Alright boyz, here we go!!! Eastside Hockey Manager 2007 First Impressions Thread!

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by kserra

Also, the computer doesn't seem to consider my team needs when making offers...I'll put down that I'm looking for "young prospects" and end up with a bunch of offers that have 30 year players...

I'm hoping the patch helps out the GM portions of the game...

yeah, I've noticed this too. I have yet to put my teams needs as "junk you are just going to waive anyway", but that's all I get offered

[Sweed]

For those interested in facepacks there is a very good one here from Devils88..

http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums...gory&cat_id=44


Split up into 4 files all players have a large action shot (updated with the player on his current team) with an inset standard player photo. Screenshots are in each thread.

The best facepack I have ever d'loaded for any of my text sims.

[Sweed]

doal

They also have some other nice d'loads including center ice NHL logos, new rink elements (red and white center line, blue goal crease, bench and penalty box improvements) and other graphical addtions.

http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/dload.php

[Joe Canadian]

Props to SI, I've been seeing the EHM banner ad on TSN.ca a lot lately.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Every time this thread gets bumped, I keep expecting to see a link to the new patch.

[Bea-Arthurs Hip]

Updated Change List posted over at SI http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...2992034952/p/1

I hope Riz is looking at AI handling of the the North American minor league teams (ECHL, AHL..) . I often see ECHL teams dressing as low as 12 players. I know it common for teams in leagues such as this to dress under the allowed number. But when I see that there are roster positions open it is very frustrating , especially since I would love to take a shot at some of the lower league teams.

The other problem is the AHL. There is no reason why these teams should not field a full line up. There are no roster limitations and and no salary cap. Yet again the AI fails to field full lineups.

I have not looked at the CHL & the UHL but I suspect it is similar to the ECHL.

I really see this as a show stopper as I want to play EHM like I do FM. Start in the low minors and work my way up. But after seeing this in the last version and postings over at the SI bug forums with no response I dont see this getting addressed.

[King of New York]

This patch had better be good, and everywhere it says "tweaked" on the changelist, I hope they mean "fixed."

This game could be so great, but any sports sim that cannot tabulate scoring correctly, that has serious player development issues (i.e., players don't develop and most of them regress), that has AI roster management issues which leave other teams incapable of fielding a full complement of players, that has board issues (the board expresses anger after half of your losses, including shoot-outs to much stronger opposition, without reacting to successes)...well, that's a lot of problems. And those are just the ones off the top of my head.

If the patch is great, then all will be forgiven. If.

[Joe Canadian]

It still boggles my mind that the development team went on vacation (or "out of the office") almost right after they released the game.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Bea-Arthurs Hip

Updated Change List posted over at SI http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...2992034952/p/1

I hope Riz is looking at AI handling of the the North American minor league teams (ECHL, AHL..) . I often see ECHL teams dressing as low as 12 players. I know it common for teams in leagues such as this to dress under the allowed number. But when I see that there are roster positions open it is very frustrating , especially since I would love to take a shot at some of the lower league teams.

The other problem is the AHL. There is no reason why these teams should not field a full line up. There are no roster limitations and and no salary cap. Yet again the AI fails to field full lineups.

I have not looked at the CHL & the UHL but I suspect it is similar to the ECHL.

I really see this as a show stopper as I want to play EHM like I do FM. Start in the low minors and work my way up. But after seeing this in the last version and postings over at the SI bug forums with no response I dont see this getting addressed.

SI is really dropping the ball on there releases IMHO. First, with OOTP and now this EHM. It pisses me off since they are taking good indie type games and are fucking them up trying to force the FM rule set for everything.

[Joe Canadian]

Originally Posted by Galaril

SI is really dropping the ball on there releases IMHO. First, with OOTP and now this EHM. It pisses me off since they are taking good indie type games and are fucking them up trying to force the FM rule set for everything.

I'm sorry, but as much as I have a problem with how SI handled the release of this game... the SI versions of EHM are MUCH MUCH better than the freeware versions.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Joe Canadian

It still boggles my mind that the development team went on vacation (or "out of the office") almost right after they released the game.

Why?

[Joe Canadian]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Why?

Because there is an expectation in this genre of games that after release the developers will begin work on a patch.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by King of New York

This patch had better be good, and everywhere it says "tweaked" on the changelist, I hope they mean "fixed."

This game could be so great, but any sports sim that cannot tabulate scoring correctly, that has serious player development issues (i.e., players don't develop and most of them regress), that has AI roster management issues which leave other teams incapable of fielding a full complement of players, that has board issues (the board expresses anger after half of your losses, including shoot-outs to much stronger opposition, without reacting to successes)...well, that's a lot of problems. And those are just the ones off the top of my head.

If the patch is great, then all will be forgiven. If.

Pretty much exactly how I feel... throw in trade and waiver AI that has clearly not been improved at all since last year and this is by the far the most disappointed I have been in a game release for a long time.

Having said that, if the patch addresses all of the issues above (well maybe not the trade and waiver AI - I can't imagine that is going to get fixed anytime soon), it still could still be the my most played game of the year. God knows I got months and months out of EHM 2005.

I still cannot believe some of these issues did not get picked up in testing, but I guess that is another topic altogether.

[jbmagic]

Is it safe to say that last year version is much better than this year version?

[Joe Canadian]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Is it safe to say that last year version is much better than this year version?

No.

[SackAttack]

I bought this year's version more or less on release and haven't played it in two weeks.

Granted, been busy with other things, but I haven't even had the desire, which is rare for me and hockey.

[chrisj]

Originally Posted by Joe Canadian

Because there is an expectation in this genre of games that after release the developers will begin work on a patch.

Then perhaps people should lose that expectation?

Personally, I see the exact opposite. These guys work *hard* for 11 months to get to release day. Release comes. They spend a week for any serious problems that made it in the release build. At that point, they deserve their two week vacation before working on the next patch and the next version.

[Joe Canadian]

Originally Posted by chrisj

These guys work *hard* for 11 months to get to release day. Release comes. They spend a week for any serious problems that made it in the release build. At that point, they deserve their two week vacation before working on the next patch and the next version.

Agreed 100%! Problem is that they haven't reached the point where the serious problems aren't gone. Scoring is out of whack, and the AI is offering mid-level players maxed out contracts... those are serious issues. I have no problem with the dev team taking a break if all that is needed are quick clean up fixes, that is not the case here, IMO.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Joe Canadian

I'm sorry, but as much as I have a problem with how SI handled the release of this game... the SI versions of EHM are MUCH MUCH better than the freeware versions.

I'm not seeing that. I still play the EHM freeware version quite a bit and have never been sucked in by an SI EHM demo.

[Cork]

Originally Posted by Galaril

SI is really dropping the ball on there releases IMHO. First, with OOTP and now this EHM. It pisses me off since they are taking good indie type games and are fucking them up trying to force the FM rule set for everything.

Right after I purchased OOTP2006 I felt exactly the same way, but after getting used to the game I no longer feel that they are trying to ruin these games. That being said, I feel that SI needs to take a closer look at their development process.

This is 2 releases in a row where the base game, while playable, suffers from a multitude of bugs and odd design decisions. While future patches will most likely resolve most of the issues, those who purchase the game from the outset are the ones who pay the price by having to wait for the game to be patched properly.

For example, OOTP2006 was released almost 2 months after the start of the baseball season. I will make the assumption that most sports gamers like to play these games during the corresponding season at a minimum which makes waiting for patches more painful. In the case of OOTP2006 it meant waiting until nearly 2/3 of the baseball season was over. That is a long time to wait to begin playing a game. While I applaud SI for eventually getting OOTP2006 patched to a point where the game is enjoyable, I have to frown a bit when I realize that the game will never get any better due to the ultimate push for OOTP2007.

I think SI is walking a fine line with these types of games by trying to go into the "we have to release a new game every year" mode because as we have already seen, they are not capable at this point in time of releasing a game that is fine tuned at the outset. I do think that by expanding the size of their external beta testing teams and by being able to build upon a solid engine both the OOTP and EHM series will prosper and grow to rival SI's flaship series, FM. Unfortunately this is going to cost the user quite a bit or force us to skip a few versions while we wait for the game to reach a point that each of us desires.

Sorry for being a bit long winded here.

-Cork

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Joe Canadian

Agreed 100%! Problem is that they haven't reached the point where the serious problems aren't gone. Scoring is out of whack, and the AI is offering mid-level players maxed out contracts... those are serious issues. I have no problem with the dev team taking a break if all that is needed are quick clean up fixes, that is not the case here, IMO.

I don't think those issues are serious enough to warrant burning your programmers out even more than they already are. If SI decided to give everyone time off, that tells me that they were probably past the point of diminishing returns. Better to get them a week or two off and then get them back to fix everything right.

Now, a possible alternative situation might have been not burning the programmers out right before release. Maybe giving them 2 weeks off while QA\Beta knocked away at it, then have them come back to a big list of issues...but this is not the way the gaming industry seems to work. Get it out by x date in a "playable" state and rake in the dough.

[Cork]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

I don't think those issues are serious enough to warrant burning your programmers out even more than they already are. If SI decided to give everyone time off, that tells me that they were probably past the point of diminishing returns. Better to get them a week or two off and then get them back to fix everything right.

Now, a possible alternative situation might have been not burning the programmers out right before release. Maybe giving them 2 weeks off while QA\Beta knocked away at it, then have them come back to a big list of issues...but this is not the way the gaming industry seems to work. Get it out by x date in a "playable" state and rake in the dough.

Since this is indeed the reality of the industry, I also think that taking a short vacation to "recharge the batteries" is perfectly acceptable if there are no game breaking bugs at release.

I would rather have a rested development staff working on patches than a burned out staff trying to do this.

-Cork

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Cork

Since this is indeed the reality of the industry, I also think that taking a short vacation to "recharge the batteries" is perfectly acceptable if there are no game breaking bugs at release.

I would rather have a rested development staff working on patches than a burned out staff trying to do this.

-Cork

It should also be noted that they did release 2 patches after initial launch.

[Draft Dodger]

I couldn't care less when they take a vacation. the game was pretty stable at launch and they put out a couple of quick patches. sounds fine to me.

[Galaril]

I think SI should start to at least entertain the idwa of some type of open beta to say their board members and few others(FOFC), in the future before they start to alienate themselves with their user base. Just a thought.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I think SI should start to at least entertain the idwa of some type of open beta to say their board members and few others(FOFC), in the future before they start to alienate themselves with their user base. Just a thought.

When I was a researcher for EHM 1, we were given beta copies of the game.

[Cork]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I think SI should start to at least entertain the idwa of some type of open beta to say their board members and few others(FOFC), in the future before they start to alienate themselves with their user base. Just a thought.

I think the beta team for OOTP2007 was expanded in size.

-Cork

[King of New York]

Yes, EHM 2007 is fairly stable--I only had a couple of CTDs.

Still, picture this: FOF 2K6 is released with the following problems:

1) On touchdown passes, the quarterback is not credited with completing a touchdown
2) Teams get 25-30 offsides penalties called on them in a single game
3) Your opposition is not too hard to beat, as they only field a team of 30 players, 10-15 of whom are injured on any given Sunday
4) The majority of your draft picks bust, year in, year out--and so do your veteran players

That's pretty much what we got upon release. Some of these problems have been fixed already, but a lot of them have not. I guess I am supposed to be heartened by SI's announcements trumpeting the fact that "you can now sort left wingers from Manitoba by their maternal grandmother's maiden name!" Oddly enough, though, I'm not.

[MizzouRah]

King of NY,

Jim doesn't release games until he's ready to, period. So that would NEVER happen.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

When I was a researcher for EHM 1, we were given beta copies of the game.

Obviously, what has been done in the past isn't working and that is why ther eshould be a limited if not full blown PUBLIC beta process just like Shaun does at Puresim or Clay at Baseball mogul.

[Joe Canadian]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

I couldn't care less when they take a vacation. the game was pretty stable at launch and they put out a couple of quick patches. sounds fine to me.

Stable, yes. Playable, IMO, no. Now I'm not about to swear off SI & Riz, I just think that some of these issues should have been addressed first. Riz AND SI have done an incredible job with this franchise.

[King of New York]

Interesting post from Graeme Kelly today:

"We'll release the patch as soon as we are able to. We're only in early testing and there are serious issues to be fixed. I'm sorry you are having so many issues with the game, but the patch just is not ready to be released just now - it has had literally 1 day's testing, and the feedback we are getting show us that it requires more work."

As frustrated as I've been with EHM 2007, I found this post rather heartening--it's the first post I've seen in which someone from SI has acknowledged that "there are serious issues to be fixed." The breeziness of SI posts up to this point had me thinking that they did not grasp how much work they needed to do on this game. Finally, I sense that they understand the extent to which this game was released in an unfinished state. I am also glad that they are not rushing out a half-*ssed patch just to get us all to shut up--I would much rather wait a few more weeks and get a great patch that allows me to play the game enjoyably.

As for the coders going on vacation right after release--well, I'm torn. I have no doubt that Riz and Graeme worked like fiends on the game, and I do not begrudge them some time off. On the other hand, it's rather unusual for folks to launch a new product and then immediately vanish for awhile while the customers are yammering for the product to be put into working order.

[KJDelaney]

All,

Given my current work/travel schedule as well as my recent move to Texas, I have not had a chance to really play this game as much as I would like.

However....

Is the game now REALLY that bad/buggy? I for one have not seen it, but, as stated above, I have probably not played it as much as all of you.

The one thing that I did notice, and it is not that much of an issue, is that watching the games, there is hardly ever a long distance goal, like from the blue line or high in the slot, etc. They all seem to be breakaways.

[Marc Duffy]

King of New York, you'll find that it's something we do with all our titles as the run-in to games releases can be pretty intense and the devs need to take a break and recharge the batteries.

it also allows us to evaluate the feedback fairly.

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by KJDelaney

All,

Given my current work/travel schedule as well as my recent move to Texas, I have not had a chance to really play this game as much as I would like.

However....

Is the game now REALLY that bad/buggy? I for one have not seen it, but, as stated above, I have probably not played it as much as all of you.

The one thing that I did notice, and it is not that much of an issue, is that watching the games, there is hardly ever a long distance goal, like from the blue line or high in the slot, etc. They all seem to be breakaways.

The best thing I can say is judge the game based on your own experiences and not of others. I'm not saying there are no problems but you shouldn't do a jbmagic

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

The best thing I can say is judge the game based on your own experiences and not of others. I'm not saying there are no problems but you shouldn't do a jbmagic

Your very professional always taking stabs at me.

I played the games and also read what others said too. I form my opionions on games played and what others say too. I think you just don't like it when someone finds negative things.

If taking stab at me is going to lessen the concerns people have with the games than go ahead and continue if that makes you look good and gets you off the hook.

Whats funny people that played the game and have concerns you still don't believe them it seems.

Your always postive attitude is going to get old by many people and not take you so seriously one day.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Your very professional always taking stabs at me.

I played the games and also read what others said too. I form my opionions on games played and what others say too. I think you just don't like it when someone finds negative things.

If taking stab at me is going to lessen the concerns people have with the games than go ahead and continue if that makes you look good and gets you off the hook.

Whats funny people that played the game and have concerns you still don't believe them it seems.

Your always postive attitude is going to get old by many people and not take you so seriously one day.

I don't remember the post where he said they didn't take concerns seriously. did you play EHM2005? they seemed to nail that one down pretty well.

[Bea-Arthurs Hip]

Any news on the patch? I have not seen anything over at the SI boards as far as an expected date.

[KJDelaney]

It will be out, when it's ready!!!!!

Gee, now I sound like every other douche-bag that says someting to that effect.


Honestly, no idea.

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I think SI should start to at least entertain the idwa of some type of open beta to say their board members and few others(FOFC), in the future before they start to alienate themselves with their user base. Just a thought.

We do that already!

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

I don't remember the post where he said they didn't take concerns seriously. did you play EHM2005? they seemed to nail that one down pretty well.

No but he read a lot of peoples comments about EHM2005 and cross-posted in a lot of forums

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by Bea-Arthurs Hip

Any news on the patch? I have not seen anything over at the SI boards as far as an expected date.

You are looking at somewhere in the first two weeks of November potentially. There's loads of stuff fixed and tweaked (and added)

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Your very professional always taking stabs at me.

I played the games and also read what others said too. I form my opionions on games played and what others say too. I think you just don't like it when someone finds negative things.

If taking stab at me is going to lessen the concerns people have with the games than go ahead and continue if that makes you look good and gets you off the hook.

Whats funny people that played the game and have concerns you still don't believe them it seems.

Your always postive attitude is going to get old by many people and not take you so seriously one day.

We take everything seriously, which is why we have a pretty comprehensive changelist for the forthcoming patch.

I don't generally take much of what you say seriously because I question if you even play our games.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

We do that already!

Marc,

Not to be a smart ass but really? Are your initial releases considered betas? I don't remember there ever being an open beta for any of the SI games? I was under the impression that YOU chose your beta testers.

[Oilers9911]

repeat after me jbmagic, YOU'RE. YOU'RE.

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Your very professional always taking stabs at me.

I played the games and also read what others said too. I form my opionions on games played and what others say too. I think you just don't like it when someone finds negative things.

If taking stab at me is going to lessen the concerns people have with the games than go ahead and continue if that makes you look good and gets you off the hook.

Whats funny people that played the game and have concerns you still don't believe them it seems.

Your always postive attitude is going to get old by many people and not take you so seriously one day.

[kserra]

Haven't touched the game since early October...and I'm bummed out...

Patiently waiting for the patch--I'm an SI-fan boy, but man, I'd really like the Computer GM issues resolved soon...

Kevin

[Joe Canadian]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

You are looking at somewhere in the first two weeks of November potentially. There's loads of stuff fixed and tweaked (and added)

Are you serious? The first two weeks of November? Remember that PM you sent me about sales of EHM... that situation is really not going to improve itself with this much of a delay in a patch.

Riz and the team deserve a break, but it makes a lot more sense to start taking breaks AFTER most major issues are fixed.

[jbmagic]

Marc Duffy is losing a lot of respect. You should be replace with someone that will have respect to their fans of the game. Your tone is unacceptable in the position you have. Your not very professional.

And yes again I have try and play EHM 2005 and the new version.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Marc Duffy is losing a lot of respect. You should be replace with someone that will have respect to their fans of the game. Your tone is unacceptable in the position you have. Your not very professional.

And yes again I have try and play EHM 2005 and the new version.

And yet, in this very thread, you had to ask..

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Is it safe to say that last year version is much better than this year version?

So as of three or four days ago you had no opinion to share with the board and you're (that's you're) worried about people taking Marc seriously?

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by Sweed

And yet, in this very thread, you had to ask..



So as of three or four days ago you had no opinion to share with the board and you're (that's you're) worried about people taking Marc seriously?

In Marc position that he holds, he needs to act professional toward others and not act like he does. Thats all I ask from him. Just give me some respect that I have played the game.

Its seems like EHM 2007 has more bugs than last year version so far. People should not be waiting for a patch update this late and SI needs to stop rushing their games out. They made a big mistake with ootp 2006 and now EHM 2007.