Dog kills cat, cat owner shoots dog, dog owner shoots 5 people.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Assuming that there are laws in place that should cover this (and not everywhere has those so I'm taking a leap of faith on that) then I have to ask to make sure that you've both gone up the food chain within law enforcement to try to get satisfaction and if so then taken steps with whatever political entity has authority over the cops.

Kind of like my observation in one of the education threads, the key to getting appropriate action out of folks sometimes is as simple as making it more painful not to do what you want than it is to just do it.

Fair question, of course, and we have done everything they've asked us to do. The problem is that the penalties/punishments are obviously not enough of a pain in the ass. My understanding is that the pet owners (which we had to find on our own because nobody would come out to do that...so my wife has to pack the two kids up in the stroller with a big dog or two on the lose...makes f'ing sense to me) will be "served" and given time to rectify the situation. After that period we were to notify the police again if the dogs were seen on the lose again...which we have at least a half dozen times...then they would be fined an increasing about each time. I'm not sure how long or how many fines they have to get before whatever the next step is.

So, either they aren't fining them or else the fines aren't sufficient enough to make the dog owners smarten up because this is absolutely silly.

As I type this the guys are within an hour or two of completing our fence and gates so at least my wife and girls can play safely in the backyard. Something tells me any fines that these assholes were levied won't come to anything near what I've just paid for this fence...that's what chaps my ass.

[MrDNA]

You know, Johnny, you could get a nice handgun for a lot less than $2,000...

[johnnyshaka]

You are probably right...maybe next time.

[Sgran]

or just misplace some poisoned ground beef.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

We've called the cops several times and the city several times regarding these two dogs who are seen regularly wandering the neighbourhood.

Usually there is a specific animal control number to call, was that included in the list?

I do know I had a dog wandering around my neighborhood late one night obviously lost and had no trouble getting a police car (since animal control had closed for the night, the number rolled over to the police) to come out to check on it. But then again Cary is not exactly crime central so they probably came out because they were bored...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Since it seems to be turning into a night where responsibility counts for shit, I may as well throw this one in the mix too. What the hell, it's not like it's going to make anything worse.

Boy attacked by neighbor's pit bulls | Breaking News | OnlineAthens.com
A trio of pit bulls mauled a 13-year-old this afternoon at an eastside apartment complex.

The teen was returning to his home from the basketball court at Willow Mist apartments on Seagraves Drive at about 12:15 p.m. when a pit bull apparently jumped through the screen window of a neighbor’s apartment, Athens-Clarke police said.

The teen tried to run, but the dog knocked him to the ground and bit his face, abdomen and legs, according to police.

Two smaller pit bulls ran from the same apartment and joined the attack.

“The boy tried to outrun them, but they caught him and tackled him,” police Lt. Keith Morris said. “They just mauled him.”

The teen managed to escape to his apartment, where someone called the police.

“It’s the worst dog attack I’ve seen in my 26 years,” Senior Police Officer Charlie Snyder said.

The teen was taken to Athens Regional Medical Center for treatment.

The dogs’ owner was not home at the time, and police haven’t decided whether to file criminal charges.

Athens-Clarke Animal Control officers took custody of the smaller pit bulls but continue to search for the larger dog that initiated the attack.

re: "haven't decided" -- in case anyone hasn't figured it out from previous stories, Athens-Clarke contains a higher than normal percentage of keystone cops.

re: "jumped through the screen window" -- I swear that reads like something out of a modern big screen comedy. I get this vision of Ben Affleck or Jack Black walking past a window when a pit bull suddenly pounces on them.

re: "two others ran from the same apartment" -- It takes a very special kind of moron to keep three pit bulls in an apartment. If your village is ever looking for a new idiot I can probably find you a good deal locally as we've got an overstock.

[fantom1979]

I have seen cats do that all the time...

[Sgran]

I'm sure it was the teen's fault for displaying fear. You see, dogs can sense fear, and therefore if you're afraid of dogs, then it's your fault when they bite your face off.

[TCY Junkie]

Originally Posted by Sgran

I'm sure it was the teen's fault for displaying fear. You see, dogs can sense fear, and therefore if you're afraid of dogs, then it's your fault when they bite your face off.

There was a pit bull hiding behind a tree on this country road. Our tire must have been afraid of it because as soon as we passed it, it jumped from its hiding spot and started biting the tire. We were laughing, but if it was some kid on a bike they would have been in trouble.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I was just wondering where the part about the location of the dog's attack on the cat came from.

Here's the Charlotte Observer version of the story but it also doesn't say where that happened either.

Around 11 p.m. Wednesday night, the sheriff's office says, a man's pit bull dog attacked and killed a neighbor's cat, and the cat's owner responded by shooting and killing the dog. Then, authorities say, the dog's owner got into an altercation with the neighbor, shooting him and his daughter.

A different version of the story by the same writer appears in the RaleighNews-Observer and adds this detail
Neighbors told reporters at the scene that the dispute actually goes back several months, when the dog bit a girl in the neighborhood.

Pit bull...nuff said.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Pit bull...nuff said.

yup, would anyone read this story with the breed of dog omitted and not assume it was a pit bull?

They should destroy every one of them, if you want a dog get a golden retriever.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And yesterday, a search warrant reveals that there was a second gun on the roof of the pit bull owner's house. Still unclear whether he planted it there as part of a larger plan (police believe they walked into an ambush) or if there was a second intended shooter from his side or what.

Second gun found in Caldwell County shootout - Charlotte- msnbc.com

Meanwhile the 8 year old girl is home after spending 8 days in the hospital, her father remains hospitalized fighting infection from the shooting.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Lathum

yup, would anyone read this story with the breed of dog omitted and not assume it was a pit bull?

They should destroy every one of them, if you want a dog get a golden retriever.

Lathum - I usually cut you slack when a lot of people give you a hard time.

This is a fucking idiotic, piece of shit, uneducated, moronic post even beyond what you usually do.

I hope you think twice before posting such idiotic drivel again.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Lathum - I usually cut you slack when a lot of people give you a hard time.

This is a fucking idiotic, piece of shit, uneducated, moronic post even beyond what you usually do.

I hope you think twice before posting such idiotic drivel again.

ok, how many more kids need to get mauled before it becomes less idiotic?

what if it was your kid? Would you feel the same way?

[sabotai]

Give all of the shitty Pit Bull owners a Golden Retriever, then Golden Retrievers will soon get the same reputation.

[Lathum]

I love it when Wade gets fired up, it's like he wants to be a pit bull when really he is a yorkie.

Teh interwebs are serious places.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Lathum

ok, how many more kids need to get mauled before it becomes less idiotic?

what if it was your kid? Would you feel the same way?

Originally Posted by sabotai

Give all of the shitty Pit Bull owners a Golden Retriever, then Golden Retrievers will soon get the same reputation.

Originally Posted by Lathum

I love it when Wade gets fired up, it's like he wants to be a pit bull when really he is a yorkie.

Teh interwebs are serious places.

The discussion has been had in this very thread multiple times.

In the 70's it was German Shephards.

In the 80's it was Dobermans.

In the 90's it was Rotterweilers.

Now it is Pit Bulls.


This has NOTHING to do with a breed's nature and everything to do with the owners that choose to make them aggressive. They pick large, powerful breeds and teach them to act this way.

Next decade it may be a Mastiff, or Great Danes, or who knows what. The breed is not the issue. If you kill off every Pit Bull on the planet today, there will be some other breed that is "fine" now that is suddenly a danger to society.

It is horrible that this happens to children, but exterminating a breed, making them illegal, whatever shows a complete lack of understanding of the issue - and basic compassion.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by wade moore

They pick large, powerful breeds and teach them to act this way.

Then if need be, we eliminate the ability for them to acquire "large, powerful breeds".

The current generation of pit bulls and mastiffs should be the last one. Mandatory spay & neuter, with draconian penalties for failure to do so.
And even harsher penalties for those who fail to control the fucking monsters they've created.

[molson]

Originally Posted by wade moore

The discussion has been had in this very thread multiple times.

In the 70's it was German Shephards.

In the 80's it was Dobermans.

In the 90's it was Rotterweilers.

Now it is Pit Bulls.

This has NOTHING to do with a breed's nature and everything to do with the owners that choose to make them aggressive. They pick large, powerful breeds and teach them to act this way.

Next decade it may be a Mastiff, or Great Danes, or who knows what. The breed is not the issue. If you kill off every Pit Bull on the planet today, there will be some other breed that is "fine" now that is suddenly a danger to society.

It is horrible that this happens to children, but exterminating a breed, making them illegal, whatever shows a complete lack of understanding of the issue - and basic compassion.

To claim it has NOTHING to do with a breed's nature kills your credibility.

Dog breeds are distinctive. Some are smarter, some are more loyal, some are more aggressive.

It's possible to be a "good" owner and have a non-aggressive pit bull, you just have to be a far better owner than one would need to be with a golden retriever. As long as the world has bad (or even average) dog owners (which will be forever), some breeds are just far more dangerous than others.

If every dog owner in the world were perfect, this wouldn't be a problem. But that's not reality. People claiming, "I have 3 pit bulls and they're all sweet" isn't much comfort to the kid who has his face eaten off.

Pit bulls are banned in a lot of cities, and entire countries and some Canadian provinces. I seriously doubt those areas now have a problem with aggressive golden retrievers.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by molson

To claim it has NOTHING to do with a breed's nature kills your credibility.

Dog breeds are distinctive. Some are smarter, some are more loyal, some are more aggressive.

It's possible to be a "good" owner and have a non-aggressive pit bull, you just have to be a far better owner than one would need to be with a golden retriever. As long as the world has bad (or even average) dog owners (which will be forever), some breeds are just far more dangerous than others.

If every dog owner in the world were perfect, this wouldn't be a problem. But that's not reality. People claiming, "I have 3 pit bulls and they're all sweet" isn't much comfort to the kid who has his face eaten off.

Pit bulls are banned in a lot of cities, and entire countries and some Canadian provinces. I seriously doubt those areas now have a problem with aggressive golden retrievers.

Or German Shephards, or Dobermans, or Rottweilers...

Yet go back to previous generations and we're having this same conversation about those breeds.

Yes - there are some breeds that are more prone to aggression. But that does not mean they naturally eat children's faces off. That's just not the case.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Travis

Like you said though, dog or cat, good owners or bad, they're animals and situations like that will happen sometimes no matter the training, just like some people, no matter their upbringing, will snap and do things highly uncharacteristic of the "norm". It's very sad what happened to your son and hopefully he never has to go through anything like that again.

I haven't really followed this thread at all, but I think this is an important point.

My wife and I adopted a dog from Detroit Animal Control 3 years ago. He was only 3 months old when we got him. We don't know anything about where he came from. He's a shepard mix of some kind, probably with a little doberman, lab, maybe rottweiler. He's a medium sized dog, fluctuating between 50-60 lbs.

I feel like my wife and I have done everything we could with him. We did obedience school when we first got him, we walked him around our little downtown to get him used to people, took him to the dog park and doggy day care to get him socialized with other dogs, worked with him at home, etc.

Everything was great until after the first year or so. He's still a good dog, but it turns out we ended up with a neurotic, highly-strung animal. He's overly protective of my wife. If we're on walks we can't let strangers pet him. There are times when I've been walking him and we pass someone who he just doesn't like for some reason and he'll stripe, lunge a bit and start barking very aggressively at people. We can't leave him tied up outside a store, even for a minute, because he'll do the same thing for certain. He'll even bark agressively at people who come inside our house (new friends, friends from out of town, etc.) who he doesn't know. It sucks.

We've had a dog behavioralist over to see him a few times and have followed everything she says. My wife even takes him out for runs on her bike (5 miles a day or so) to help him burn off his excess energy, but he still has his issues.

I love my dog and wouldn't give him up for anything, but it's not exactly what we had in mind. We hoped that he could travel places with us, we could take him around our little downtown, eat outside while he sits on the sidewalk, take him to some friends, etc. We really can't do these things. It's just too much of a risk. He's never biten anyone, but he certainly could. So, knowing what kind of dog we have and the potential risks associated with him, we structure our lives in a way to do everything we can to ensure he doesn't hurt anyone. So far, so good. *knocks soundly on wood*

That's really just an incredibly long winded way of saying that, even though these are domesticated animals, they are still animals. Regardless of the owner's efforts to train them, they can be unpredictable.

Heck, my wife's cousin has this dog, 100 lbs. German Shepard/Akita mix. She's known to be aggressive to other dogs, but never bit a person until I met her. I had met her for about 20 minutes. I petted her a few times, all was great, and then I bent over her while petting and all of a sudden she snapped and bit my face. Luckily, only one tooth got me. It was an 8 stitch cut running from just under one nostril to the top of my lip. It now looks pretty cool. That said, I have become much more careful around dogs I don't know.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

It was an 8 stitch cut running from just under one nostril to the top of my lip. It now looks pretty cool.

[RendeR]

Pit bull terriers exist because people bred them for their aggression and ability to survive in a fight. They were CREATED to fight in dog fights. This breed didn't exist on its own, it was created for its fighting ability.

Obviously there are some terrible owners in the universe, but if you claim that this breed of dog is not inherently aggressive and instinctually dangerous you're a bloody fool.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

We hoped that he could travel places with us, we could take him around our little downtown, eat outside while he sits on the sidewalk, take him to some friends, etc.

.

I have a golden retriever and these are the kind of things we do with him

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I have a golden retriever and these are the kind of things we do with him

Glad to hear it. Did you guys get him from a shelter? It's pretty rare to adopt a golden retriever from a shelter.

At the time we were looking to get a dog, we were dead set on only getting a rescue. Given the over-crowding problem in shelters and the over-abundance of adoptable dogs in the US, we felt compelled not to buy a dog from a breeder, but do our part to help the over-crowding problem.

After this experience, my wife mentioned that the next time we get a dog she probably would want to know much more about his bloodlines and the like. Again, that's not a sure thing either since dogs from the same litter can be wildly different, but it's a start.

[Lathum]

He was a rescue dog, he was with a family who had kids that were abusive to him. He is 11 but to this day he still cowers when you raise your hand. But he is great with kids, loves people, and is everything a dog should be.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I haven't really followed this thread at all, but I think this is an important point.

My wife and I adopted a dog from Detroit Animal Control 3 years ago. He was only 3 months old when we got him. We don't know anything about where he came from. He's a shepard mix of some kind, probably with a little doberman, lab, maybe rottweiler. He's a medium sized dog, fluctuating between 50-60 lbs.

I feel like my wife and I have done everything we could with him. We did obedience school when we first got him, we walked him around our little downtown to get him used to people, took him to the dog park and doggy day care to get him socialized with other dogs, worked with him at home, etc.

Everything was great until after the first year or so. He's still a good dog, but it turns out we ended up with a neurotic, highly-strung animal. He's overly protective of my wife. If we're on walks we can't let strangers pet him. There are times when I've been walking him and we pass someone who he just doesn't like for some reason and he'll stripe, lunge a bit and start barking very aggressively at people. We can't leave him tied up outside a store, even for a minute, because he'll do the same thing for certain. He'll even bark agressively at people who come inside our house (new friends, friends from out of town, etc.) who he doesn't know. It sucks.

We've had a dog behavioralist over to see him a few times and have followed everything she says. My wife even takes him out for runs on her bike (5 miles a day or so) to help him burn off his excess energy, but he still has his issues.

I love my dog and wouldn't give him up for anything, but it's not exactly what we had in mind. We hoped that he could travel places with us, we could take him around our little downtown, eat outside while he sits on the sidewalk, take him to some friends, etc. We really can't do these things. It's just too much of a risk. He's never biten anyone, but he certainly could. So, knowing what kind of dog we have and the potential risks associated with him, we structure our lives in a way to do everything we can to ensure he doesn't hurt anyone. So far, so good. *knocks soundly on wood*

That's really just an incredibly long winded way of saying that, even though these are domesticated animals, they are still animals. Regardless of the owner's efforts to train them, they can be unpredictable.

We had pretty much the same experience, but I ended up bailing after 6 or so months. I think it was a Pit Bull mix, it wasn't super obvious when we got him what he was. They told us at the shelter he was some sort of boxer mix. But he was so aggressive I couldn't control him. Tried and tried to do things like walking him, he was just too uncontrollable. Looking back, if I would have had a fenced in yard I would have tried harder to make it work. I'd let him out in the back yard on a very long lead(I think 50-75 feet), he'd see a neighbor and go into kill zone mode. In the end with the possible risk of injury to the kids, and never being able to have family over(he almost attacked my grandfather), we took Freddy back to the pound. I assume he was probably destroyed. I spent like 1500 bucks on this dog(and for me that's like a shit ton ton of money) due to him having Parvo when we got him, and of course all the other vet type stuff you do for a pet.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Lathum

He was a rescue dog, he was with a family who had kids that were abusive to him. He is 11 but to this day he still cowers when you raise your hand. But he is great with kids, loves people, and is everything a dog should be.

That's awesome you were able to rescue. It sucks that he was abused like that. I raise my hand to my dog and he doesn't even flinch. God forbid I get a broom, the vaccuum, open or close the blinds, open or close the windows, shake a plastic garbage bag, bump into the rack holding our pots and pans, or any other dozens of things that send him scurrying away in fear, head down, tail tucked firmly between his legs.

He's just a neurotic, overly-sensitive dog. He's gotten incredibly nervous around me just by the fact that I'm tense from playing a computer game. He's put his forepaws up on my lap -- sort of his way of trying to tell me everything is fine -- a couple of different times, once when I was playing Half-Life 2 and twice while I was playing "L4D". And I'm by no means a shouter or yeller. He just senses it.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by stevew

We had pretty much the same experience, but I ended up bailing after 6 or so months. I think it was a Pit Bull mix, it wasn't super obvious when we got him what he was. They told us at the shelter he was some sort of boxer mix. But he was so aggressive I couldn't control him. Tried and tried to do things like walking him, he was just too uncontrollable. Looking back, if I would have had a fenced in yard I would have tried harder to make it work. I'd let him out in the back yard on a very long lead(I think 50-75 feet), he'd see a neighbor and go into kill zone mode. In the end with the possible risk of injury to the kids, and never being able to have family over(he almost attacked my grandfather), we took Freddy back to the pound. I assume he was probably destroyed. I spent like 1500 bucks on this dog(and for me that's like a shit ton ton of money) due to him having Parvo when we got him, and of course all the other vet type stuff you do for a pet.

You guys sound like it you had it worse than us. Our dog isn't quite that bad. When he have folks stay over for a day or two, he may bark at them initially, but he's totally fine after a bit. He'll even crawl up onto their lap sometimes. He's much more likely to bark at a man, especially one who owns (and therefore smells) like another dog.

In some ways it seems like at some point he just defined his "pack" and those in it get the full super excited so happy to see you treatment, and those out of it, not so much. For example, he loves my entire immediate family, my close friends, lots of my wife's close friends, but some of my other friends who weren't around when he was younger it can be a little more touch and go.

It sounds like you made the right choice. At some point you have to cut your losses and realize that the situation isn't good for you or the dog.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

He's just a neurotic, overly-sensitive dog. He's gotten incredibly nervous around me just by the fact that I'm tense from playing a computer game. He's put his forepaws up on my lap -- sort of his way of trying to tell me everything is fine -- a couple of different times, once when I was playing Half-Life 2 and twice while I was playing "L4D". And I'm by no means a shouter or yeller. He just senses it.

Dogs are like that, when my wife cries he is always there up her ass. He knows where we are upset. He really is my best friend.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by wade moore

The discussion has been had in this very thread multiple times.

In the 70's it was German Shephards.

In the 80's it was Dobermans.

In the 90's it was Rotterweilers.

Now it is Pit Bulls.


This has NOTHING to do with a breed's nature and everything to do with the owners that choose to make them aggressive. They pick large, powerful breeds and teach them to act this way.

Next decade it may be a Mastiff, or Great Danes, or who knows what. The breed is not the issue. If you kill off every Pit Bull on the planet today, there will be some other breed that is "fine" now that is suddenly a danger to society.

It is horrible that this happens to children, but exterminating a breed, making them illegal, whatever shows a complete lack of understanding of the issue - and basic compassion.

I'm glad Wade and I can agree on this. People are so up in arms about pitbulls when it's not the breed, it's the owners. And by that I mean people have to take responsibility for their dog. If the dog is aggressive or has those tendencies it's the owners responsibility to control them.

[RainMaker]

Breeds have nothing to do with the attacks, it's just a giant coincidence that pit bulls are responsible for most of the serious dog attacks in this country.

Statistically it is the most dangerous dog in this country. You can argue it's an owners fault or whatever, but the fact is that you are more likely to be attacked seriously by a pitbull than any other dog.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

I'm glad Wade and I can agree on this. People are so up in arms about pitbulls when it's not the breed, it's the owners. And by that I mean people have to take responsibility for their dog. If the dog is aggressive or has those tendencies it's the owners responsibility to control them.

yeah, this makes perfect sense. Thats why you hear about all the St. Bernard attacks because of their shitty owners, or great danes, or labs, or retrievers.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Lathum

yeah, this makes perfect sense. Thats why you hear about all the St. Bernard attacks because of their shitty owners, or great danes, or labs, or retrievers.

Are you even listening?

If we destroyed every single Pit Bull, another breed would become the most dangerous that is far more dangerous than others. And if you go to previous decades, it IS another breed.

They become a status symbl with people that want an aggressive dog.

The only thing destroying Pit Bulls accomplishes is creating a new aggressive breed.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Are you even listening?

If we destroyed every single Pit Bull, another breed would become the most dangerous that is far more dangerous than others. And if you go to previous decades, it IS another breed.

They become a status symbl with people that want an aggressive dog.

The only thing destroying Pit Bulls accomplishes is creating a new aggressive breed.

thanks for proving my point.

never had you pinned for the pit bull thug life type.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Are you even listening?

If we destroyed every single Pit Bull, another breed would become the most dangerous that is far more dangerous than others. And if you go to previous decades, it IS another breed.

They become a status symbl with people that want an aggressive dog.

The only thing destroying Pit Bulls accomplishes is creating a new aggressive breed.

I think this is right. There's obviously a demand for aggressive dogs in the world. Be it for status, dog fighting, guarding property or what not. People have been breeding dogs for thousands of years to meet their various needs and will continue to do so.

Originally Posted by Lathum

thanks for proving my point.

never had you pinned for the pit bull thug life type.

Are you really advocating getting rid of every dog of every breed that could possibly be aggressive? So, not just pit bulls, but dobermans, German Sheppards, Rotweilers, Akitas, etc?

In your perfect world are the only breed of dogs labs and golden retrievers? As noted above, people will find the most aggressive dogs of those breeds and will do what they can to get an aggressive line out of them.

I find it odd.

Listen, there's no doubt that pit bulls, on average, are a much more aggressive and more dangerous breed of dog than most, if not all, other breeds. They also attend to attract rather careless owners who do little to keep this aggression in check. I would certainly be in favor of tight restrictions on ownership of these dogs and strict punishment for anyone who does own them but is careless.

Still, this nuclear option is not a real solution.

[Lathum]

Of course I'm not advocating that. I haven't heard of a sheppard, Rotweiler, or doberman attack since the 70's, 80,s or 90,s.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Of course I'm not advocating that. I haven't heard of a sheppard, Rotweiler, or doberman attack since the 70's, 80,s or 90,s.

A Rotweiler killed an infant in Michigan a couple years back. And an Akita/German Sheppard mix bit my face last year.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

A Rotweiler killed an infant in Michigan a couple years back. And an Akita/German Sheppard mix bit my face last year.

clearly you missed my sarcasm

[CU Tiger]

The major difference I believe is how much damage has been done to the breed through the intentional genetic manipualtion.

You have a breed that is faster,stronger and has 10x the biting force of Sheppards, Dobers, Rooties etc.

Yes it goes without saying that if you outlaw Pits another aggressive dog will become most popular and their attacks will increase.

This is akin to sayng if cars were outlawed, of course horse riding fatalities would increase. Would you then argue that a drunken horse rider is just as dangerous as a drunked auto driver?

Now I do not advocate destroying a breed....but maybe there needs to be better control of it. I don't know.

[Sgran]

I'm a vegetarian with a master's degree in environmentalism. I'm such a left-wing treehugging green that PETA got me on their mailing list and I can't get off.

If there was a vote on whether we should destroy all dogs in an urban setting I would vote "yes". If that meant that cats had to go also I'd still vote yes. i just don't see the place for domesticated animals in an urban (or sub-urban) setting. Want a dog? Buy a farm. Want a fish? cool. Parakeets are also highly entertaining.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Sgran

I'm a vegetarian with a master's degree in environmentalism. I'm such a left-wing treehugging green that PETA got me on their mailing list and I can't get off.

If you were really a left-wing treehugging green, wouldn't being on PETA's mailing get you off?

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Sgran

i just don't see the place for domesticated animals in an urban (or sub-urban) setting. Want a dog? Buy a farm. Want a fish? cool. Parakeets are also highly entertaining.

+1 even though it's totally unrealistic. After coming to the realization that my dogs simply were not house dogs, it was nice to let them outside and run as they please.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by wade moore

If we destroyed every single Pit Bull, another breed would become the most dangerous that is far more dangerous than others. And if you go to previous decades, it IS another breed.

That's like saying if we killed all murderers in the country, rapists would now be designated the most dangerous criminals.

I'm not advocating that, but the fact is that less pitbulls = less attacks.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That's like saying if we killed all murderers in the country, rapists would now be designated the most dangerous criminals.

I'm not advocating that, but the fact is that less pitbulls = less attacks.

Look up the facts.

k, thx.

I'm done with this. Anyone that cares to research it will see that it was other breeds in previous decades. Getting rid of a single breed will accomplish exactly nothing.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

The major difference I believe is how much damage has been done to the breed through the intentional genetic manipualtion.

You have a breed that is faster,stronger and has 10x the biting force of Sheppards, Dobers, Rooties etc.

This is not true. Pit Bulls do not have a stronger bite force than German Sheppards or Rottweilers. A National Geographic show tested the bite forces for these dogs and did two trials for each. The pit bull had a bite for of 130 and 235 (I assume PSI), the German Sheppard got a 130 and 238 and the Rottweiler got a 265 and a 328.

If the pit bull had 10X the biting force, they'd be biting down at 2000-3000 PSI.

YouTube - Bite force competition. Pitbull, Rottweiler, and Shepherd

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Look up the facts.

k, thx.

I'm done with this. Anyone that cares to research it will see that it was other breeds in previous decades. Getting rid of a single breed will accomplish exactly nothing.

That is what the facts say. The CDC shows that pitbulls killed more people than any other breed from the 70's to the start of this decade.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf

And another study over the last 30 years that shows pitbulls have way more bites than any other breed.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Atta...%20Clifton.pdf

Those are the facts. If you have something different, please post.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by sabotai

This is not true. Pit Bulls do not have a stronger bite force than German Sheppards or Rottweilers. A National Geographic show tested the bite forces for these dogs and did two trials for each. The pit bull had a bite for of 130 and 235 (I assume PSI), the German Sheppard got a 130 and 238 and the Rottweiler got a 265 and a 328.

If the pit bull had 10X the biting force, they'd be biting down at 2000-3000 PSI.

YouTube - Bite force competition. Pitbull, Rottweiler, and Shepherd

Interesting...thanks.
I guess thats what I get for believing what I had heard without research.
I am still a bit pessimistic oin the breed, but thats probably a personal prejudice. I owned a rotty for years and he was cuddly and harmless.....never been around pits that much and when I have they seemed skitish.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf

I really want to know who died from the cocker spaniel attack....

[JeeberD]

What I've always heard about what makes pit bulls so dangerous is not that they bite harder than other breeds, but that they bite and don't let go.