Official College Football Thread - Week 10

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by GoCanes

shouldn't Boise face LSU in the NCG?

A question that cant be answered really. It is why a lot of people cant stand the current system. It leaves to many questions unanswered.

The other side that doesnt want the playoff system enjoys the game we seen tonight. A VERY meaningful #1 vs #2 game. A playoff system would take a bit of the importance out of the regular season.

A perfect system we will never have.

Boise St has people question the BCS system every year. Clearly I dont think they are as good as Bama or Oklahoma but with what they have done over the past 5 years its getting hard to doubt them. They just go out there every week and kick the shit out of everyone they play.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GoCanes

I don't have a dog in this fight this year, but what if the following plausable things happen. Alabama, LSU, Georgia and Boise win out. Oklahoma beats Oklahoma State. Stanford loses to Oregon and then in the SEC championship game LSU beats Georgia in a close game (say a TD or less), shouldn't Boise face LSU in the NCG?

If I set aside the question of whether UGA staying close to LSU is "plausible", then in that scenario, I'd give either Alabama (or even Oregon) another crack at LSU before I'd give Boise one.

It's a tough question to me mostly because I have a really really difficult time imagining Georgia looking like they belong on the same field with LSU.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It's a tough question to me mostly because I have a really really difficult time imagining Georgia looking like they belong on the same field with LSU.

This. The SEC East is *terrible* this year. Whether it's UGA or USC, the SECCG might be even more lopsided than last year's debacle.

Part of me would rather see UGA lose to Auburn, beat Tech, and go beat a 2nd-tier Big 10 team in the Outback than suffer the inevitable humiliation of December 3rd. I suspect the former would be better for recruiting. It'd be easier to claim that "we're back on the rise" to kids if you could point to a 10-3 season with a Bowl win--never mind that it would have been the easiest schedule UGA has played in the last, oh, 20 years. LSU (or Bama...the winner really didn't matter) would expose who UGA *really* is this year. Tech or Auburn might even do it.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Personally, I would love to see a Boise vs LSU/AL in a BCS bowl. A dominant defensive teams vs a (supposedly) dominant offensive team.

Unless BSU is in the title game, it's 'Bama versus BSU in the Sugar Bowl.

Originally Posted by Lathum

FWIW every player but one in the first round of last years draft was from a BCS school.

Games are decided by who has the most NFL talent? I would think 'Bama had more than LSU and yet LSU won. Again, BSU beat OU. But hey, keep deceiving yourself that a non-AQ has no business being on the field as another elite team when recent history proves you wrong.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Games are decided by who has the most NFL talent?

You really don't think NFL talent determines who is successful in college football?

[MJ4H]

Affects, influence, not determines, decides.

This argument about "how good is Boise State" is irrelevant to whether or not they play in the NCG. What determines that is their season resume. Have they done enough? Is their list of accomplishments and failures good enough for first or second place in the country. They could be the literal best team in the country, but if they only played 6th grader teams all season, they do not have the resume to play for a NC. In this case, sitting here comparing NFL players is completely pointless. Look at what they did.

Yes, they beat everyone they could. But all they did was beat 6th graders (in this hypothetical reductio ad absurdum). Sorry, the system we use in college football doesn't say ok now let's compare how many players they send to the NFL to try to help their resume. Nor should it.

College football isn't, nor should it be, a beauty contest. What counts is on the field. And that's all that should count.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You really don't think NFL talent determines who is successful in college football?

Yes, but I still don't think you do an eye ball look at a team and say they don't belong due to the lack of NFL talent. Based on NBA talent NC State had no business beating Houston's Phi Slama Jama and yet...

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Yes, but I still don't think you do an eye ball look at a team and say they don't belong due to the lack of NFL talent. Based on NBA talent NC State had no business beating Houston's Phi Slama Jama and yet...

I have probably watched more Boise state than anyone here. IMO just going off an eyeball test they would get destroyed by Bama ans LSU ans probably lose big to Oregon, Stanford, OK state and Oklahoma. Like MJ4H put it, they have largely won against 6th graders.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I have probably watched more Boise state than anyone here. IMO just going off an eyeball test they would get destroyed by Bama ans LSU ans probably lose big to Oregon, Stanford, OK state and Oklahoma. Like MJ4H put it, they have largely won against 6th graders.

Well, to be clear, I wasn't saying they have largely won against 6th graders. I was using a schedule against 6th graders as a reductio ad absurdum argument.

But I was using it because thier schedule is an order of magnitude too poor to be seriously considered for the MNC.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Neuheisel, the coach that won't die. He's got a knack for playing Houdini.

Has to win 8 to save his job

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I have probably watched more Boise state than anyone here. IMO just going off an eyeball test they would get destroyed by Bama ans LSU ans probably lose big to Oregon, Stanford, OK state and Oklahoma. Like MJ4H put it, they have largely won against 6th graders.

Kinda like Oklahoma destroyed them in 2007. Oh, and don't forget when VA Tech beat the shit out of them last year. Oh, wait...........

[MrBug708]

I dont think they would lose to Oklahoma and Stanford and maybe not Oregon either

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Kinda like Oklahoma destroyed them in 2007. Oh, and don't forget when VA Tech beat the shit out of them last year. Oh, wait...........

How many players from those teams are on the current roster?

[rowech]

Boise State would lose as many games in the SEC as Oklahoma State, Stanford, etc. would lose in the SEC. That's how good the SEC is. However, I believe you have to win your conference title to be the national champion given the way things are setup right now so Bama's done unless things break right for them.

I would rather see a big boy school play for the title against LSU but if one of those teams slip up, and Boise State still sits undefeated, they should get their shot. It's not the best team they've had there by any means but at some point, we need to really see what would happen. Those who don't want them in it are scared...plain and simple. They will use the one game, 45 days between end of season and bowl game, etc. It's the fear that if they win, their monopoly on college football will come crashing down.

College football has become the SEC, everyone else, then Boise. I'm fine with that but if Stanford and Oklahoma State lose, I want to see it. If they get slaughtered, so be it -- we will know never to make the mistake again. If they hold their own and get beat -- we will know they are equals. If they win -- we will know how ancient the current system really is.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I dont think they would lose to Oklahoma and Stanford and maybe not Oregon either

I think Oregon is explosive but I dont see them matching up very good against the better teams. They can run the ball on anyone but their QB is far from an accurate passer. Any capable defense should be able to control Oregons run attack and make them beat them via the pass and win the game IMO.

While I said in an early post Oregon could lose to Stanford I honestly think Stanford handles them by 10+ points.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I have probably watched more Boise state than anyone here. IMO just going off an eyeball test they would get destroyed by Bama ans LSU ans probably lose big to Oregon, Stanford, OK state and Oklahoma. Like MJ4H put it, they have largely won against 6th graders.

Didn't BSU beat last year's MNC runner-up (Oregon) or am I getting the season mixed up? I could ask my son since BSU has been his favorite team the past couple years.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Didn't BSU beat last year's MNC runner-up (Oregon) or am I getting the season mixed up? I could ask my son since BSU has been his favorite team the past couple years.

LSU beat Oregon opening week this year. Boise beat Georgia.

Boise beat Oregon 3-4 years ago.

[Buccaneer]

Looked it up. Last year BSU opened by beating ACC's champion VT. In 2009, they beat the Pac10's champion, Oregon.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Didn't BSU beat last year's MNC runner-up (Oregon) or am I getting the season mixed up? I could ask my son since BSU has been his favorite team the past couple years.

Originally Posted by jbergey22

LSU beat Oregon opening week this year. Boise beat Georgia.

Boise beat Oregon 3-4 years ago.

BSU beat Oregon in 2008 and again in 2009. They beat VA Tech, Oregon State, and Utah last year.

[Buccaneer]

My son is following this thread and just told me that BSU was the last team to have beaten Oregon at Autzen Stadium.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I have probably watched more Boise state than anyone here. IMO just going off an eyeball test they would get destroyed by Bama ans LSU ans probably lose big to Oregon, Stanford, OK state and Oklahoma. Like MJ4H put it, they have largely won against 6th graders.

You dont really believe that this Boise team with around 15 returning starters that has won like 35 out of 36 games would really lose big to any of them teams do you?

They may lose to all them except Oregon more than 50 percent of the time but they are going to bring a good game to the table. I havent always been on the side of Boise but this team is for real. They have earned more respect then assuming they will get killed by any top 10 team.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

And they keep beating top teams that are put in front of them, yet somehow they don't do enough.

Welcome to the good 'ol boy network: NCAA

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

And they keep beating top teams that are put in front of them, yet somehow they don't do enough.

My son said what do they have to do? Beat an SEC West team to be legitimate? Even then, it can't be the Mississippi teams.

[Buccaneer]

But having said that, we both agree that an undefeated OSU or Stanford should far outweigh an undefeated Boise in the BCS.

[jbergey22]

Football Outsiders prior to yesterdays results has Boise St 2nd in the nation.

Their top 5
1. Alabama
2. Boise St
3. LSU
4. Oklahoma St
5. Oklahoma

They use some formula with SOS included with 2 different formulas. One that takes play by play results and one that takes drive results. They compare it to OPS+ in baseball.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by rowech

Boise State would lose as many games in the SEC as Oklahoma State, Stanford, etc. would lose in the SEC. That's how good the SEC is. However, I believe you have to win your conference title to be the national champion given the way things are setup right now so Bama's done unless things break right for them.

I would rather see a big boy school play for the title against LSU but if one of those teams slip up, and Boise State still sits undefeated, they should get their shot. It's not the best team they've had there by any means but at some point, we need to really see what would happen. Those who don't want them in it are scared...plain and simple. They will use the one game, 45 days between end of season and bowl game, etc. It's the fear that if they win, their monopoly on college football will come crashing down.

College football has become the SEC, everyone else, then Boise. I'm fine with that but if Stanford and Oklahoma State lose, I want to see it. If they get slaughtered, so be it -- we will know never to make the mistake again. If they hold their own and get beat -- we will know they are equals. If they win -- we will know how ancient the current system really is.

I pretty much agree with rowech on this one. If the right cards shake out in end, then give them a shot.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Kinda like Oklahoma destroyed them in 2007.

It's funny how the legend of this victory has been magnified out of proportion. Boise beat a 2-loss Oklahoma team that backdoored their way into the Big XII title game after getting whipped by Texas 28-7 earlier in the year. Before the season started, they had to move Paul Thompson from WR to QB after Rhett Bomar was kicked off the team. They were predicted to win 7 or 8 games before the season started. They gutted out a lot of close wins and got some help when Texas lost twice late in the season. OU was a 6 point favorite over Boise State and lost by one point in overtime to arguably the best Boise State team in history. That 2006 OU team wouldn't even be competitive with this year's OU team. This year's Boise State team might not even score against Alabama or LSU.

[jbergey22]

People must just say ridiculous things because the odds are the teams being compared will not have the chance to prove them wrong.

Sagarin actually rates this years Boise team(the one that "might not even score against Alabama or LSU") a couple points higher than that Boise team.

[Matthean]

'Bama has given up the most points in games against PSU and Florida, who basically has no QB for the second half. I like my odds that BSU would find a way to score.

[Ksyrup]

Re Boise State, coming into this weekend they had a better SOS than Alabama and Stanford. That's going to change given a couple of dogs left on their schedule, but this false construct that the SEC + 3-4 cupcakes automatically destroys BSU's schedule doesn't always hold water.

[Tigercat]

If LSU holds up their end of the bargain, and its Boise, some of you guys who have an actual desire to see Boise in that game might regret it.

The crowd noise advantage, not to mention the overall comfort level, of LSU playing in the Superdome would just amplify the athletic advantage LSU has over Boise. Those athletes versus a great "team" with lesser physical athletes? Flying around in front of a home crowd in the home state? Are you kidding me? Stranger things have happened, but regardless of how great a team Boise is, I would bet on it not being pretty. But what a story it would be if they do pull it off, I guess.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

If LSU holds up their end of the bargain, and its Boise, some of you guys who have an actual desire to see Boise in that game might regret it.

The crowd noise advantage, not to mention the overall comfort level, of LSU playing in the Superdome would just amplify the athletic advantage LSU has over Boise. Those athletes versus a great "team" with lesser physical athletes? Flying around in front of a home crowd in the home state? Are you kidding me? Stranger things have happened, but regardless of how great a team Boise is, I would bet on it not being pretty. But what a story it would be if they do pull it off, I guess.

'Bama dropped to 4th in the AP poll. I don't see BSU jumping 'Bama.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Pretty funny story from Knoxville yesterday, after two kickers went down with injury, a call was made to a nearby frat house to find the 3rd string walk-on. The biggest worry was whether he was going to be sober

Derrick Brodus springs from couch, answers call for a kicker » GoVolsXtra

[Logan]

Check out this catch by Mohamed Sanu. On 4th and 9, making this led to the game-tying score and then an OT victory. Make it to the replay, the broadcast angle doesn't really show it.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

My son said what do they have to do? Beat an SEC West team to be legitimate? Even then, it can't be the Mississippi teams.

I'm an SEC fan and I will give Boise their due. I do think they can compete in the SEC East or West and do well. AR is #3 in the West after LSU and AL and I'm pretty sure BSU would shred our secondary and make a game out of it.

However, I don't think they will maintain their pristine win-loss record in the SEC. Top 25 sure, but in the BCS discussion every year - no.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

If LSU holds up their end of the bargain, and its Boise, some of you guys who have an actual desire to see Boise in that game might regret it.

The crowd noise advantage, not to mention the overall comfort level, of LSU playing in the Superdome would just amplify the athletic advantage LSU has over Boise. Those athletes versus a great "team" with lesser physical athletes? Flying around in front of a home crowd in the home state? Are you kidding me? Stranger things have happened, but regardless of how great a team Boise is, I would bet on it not being pretty. But what a story it would be if they do pull it off, I guess.

This is the only argument I don't understand - I can see the argument to keep BSU out, I can see the argument that they'd have a couple of losses in the SEC, but I don't get the sentiment that they just have no chance to compete whatsoever, as if they're some kind of high school or lower division team. I mean LSU would be a favorite, maybe by 12 or 13 points. If they played 100 times, LSU would win most of the time, they'd have a few blowouts, but Boise St. would win plenty as well. It's not like Boise St. is this huge enigma and is actually a Northwestern State or Florida Atlantic-caliber team and we'll all find that out if they ever played LSU. I mean, Boise St. is certainly better than Georgia, probably a lot better. Which makes them better than most of the SEC. Certainly good enough to pull an upset here and there, and at least have a chance to compete with anyone. I think the "Boise St. would obviously get destroyed by any real team" argument may have been in play a few years ago, but I don't think it is with this current team.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

A question that cant be answered really. It is why a lot of people cant stand the current system. It leaves to many questions unanswered.

The other side that doesnt want the playoff system enjoys the game we seen tonight. A VERY meaningful #1 vs #2 game. A playoff system would take a bit of the importance out of the regular season.

A perfect system we will never have.

Boise St has people question the BCS system every year. Clearly I dont think they are as good as Bama or Oklahoma but with what they have done over the past 5 years its getting hard to doubt them. They just go out there every week and kick the shit out of everyone they play.

I disagree that a playoff would take luster from that game. #1 vs.#2 is just that. In season or in a playoff its a HUGE deal. I think it would add luster. Fighting for the top seed and home field during the playoffs vs. a lower seed and playing on the road in hostile territory? I think that would enhance the game.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

Regular season games wouldn't lose anything

Other than their current meaning.

[Matthean]

'Bama is 3rd in the new BCS standings, but will likely drop to #4 if Stanford beats Oregon. If Stanford and Ok State fall, it will be difficult to not see a rematch unless there is some final poll changing of votes to prevent the rematch.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Matthean

'Bama is 3rd in the new BCS standings, but will likely drop to #4 if Stanford beats Oregon. If Stanford and Ok State fall, it will be difficult to not see a rematch unless there is some final poll changing of votes to prevent the rematch.

That is ridiculous. Stanford deserves to be no 3, and Bama is surprisingly not getting penalized the way other 1 loss teams (Oklahoma, Oregon) were.

[chadritt]

Originally Posted by Matthean

'Bama is 3rd in the new BCS standings, but will likely drop to #4 if Stanford beats Oregon. If Stanford and Ok State fall, it will be difficult to not see a rematch unless there is some final poll changing of votes to prevent the rematch.

I not only dont want a rematch but also dont want an all SEC final so im REALLY hoping something happens to prevent this. I say this as an SEC fan too, both my parents went to UGA and I grew up in Atlanta.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

That is ridiculous. Stanford deserves to be no 3, and Bama is surprisingly not getting penalized the way other 1 loss teams (Oklahoma, Oregon) were.

OU lost to T.T. Oregon lost by 13. 'Bama has the better quality loss.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Other than their current meaning.

Which is what though? If you had a playoff system where you had eight conferences each with a bid to a playoff bracket, or four superconferences with one each for eight divisions, what games would lose meaning? Conference games still would have meaning, because conference record is the way to get to the playoffs. Non-conference wouldn't, but it's rare that they do now anyway (most are cupcake games). So what is devalued? A game like last night's is still huge because it is a must for the SEC West crown.

Would games not matter because you could lose a game and still get in? Clemson's lost, and a one loss Clemson isn't getting in the NC game. So, their three remaining games are meaningless. All of the Big 10 teams but for PSU have two losses...all of their remaining games are now meaningless. All Big 12 games other than those involving OSU/OU are meaningless. Georgia's season was rendered meaningless in Week 2, even if they still have a chance to win the SEC.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Other than their current meaning.

This is just a ridiculous statement. I guess 3/4th's of the NFL should just stop bothering with those pesky regular season games then, since they have no meaning.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Which is what though?

The best regular season in all of sports. Perhaps the only truly meaningful regular season left in all of American sports (I can't speak much to international competitions in that regard).

A game like last night's is still huge because it is a must for the SEC West crown.

Which means what, a 1/8 chance as opposed to a nearly sure thing? It becomes no different than a meaningless college basketball regular season game.

As for the also rans, you try telling Georgia fans that their season is meaningless after that embarassing loss, as they wait to see whether CMR can save his job with a possible Sugar Bowl bid.

Along with killing the much of the regular season, you also kill the bowls - and anyone who claims differently is nothing short of either a damned fool or in unfamiliar with the NIT - but those still have meaning, at least at times (we could do with a few less I'd admit).

You don't break what isn't broken, and the most broken thing about college football is the attention paid to the useless racket from people that seem to be too simple-minded to comprehend something other than a tournament.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

It's funny how the legend of this victory has been magnified out of proportion. Boise beat a 2-loss Oklahoma team that backdoored their way into the Big XII title game after getting whipped by Texas 28-7 earlier in the year. Before the season started, they had to move Paul Thompson from WR to QB after Rhett Bomar was kicked off the team. They were predicted to win 7 or 8 games before the season started. They gutted out a lot of close wins and got some help when Texas lost twice late in the season. OU was a 6 point favorite over Boise State and lost by one point in overtime to arguably the best Boise State team in history. That 2006 OU team wouldn't even be competitive with this year's OU team. This year's Boise State team might not even score against Alabama or LSU.

Always an excuse for the losing team. If Oklahoma has such superior athletes, should they not have still won that game against BSU going away?