Small game - Return of Werewolf Xtreme (Game over! Result in Post 401)

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Grover

The only tent I have is a pants tent.

tmi

[Grover]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

tmi

There's nothing in there! Just air!

[timmae]

Grover... you've got so far to go my friend.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by timmae

Grover... you've got so far to go my friend.

to filling my pants tent?

[timmae]

So star trek and tents is what we have today. Really? Rereading the thread... I'll post an updated list of reads soon.

[Shoveler]

Originally Posted by timmae

So star trek and tents is what we have today. Really? Rereading the thread... I'll post an updated list of reads soon.

You were the originator of both of those topics.

[timmae]

Originally Posted by Shoveler

You were the originator of both of those topics.

I didn't bring up redshirts buddy.... not did I mention anything about tents. We've had enough of both topics than you very much.

[timmae]

Good to bad list...

Jackal (good tone, I don't think wolf jackal votes shoveler instead of brit at post #148 when he could just run up a supposed VV)
Shoveler (tone reads the same as what I have seen of good shoveler, I don't see a connection to others I read more evil so that moves him up a notch)
cheekimonk (still neutral here, not much activity or content, need to see more, his vote post felt like good cheeki)
Grover (I read him good early but then he is acting a lot like wolf grover with his late D1 vote of CR, not much content)
Autumn (again, read good early but not as active since before D1 LC, weird end of D1 with CR vote hanging, then points out mysfit but votes grover)
mysfit (chatty early D1, then was less active, D2 posts have been defensive and a bit all over the place)

[mysfit]

Yeah I am the red shirt culprit

He just asked about it

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by mysfit

Didn't you read the rules?

You were the one who used the "2 of them..." comment I was quoting:

Originally Posted by mysfit

So, the wolves make their moves. Well, 2 of them anyway.....Shoveler and cheekimonk

EDIT: closed quote tag

[mysfit]

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

You were the one who used the "2 of them..." comment I was quoting:



EDIT: closed quote tag

But given your comprehensive and complete reading of the rules you should have known, right?

You already bashed me once over the rules. Not sure why you held back the second time.

[Grover]

tim, my vote change was left on the fact that even if CR was lying about being the priest, we shouldn't lynch him just yet. So I wetnt to the other leading option at the time, brit.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by mysfit

But given your comprehensive and complete reading of the rules you should have known, right?

You already bashed me once over the rules. Not sure why you held back the second time.

Yeah, I knew...which is why I quoted you again showing you hadn't read the rules. Or, best case, your logic is very flawed ("the wolves are making their moves. Well, 2 of them..."...out of the 2 in the game?). You could have slipped up trying to emphasize you are a "us" and not a "them." Or you're the sorcerer, but there's not quite enough info for that specific of a read, IMO.

[mysfit]

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

Yeah, I knew...which is why I quoted you again showing you hadn't read the rules. Or, best case, your logic is very flawed ("the wolves are making their moves. Well, 2 of them..."...out of the 2 in the game?). You could have slipped up trying to emphasize you are a "us" and not a "them." Or you're the sorcerer, but there's not quite enough info for that specific of a read, IMO.

I read the rules

And what I can say with 100% certainty is that if you think I am a wolf, your reads suck

Of course you may already know I am a villager and you're just making a slipshod case against the noob

[mysfit]

mysfit 2 - timmae (231), cheekimonk (260)
Shoveler 3 - The Jackal (224), Grover (258), mysfit (264)
Autumn 1 - Shoveler (259)
Grover 1 - Autumn (240)

[mysfit]

hmmmm


UNVOTE SHOVELER

VOTE AUTUMN

[mysfit]

Day 2 votes as of post 316


mysfit 2 - timmae (231), cheekimonk (260)
Shoveler 2 - The Jackal (224), Grover (258)
Autumn 2 - Shoveler (259), mysfit (316)
Grover 1 - Autumn (240)

[mysfit]

I know I am not a wolf (or sorcerer)

I'm pretty sure Grover is clean also

I believe at least 1 of Autumn/Shoveler is a wolf

Let's see how the wolfies try to play this....................

[JAG]

Originally Posted by mysfit

Day 2 votes as of post 316


mysfit 2 - timmae (231), cheekimonk (260)
Shoveler 2 - The Jackal (224), Grover (258)
Autumn 2 - Shoveler (259), mysfit (316)
Grover 1 - Autumn (240)

Concur this is official.

[timmae]

This is a tough set of rules, no doubt. JAG must be enjoying this slow torture. You are now the torture doctor buddy!

[timmae]

unvote mysfit

[timmae]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I buy it too, we saw how.. I can't even remember who it was anymore, is my memory that bad? .. got crucified for not revealing earlier in that other game

His name was eaglefan.

[timmae]

Originally Posted by Shoveler

So.. After last night it is likely we are at 4/3. I'm guessing brit was not the sorcerer or a wolf, based on his behavior before the lynch.

The sorcerer counts as a villager for parity, so I guess we could say we are at 5/2 as long as the sorcerer doesn't know the identity of the wolves. In that case the sorcerer will not know who to vote with. So, if this is correct we are not at a must lynch situation today. If the sorcerer has figured out who the wolves are, then we are at a must lynch or we will lose to evil voting power tomorrow if we mislynch today.

After rereading the thread I am not seeing anything that stands out as a tell about who is the sorcerer or wolves, so I think it may be safe to assume that they do not know each others identity.

Ok, so we are at 4:2:1 (good, wolf, sorc) right now. Assuming a N0 clear and a N1 wolf/not wolf we'd be at 2 goods (N0 clear and the seer) and a known 3rd (wolf/not wolf). But... assuming worst case the N0 was chief or brit and the N1 was not wolf (not necessarily good as it could be sorc) we could have only 1 full clear which is the seer and 1 not wolf vision.

I assume that the sorc will not announce until they hit the seer which gives us 1 more day for the seer to claim as they would have announced already, right? Once the seer claims then the sorc counterclaims as they are no longer useful and it creates FUD. Then it's a who do we believe situation.

Essentially the wolves have a 1 in 4 shot of hitting the seer tonight. Are we ok gambling on a 25% chance for another vision? Worst case we'd be at 2:2:1 tomorrow which would really suck if we have no information.

Would the wolves just claim and then hit a 3-2 vote for the lynch and a NK to win it? Sorc would just vote with the wolves, right? I think shoveler mentioned this before. I'd like to prevent this tragedy but it doesn't look promising right now. We must hit evil this lynch, right?

I think if we have the seer as a clear and 2 other living not wolf's then a claim may be worthwhile here. Obviously a wolf hit we would have heard by now, right?

[mysfit]

The Sorc counts as village so no, we can still survive if we lynch a villager but that's leaving no margin for error

4(1):2

The sorcr counts as villager but doesn't win unless the wolves win

The wolves have a 1 in 5 shot at hitting the seer.

[mysfit]

Sorcerer - Each night receives a vision of a target player as 'seer' or 'not seer.' The sorcerer receives a vision on Night 0 of one randomly chosen player that is 'not seer.' Thereafter, the sorcerer chooses which player to view. The sorcerer wins if the wolves win, but counts as a villager for victory purposes. The Sorcerer does not know the wolves and the wolves do not know the Sorcerer.

I have a question...in other games I have played, the player is aware when they are protected or scanned or whatever

Is that true here also?

[Shoveler]

Originally Posted by mysfit

I have a question...in other games I have played, the player is aware when they are protected or scanned or whatever

Is that true here also?

I would doubt it. that would sort of undermine the no reveal premise if we knew that the seer/sorc was still alive because they scanned someone.

[mysfit]

Originally Posted by Shoveler

I would doubt it. that would sort of undermine the no reveal premise if we knew that the seer/sorc was still alive because they scanned someone.

In other games here is it the norm?

[Shoveler]

Originally Posted by mysfit

In other games here is it the norm?

I dont think so. We had one game recently where someone was informed they were protected at night, but I'm not aware of that being standard.

[mysfit]

ok thanks

[Shoveler]

Originally Posted by timmae

Ok, so we are at 4:2:1 (good, wolf, sorc) right now. Assuming a N0 clear and a N1 wolf/not wolf we'd be at 2 goods (N0 clear and the seer) and a known 3rd (wolf/not wolf). But... assuming worst case the N0 was chief or brit and the N1 was not wolf (not necessarily good as it could be sorc) we could have only 1 full clear which is the seer and 1 not wolf vision.

I assume that the sorc will not announce until they hit the seer which gives us 1 more day for the seer to claim as they would have announced already, right? Once the seer claims then the sorc counterclaims as they are no longer useful and it creates FUD. Then it's a who do we believe situation.

Essentially the wolves have a 1 in 4 shot of hitting the seer tonight. Are we ok gambling on a 25% chance for another vision? Worst case we'd be at 2:2:1 tomorrow which would really suck if we have no information.

Would the wolves just claim and then hit a 3-2 vote for the lynch and a NK to win it? Sorc would just vote with the wolves, right? I think shoveler mentioned this before. I'd like to prevent this tragedy but it doesn't look promising right now. We must hit evil this lynch, right?

I think if we have the seer as a clear and 2 other living not wolf's then a claim may be worthwhile here. Obviously a wolf hit we would have heard by now, right?

I've been trying to think about how we could use the vote count tonight to determine alignments, but I'm not seeing a reliable way. There are 5 uninformed people versus two informed wolves. So they only real way to know we are voting poorly is if someone ends up with 6 votes, which is unlikely to happen.

But otherwise, yes we need to hit an evil today, and mysfit is correct the wolves have a 1 in 5 shot of hitting the seer, but they also have a 1 in 5 shot of hitting the sorcerer with the night kill.

[timmae]

But we have the lynch so there will be 6 players at 10:01pm est. 2 of which are wolves. Thus 4 available for the NK, right? Then the NK and down to 5 in the morning. If the sorc is around it's goodbye forever.

[timmae]

vote autumn

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by mysfit

In other games here is it the norm?

It depends on the game. It's usually either spelled out in the rules or clarified once someone asks, or left unknown intentionally.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by timmae

But we have the lynch so there will be 6 players at 10:01pm est. 2 of which are wolves. Thus 4 available for the NK, right? Then the NK and down to 5 in the morning. If the sorc is around it's goodbye forever.

Yeah but as I was trying to allude to yesterday, since the sorc and the wolves don't know each other, either side would have to make an assumption/risk that they were all still alive. If there's five people left and the wolves hope the sorc is alive and reveal, but they are actually dead - they're boned. The sorc won't know if there's 1 or 2 wolves left, and would have to decide if revealing would help or hurt, because it would potentially narrow the voting field.

[timmae]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Yeah but as I was trying to allude to yesterday, since the sorc and the wolves don't know each other, either side would have to make an assumption/risk that they were all still alive. If there's five people left and the wolves hope the sorc is alive and reveal, but they are actually dead - they're boned. The sorc won't know if there's 1 or 2 wolves left, and would have to decide if revealing would help or hurt, because it would potentially narrow the voting field.

Thanks, this helps. This ruleset is "fun" that's for sure.

[Autumn]

Looks like I need a little self defense. I feel better about Mysfit after today's posts. So to me the wolves are likely between Shoveler, Grover and Cheeki.

unvote
vote shoveler

[cheekimonk]

mysfit feels off, but he could just be active and swinging wildly...hard to tell since he's new. But I do think Autumn/Shoveler are not aligned, so

unvote mysfit
vote Autumn

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by timmae

vote autumn

any reasoning?

[Shoveler]

Current Vote Count
Shoveler 3 - The Jackal (224), Grover (258), autumn (336)
Autumn 4 - Shoveler (259), mysfit (316), timmae (332), autumn (337)

I'm not going to discount the fact that autumn might be bad, but the quick consolidation seems to suggest otherwise.

Nearly everyone here has either voted for me today, or if you name is Timmae, I started the day on your evil list and moved my way up. The only person that hasn't voted or commented negatively on me is cheeki.

In my view I am an obvious mislynch. I'm starting to suspect the same about autumn.

[mysfit]

Day 2 votes as of post 337 (unofficial)

Shoveler 3 - The Jackal (224), Grover (258), Autumn (336)
Autumn 4 - Shoveler (259), mysfit (316), timmae (332), cheekimonk (337)

[Shoveler]

Unvote Autumn
Vote Jackal

[mysfit]

timmae and cheeki both moved off me to Autumn

I had set up a 3 way tie to see how the votes would shift, wanting to see what Autumn would do specifically

But timmae moved off me first....either a really novice move or I don't know what

[mysfit]

Day 2 votes as of post 342 (unofficial)

Shoveler 3 - The Jackal (224), Grover (258), Autumn (336)
Autumn 3 - mysfit (316), timmae (332), cheekimonk (337)
Jackal 1 - Shoveler (342)

[timmae]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

any reasoning?

My thoughts are back on post 308. Basically I do not think that Autumns posts since early on D1 have been typical autumn. Granted I am basing this mainly as his role of seer last game but his tone/content is off. Not sure why. I'd love input of some vets around these parts (not many left in this game) as to how it compares to his standard play.

I also reread mysfit and I have a hunch that evil is lurking elsewhere. I was trying to place reads with my original assumption that she is evil but it wasn't adding up. I reread her as good and things clicked a little bit more. Not sure if that makes sense but there you go. I could be off the map on this but I'll reread later tonight and see where things end up.

[timmae]

Originally Posted by mysfit

timmae and cheeki both moved off me to Autumn

I had set up a 3 way tie to see how the votes would shift, wanting to see what Autumn would do specifically

But timmae moved off me first....either a really novice move or I don't know what

If you don't know already... I am new around here (and to this game). Your schemes will not work on or around me. Sorry about that.

[The Jackal]

Alright, I've been debating this, but I think with no chance of role reveals on death and what I know, there's no point in trying to pull a late post and hope I don't get NK'ed. I don't think we can afford to not lynch a wolf today in the scheme of things, and if I push any harder I'll definitely be the NK target - but pretty sure Shoveler already figured me out.

I'm the seer - my N0 scan was brit, which means he's not a wolf (but still could have been the sorceror, though I doubt it, based on the way he played). I was pretty clear in my intent not to vote brit, which I generally wouldn't be on a D1 with no knowledge.

I was initially choosing between Autumn/CR to scan, but then guessed they'd be likely NK candidates. Once CR revealed, there was no point scanning him anyways, since his allegiance would be revealed pretty soon after.

And so, on a hunch, I went with Shoveler. And he's a wolf.

[cheekimonk]

Autumn or Shoveler...I could go either way with the info so far (which is almost zilch this game).

[The Jackal]

You guys can debate if it was the right call to reveal, but I wanted to make sure we got this lynch right

[The Jackal]

And, I think we've gotten to see a fair bit of voting info from the way it shook out with Shoveler on the block.

[The Jackal]

This morning I had Grover in as my scan, but switched to Autumn. However I'm thinking it likely now that the other wolf is someone currently voting for Autumn.