an actually good QB and b) build a competitive team around them.

If I'm a Bears fan I'm looking at literally the last 40 years worth of experience and it's not filling me with confidence.

[Bobble]

I just watched JT O'Sullivan's hour-and-a-half breakdown of Fields and the Bears week 2. He pretty much craps on the whole org. Poor O-line play, poor play from TE and WRs, ridiculous play calling, and skittish, gunshy performance from Justin Fields. Total trainwreck.

There are so many "What are we doing here?" comments from him directed at too many different players and scheme concepts that you really that you come away with no confidence in the Bears staff. Maybe Fields was never going to be a good NFL QB but you have to believe that his chances with this team are practically nil.

[CrimsonFox]

I think week 4 will be the week the Jets make a move for a quarterback on a team that looks like they have given up

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I dunno if "impressive" is the right word, but it is certainly SOMETHING taht DeShaun Watcon managed to get two facemask penalties as a quarterback.

Might have cost them the game though as they really killed some big plays.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Bobble

I just watched JT O'Sullivan's hour-and-a-half breakdown of Fields and the Bears week 2. He pretty much craps on the whole org. Poor O-line play, poor play from TE and WRs, ridiculous play calling, and skittish, gunshy performance from Justin Fields. Total trainwreck.

There are so many "What are we doing here?" comments from him directed at too many different players and scheme concepts that you really that you come away with no confidence in the Bears staff. Maybe Fields was never going to be a good NFL QB but you have to believe that his chances with this team are practically nil.

I was reading Bill Barnwell and he pointed out that things are so bad right now that it's hard to pinpoint where the problem really is. Getsy's playcalling doesn't fit Fields and is just bad overall. The offensive execution is awful. There's 1-2 players not doing the right thing on nearly every play. Fields is all over the place and playing like he has no confidence in the plays being called or his teammates.

I thought Eberflus did a solid job last year. They had very little talent, but played hard and weren't making a ton of boneheaded mistakes. They just weren't good. This year it's just a disaster. The lack of execution and guys not playing hard is really glaring.

Expectations were 7 wins-ish and improvement. It would take a miracle for this team to get to 7 wins.

[rjolley]

Bobble, that's the same takeaway I've had after looking at a few different sources. And is the reason I have no desire to see another QB drafted early. If this staff is in place, I have no confidence that they'll develop him. They've changed enough with Fields that hasn't worked.

Bagent may play well in this offense because he's more in line with what the coaches want from the position. But I think Fields is the more talented player. This is not an offense or a coaching staff that takes advantages of his strengths while working to develop what he needs to improve.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

He's Andy Dalton. Not even a knock on him, he just seems to have flaws and a limited ceiling. With a lot of talent around him, he can be good, but I don't think he's ever going to become one of the elite QBs in the league.

I am a couple more weeks of slow motion QBing, passes being thrown behind open receivers, and seeing passes thrown directly to the other team away from hoping that he can be as good as Andy Dalton. Pickett was an older rookie and is already 25 years old. Dalton was putting up his peak seasons from 25-28ish and leading his team to the playoffs.

I hope I'm wrong and he turns into a star, but my biggest fear is that, if he hasn't turned it around by midseason, they end up pouring another couple of years into developing him and then he gets to that Dalton level and they are faced with the prospect of paying him a starting QB rate for his second contract or they are back to square one: neither of which would be pretty. It would suck for peak TJ Watt and Minkah Fitzpatrick years to be wasted like this.

[JPhillips]

I just don't see how you can expect to compete in the AFC without solid to great QB play. Put the Steelers in the NFC and they are likely to get to the playoffs, but how do they get into the top seven in the AFC without Pickett being much better?

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I dunno if "impressive" is the right word, but it is certainly SOMETHING taht DeShaun Watcon managed to get two facemask penalties as a quarterback.

AND got away with pushing/contacting a referee without being ejected, likely only because he's the starting QB during a primetime, heavily televised game. If he was an OL, he's tossed, no question.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by rjolley

Bobble, that's the same takeaway I've had after looking at a few different sources. And is the reason I have no desire to see another QB drafted early. If this staff is in place, I have no confidence that they'll develop him. They've changed enough with Fields that hasn't worked.

Bagent may play well in this offense because he's more in line with what the coaches want from the position. But I think Fields is the more talented player. This is not an offense or a coaching staff that takes advantages of his strengths while working to develop what he needs to improve.

Yeah, agreed. The Bears look like either a whole team of rogue, uncoachable player personalities that aren't following the scheme or technique -OR- it's a very poorly coached and run team. It's sad because it's ruining player careers through poor development (especially since I'm a Justin Fields fan) so why grab another great prospect just to burn him to the ground. But, I guess poor development has happened in all sports since the dawn of time.

They'd be better off grabbing a veteran QB that already knows what to do during the play and can reject poor play designs. Then they can focus on teaching everyone else how to play the game.

[Ksyrup]

I just saw a snippet of an article where it sounds like Justin Fields threw his coaches under the bus for his poor play.

I'm sure things are fine in Chicago!

[rjolley]

Fields said coaching and his overthinking things are the reasons he's been staying in the pocket and he's going to go back to playing how he feels comfortable. At this point, I'm good with what he said. Let him go down being himself, not whoever that was the first 2 weeks. If it's more of the same, so be it. We know what we need to do.

How about DC Williams is not around and no one can say when he's coming back? Or LT Jones is out a month, possibly the season? Yep, everything is just fine in Chicago. *insert burning Everything is fine meme here*

[CrimsonFox]

A lot of Chicago players will probably get injured from this "everyone not on the same page" stuff

[molson]

I can't wait to see a less-coached, less-disciplined, less thinking Fields out there.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by molson

I can't wait to see a less-coached, less-disciplined, less thinking Fields out there.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by molson

I can't wait to see a less-coached, less-disciplined, less thinking Fields out there.

If it were Hollywood, they'd win the Super Bowl now.

I suspect this ends with the Bears not picking up his fifth year option and drafting yet another first-round mistake next year. When asked if he'll help rookie learn the ropes, the Bears threaten to release him if he tries.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I suspect this ends with the Bears not picking up his fifth year option and drafting yet another first-round mistake next year.

April 2024:

"We're still very high on Justin and know he's going to do great things in Chicago. We had an opportunity to add another player we're also high on to the QB room so it made sense to go in that direction".

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rjolley

Fields said coaching and his overthinking things are the reasons he's been staying in the pocket and he's going to go back to playing how he feels comfortable.

But if someone else had said, for example, something like "he's an athlete, not a football player" oh GOD would there have been some that lost their shit. His comments do fit in pretty well with the stories about why he never could earn playing time at Georgia

I'm sure "run a post to the Buick and I'll just take off if you're not open" will be just fine.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But if someone else had said, for example, something like "he's an athlete, not a football player" oh GOD would there have been some that lost their shit. His comments do fit in pretty well with the stories about why he never could earn playing time at Georgia

I'm sure "run a post to the Buick and I'll just take off if you're not open" will be just fine.

Will he be a sit back and throw the ball around the yard 35-40 times and be successful type of QB? Don't know. It's trending right now that he won't be. Can he be a throw the ball 25-30 times and run it 10-15 times and be successful? Probably. Let's see.

The question is can the latter be successful in leading a team to the playoffs. Yes, they can.

So let's see if Justin actually turns this around over the next couple of weeks. I hope he can. He seems like a good young man and a good leader for the team. If not, we'll throw Bagent out there to see what he's got and use the top-5 picks to bring in the next QB to dest....develop.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by rjolley

Fields said coaching and his overthinking things are the reasons he's been staying in the pocket and he's going to go back to playing how he feels comfortable. At this point, I'm good with what he said. Let him go down being himself, not whoever that was the first 2 weeks. If it's more of the same, so be it. We know what we need to do.

How about DC Williams is not around and no one can say when he's coming back? Or LT Jones is out a month, possibly the season? Yep, everything is just fine in Chicago. *insert burning Everything is fine meme here*

Williams resigning for his health, apparently.

Edit: Or his house got raided?!

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

If it were Hollywood, they'd win the Super Bowl now.

I suspect this ends with the Bears not picking up his fifth year option and drafting yet another first-round mistake next year. When asked if he'll help rookie learn the ropes, the Bears threaten to release him if he tries.

He can be the next "Steamin" Wille Beamen.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rjolley

Will he be a sit back and throw the ball around the yard 35-40 times and be successful type of QB? Don't know. It's trending right now that he won't be. Can he be a throw the ball 25-30 times and run it 10-15 times and be successful? Probably. Let's see.

The question is can the latter be successful in leading a team to the playoffs. Yes, they can.

I've never believed he was a legitimate NFL QB in the first place, or certainly no chance of being a successful NFL QB. ("legitimate", hell I'm not even sure what that means at this point, the demand seems to far outweigh the supply)

Naturally then I would not expect this sort of shift to succeed.

[thesloppy]

My half-assed impresssion of Fields is that the enitre football world had come to an agreement that he was a shitty QB even before last year and yet 2 long runs early in the seasons somehow upset that narrative for an entire year, even though his quarterback play never got any better.

[rjolley]

Jon, you could be right. The games I remember him from in college, I thought he looked the part of having potential to be good in the NFL, not much better or worse than the other top candidates from the 2-3 years before him. That hasn't translated to the pros. Neither has it for Mac Jones. Tua took awhile to get it going, as did Hurts. Both were rumored to be on thin ice before they broke out.

However, Fields did show potential for a stretch last year. He may not do well in a "conventional" NFL offense, but one tailored to him, like the one they ran in Baltimore, could work.

Are the Bears willing to do that? Will Fields ever make the adjustment long term to be a better passer? Is this all hopeful thinking from a lifelong Bears fan? Time will tell.