POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[CrimsonFox]

So like in 2016, this is what I kept wanting from Hillary. This is what I wanted Hillary to do. And she never did it. She never gave great speeches and had actual ideas laid out. Only Sanders did. But Sanders was just pushed aside. There is a clean slate here and Harris being an unknown is great because there is none of that stigma of "we are forced to vote for her" crap. She's an actual fantastic candidate who is going out to get our votes.

[CrimsonFox]

Reddit thread about a photo of trump

this thread is hilarious. especially the stephen colbert quotes

[Ghost Econ]

He looks a little like Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

You know as much as Trump talks about how great he is, I've never heard him talk about his parents or his upbringing or accomplishments he did growing up.

Hid Dad was literally a Klan member so there's a reason for that.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

What are they supposed to do after the left said they'd never vote for them?

With all the talk about Harris potentially struggling in Michigan, I'll follow up on the Haley voter numbers above: "uncommited" got ~100K votes in the Michigan D primaries. Haley got ~300K. (Adding in other candidates, in a state where the 2020 margin of victory in the general was 150K, roughly 150K Ds and 350K Rs showed up at a primary to have their vote counted against the obviousnominee for their party) And I'll add this anecdotally, from my feeds, which definitely have a disproportionate number of Haley primary voters: I saw far more people in my feeds sharing clips from Geoff Duncan's speech than even that of Walz. If you didn't see it, Duncan made it clear that he was talking right past the convention crowd when he said something along the lines of "I don't have to convince y'all; I'm talking to my fellow Republicans watching right now who are fed up with Trump." Unquestionably some were listening. It remains to be seen what impact it has, but going after a large block of people who vote and are probably on the fence certainly makes sense to me.


That said, I'm curious about the breakdowns of the Uncommitteds on the D side and the Haley primary voters. Some Haley voters were gonna vote for the R no matter what, wanted someone other than Trump, but had already decided to vote for him in the general. Same with some of the D uncommitteds. Their primary was just a minor protest. Other Haley voters, (I'm in this group,) voted for her in the primary to lodge their protest against Trumpism, but had already decided that if Trump's the nominee, they were voting for Biden and will now transfer that to Harris. I doubt many of the D uncommitteds were/are in this category for Trump, so I'd think Harris has more to lose if she alienates this group. Just not sure how large it is, but I think the biggest group would be the Haley voters who are still reachable, but haven't decided.--the ones probably leaning third party right now, but haven't ruled out Harris or Trump. I've seen a number of pundits lately talking about folks like Duncan and Kinzinger "giving them permission" to vote Harris. I get that sounds weird to Dems, but as I believe I said earlier in this thread, though I'm committed to voting to keep Trump out, I will likely continue to have intermittent minor twinges of guilt about it up to and beyond Election Day. For those that would potentially waffle much more than that, it certainly would help to assure them that they're doing the right thing, and seeing a Republican stand up among Democrats and get cheers probably speaks to those folks a good bit. (Side note: which is why I find it unfathomably stupid and short-sighted when the far left and far right attack the undecideds rather than, you know, try to persuade them....)

[GrantDawg]

This is fantastic. He did hit Biden pretty hard, though.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

(Side note: which is why I find it unfathomably stupid and short-sighted when the far left and far right attack the undecideds rather than, you know, try to persuade them....)

Agree with this. As a former R, I follow a good deal of anti-Trumpers/former Republicans (Kinzinger, Cheney, Walsh, Filipkowski, Riggleman, Kristol and his folks...gave up on S.E. Cupp after she kept linking things from the NY Post). I don't agree with everything they say, and I don't think the Ds should cater to them necessarily, but I want to see what they're thinking (and sometimes, how their thinking is broadening). I certainly don't think it's wise to antagonize them.

(Not that any of them are undecided, but they represent and can speak to a good chunk of people who may still be.)

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Agree with this. As a former R, I follow a good deal of anti-Trumpers/former Republicans (Kinzinger, Cheney, Walsh, Filipkowski, Riggleman, Kristol and his folks...gave up on S.E. Cupp after she kept linking things from the NY Post). I don't agree with everything they say, and I don't think the Ds should cater to them necessarily, but I want to see what they're thinking (and sometimes, how their thinking is broadening). I certainly don't think it's wise to antagonize them.

(Not that any of them are undecided, but they represent and can speak to a good chunk of people who may still be.)

I've seen it said here and many times online. "No one is really undecided." But there are. There are people who a) don't pay attention to politics. Don't care about political parties. Many of them will vote only in Presidential election years because they feel they must or are peer pressured in to it. Lots of people in this group will basically vote on "vibes." And then there are b) People who are politically engaged, have or had party affiliation but for one reason or another have reached a breaking point with that party. Whether it is something like a never-Trump thing, or the Dems are too lenient on the border, there is some issues or individual that has separated them from their party.

People in that latter group can either break toward one of the major candidates (I must stop Trump, so I will hold my nose and vote Kamala), vote third party as a protest vote, or not vote at all. I agree that having like minded people giving them permission to vote for someone who they normally wouldn't vote for is a good way to keep them from going the third party or no vote route. And counter, proposing something on the extreme side politically does the opposite.

[JPhillips]

I wonder if we'll ever find out what Trump got to suddenly be pro-Maduro.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I wonder if we'll ever find out what Trump got to suddenly be pro-Maduro.

I was looking at the same thing this morning. I am sure that Maduro tightening bonds with Russia after the invasion of Ukraine has nothing to do with it.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I wonder if we'll ever find out what Trump got to suddenly be pro-Maduro.

He stole his election like Trump wanted to, I think that is a large reason. And his general love for dictators.

[Lathum]

I think the real barometer for success at the DNC is if the Grinder app crashed...

[albionmoonlight]

Re: Undecided voters

I think about my across-the-street neighbor. A very nice awesome person who does not care about politics at all. She goes to work. She tends her garden. She visits with her adult kids.

And back in the 2000s, she made a point of mentioning how much she loved Obama and Palin, and she really wished that they would run together.

For a politics-obsessed weirdo like me, that was a very strange comment. But I can see it. It's vibes. She catches a little of the Hope and Change message, and that seems nice. And she hears about this plain-spoken Alaskan Mama Bear, and that seems pretty nice, too.

Because every election comes down to that low-information, low-propensity voting 5%, vibes matter.

[albionmoonlight]

dola: And I bring her up b/c she also counters my view of the low information voter as uneducated. This woman worked 30 years at IBM. She's super duper educated and smart. She just has better things to do than obsessively track how many roll call votes it took to elect the Speaker of the House.

[Passacaglia]

I didn't watch any of last night. So was the big surprise Kinzinger? I guess I'm still not clear on that.

Also, I heard on NPR that Lisa Madigan spoke. That seems like an odd choice.

[albionmoonlight]

People have traced the "surprise guest" rumor back, and it looks like it was just some high-follower accounts speculating and all re-tweeting each other and it eventually took on enough life that everyone just assumed it was true even as there was never any official annoucement.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I didn't watch any of last night. So was the big surprise Kinzinger? I guess I'm still not clear on that.

Also, I heard on NPR that Lisa Madigan spoke. That seems like an odd choice.

At least they didn't bring out Rahm. The Madigan thing was funny considering they're attacking Trump for corruption.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

At least they didn't bring out Rahm. The Madigan thing was funny considering they're attacking Trump for corruption.

Right. I don't remember enough to know if she was involved in any corruption, but she certainly benefited from her father's corruption. Which, uh, sounds familiar...

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Re: Undecided voters

I think about my across-the-street neighbor. A very nice awesome person who does not care about politics at all. She goes to work. She tends her garden. She visits with her adult kids.

And back in the 2000s, she made a point of mentioning how much she loved Obama and Palin, and she really wished that they would run together.

For a politics-obsessed weirdo like me, that was a very strange comment. But I can see it. It's vibes. She catches a little of the Hope and Change message, and that seems nice. And she hears about this plain-spoken Alaskan Mama Bear, and that seems pretty nice, too.

Because every election comes down to that low-information, low-propensity voting 5%, vibes matter.

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

dola: And I bring her up b/c she also counters my view of the low information voter as uneducated. This woman worked 30 years at IBM. She's super duper educated and smart. She just has better things to do than obsessively track how many roll call votes it took to elect the Speaker of the House.

Heh. Part of me is horrified at this, and part of me loves it.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I didn't watch any of last night. So was the big surprise Kinzinger? I guess I'm still not clear on that.

Also, I heard on NPR that Lisa Madigan spoke. That seems like an odd choice.

Kinzinger was a known speaker ahead of time.

[JPhillips]

Honestly if I'm Iran I'm willing to pay whatever Trump's ransom might be to suddenly get the GOP on my side.

[albionmoonlight]

Thank you to @BrianKempGA for all of your help and support in Georgia, where a win is so important to the success of our Party and, most importantly, our Country.

I look forward to working with you, your team, and all of my friends in Georgia to help MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 23, 2024

Presented without comment.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Thank you to @BrianKempGA for all of your help and support in Georgia, where a win is so important to the success of our Party and, most importantly, our Country.

I look forward to working with you, your team, and all of my friends in Georgia to help MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 23, 2024

Presented without comment.

The plot, she thickens.

pic.twitter.com/HtrF9aYR6j

— Ben Lewis (@benelou) August 23, 2024

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Presented without comment.

Someone got some really bad Georgia polls.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

What are they supposed to do after the left said they'd never vote for them?

The ask is to stop committing genocide. Something that any non-sociopath or person without a cult-like adherence to a politician or party should support.

That's all they have to do and they win the election comfortably. You all will pretend you didn't support the genocide in 5 years anyway, so why not start now?

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The ask is to stop committing genocide. Something that any non-sociopath or person without a cult-like adherence to a politician or party should support.

That's all they have to do and they win the election comfortably. You all will pretend you didn't support the genocide in 5 years anyway, so why not start now?

Everyone you were pushing instead of Harris is much more pro-Israel.

[JPhillips]

How does Kamala stop the Gaza war?

She could call for an embargo or more serious sanctions, but she doesn't have the power to stop the war.

And because of that nothing else will be good enough. She could call for an immediate end to diplomatic relations and the far-eft would say that isn't stopping a genocide so not good enough. That's what they've done with Biden and ending Afghanistan and greatly restricting drone warfare.

So she moved to an area where there are persuadable voters.

And you're nuts if you think months of Kamala/Hamas ads won't hurt her, especially with Hamas refusing to make any concessions to get to a peace deal.

[Atocep]

For anyone that wasn't following Trump's meltdown last night, he averaged a tweet (in all caps) every 45 seconds during Kamala's speech. Then after the speech he called into Fox and got so worked up they cut him off, he then called into Newsmax and did the same, then after they cut him off there he went back to Fox and called in again.

[Lathum]

Stable genius

[JPhillips]

lol

According to Trump, the GOP is apparently no longer pro-life.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

lol

According to Trump, the GOP is apparently no longer pro-life.

If only there were some sort of a book evangelicals could have read that warned about the dangers of following false prophets in order to obtain worldly power.

Oh well. No way they could have seen this coming.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Atocep

For anyone that wasn't following Trump's meltdown last night, he averaged a tweet (in all caps) every 45 seconds during Kamala's speech. Then after the speech he called into Fox and got so worked up they cut him off, he then called into Newsmax and did the same, then after they cut him off there he went back to Fox and called in again.

All from the toilet, no doubt.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

All from the toilet, no doubt.

He 100% has a tv in front of his shitter.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Lathum

He 100% has a tv in front of his shitter.

His golden throne.

[Ghost Econ]

Let's not pretend 90% of FOFC isn't posted one-handed mid-log.

[GrantDawg]

This kid that Mike Lindell came after was the wrong dude.

This guy @KnowaWasTaken is too damn smart for a 12-year-old. pic.twitter.com/rUOQrKOX39

— Alex Cole (@acnewsitics) August 23, 2024

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

How does Kamala stop the Gaza war?

She could call for an embargo or more serious sanctions, but she doesn't have the power to stop the war.

And because of that nothing else will be good enough. She could call for an immediate end to diplomatic relations and the far-eft would say that isn't stopping a genocide so not good enough. That's what they've done with Biden and ending Afghanistan and greatly restricting drone warfare.

So she moved to an area where there are persuadable voters.

And you're nuts if you think months of Kamala/Hamas ads won't hurt her, especially with Hamas refusing to make any concessions to get to a peace deal.

You stop sending weapons to the country committing genocide and it ends. Israel cannot support itself. Reagan literally did this when he was President. And even if the far-left doesn't approve, YOU STILL ENDED A GENOCIDE. Good fucking lord.

If the only way you can win over voters is by supporting a genocide, your party sucks and has no moral standing. Not to mention the polls show that Democratic voters do not support this. So drop the nonsense about how this is an electoral strategy and not to appease one of the biggest lobbying arms in Washington.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

For anyone that wasn't following Trump's meltdown last night, he averaged a tweet (in all caps) every 45 seconds during Kamala's speech. Then after the speech he called into Fox and got so worked up they cut him off, he then called into Newsmax and did the same, then after they cut him off there he went back to Fox and called in again.

He was also hitting buttons on his phone the whole time. He's really panicking.

[GrantDawg]

Well, here is the confirmation.






"Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s campaign said in a Pennsylvania court filing Friday that he’s endorsing Donald Trump for president.
The campaign also requested that he be removed from the Pennsylvania ballot, though it wasn’t immediately clear that he was officially dropping out of the race. It came a day after he sought to be removed from Arizona’s ballot. He is running as an independent.
Kennedy is set to speak in Arizona shortly “about the present historical moment and his path forward,” according to his campaign. Hours later, Trump will hold a rally in neighboring Glendale. Trump’s campaign has teased that he’ll be joined by “a special guest,” though neither campaign responded to messages about whether Kennedy would be that guest."



Page unavailable | AP News

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Lathum

He 100% has a tv in front of his shitter.

a solid GOLD TV

[thesloppy]

Trump's Abandonment of Pro-Lifers Is Complete | National Review


You hate to see it.....but more than that, you love to see it.

[Ben E Lou]

LOL. Shanahan like 2 hours ago said they wouldn't endorse until Trump admitted that Operation Warp Speed was a failure.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Trump's Abandonment of Pro-Lifers Is Complete | National Review


You hate to see it.....but more than that, you love to see it.

The last sentence in that piece was pretty much my exact initial reaction, and it hasn't changed.

With this post, Trump will further alienate pro-lifers and divide his own party while doing absolutely zero to win over anybody pro-choice.

Yeah, this just seems.... really dumb.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Yeah, this just seems.... really dumb.

Indeed. I have to imagine it was entirely off the cuff too.

Can you imagine being a part of the Trump campaign and waking up every morning to a mountain of overnight horse manure that you have to massage into shape?

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Trump's Abandonment of Pro-Lifers Is Complete | National Review


You hate to see it.....but more than that, you love to see it.

Eh... I'm of a mind that (a) he's lying, and he doesn't much care if pro-lifers think he's not lying because they got what they wanted, or (b) he using terms that the left take to mean one thing but on the right, not necessarily. In other words, he's either expressly lying to try to pull a few cheap votes from gullible low-info voters who take him at his word, or "reproductive rights" has nothing to do with abortion access as pro-choice people would use the term. It's all a ploy to try to dampen Dems' stronghold on the issue in the minds of voters.

[cuervo72]

Of course he's lying. He's hoping there will be enough of, I dunno albion's neighbor lady, who hears that and thinks "oh look see Trump says he's FOR women he can't be lying!"

And perhaps an outside (well, maybe not all that outside) shot that media picks up and says "hrm, maybe Trump is reconsidering HRM."

Probably fools Van Jones at the least.

[Ben E Lou]

Good gracious. Watched a few clips from this RFK dropout/endorsement speech. I don't know if there's ever been a case where the top third-party candidate dropping out and endorsing Candidate A serves to help Candidate B, but it seems possible in this case. Wow. Doubling down on being weird people, I guess.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Good gracious. Watched a few clips from this RFK dropout/endorsement speech. I don't know if there's ever been a case where the top third-party candidate dropping out and endorsing Candidate A serves to help Candidate B, but it seems possible in this case. Wow. Doubling down on being weird people, I guess.

More weirdos for the weird party.

If the DNC doesn't run a bunch of commercials with people in bear costumes they aren't doing it right

[Lathum]

Dola- from what I heard he came across as super bitter at the democratic party for rejecting him because he was weird. There is a reason his whole family came out and said not to vote for him.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

You stop sending weapons to the country committing genocide and it ends. Israel cannot support itself. Reagan literally did this when he was President. And even if the far-left doesn't approve, YOU STILL ENDED A GENOCIDE. Good fucking lord.

If the only way you can win over voters is by supporting a genocide, your party sucks and has no moral standing. Not to mention the polls show that Democratic voters do not support this. So drop the nonsense about how this is an electoral strategy and not to appease one of the biggest lobbying arms in Washington.

Let's say it's that simple. When does Israel end the war? Tomorrow? October? 2025? It seems very unlikely that it would end immediately, so the left will just say not good enough and continue to complain.

Politically it's clear why Harris is reaching out to voters that show a willingness to cast votes for them.