WW LXXXIII Marvel Universe - Game Over! Rebel victory!

[NickFury]

Originally Posted by Cable

I wonder if he has jumped to Phoenix at this point.

This is not good.

I'm not sure this is the case. He waited an extra day to jump after he killed Jean Grey. I don't see him doing that if he needed to possess her. I think she is/was in his plans somehow, but I don't think he possessed her

[NickFury]

All I got this morning on my main account was the new account password, so I'm waiting on a PM to know how much energy I have

[GhostRider]

Mimic, there is no way I'm moving after watching that, run or not. He did nothing for us mission-wise and took out our leader (still not sure how to read that). The only way I move is if we decide as a group that we think he and Hulk were working together because Hulk is a proven good guy.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by Mimic

Okay, up until this point I was willing to give you a bye. I was thinking that one of the original prelates being a rebel was a red herring. I had some good vibes from you and I was unwilling to vote for you.

This being the case, I still think that you're a misguided villager...regardless of whether you're a rebel or not, Doom had a way to defeat Galactus. I don't understand why you would do this.

My availability today is quite spotty. For now, I don't really like the run on Kang and will place a vote on Aardvark. He's been questionable all game to me.

STANDARD MAGIC ATTACK AARDWOLF

It's pretty simple why I did it. I had a very good feeling that Doom wasn't on our loyalist side. He used the Herald to Sucker Punch me (or whatever it's called). That pretty much clued me in. I knew at the very least he wasn't a loyalist and I figured with the way he's led us to be completely inept in most areas he was a rebel.

So he's *only* 3rd party. Ok, so I was half-right. Shucks. Given the amount of people who have committed bad actions against loyalists I'd think I'd still have earned a modicum of trust here. Or at the very least as you say, a "bye"

[thephoenix]

Kang:
There is no spinning what you have done. You have killed our leader. You are going to die. You are so weak that perhaps we can kill another, but you have killed someone which results in the rebels being closer to their goals. You did this because you are a traitor. No amount of double talk will convince otherwise.

Standard Attack Kang

[thephoenix]

I also suggest any who have attacked Kang up until now to reattack him. The time travel no doubt lessened some of the attacks, if it was a valid action.

[NickFury]

Join Galactus Mission

My skills aren't great for it, but I'll join anyhow

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by GhostRider

Mimic, there is no way I'm moving after watching that, run or not. He did nothing for us mission-wise and took out our leader (still not sure how to read that). The only way I move is if we decide as a group that we think he and Hulk were working together because Hulk is a proven good guy.

Dude, did you miss where my not going on the mission wasn't my fault? Let me summarize.

- 1:33 CST (post 3101) I say I'll be sparse
- 3:07 CST( post 3230) Mr. F orders me to guard him
- 3:11 CST (post 3235) I ask Doom to tell me where he wants and I'm there (I was catching up)
- 3:12 CST (post 3237) I confirm the guard order, mention that Doom *just* asked me to go on a mission
- 3:13 CST (post 3238) Doom confirms that instead he wants me to guard
- 3:28 CST (post 3251) I confirm I'm cool with guarding
- 3:42 CST (post 3266) I switch my attack and leave the thread, not sure if I'm coming back on the day
- 3:50 CST (post 3269) Mr.F changes the guard order to someone else

And you're telling me that is MY FAULT!?!? Ridiculous. I don't have time to spend just non-stop reading this thread. Our so-called leadership assigned me to a task, I tried to get on the mission and they confirmed it, only to switch to make me look bad.

[NickFury]

I am leaving now, be back at 5 central.

[thephoenix]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

Dude, did you miss where my not going on the mission wasn't my fault? Let me summarize.

- 1:33 CST (post 3101) I say I'll be sparse
- 3:07 CST( post 3230) Mr. F orders me to guard him
- 3:11 CST (post 3235) I ask Doom to tell me where he wants and I'm there (I was catching up)
- 3:12 CST (post 3237) I confirm the guard order, mention that Doom *just* asked me to go on a mission
- 3:13 CST (post 3238) Doom confirms that instead he wants me to guard
- 3:28 CST (post 3251) I confirm I'm cool with guarding
- 3:42 CST (post 3266) I switch my attack and leave the thread, not sure if I'm coming back on the day
- 3:50 CST (post 3269) Mr.F changes the guard order to someone else

And you're telling me that is MY FAULT!?!? Ridiculous. I don't have time to spend just non-stop reading this thread. Our so-called leadership assigned me to a task, I tried to get on the mission and they confirmed it, only to switch to make me look bad.

It doesn't matter what you've done in the past. You've self revealed, by killing a person the traitors needed killed. You have brought them closer to victory. You are a rebel. You are a traitor. You are scum.

[Spider-Man]

Originally Posted by thephoenix

I also suggest any who have attacked Kang up until now to reattack him. The time travel no doubt lessened some of the attacks, if it was a valid action.

Don't know if it matters or not, but better safe than sorry. Good thought.

Unattack Kang.

Standard Attack Kang.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by thephoenix

Kang:
There is no spinning what you have done. You have killed our leader. You are going to die. You are so weak that perhaps we can kill another, but you have killed someone which results in the rebels being closer to their goals. You did this because you are a traitor. No amount of double talk will convince otherwise.

Standard Attack Kang

Originally Posted by thephoenix

I also suggest any who have attacked Kang up until now to reattack him. The time travel no doubt lessened some of the attacks, if it was a valid action.

Weak Phoenix. It's pretty clear that you're on Doom's side, so I expect nothing less from you.

And I didn't time travel completely. The attacks are likely still valid. My jump allows me to go back in time to recoup my energy level at that point. So I went to this morning to regain all that banishing Doom cost me.

I can't do another special, but my attack will be far far far from standard today, energy-wise my dear.

[Cable]

Originally Posted by Mimic

Okay, up until this point I was willing to give you a bye. I was thinking that one of the original prelates being a rebel was a red herring. I had some good vibes from you and I was unwilling to vote for you.

This being the case, I still think that you're a misguided villager...regardless of whether you're a rebel or not, Doom had a way to defeat Galactus. I don't understand why you would do this.

My availability today is quite spotty. For now, I don't really like the run on Kang and will place a vote on Aardvark. He's been questionable all game to me.

STANDARD MAGIC ATTACK AARDWOLF

You were getting a lot of heat early on and you seem to have been able to avoid it the last few days. This post makes me wonder about you some more.

While I agree that Aardwolf has some suspicion, Kang has clearly demonstrated that he is on our side.

Maybe you are a rebel trying a little misdirection.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by thephoenix

It doesn't matter what you've done in the past. You've self revealed, by killing a person the traitors needed killed. You have brought them closer to victory. You are a rebel. You are a traitor. You are scum.

I killed him because he was not a loyalist, that much is pretty clear.

Shall we delve into your history here? How you gee golly just didn't want to think about that darn Beast/Firebird issue so you went elsewhere rather than attack your likely ally (Beast)

Oh, but who did I attack that day? Oh yes, Beast, because even Timmay from South Park could see his traitorous behavior from a mile away.

[Cable]

Originally Posted by Cable

You were getting a lot of heat early on and you seem to have been able to avoid it the last few days. This post makes me wonder about you some more.

While I agree that Aardwolf has some suspicion, Kang has clearly demonstrated that he is on our side.

Maybe you are a rebel trying a little misdirection.

I mean to say that Kanng has clearly demonstrated that he is NOT on our side.

Typo.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by Cable

I mean to say that Kanng has clearly demonstrated that he is NOT on our side.

Typo.

How is that clear?

What is clear, is I killed off someone who for 100% sure wasn't a loyalist, as evidenced by Post #2

[Mr.Fantastic]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

I killed him because he was not a loyalist, that much is pretty clear.

Shall we delve into your history here? How you gee golly just didn't want to think about that darn Beast/Firebird issue so you went elsewhere rather than attack your likely ally (Beast)

Oh, but who did I attack that day? Oh yes, Beast, because even Timmay from South Park could see his traitorous behavior from a mile away.

So share with us your reasons for knowing that he was not a loyalist then since you were so certain.

[Cable]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

How is that clear?

What is clear, is I killed off someone who for 100% sure wasn't a loyalist, as evidenced by Post #2

Come on, homie. You didn't know that he wasn't a loyalist. You can't use that. Unless you have an ability that let's you look at folks, there is nothing in the game that makes us think Doom was other than a loyalist, at least not to me.

[SilverSurfer]

Originally Posted by GhostRider

Stupid players with Silver in their name.

Hey!

Dammit. Great game. Get 'em, heroes!

[thephoenix]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

I killed him because he was not a loyalist, that much is pretty clear.

Shall we delve into your history here? How you gee golly just didn't want to think about that darn Beast/Firebird issue so you went elsewhere rather than attack your likely ally (Beast)

Oh, but who did I attack that day? Oh yes, Beast, because even Timmay from South Park could see his traitorous behavior from a mile away.

Let's delve. I didn't want to kill a good guy, when the next day we'd have the sure thing. When it became clear that Nick Fury attacked me, it also became clear that Firebird was telling the truth. I said as much before results went up. Sadly, the reveal was made too late for me to change my attack.

You keep trying to dissemble. Doom being dead was a requirement for the traitors winning. Period. You advanced that requirement. Period. You did it willingly and intentionally, unlike the hulk. Period. End of story.

[KangtheConqueror]

Day 1
Post #284: Scarlet Witch attacks Magneto
Post #456: Magneto attacks NickFury
Post #487: Punisher attacks SpiderMan
Post #539: JeanGrey attacks IronFist
Post #550: Spider-Man attacks Punisher
Post #594: Mr.Fantastic attacks DrDoom
Post #597: Kang attacks IronFist
Post #606: GhostRider attacks IronFist
Post #611: Cable attacks IronFist
Post #631: Vision attacks IronFist
Post #636: NickFury attacks DrDoom
Post #637: Mimic attacks Jewel
Post #657: Aardwolf attacks EmmaFrost
Post #679: IronFist "PowerPunch" DrDoom

Day Two
Post #775: Silver Samurai attacks Colossus
Post #800: Aardwolf attacks SilverSamurai
Post #915: GhostRider attacks Colossus
Post #916: Kang attacks Gambit
Post #1035: Vision attacks Gambit
Post #1067: JeanGrey attacks Gambit
Post #1083: Magneto attacks Spider-Man
Post #1091: Cable attacks Spider-Man
Post #1095: Punisher attacks Spider-Man
Post #1111: Mimic attacks Aardwolf
Post #1131: NickFury attacks Colossus
Post #1142: Mr.Fantastic attacks Colossus
Post #1151: SilverSurfer attacks Scarlet Witch
Post #1159: ProfX attacks Spider-Man
Post #1171: Scarlet Witch attacks SilverSurfer

Day 3
Post #1327 - GhostRider attacks Nightcrawler
Post #1661 - Vision attacks Mimic, activates defense
Post #1679 - Punisher attacks Nightcrawler
Post #1724 - Aardwolf attack SilverSamurai
Post #1738 - Mr.Fantastic attacks Nightcrawler
Post #1745 - Cable attacks Nightcrawler
Post #1767 - Mimic attacks Nightcrawler
Post #1780 - Magneto attacks Nightcrawler
Post #1787 - Kang attacks Spider-Man
Post #1800 - NickFury attacks JeanGrey
Post #1801 - JeanGrey attacks Spider-Man
Post #1827 - Scarlet Witch attacks Beast
Post #1840 - SilverSamurai attacks Punisher

Day 4

Post #2048 - Magneto attacks Colossus
Post #2104 - Aardwolf attacks SilverSamurai
Post #2307 - Cable attacks Colossus
Post #2312 - Vision attacks Colossus
Post #2313 - Mimic attacks Colossus
Post #2321 - Kang attacks Scarlet Witch
Post #2334 - Punisher attacks Colossus
Post #2344 - JeanGrey attacks Colossus
Post #2345 - GhostRider attacks Colossus
Post #2346 - MrFantastic attacks Colossus
Post #2348 - NickFury attacks JeanGrey
Scarlet Witch - Attacks Colossus
Silver samurai - Attacks Aardwolf

Day 5
Silver Samurai standard attacks Spider-Man (Post #2487)
Kang standard attacks Beast (Post #2536)
Mimic standard attacks Quicksilver (Post #2607)
Cable standard attacks Beast (Post #2614)
Spider-Man standard attacks Quicksilver (Post #2680)
Magneto standard attacks Quicksilver (Post #2701)
Scarlet Witch standard attacks Quicksilver (Post #2718)
Aardwolf attacks Quicksilver (Post #2742)
Phoenix standard attacks Quicksilver (Post #2777)
Punisherattacks Firebird (Post #2814)
Ghost Rider attacks Firebird (Post #2817)
Vision attacks Quicksilver

Day 6
Post #2955: vision attacks NickFury
Post #3000: cable attacks NickFury
Post #3004: Phoenix attacks IronFist
Post #3259: GhostRider attacks Iron Fist
Post #3266: Kang attacks SilverSamurai
Post #3283: Aardwolf attacks Cable
Post #3300: Magneto attacks IronFist
Post #3308: Mimic attacks IronFist (magic)
Post #3312: Mr.Fantastic attacks IronFist
Post #3320: Scarlet Witch attacks IronFist
Post #3360: Spider-Manattacks IronFist
Silver Samurai attacks Aardwolf
Punisher attacks Iron Fist

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by Mr.Fantastic

So share with us your reasons for knowing that he was not a loyalist then since you were so certain.

1. The general mis-guidance and heavy-handedness to which he's run this outfit

2. The little deke move you two played on me yesterday to make me look bad

3. The whole "I've got Galactus under control no problemo" rhetoric to only see him unsurprisingly FAIL

4. The ordering the Iron Fist on me, out of the clear blue sky

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by Cable

Come on, homie. You didn't know that he wasn't a loyalist. You can't use that. Unless you have an ability that let's you look at folks, there is nothing in the game that makes us think Doom was other than a loyalist, at least not to me.

Did I "know" know. No. (Ha!)

But I was pretty damn certain he wasn't a loyalist. His actions throughout the game bare this out.

You can't honestly tell me that the haphazard self-centered nature in which he ran his reign was really a sign to you that he was working for the greater good, can you? Seriously?

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by thephoenix

Let's delve. I didn't want to kill a good guy, when the next day we'd have the sure thing. When it became clear that Nick Fury attacked me, it also became clear that Firebird was telling the truth. I said as much before results went up. Sadly, the reveal was made too late for me to change my attack.

You keep trying to dissemble. Doom being dead was a requirement for the traitors winning. Period. You advanced that requirement. Period. You did it willingly and intentionally, unlike the hulk. Period. End of story.

Let's look at that win condition though. It says Doom has to be dead *AND* they need a majority of prelates. So with Doom dead, and no new prelates to be named, if I were to do that as a rebel, one would assume that the game would be over if I was making an end-game move.

But it's not, because I'm no rebel and it was no end-game move. It was a move to eradicate someone that was clearly, in my eyes, not working to help the village.

[KangtheConqueror]

Using abbreviations, voting record

Player (Rebel votes - Non-rebel Votes - Unknown votes)

Aardwolf (0-2-4)
Cable (1-3-2)
GhostRider (0-6-0)
Kang (1-2-3)
Magneto (0-4-2)
Mimic (0-5-1)
Mr. F (0-5-0)
Nick Fury (0-2-2)
Phoenix/JG (0-5-1)
Punisher (0-4-2)
Scarlet Witch (1-4-1)
Silver Sam (0-1-4)
Spiderman (0-2-1)
Vision (0-4-2)

Voted a known Rebel

Cable
Kang
Scarlet Witch

Voted for known Non-rebel

GhostRider - 6
Mimic, Mr. F, Phoenix/JG - 5 times (gee, no foolin)
Vision, Punisher, Scarlet Witch, Magneto - 4 times
Cable - 3 times
Spiderman, Kang, Nick Fury, Aardwolf - 2 times
SilverSamurai - 1 time

[KangtheConqueror]

So gee, let's look at that last section. Don't you all find it *very* convenient that our "leadership" of Phoenix, Mimic and Mr. F have all just *happened* to vote for known non-rebels 5 out of 6 times? Or GhostRider, another who isn't moving his vote on me has the poorest vote record around?

Really? And I'm the bad guy here for killing off Doom? Seriously?

[KangtheConqueror]

Looking at that list, I'm trusting Cable (even though he's voting for me) and Scarlet Witch right now.

Feeling ok about Aardwolf, unknown about NF

[KangtheConqueror]

Color me unsurprised at the silence that revolves around my valid points.

[Magneto]

Your assessment of your own table is misleading, Kang. You penalize Mr. F for voting for Dr. Doom, for example. You further use everyone's votes for Iron Fist as a basis for your accusations.

Other than getting it right with Beast -- which I neither discount nor deny -- your own voting record looks rather similar to most others.

I am not convinced you are a rebel, Kang. I do think you acted rashly, however.

[Magneto]

Thank you, by the way, for assembling this information in one spot. It is valuable.

[thephoenix]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

Color me unsurprised at the silence that revolves around my valid points.

The story has ended. The truth of your traitorous nature revealed. Death must come to you.

[KangtheConqueror]

Yeah, stick to that story Phoenix. Let's just brush all your poor votes under the rug then, because that's a good werewolf strategy.

[KangtheConqueror]

TIME RAY ATTACK THEPHOENIX

[Scarlet Witch]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

Let's look at that win condition though. It says Doom has to be dead *AND* they need a majority of prelates. So with Doom dead, and no new prelates to be named, if I were to do that as a rebel, one would assume that the game would be over if I was making an end-game move.

But it's not, because I'm no rebel and it was no end-game move. It was a move to eradicate someone that was clearly, in my eyes, not working to help the village.

The thing is that 4 was a very good number of Prelates to have -- it's one of the few things we've managed to get right this game. The rebels need a majority plus 1, which in this case, means 3. Getting 3 out of 4 is pretty hard. But if one Prelate goes down and does not get replaced, the rebels need 2 out of 3, which seems easier to me. Furthermore, if there's one rebel Prelate right now, there's no way he could ever reach majority -- the rebels would continute to hope Doom chose a rebel to replace any fallen Prelates, so killing a Prelate might not have even done them any good (which is maybe why they haven't done it). To continue, no one ever said you were making an end-game move -- even though we're in Day 7, the fact that there are 15 or so of us means there is still a lot left to play. Granted, yes, that means I should not have boasted that I could defeat Galactus three days ago, but that is another matter. The point is that your move does not have to be and end-game move to be rebel-friendly -- the rebel win conditions are pretty clearly spelled out, and you've moved them forward. Well done, but this is our best move now.

[Scarlet Witch]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

So gee, let's look at that last section. Don't you all find it *very* convenient that our "leadership" of Phoenix, Mimic and Mr. F have all just *happened* to vote for known non-rebels 5 out of 6 times? Or GhostRider, another who isn't moving his vote on me has the poorest vote record around?

Really? And I'm the bad guy here for killing off Doom? Seriously?

If you really thought that we had

[Scarlet Witch]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

So gee, let's look at that last section. Don't you all find it *very* convenient that our "leadership" of Phoenix, Mimic and Mr. F have all just *happened* to vote for known non-rebels 5 out of 6 times? Or GhostRider, another who isn't moving his vote on me has the poorest vote record around?

Really? And I'm the bad guy here for killing off Doom? Seriously?

If you really thought that we had three

[Scarlet Witch]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

So gee, let's look at that last section. Don't you all find it *very* convenient that our "leadership" of Phoenix, Mimic and Mr. F have all just *happened* to vote for known non-rebels 5 out of 6 times? Or GhostRider, another who isn't moving his vote on me has the poorest vote record around?

Really? And I'm the bad guy here for killing off Doom? Seriously?

If you really thought that we had three rebel

[Scarlet Witch]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

So gee, let's look at that last section. Don't you all find it *very* convenient that our "leadership" of Phoenix, Mimic and Mr. F have all just *happened* to vote for known non-rebels 5 out of 6 times? Or GhostRider, another who isn't moving his vote on me has the poorest vote record around?

Really? And I'm the bad guy here for killing off Doom? Seriously?

If you really thought that we had three rebel Prelates, then

[Scarlet Witch]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

So gee, let's look at that last section. Don't you all find it *very* convenient that our "leadership" of Phoenix, Mimic and Mr. F have all just *happened* to vote for known non-rebels 5 out of 6 times? Or GhostRider, another who isn't moving his vote on me has the poorest vote record around?

Really? And I'm the bad guy here for killing off Doom? Seriously?

If you really thought that we had three rebel Prelates,

[KangtheConqueror]

*insert ScarletWitch stuttering joke here*

[Scarlet Witch]

Hrm.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Witch

The thing is that 4 was a very good number of Prelates to have -- it's one of the few things we've managed to get right this game. The rebels need a majority plus 1, which in this case, means 3. Getting 3 out of 4 is pretty hard. But if one Prelate goes down and does not get replaced, the rebels need 2 out of 3, which seems easier to me. Furthermore, if there's one rebel Prelate right now, there's no way he could ever reach majority -- the rebels would continute to hope Doom chose a rebel to replace any fallen Prelates, so killing a Prelate might not have even done them any good (which is maybe why they haven't done it). To continue, no one ever said you were making an end-game move -- even though we're in Day 7, the fact that there are 15 or so of us means there is still a lot left to play. Granted, yes, that means I should not have boasted that I could defeat Galactus three days ago, but that is another matter. The point is that your move does not have to be and end-game move to be rebel-friendly -- the rebel win conditions are pretty clearly spelled out, and you've moved them forward. Well done, but this is our best move now.

But without a new leader, no new prelates will be named. So the prelates are who they are right now.


If anything my action has cut off that path to victory for the rebels as it's unlikely that they'll be able to kill off those prelates with all the guarding we can do.

If the game isn't over now due to Doom's death and that win-set, it's unlikely to end via that win-set at all.

[thephoenix]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

TIME RAY ATTACK THEPHOENIX

You're really going for broke, being about to die and all.

[thephoenix]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

But without a new leader, no new prelates will be named. So the prelates are who they are right now.


If anything my action has cut off that path to victory for the rebels as it's unlikely that they'll be able to kill off those prelates with all the guarding we can do.

If the game isn't over now due to Doom's death and that win-set, it's unlikely to end via that win-set at all.

You're right that they might have trouble killing them at night. But look at you, go hard, at me a prelate during the day.

[Scarlet Witch]

I'll try that again. If you really thought we had three rebel Prelates, then...


then all's good, let's all stop attacking you!

Oh, wait. No, I meant to say that in that case, killing Doom leads to an immediate rebel victory. So OF COURSE you're a bad guy then! But, like you said, this is not an end-game move, since there obviously aren't a majority of prelates. But killing Doom was something the rebels needed to do, AND doing so helps the rebels gain a majority of Prelates in my mind.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by thephoenix

You're really going for broke, being about to die and all.

If they lynch me, so be it. You seem completely unopposed to reason and you've been in bed with Doom seemingly all game. So yeah, if anyone makes sense for me to attack, it's you.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by thephoenix

You're right that they might have trouble killing them at night. But look at you, go hard, at me a prelate during the day.

Well I'm throwing a bit of conventional wisdom out the door now, since that's what people seem to be doing to me.

I kill non-loyalist, game doesn't end, they kill me. That's uhm, backwards.

[KangtheConqueror]

Let's not forget that if you're surmising that the traitors are still aiming to win with the Doom + Prelate majority plan then well, some of the prelates (aka you) have to be traitors? Right?

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Witch

AND doing so helps the rebels gain a majority of Prelates in my mind.

How is that? The prelates, with the inter-guarding, are among the safest around.

Additionally, if you're surmising they plan to win that way, well then at least some of our current 4 prelates must then be rebels, no? Otherwise it would be pretty fool-hearty for me to be a rebel and out myself to kill Doom to satisfy a win-condition my team has no hope in achieving.

[KangtheConqueror]

I guess what I'm saying is you guys can't have your cake and eat it to.

You can't say I killed off Doom as a traitor to win with that method and then also not look in the direction of those very prelates you're presuming are on my side.