Star Wars: Episode VII

[jeff061]

Civilians can certainly use light sabers, but they shouldn't last more than 1 or 2 seconds against a Sith. That and Rey going from zero to Luke inside an hour is just silly.

I figured the weak spot on the super death star was a nod to the films, I didn't think it would actually work though. That solicited another eye roll.

I don't know. It's a average to above average action flick taking zero risks. I don't understand the universal high praise.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Civilians can certainly use light sabers, but they shouldn't last more than 1 or 2 seconds against a Sith. That and Rey going from zero to Luke inside an hour is just silly.

Was Kylo Ren actually a Sith though? What is the whole 'Knights of Ren'? The guy didn't even know how to build a properly functioning light saber.

Based on his skill level, I'm not even sure he was qualified to clean Vader's bathroom.

[larrymcg421]

Kylo was injured from a pretty strong blast. I think the fight was well choreographed to show that the injury definitely held him back in the battle.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Kylo was injured from a pretty strong blast. I think the fight was well choreographed to show that the injury definitely held him back in the battle.

Maybe not a Sith, I don't know, but certainly trained(by Luke no less) and experienced, even injured he was still going up against a janitor.

[molson]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Civilians can certainly use light sabers, but they shouldn't last more than 1 or 2 seconds against a Sith.

Based on what? These are new characters. At this point, Kylo Ren is certainly no Darth Vader, he's a whiny teenagery douchebag. He had trouble with untrained Rey. I suspect killing his father will help push him further into the dark side and make him more powerful in the long run. But this is the earlier stages of his character.

It seems like a contrast to me, this hate over a plot that's very similar to the older movies, but then also criticism of anything that isn't done identically as it was done before, even though these are completely new characters.

Edit: And Finn is obviously not your average Stormtrooper. Leaving that world and society the way he did shows that he's a unique one-in-a-million light-inspired non-jedi, just like Han Solo. I'd buy Han Solo lasting a while against say, a young, injured Annakin, or even Darth Maul. Solo has cheated death so many times, he's not being cut down immediately by anyone. In this universe, he's just protected somehow - he can maneuver asteroid fields, evade bounty hunters, make others miss when they shoot him from close range (according to the special edition anyway). It took the betrayal of his own son who was trained in the force to bring him down, and only in his old age. In this universe, I believe Finn could also only be killed in some dramatic, destiny-inspired moment. He's not being put down by an injured young douchebag in a battle which is really about someone else. I can see how if someone doesn't "buy" that kind of Star Wars dogma, they won't like these movies, but it worked for me because I did buy it.

[stevew]

My thought on Finn is that Finn 2.0 might be mechanically enhanced in the next film. Kinda thought his injury may have affected his spinal cord. Some sort of robotic enhancement might allow him to be even more explosive in fighting situations.

[larrymcg421]

And it's weird to say that Rey's use of the force without training isn't realistic when we've only seen two Jedis getting trained. How do we know Yoda, Qui-gon, Mace, Obi-wan, or any of the other Jedi didn't show similar capabilities before they got trained? I think this simply shows that Rey has the potential to be even stronger than Luke.

Similarly, we know very little about Finn's background or fighting capabilities. It's kind of odd to say there's no way Finn could handle an injured Kylo for as long as he did. You're basing that on circumstantial evidence from the same movie that says he can do it.

[Vince, Pt. II]

My major beef with the movie:

Spoiler

Han Solo goes down with his ship, damn it. Preferably in an off-camera way as he goes off to do something that is ridiculous even for him.

I mean, I understand why, because PLOT, but still.

[chinaski]

Saw it last night, completely underwhelmed. That was some piss poor basic fanboy writing. Im boggled by the amazing reviews of the movie. Just an overly polished version of the original. Pretty bummed out about it, im a massive Star Wars fan too.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

My major beef with the movie:

Spoiler

Han Solo goes down with his ship, damn it. Preferably in an off-camera way as he goes off to do something that is ridiculous even for him.

I mean, I understand why, because PLOT, but still.

Yeah I figured he would have crashed it into a shield generator to save Leia or something.

I pretty much knew he was dying based on trailers and just my general thoughts about what the movie would be.

Chewie still being around does open it up for some cool wookie stuff to perhaps happen.

[wade moore]

And for me.. I can't understand how Star Wars fans think this was a bad movie. I think that it is proof of how hyper critical and wanting to hate we are. If you like Star Wars and didn't like this, IMO, you'll never be satisfied.

Have you gone back and watched 4, 5, and 6 with the same critical eye that some of you are watching this? There is a LOT to pick apart in the original trilogy.

Like others in this thread, I felt this was a solid Star Wars movie that was very much in spirit with the original 3, but with much better acting and obviously effects.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by wade moore

And for me.. I can't understand how Star Wars fans think this was a bad movie. I think that it is proof of how hyper critical and wanting to hate we are. If you like Star Wars and didn't like this, IMO, you'll never be satisfied.

Have you gone back and watched 4, 5, and 6 with the same critical eye that some of you are watching this? There is a LOT to pick apart in the original trilogy.

Like others in this thread, I felt this was a solid Star Wars movie that was very much in spirit with the original 3, but with much better acting and obviously effects.

Movies are about how you were when you first viewed them. Sometimes a movie is different on a second viewing. Star Wars for most of us was probably seen at an age younger than 10 -- how critical are we at 10? We all loved it because of where we are and what we saw from the movie. Now? We are mostly 40ish and at a different part in life.

I thought it was good but not great. That said I enjoyed it. Ask a kid younger than 10 what they thought and I would be amazed if they said they didn't like it.

[wade moore]

Which goes to my point that if you are a Star Wars fan and did not like this, you will just never be satisfied with a new Star Wars movie.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Which goes to my point that if you are a Star Wars fan and did not like this, you will just never be satisfied with a new Star Wars movie.

Sometimes it does feel that Star Wars fans will always be chasing the Krayt dragon.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by stevew

Yeah I figured he would have crashed it into a shield generator to save Leia or something.

I pretty much knew he was dying based on trailers and just my general thoughts about what the movie would be.

Chewie still being around does open it up for some cool wookie stuff to perhaps happen.

TBH, I would have preferred Chewie (or Leia) dying than Hans. Chewie never really seemed critical to the movies and the costume is pure yuck. The Hans story line just seemed potentially endless.

Oh well, I read somewhere that Ford wanted it to end.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Have you gone back and watched 4, 5, and 6 with the same critical eye that some of you are watching this? There is a LOT to pick apart in the original trilogy.

Yup, I agree.

I bought the blu-ray collection and watched Ep IV on my 4k yesterday with the kids. The kids thought it was pretty good considering it was from the late 70's.

[TexasT]

I loved it

[molson]

The original trilogy pioneered the most brilliantly lazy plot-crutch in movie history, the force. The force is the answer to everything, including things that otherwise wouldn't make any sense. The new movie had that little joke that played into that. "We'll use the force!" "That's not how the force works!"

[Mota]

My 11 year old son couldn't sit through any of episodes 4-6 when we rewatched them recently. He was riveted with episode 7 and wouldn't stop raving about it for the past 2 days. This is HIS Star Wars.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Mota

My 11 year old son couldn't sit through any of episodes 4-6 when we rewatched them recently. He was riveted with episode 7 and wouldn't stop raving about it for the past 2 days. This is HIS Star Wars.

My wife is 20+ years older, but this describes her too... 'made' her watch 4-5-6 before 7 and she was only mildly interested/browsing the ipad the whole way through. As soon as we walked out of the cinema she was asking me when the next one is released and talking about buying tickets to IMAX.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by molson

Based on what? These are new characters. At this point, Kylo Ren is certainly no Darth Vader, he's a whiny teenagery douchebag. He had trouble with untrained Rey. I suspect killing his father will help push him further into the dark side and make him more powerful in the long run. But this is the earlier stages of his character.

Uh... we know that Kylo Ren didn't just start training. We know that he turned to the dark side at least 10, if not 20 years ago. Because Leia and Han have obviously not seen each other for years and Luke has completely disappeared for a long while. We know Kylo Ren has a Dark Side master - Supreme Leader Snoke. All of that indicates that Kylo Ren isn't some newbie and knows his way around the force a bit.

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

And it's weird to say that Rey's use of the force without training isn't realistic when we've only seen two Jedis getting trained. How do we know Yoda, Qui-gon, Mace, Obi-wan, or any of the other Jedi didn't show similar capabilities before they got trained? I think this simply shows that Rey has the potential to be even stronger than Luke.

Well, aside from the fact that one of those two trainees had the highest midicholorian count in history, even over Yoda (and the movie had open speculation over whether he was conceived by midicholorians). And we've seen his training and how much mastery he had over the force before training.

---

As for people saying that those who didn't like Ep 7 wouldn't have been satisfied with anything - that's ridiculous. I watched Ep 4 today again (the girlfriend hasn't seen it in a long while and forgotten most of the series and wanted to rewatch the series after seeing Ep 7). People try to make the comparison that Luke is as much a Gary Sue as Rey is a Mary Sue - which rewatching Ep 4 just shows is a complete farce of an argument. For example, piloting skills. Ep 7 fans indicate that Luke just randomly is as good as piloting out of the blue as Rey turns out to be, but in Ep 4 at least on THREE separate occasions Luke's skills as a pilot are referred to - Obi-Wan says that he has heard Luke is a great pilot, Luke refers to it himself when Han says they can afford a ship but who's going to fly it, and Biggs vouches for Luke to the General by saying that Luke is the best pilot in the outer rim. So yeah, not even close.

Oh, btw, the gf, who had forgotten a lot of Ep 4 came away from it thinking that Ep 7 was basically a remake of Ep 4 (though has less disappointment from Ep 7 due to the fact that she couldn't remember much of Ep 4).

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JAG

Can I ask, what does everyone hate about Episode 3? I get that 1+2 are pretty lousy movies. 3 has some cringe-worthy and head-shaking parts, but overall I thought it was pretty good.

No argument from me, on Ep 3. On some days, I'll put it above Ep 6, depending on how I'm feeling .

[wade moore]

Issidiqui - you are really just proving my point. They may not be as direct about it, but they very much imply that Rey has pre-existing piloting skills. That's really the only specific you bring up.

At a minimum, the acting is dramatically better in episode 7 than episode 4. People are just all forgiving about 4-6 and then nitpick the living shit out of 7. But was a Star Wars movie. A very good one. Enjoy it for goodness sake!

[Groundhog]

3 is the better of the prequels, but I always found that knowing what was going to happen before we saw it reduced the suspense/tension a great deal...

[Groundhog]

Well, aside from the fact that one of those two trainees had the highest midicholorian count in history, even over Yoda (and the movie had open speculation over whether he was conceived by midicholorians). And we've seen his training and how much mastery he had over the force before training.

Well, there's the answer right there - clearly SHE is now the midicholorian record holder. I don't know, maybe being directly related to the previous record holder by blood is the reason? Or any other fictional reason the creative team can invent.

I think long-time fans are expecting waaaaay too much of Star Wars. This isn't an Arthur C. Clarke script plotting out realistic future science scenarios. It's Sci-Fi Fantasy tale of good vs evil starring a bunch of space samurai with magical powers.

[Mota]

Honestly, with all this negativity here you'd think that it wasn't a great movie. For me, this is the ONLY place where I've heard any noticeable amount of negativity. We nitpick on FOFC. It's what we do. From most other media, review sites, fan sites, friends, etc, it seems like most people loved it.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Issidiqui - you are really just proving my point. They may not be as direct about it, but they very much imply that Rey has pre-existing piloting skills. That's really the only specific you bring up.

Where do they mention it? And that's just the piloting issue. The whole she is as powerful as a Jedi Knight after hours of exploring the Force is the greater sin.

At a minimum, the acting is dramatically better in episode 7 than episode 4. People are just all forgiving about 4-6 and then nitpick the living shit out of 7. But was a Star Wars movie. A very good one. Enjoy it for goodness sake!

Who's forgiving of Ep 4-6? This is just strawmen here. And saying 'just enjoy it' because it was a Star Wars movie is ridiculous. Did you say the same for the prequels (who I thought people were a bit too harsh on, but Ep 1 and Ep 2 weren't good movies and folks were right to call them out on it).

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Did you say the same for the prequels (who I thought people were a bit too harsh on, but Ep 1 and Ep 2 weren't good movies and folks were right to call them out on it).

I was really hard on the prequels when they originally came out. While they will never be considered great cinema, when I rewatched them recently I found out I may have been too hard on them originally.

Probably their biggest sin, in comparison to other Star Wars movies, was that I wasn't six when I first watched them.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Well, there's the answer right there - clearly SHE is now the midicholorian record holder. I don't know, maybe being directly related to the previous record holder by blood is the reason? Or any other fictional reason the creative team can invent.

What, you think they'll make her into the product of midicholorian magic creation? The point of that is that if anyone, Anakin had the most force energy of any known being who came before him. By procreating with a non-force user, obviously that would diminish.

Originally Posted by Mota

Honestly, with all this negativity here you'd think that it wasn't a great movie. For me, this is the ONLY place where I've heard any noticeable amount of negativity. We nitpick on FOFC. It's what we do. From most other media, review sites, fan sites, friends, etc, it seems like most people loved it.

You haven't been many places in the internet I think . There are plenty of articles about how the movie was unimaginative or just simply.. uninteresting. Here is a couple:

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the...-star-wars-yet

Critics are going too easy on Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Vox

No one is saying it isn't a good movie. We're saying that its many flaws prevent it from becoming a great movie. A solid B, but that's it, really (of course I think far higher of the prequels than other folks - I'd give TPM a C, ATC a C+ and RTS a B).

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

What, you think they'll make her into the product of midicholorian magic creation? The point of that is that if anyone, Anakin had the most force energy of any known being who came before him. By procreating with a non-force user, obviously that would diminish.

Why is it obvious that it would diminish? The Force is not real and therefore wouldn't obviously do anything. Maybe Rey is an immaculate conception of the force, or a long lost and forgotten daughter or ancestor of Luke or Anakin, or just the most awesome and powerful Jedi to come yet. All are perfectly reasonable answers in a fictional story and won't matter a great deal if the movie is great.

[larrymcg421]

I've always assumed that Leia used the force (unknowingly) to resist interrogation techniques in A New Hope. I know they never show Vader trying to use the force (just the probe droid) to get the Rebel base out of her, but we have to assume he did. If he didn't, then it makes no sense and we have to sin A New Hope on that point.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Why is it obvious that it would diminish? The Force is not real and therefore wouldn't obviously do anything. Maybe Rey is an immaculate conception of the force, or a long lost and forgotten daughter or ancestor of Luke or Anakin, or just the most awesome and powerful Jedi to come yet. All are perfectly reasonable answers in a fictional story and won't matter a great deal if the movie is great.

It seems to me it'd have to. It'd be mixing with non-force users. I mean even at the end, Vader, who was half machine, was far more powerful in the Force than Luke. If Rey was more powerful than both, my disbelief simply doesn't have room to suspend that much. Having the Force increase in potency with successive generations should result in the Jedi encouraging relationships rather than stamping down on them, then .

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Uh... we know that Kylo Ren didn't just start training. We know that he turned to the dark side at least 10, if not 20 years ago. Because Leia and Han have obviously not seen each other for years and Luke has completely disappeared for a long while. We know Kylo Ren has a Dark Side master - Supreme Leader Snoke. All of that indicates that Kylo Ren isn't some newbie and knows his way around the force a bit.

But, he's not as strong as Darth Vader. He knows that, was called out on that, and it annoyed him to hear that truth. And also, he was shot.

And where are you getting these rules about how strong Kylo Ren is supposed to be after 10 years, or 20 years. Was that established in the previous movies that anyone who trains has a specific level of competence after X number of years?

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

And saying 'just enjoy it' because it was a Star Wars movie is ridiculous. Did you say the same for the prequels (who I thought people were a bit too harsh on, but Ep 1 and Ep 2 weren't good movies and folks were right to call them out on it).

The fact that it's Star Wars is always going to be a selling point for me. That's part of the fun. I actually kind of enjoyed the prequels in the moment, in the theaters, but I don't remember them fondly in retrospect. I liked the new one much more, and am going to see it again on IMAX.

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Who's forgiving of Ep 4-6? This is just strawmen here.

But that's kind of the point here. If you weren't "forgiving" of the originals there was zero chance you'd be forgiving of the new one. Some people are not Star Wars fans and won't buy the silliness of the "force" and everything, and that's totally cool. But it's also OK to like it. The plot elements aren't subjectively 'wrong", and they're something that plenty of fans have no problem "tolerating" (to quote another poster). For lots of us, it's very easy to buy into this universe and the new movie didn't depart from that at all.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by molson

But, he's not as strong as Darth Vader. He knows that, was called out on that, and it annoyed him to hear that truth. And also, he was shot.

And where are you getting these rules about how strong Kylo Ren is supposed to be after 10 years, or 20 years. Was that established in the previous movies that anyone who trains has a specific level of competence after X number of years?

So training doesn't make you stronger? Guess Luke never had to go to Dagoba at all in ESB?

Does it bother you that you have to spin some ridiculous notions like the following in order to allow Rey to as powerful as she is at the end of TFA?

[larrymcg421]

Training makes you stronger, but not everyone can get to the same level with training. Just like steroids definitely make you stronger, but not everyone is going to hit 70 home runs by taking them.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

So training doesn't make you stronger? Guess Luke never had to go to Dagoba at all in ESB?

There's nothing in the movie to indicate the training didn't make him stronger than he was before. And we don't know how say, Darth Maul would have done against Han Solo if Darth Maul had been shot first. (And again, that wouldn't matter, because those are two completely different characters.) You're making up your own universe rules and applying them. If I trained at basketball as much as Michael Jordan, I wouldn't necessarily have the exact same basketball talent, especially if I was shot before our one-on-one game.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by molson

But that's kind of the point here. If you weren't "forgiving" of the originals there was zero chance you'd be forgiving of the new one. Some people are not Star Wars fans and won't buy the silliness of the "force" and everything, and that's totally cool. But it's also OK to like it. The plot elements aren't subjectively 'wrong", and they're something that plenty of fans have no problem "tolerating" (to quote another poster). For lots of us, it's very easy to buy into this universe and the new movie didn't depart from that at all.

Just sit back and enjoy it isn't a compelling argument for anything. I am quite decidedly a fan of Star Wars and one can be that without being completely forgiving of the originals. This whole 'just turn your brain off' style of argument for modern movies is highly, highly distressing (people said the same thing about Jurassic World when it was pointed out that it was basically a remake of Jurassic Park).

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Training makes you stronger, but not everyone can get to the same level with training. Just like steroids definitely make you stronger, but not everyone is going to hit 70 home runs by taking them.

Training is going to make you stronger than not training. It's like Ben Solo was this random Joe. He was a strong Force user - he had enough aptitude that Luke Skywalker took him on for training. Someone with power who has training is going to be more formidable than someone who may have more natural power but without training. For your baseball example, someone who may have more natural talent throwing a baseball isn't going to randomly become a better pitcher than someone who's spend 10 years training in youth and high school baseball.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by molson

There's nothing in the movie to indicate the training didn't make him stronger than he was before.

When's the last time you saw ESB? I watched it last night. Luke goes from being able to call his lightsaber on Hoth with a ton of effort to being able to levitate multiple things at once (including R2D2 and heavy boxes and a few rocks).

If I trained at basketball as much as Michael Jordan, I wouldn't necessarily have the exact same basketball talent, especially if I was shot before our one-on-one game.

Yet someone who trained for years at basketball would be better than a Jordan who had never trained before.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Just sit back and enjoy it isn't a compelling argument for anything. I am quite decidedly a fan of Star Wars and one can be that without being completely forgiving of the originals. This whole 'just turn your brain off' style of argument for modern movies is highly, highly distressing (people said the same thing about Jurassic World when it was pointed out that it was basically a remake of Jurassic Park).

I'm not making an argument, I'm just expressing why I liked it, and why I buy into the universe. And I didn't feel like I had to "turn my brain off" at all.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

It seems to me it'd have to. It'd be mixing with non-force users. I mean even at the end, Vader, who was half machine, was far more powerful in the Force than Luke. If Rey was more powerful than both, my disbelief simply doesn't have room to suspend that much. Having the Force increase in potency with successive generations should result in the Jedi encouraging relationships rather than stamping down on them, then .

Sure, but that's equating the Force with genetics. We don't know how the Force works outside of an airy-fairy pseudo-science explanation of it being a 'force that connects everything' that is able to be manipulated with people based on the presence of midicholorians in their blood and training. Maybe the force doesn't care about genetics or midicholorians, and picks a chosen person per generation based on their worthiness? Maybe midicholorians are the side-effect rather than the cause? Lots of ways writers could go. There is no right or wrong answer because it's fiction. If the movies are awesome, we'll give it a free pass. If they suck, we won't.

At the essence of it, 'The Force' is a sci-fi/fantasy-flavoured mix of bushido and Buddhism based on Lucas' love of Kurosawa and other Jidaigeki films from the 1940s-70s, which themselves were a heavily romanticized view of a time centuries before the films were made.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yet someone who trained for years at basketball would be better than a Jordan who had never trained before.

Jordan would run rings around me no matter how much I practiced or how little he touched a basketball. The athleticism alone would kill me.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Jordan would run rings around me no matter how much I practiced or how little he touched a basketball. The athleticism alone would kill me.

Kylo Ren isn't you (in lacking talent - no offense)... he's... Bill Lambeer

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yet someone who trained for years at basketball would be better than a Jordan who had never trained before.

My point was just that there's no universal rule, either on Earth or in the Star Wars galaxy, that you must have X amount of power if you train X amount of years. There's room for some variation in both worlds. Especially if someone gets shot before a test of power.

But if you think Star Wars should run by the Earth rules of training (i.e., nobody should be good at something unless they train at it), than I can certainly understand why that would be a turn-off in the new movie. It's OK if you don't buy that. A lot of us do, and that's OK too. We're not objectively wrong for buying these rules, some known and some unexplained, of the Star Wars universe. There's definitely a Star Wars dogma that leaves some things to "faith" in an underlying order of things. That makes it inaccessible for some people.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Sure, but that's equating the Force with genetics.

That was the whole point with including midicholorians in the story. It was supposed to make the Force into something genetic that could be measured.

TheForce.Net - Midi-Chlorians - What are Midi-Chlorians?

Midi-chlorians, as explained by the creator of Star Wars, George Lucas:

"Midi-chlorians are a loose depiction of mitochondria, which are necessary components for cells to divide. They probably had something--which will come out someday--to do with the beginnings of life and how one cell decided to become two cells with a little help from this other little creature who came in, without whom life couldn't exist. And it's really a way of saying we have hundreds of little creatures who live on us, and without them, we all would die. There wouldn't be any life. They are necessary for us; we are necessary for them. Using them in the metaphor, saying society is the same way, says we all must get along with each other."

Mitochondrial DNA does get passed on to children.

Now one can surmise that George screwed up when he tried to make it genetic rather than mystical, but it readily appears that he actually really wanted to make the Force into something genetic.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Jordan would run rings around me no matter how much I practiced or how little he touched a basketball. The athleticism alone would kill me.

You might have a chance to hang with him a while if he was shot before your game.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

That was the whole point with including midicholorians in the story. It was supposed to make the Force into something genetic that could be measured.

TheForce.Net - Midi-Chlorians - What are Midi-Chlorians?

Mitochondrial DNA does get passed on to children.

Now one can surmise that George screwed up when he tried to make it genetic rather than mystical, but it readily appears that he actually really wanted to make the Force into something genetic.

Why can't it be genetic and mystical? There's almost certainly some genetic component, we've known that since the big reveal in Empire Strikes Back, but that doesn't mean there's no room for mysticism or that Star Wars universe DNA has to work exactly the same as Earth DNA. (And even Earth DNA doesn't have the perfectly predictive powers you're trying to apply to the Star Wars universe).

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by molson

You might have a chance to hang with him a while if he was shot before your game.

Only if it was a crippling shot to his spine!

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by molson

Why can't it be genetic and mystical? There's almost certainly some genetic component, we've known that since the big reveal in Empire Strikes Back, but that doesn't mean there's no room for mysticism or that Star Wars universe DNA has to work exactly the same as Earth DNA.

Of course its both, but people want to completely toss out the genetic part in order to fanwank Rey's amazing ability to be a master Force user in a few hours. It was just bad writing by JJ Abrams.

I think ESB indicates that Star Wars DNA works somewhat like Earth DNA. The Force is kinda like sports talent. You can have absolutely loads of it, but if you don't train you aren't going to unlock any of that.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Of course its both, but people want to completely toss out the genetic part in order to fanwank Rey's amazing ability to be a master Force user in a few hours. It was just bad writing by JJ Abrams.

I think ESB indicates that Star Wars DNA works somewhat like Earth DNA. The Force is kinda like sports talent. You can have absolutely loads of it, but if you don't train you aren't going to unlock any of that.

But young Anakin Skywalker was gifted enough to win a pod race, which was presented as very unusual.

[larrymcg421]

Well if they're ignoring the genetic aspect introduced in the prequels, then I think it's a point in TFA's favor.

But I don't think they have to do that. There's literally nothing in the movie series to suggest Rey can't be stronger than a wounded Kylo Ren.