2013-14 NBA Offseason/Draft Thread

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think the Sixers made one of the best moves out of any team last night. They finally committed to a full rebuild.

Holiday is a good, but not great player. They'll essentially turn him into Noel and a late lottery pick, along with a trade exception they can use to take on salary with a pick. Think taking Shawn Marion off the Mavs hands who need to free up cap space and getting a 1st in return.

So that deal may net you 3 1st round picks for Holiday. It allows the Sixers to be real bad next year in a great draft class and potentially acquire a franchise player.

As for Noel, I don't think he'll be a star player, but I think he can become one of the best defensive bigs in the league. He's already an elite shot blocker. If things pan out with him, the Sixers have a big man to protect the paint for the next 7 or so years.

Bummer to lose Sam Hinkie from the Rockets org but he's gotten to work as the 76ers GM

SI

[murrayyyyy]

Being a Grizzlies fan I think they may have gotten the steal of the draft with Franklin @ 41. Seen the kid play for SDSU for three years and loved his game. I think this means Tony Allen is gone unless he wants to stay for less money.

Then turn around and trade Arthur, who gets injured every other week, for Koufos? Sure he won't start but I think Koufos is an upgrade over the Haddadi/Arthur combo we have tried for the past few years that has never worked out. Throw in Davis giving Z-Bo rest at the 4 and I think they have a pretty good team down low.

Not sure about Timma yet because he sounds like an less aggressive Rudy Gay. Can shoot but loves to disappear... Hopefully he can play D but at 60 it's a crap shoot.

What I thought was going to be an awful draft turned out to be pretty good. Too bad that the west had a pretty good draft minus the Rockets (why take a PG with Lin and Beverly and you are rumored to be landing CP3).

[Young Drachma]

CP3 isn't going anywhere now that Clips hired Doc.

[sterlingice]

Morey was just going with his usual "best player available" approach. In a draft deep with PG, that means you'll probably grab a PG to stash at Rio Grand Valley.

SI

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

CP3 isn't going anywhere now that Clips hired Doc.

I actually don't think he was going anywhere anyway even before that, although his people did a good job of conveying the opposite to the Clips to needle them into action on Doc.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'll see you guys in a couple years when the C's are done tanking it.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I'll see you guys in a couple years when the C's are done tanking it.

Must be nice to follow a team that only spends a couple years tanking.

[cartman]

Here's SI's take on the top undrafted players.

NBA draft 2013: Most intriguing undrafted players | The Point Forward - SI.com

[korme]

By far the nicest thing about a team not being from Cincinnati is that I have the luxury of enjoying things on the whole. I can root for any team I like, at any point.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Must be nice to follow a team that only spends a couple years tanking.

Being optimistic. It could certainly take longer than that. With their luck the Nets will make the playoffs through 2016 and the ping-pong ball gods will continue to do them no favors and they'll be the new league doormat.

[Izulde]

Stern will fix it so that the Celtics get high firsts if the Nets are in the lottery with those picks, don't worry.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Stern will do anything for the Celtics - just look at how he pushed that Doc/Garnett trade through!!!!

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Stern will fix it so that the Celtics get high firsts if the Nets are in the lottery with those picks, don't worry.

You don't have to worry about that - Stern hates the Celtics. Just look up "Reggie Lewis Cap Relief".

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Stern will do anything for the Celtics - just look at how he pushed that Doc/Garnett trade through!!!!

he also gave them Patrick Ewing and Tim Duncan

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

he also gave them Patrick Ewing and Tim Duncan

And either Greg Oden/Kevin Durant

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah - not that any team with so many titles can really whine about this, but they sure have gotten fucked by the Ping Pong balls pretty good over the years. I have no confidence they'd make the right pick if they got the #1...I have a feeling they'd pull a Pistons and draft the next Darko for example.

Not to mention Len Bias (RIP).

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Must be nice to follow a team that only spends a couple years tanking.

Seriously. Try being a fan of an un-sexy small market franchise. The Celtics will be back quickly because as soon as they start showing any signs of life again, free agents/trade prospects will fall in their laps because they're the Boston Celtics. It should be a fairly short, relatively painless process.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

What was the last big free agent that came to Boston? It might surprise a few, but there's a meme going around that NBA players don't want to come to Boston (cold, terrible night life, history of racial strife, threat of Aaron Hernandez)

Who is the Celtics' best free agent signing of all time?

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

What was the last big free agent that came to Boston? It might surprise a few, but there's a meme going around that NBA players don't want to come to Boston (cold, terrible night life, history of racial strife, threat of Aaron Hernandez)

If, back in 2007, the personnel had been *exactly* the same but in New Orleans/Milwaukee/Toronto/Charlotte rather than Boston, absolutely no way Garnett signs off on that trade.

threat of Aaron Hernandez...

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Granted. I just am not sure the Celtics are the free agent destination that other teams are - though I think in a perfect storm they can definitely swing it. Trust me, I am not trying to cry poverty.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

If, back in 2007, the personnel had been *exactly* the same but in New Orleans/Milwaukee/Toronto/Charlotte rather than Boston, absolutely no way Garnett signs off on that trade.

I think you're 100% wrong, especially as it pertains to Garnett. KG *never* cared about playing in a big market. He only wanted to play for a winner and a team that also included Basketball Jesus and The Truth offered him that.

Never mind that the Celtics never had a top notch Free Agent. When the best 3 FAs in team history are a washed-up 'Nique, James Posey and Eddie House, that's not much of a track record.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

Seriously. Try being a fan of an un-sexy small market franchise. The Celtics will be back quickly because as soon as they start showing any signs of life again, free agents/trade prospects will fall in their laps because they're the Boston Celtics. It should be a fairly short, relatively painless process.

LMAO.

Free agents HATE Boston. It's not LA/NYC/Miami as far as nightlife or climate. Hell, it's not even Texas. We don't have a marquee player to play with. Now we don't have a quality coach.

Like Ronnie says - not trying to cry poverty - the franchise has been incredibly successful in the past, but NBA FA's don't want to come to Boston.

[nol]

It probably doesn't help that the Celtics have spent the past five years being one of the more, ahem, antagonostic teams in the NBA.

[LloydLungs]

"Free agent signings" are misleading. There aren't actually very many marquee change-team FA signings in the NBA -- often guys get traded to the sexy franchise of their choice before they hit FA, then sign with that team. It is effectively the same thing. Garnett counts.

Even though the Celtics' teams were not as artificially assembled as Miami's and actually took some solid GMing, there are still roughly 20 NBA markets where it could've never been put together.

The Celtics will be likely be good again within three seasons. I was going to say unless their management sucks as much as the Knicks', but even the Knicks are good now.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

Even though the Celtics' teams were not as artificially assembled as Miami's and actually took some solid GMing, there are still roughly 20 NBA markets where it could've never been put together.

And by solid GMing you mean having a former player(McHale) trade his best player(KG) to a former teammate(Ainge) for a bunch of crap?

Don't fool yourself. That team was just as bad as the Heat team in how they were made up. They gave Miami the blueprint, Riley just took it up another level.

[Blackadar]

Lloyd, Garnett was not a free agent. I do not believe that Garnett had a no-trade clause at the time. Nor was he a Free Agent. His options were limited, and the Cs were an attractive choice because they already had Pierce and Ray Allen. Minny wouldn't trade Garnett to a team he didn't want to go to, but it wasn't a FA situation. That was Minny trying to respect all that KG had given them over the years. But more on that below...

You're right in that there's not many true top FA's in the league. But Garnett wasn't even a sign-and-trade. He was a trade, pure and simple. Not a FA.

murrayyyyy, you're, well...um...wrong. The Garnett trade wasn't a total rip-off. Al Jefferson was a 16/11 player after his 3rd year and he was only 22. He was considered one of the best young big men in the league. It's simply bad luck that he blew out his knee two years later (while averaging 23/11/1.7 blocks - an All Star stat line). Gerald Green was considered by many to have great potential and had won the slam-dunk contest. He just never made the next step. Ryan Gomes was a very solid role player. Telfair was thought to also have starting potential. And the T-Wolves also got 2 1sts back, including their own that was likely to be a very high pick. All in all, the Cs got the better end of the deal, but it could have easily gone the other way. The package the Cs put together was very attractive. 4 potential starters and 2 1st round picks - one of which was the #3 pick (Kevin Love). That's a haul.

And you're wrong on how that team was put together. It wasn't the players who drove it. It was Danny Ainge. His gamble in bringing in an aging (32) Ray Allen for the #5 pick in the draft, Delonte West and an expiring contract (Wally Szczerbiak) was a huge one. He did that banking on having enough clout and assets to tempt Garnett into accepting a trade to the Cs. That was a very high-risk scenario and it paid off. It could have easily blown up if Garnett decided not to come or if one of the big 3 (all were over 30) got seriously hurt the first year.

The Heat was put together by the players themselves. From a GM standpoint, when the best player on the planet and a very good big man say "we want to come here and team up with Dwayne Wade", it doesn't take much thought to say "ok".

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

And by solid GMing you mean having a former player(McHale) trade his best player(KG) to a former teammate(Ainge) for a bunch of crap?

Don't fool yourself. That team was just as bad as the Heat team in how they were made up. They gave Miami the blueprint, Riley just took it up another level.

Eh. The KG trade was fairly lopsided but doesn't happen without the Ray Allen trade. The whole thing was much easier to do because they were the Celtics, but at least actual basketball moves were made to put things into place. All Miami did was exist and have a decent population and have nice weather and nightlife.

Point remains though, the Celtics are one of the select franchises that can put something like that together, and I'm sure they will again before too long because shouldn't be that hard for them to do.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

Eh. The KG trade was fairly lopsided but doesn't happen without the Ray Allen trade. The whole thing was much easier to do because they were the Celtics, but at least actual basketball moves were made to put things into place. All Miami did was exist and have a decent population and have nice weather and nightlife.

And no state income tax.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Minny wouldn't trade Garnett to a team he didn't want to go to, but it wasn't a FA situation. That was Minny trying to respect all that KG had given them over the years.

Or, his contract was going to expire in two years and they knew they'd be losing him for nothing at that point. He signed an extension to that on the day he was traded to Boston. It was a de facto early FA move.

I'm sure Minnesota did respect all he'd done for them but I don't think that's actually why they traded him.

Originally Posted by Blackadar

And no state income tax.

Yes, that too.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

murrayyyyy, you're, well...um...wrong. The Garnett trade wasn't a total rip-off. Al Jefferson was a 16/11 player after his 3rd year and he was only 22. He was considered one of the best young big men in the league. It's simply bad luck that he blew out his knee two years later (while averaging 23/11/1.7 blocks - an All Star stat line). Gerald Green was considered by many to have great potential and had won the slam-dunk contest. He just never made the next step. Ryan Gomes was a very solid role player. Telfair was thought to also have starting potential. And the T-Wolves also got 2 1sts back, including their own that was likely to be a very high pick. All in all, the Cs got the better end of the deal, but it could have easily gone the other way. The package the Cs put together was very attractive. 4 potential starters and 2 1st round picks - one of which was the #3 pick (Kevin Love). That's a haul.

Jefferson was injured all three seasons he was in Boston to start his career. So potential yes, but injury prone. They also got Theo Ratliff's 34 yr old body. With Telfair the Celtics discovered what Portland knew from his first two season, he couldn't shoot above 40%. Ryan Gomes was a great pick up in the trade considering he was a late 2nd round pick but he was no sure thing. Green was a high school kid so it's random with potential there.

The draft picks were #28 Wayne Ellington and #6 Johnny Flynn, not Kevin Love (who was drafted by Memphis the year before and traded for OJ Mayo, not Minnesota). That's right, they trade back for their original pick from the Celtics... How did the Celtics get that pick? Boston acquired a 2009 first round draft pick(That #6 pick), Wally Szczerbiak, Michael Olowokandi and Dwayne Jones on January 26, 2006 from Minnesota in exchange for Ricky Davis, Marcus Banks, Mark Blount, Justin Reed and two second-round draft picks (Craig Smith and Nikola Pekovic)

Minnesota took 13 players for KG, Szczerbiak, Olowokandi and Jones in a year and a half... If you don't think McHale allowed the TWolves to get raped for his former team that he played for then you are a very silly man. McHale took an entire active roster from the Celtics in 18 months from the 33-49 and 24-58 Celtics teams.

You can keep playing that young with potential bullshit line but I'll play back thirteen players from a team with 107 losses in two seasons.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Jefferson was injured all three seasons he was in Boston to start his career. So potential yes, but injury prone. They also got Theo Ratliff's 34 yr old body. With Telfair the Celtics discovered what Portland knew from his first two season, he couldn't shoot above 40%. Ryan Gomes was a great pick up in the trade considering he was a late 2nd round pick but he was no sure thing. Green was a high school kid so it's random with potential there.

The draft picks were #28 Wayne Ellington and #6 Johnny Flynn, not Kevin Love (who was drafted by Memphis the year before and traded for OJ Mayo, not Minnesota). That's right, they trade back for their original pick from the Celtics... How did the Celtics get that pick? Boston acquired a 2009 first round draft pick(That #6 pick), Wally Szczerbiak, Michael Olowokandi and Dwayne Jones on January 26, 2006 from Minnesota in exchange for Ricky Davis, Marcus Banks, Mark Blount, Justin Reed and two second-round draft picks (Craig Smith and Nikola Pekovic)

Minnesota took 13 players for KG, Szczerbiak, Olowokandi and Jones in a year and a half... If you don't think McHale allowed the TWolves to get raped for his former team that he played for then you are a very silly man. McHale took an entire active roster from the Celtics in 18 months from the 33-49 and 24-58 Celtics teams.

You can keep playing that young with potential bullshit line but I'll play back thirteen players from a team with 107 losses in two seasons.

I stand corrected on the pick. It wasn't the #3. It was the #6. Still a damn valuable pick.

Yes, the Cs made two separate deals. In that first one, they took on one of most toxic contracts in the league in Wally Szczerbiak. They took on the toxic Kandi man. In fact, many people thought that Minny won that first deal. Wally and Kandi were gone. Davis could provide the inside-out scoring for the team and KG would keep him in line. Banks was the young PG with potential. What did the Cs get? Bad players, injured players and toxic contracts...and that 1st rounder. I remember Celtics fans being livid. They was robbed!

It didn't work out for the Wolves and when they had to sell Garnett, there weren't better offers that Garnett would accept than what the Cs were offering up. Ainge was/is very good at "selling" his young talent - making them look better than they really were, hyping them up and making them attractive to the open market. He's done it consistently.

Also, it's not like the T-Wolves were knocking it out of the park. They had 99 losses with Garnett in those same two seasons. Obviously it was time to do something drastic before they lost him entirely. Jefferson played in 82 games his first year in Minny and his PER was 22.7 (Garnett was 25.3). It wasn't highway robbery or, as you put it, "a bunch of crap". It's not Boston's fault that Minny could have had Steph Curry in 2009 (picked right after Flynn). No one is saying the Cs didn't get the better end of the deal - and looking back on it the Cs won BIG - but at the time it was pretty fair and it could have easily gone the other way. So when you refer to the deal as a "bunch of crap", you're full of it.

Finally, if McHale tanked on his current squad in favor of a former team, he'd never get another job in the NBA. So you can "play" that bullshit, but I'll "play" back that he's still in the league and employed. So put down the conspiracy theory handbook because it doesn't work. The NBA owners think you're full of shit.

[murrayyyyy]

When McHale gets put in another GM position, I'll take it all back... he will NEVER be put in that position again. Why in my opinion? McHale cost Minnesota 3 first round picks(originally 4) over 5 years by making a backdoor deal with Joe Smith that is he signed 3 one year contract, he would get a multiyear deal max deal from McHale. Then Stern voided Smith's contract so they lost former #1 pick Smith and a first round pick in 2001, 2002, 2004 and 2005 (the NBA restored the 2005 pick). Kahn is a moron and kept a guy who almost cost them 4 out of 5 years of first round picks. Best believe if McHale was fired for what he did in 2000 then he never would have sniffed a GM position again (not that I think he ever will). Would you hire a guy who cost a team their first round picks for that many years?

Morey is the GM making all the right moves right now, not McHale. Morey has flipped 13 of the 15 players and has the cap room to sign a max player at the same time.

There is one thing about the modern sports. If you take a TV job, people think you are really smart and think you can do a better job than their current coach. It's the same reason Gruden will always be rumored as on the short list of X's team. I'm not saying McHale is a bad coach. I'm saying that his chum chum relationship with Ainge lead to his horrible moves in Minnesota near the end. But let's not act like Ainge came knocking asking for McHale... McHale's goal was to trade KG to Boston before the draft and KG refused. In fact you can see in articles where McHale says he wants to trade KG to Boston before the draft. Suddenly Boston gets Jesus Shuttleworth goes to the C's and all is good for KG. It was a back door deal and it wasn't the first one McHale ever made.

[Groundhog]

Charlotte Bobcats everybody

[Logan]

That guy at 40 seconds is fantastic.

[Neon_Chaos]

Hey That's A Good Pick!

[Groundhog]

All jokes aside, I can definitely understand the reaction, but he's going to have a better rookie year than Noel or Len most likely. Given how woeful the Bobcats are at putting the ball in the basket after drafting non-scorers like MKG and Biyombo, Zeller could be a good fit.

[Kodos]

I can promise you Zeller will work his ass off.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

When McHale gets put in another GM position, I'll take it all back... he will NEVER be put in that position again. Why in my opinion? McHale cost Minnesota 3 first round picks(originally 4) over 5 years by making a backdoor deal with Joe Smith that is he signed 3 one year contract, he would get a multiyear deal max deal from McHale. Then Stern voided Smith's contract so they lost former #1 pick Smith and a first round pick in 2001, 2002, 2004 and 2005 (the NBA restored the 2005 pick). Kahn is a moron and kept a guy who almost cost them 4 out of 5 years of first round picks. Best believe if McHale was fired for what he did in 2000 then he never would have sniffed a GM position again (not that I think he ever will). Would you hire a guy who cost a team their first round picks for that many years?

Morey is the GM making all the right moves right now, not McHale. Morey has flipped 13 of the 15 players and has the cap room to sign a max player at the same time.

There is one thing about the modern sports. If you take a TV job, people think you are really smart and think you can do a better job than their current coach. It's the same reason Gruden will always be rumored as on the short list of X's team. I'm not saying McHale is a bad coach. I'm saying that his chum chum relationship with Ainge lead to his horrible moves in Minnesota near the end. But let's not act like Ainge came knocking asking for McHale... McHale's goal was to trade KG to Boston before the draft and KG refused. In fact you can see in articles where McHale says he wants to trade KG to Boston before the draft. Suddenly Boston gets Jesus Shuttleworth goes to the C's and all is good for KG. It was a back door deal and it wasn't the first one McHale ever made.

Again, I think your conspiracy theories are full of shit. If the NBA believed that there was a "back door" deal or that McHale sold out his team, he'd never sniff another NBA job again. He's coaching the Rockets, so that disproves that theory.

As for being on TV and being a genius, tell that to Matt Millen. Nor am I going to defend McHale for the stupid Joe Smith thing. But there's a big difference from an incompetent GM to one who is actively screwing his own team. You claimed that McHale purposely fucked his own squad to help his former team, so bringing up incompetency doesn't help your case. Now if you want to claim that he's comfortable with Ainge and that probably made the deal easier to do, then you'd have a point. But he didn't gift the Celtics anything. End of story. Put down the Conspiracy Theory handbook and come back to the real world.

Closer examination of the facts bears that out.

As far as trading KG, do you think that perhaps the Celtics were making the most attractive offer? You know, Occam's Razor? I'll stick with that and not the wild conspiracy theories. Let me know who else was offering a 22 year old big man who had pulled down 16/11 plus picks plus other guys who were attractive to other teams. So who else was offering a deal for KG and how did it all go down? Again, let's look more at the facts.

KG kind of fucked the T-wolves in this whole thing. He let it be known he wanted out and so forced the T-Wolves hand. If he had allowed the trade before the 2007 NBA draft, the rumor was that the Cs were prepared to give up everything that was eventually traded PLUS the #5 choice that year. Many Boston fans felt that was too much for an aging Garnett with that many games under his belt. Even Bill Simmons was against that deal, but rumor has it Ainge would have pulled the trigger. That's a massive price for any player, even KG. But KG declined, the trade fell apart and the Cs dealt that choice for the aging Jesus Shuttleworth.

Other suitors offered less - the Suns (his preferred destination) wouldn't pony up Amare. The Lakers were offering jack shit beyond cap space and a very young, very underachieving Andrew Bynum (who averaged 7/6 that year). Dallas didn't have the cap space. Golden State's deal collapsed over a 1st to Charlotte (if I remember correctly) and then got Jason Richardson and bowed out of the bidding. Of all the young guys/picks dangled in front of the T-Wolves, Al Jefferson plus the rights to TWO lottery picks was easily the best choice. But again, KG kind of rejected the draft-day deal, the Golden State deal fell apart and so nothing got done. The pressure was still on to get a deal done, but the options were drastically limited post-draft.

KG later changed his mind once he thought about playing with Pierce and Allen. The TWolves got the remainder of the package (which many people thought was still pretty good). But it wasn't as good as it could have been had KG not nixed the trade during the draft. But by then there were no more suitors with assets or who could create the draft space. The TWolves were left with few options and the Cs still had the best package out there. So the deal was made. But had KG accepted the deal to the Celtics earlier, it would have been even better for Minny.

[Izulde]

Looks like I'll be getting a Cavaliers #12 jersey in the near future, despite not having a fave NBA team.

[sterlingice]

I can't say I followed the TWolves for a long time but I seem to remember that word was that Minnesota got hosed in the deal. Then again, I can't think of a superstar deal where a team didn't get hosed. It's always going to be two quarters an a couple of nickels for a buck.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

What was the last big free agent that came to Boston? It might surprise a few, but there's a meme going around that NBA players don't want to come to Boston (cold, terrible night life, history of racial strife, threat of Aaron Hernandez)

Who is the Celtics' best free agent signing of all time?

Love it

SI

[murrayyyyy]

Don't get me wrong. I think KG/the media gets a lot of blame in both deals(getting to the Celtics and away to the Nets). It's one of those letting the cat out of the bag things that happens with trade rumors. Someone let's out that a trade is done and then it doesn't happen. When the team trading you (which I legit believe the Clippers had a deal in place) has something go wrong, they suddenly find someone to take you. I think it is what happened back then and this week with KG.

Yeah, maybe I didn't make it clear enough that I think the McHale/Ainge relationship made trades easier/more frequent. We never really know true trades (Kupchak has recently come out about the team Kobe visited/talked to).

I will agree that Jefferson and the one lottery pick (their original one) was tempting enough IMO. Then again, the Wolves drafted 2 point guards with those back to back picks (Rubio and Flynn). It's the other 11 pieces that make no sense in a guaranteed contract NBA (Assuming they weren't all one year deals). Is it enough for the #2 rebounder in the NBA/2nd team NBA defensive player who is 30 years old? For those pieces minus the "junk" I think it was a fair trade. It's those other contracts combined with the deal before that has to make people wonder what McHale was thinking and see it as at least a "strange" coincidence.

Let's not bring up that McHale made two other trades over this time. He traded Brandon Roy to Portland 2006 draft night as part of a three team trade with... Any guesses? That fat Raef LaFrenze contract that Boston had. So three of four deals that he made over 18 months just happen to involve Boston. If Minnesota wanted Randy Foye that bad they should have taken him the pick before he was drafted instead of Brandon Roy (went #7, Roy went #6). Maybe they got soooo lost on draft night that they forgot that Foye was still available at 7.

The only non-Boston trade over that time period was getting PF Juwan Howard for Mike James and Justin Reed from Houston a few weeks before the 07 draft. Six weeks later KG is in Boston but they have Howard... (who is waived three months later and paid his full 14.2 million without playing a game for the Wolves).

Look at his trade history near the end and it involved Boston. Like it or not, those are the facts.

[murrayyyyy]

and to beat a dead horse... this was the reaction from the StarTribune in Minnesota. If this is a positive reaction from the media there...

The good news:

• Jefferson, who by all accounts is a key to this deal for the Wolves, is coming off a breakthrough season. He will give the Wolves solid low-post scoring and rebounding ability.

• Green is a young but promising player who could turn into a reliable scorer.

• Telfair has had his scrapes with the law. But he has, recently, shown signs of maturing. If he can get his head on straight, he will add much-needed depth at point guard.

• The deal -- and the fact that the Wolves will be able to wipe away the salaries of Ratliff ($11.67 million) and Ricky Davis ($6.817 million) after next year, will put the Wolves in very good shape against the league's salary cap going forward.

And now the bad:

• There is a serious lack of experience at some key positions. Among them is point guard (both Foye and Telfair are relatively young) and small forward, where the list includes Green, Gomes and rookie Corey Brewer.

• The Wolves roster, after the reported move, would stand at 17, two over the maximum. The team is negotiating with point guard Troy Hudson for a buyout, and there is a chance Ratliff, coming off back surgery, might not play for the Wolves. Still, further moves will have to be made. The trade, a clear sign the Wolves have committed to start over, could signal the coming of more moves. The team might decide there isn't room for some other veterans in a dedicated youth movement.

The bottom line? The Wolves likely will have to take a step back competitively before taking many steps forward.

Here is how the Wolves' roster would look if the trade, as reported, goes through:

Point guard: Foye, Telfair and Hudson. The Wolves will bet that Foye becomes a leader, Telfair becomes an adult and Hudson becomes a memory.

Shooting guard: Davis, Marko Jaric, Trenton Hassell, Rashad McCants. Some of these names could be gone by the time the season starts. But as it stands, Davis can score and Jaric can play three positions. This is a make-or-break year for McCants.

Small forward: Corey Brewer, Gomes, Green. A lot of potential here, but not a lot of track record, at least not yet.

Power forward: Juwan Howard, Jefferson, Madsen, Craig Smith, Chris Richard. Talk about big shoes to fill.

Center: Mark Blount, Ratliff. Ratliff is coming off back surgery that all but wiped out his 2006-07 season.

[murrayyyyy]

and Boston's favorite guy... sportsguy with his view on how McHale adds another notch to his Celtics legacy

The Sports Guy: The KG trade - ESPN Page 2

[DaddyTorgo]

Man all this trading and blowing up has me wanting to fire up DDSPB3. Aw darn...forgot that I never bought it.

[yeah826]

There's always Fast Break Pro Basketball 3

[molson]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I can't say I followed the TWolves for a long time but I seem to remember that word was that Minnesota got hosed in the deal. Then again, I can't think of a superstar deal where a team didn't get hosed. It's always going to be two quarters an a couple of nickels for a buck.

Looking back at the thread here from then everybody loved the deal for the Celtics, but some people thought the T'Wolves had no choice but to deal Garnett, so under the circumstances, they did OK.

2007 NBA Draft/Offseason Thread - Page 18 - Front Office Football Central

"If the Wolves get Jefferson, Green, Gomes, Ratliff's contract and two 1st rounders, I think McHale did a very good job. A helluva lot better that I ever thought possible as long as McHale was GM.

I guess it's okay for him to take Telfair also"

"As for the Wolves, well, they needed to rebuild, and this gives them lots of assets. They find themselves in a similar position to the Celtics over the past couple of seasons (not surprising, considering just about every player on their roster has worn Green at some point in his career). With a better GM at the helm they'd have the pieces to get something done over the next couple of offseasons."

"I'm all for this trade as a mild Timberwolves fan. They were basically stuck in mediocrity at best if they didn't move Garnett this year. Now they'll probably be flat out bad, but with Jefferson, Randy Foye and Corey Brewer, along with a few other young players they have, a lot of salary room for the future and a probable high draft pick in the 2008 draft, at least there is reason for optimism in the future. "

On the other hand, there was also already a lot of talking (joking around I think), about McHale "helping out" his old team. (because I know whenever I can't get a job somewhere, I definitely want to hurt my own career to help them out anyway, but I think every NBA conspiracy is ridiculous)

[MrBug708]

The Lakers offered Bynum and Odom for Garnett at the time

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

The Lakers offered Bynum and Odom for Garnett at the time

Bynum was a fat, underachieving, immature prospect who averaged 7/6. Hmmm...in that regards, not much has changed.

Odom was better (16/10 - almost the same stats as Al Jefferson), but was already known as a head case, was 28 years old and let it be known he didn't want to go to Minny.

So looking at that, the Cs deal was clearly better.

[korme]

Originally Posted by nol

It probably doesn't help that the Celtics have spent the past five years being one of the more, ahem, antagonostic teams in the NBA.

According to who? As a non-biased fan of the sport, there might have not been a more fun team to root for than the Celtics.