POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[CrimsonFox]

Israel just wants to kill everybody but so does palestine

[GrantDawg]

The obsession with girls reproductive organs...

RFK Jr, going on and on here about puberty for American girls, isn't gonna help Trump beat the weirdness charges pic.twitter.com/err1vpSRSj

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) August 23, 2024

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Let's say it's that simple. When does Israel end the war? Tomorrow? October? 2025? It seems very unlikely that it would end immediately, so the left will just say not good enough and continue to complain.

Politically it's clear why Harris is reaching out to voters that show a willingness to cast votes for them.

Do you think it was right for Biden to approve $20B arms sale to Israel last week?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Dola- from what I heard he came across as super bitter at the democratic party for rejecting him because he was weird. There is a reason his whole family came out and said not to vote for him.

Spouting Q-Anon level weird conspiracies about why the Dems and mainstream media are out to get him. Sure, it'll play well with the fringe of Trump's base, but that's about it. He legit sounded crazier than Trump's *worst* moments. Seriously, he gave the Harris campaign so much crazy ad fodder that Trump may have to disavow/treat him like Project 2025.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Spouting Q-Anon level weird conspiracies about why the Dems and mainstream media are out to get him. Sure, it'll play well with the fringe of Trump's base, but that's about it. He legit sounded crazier than Trump's *worst* moments. Seriously, he gave the Harris campaign so much crazy ad fodder that Trump may have to disavow/treat him like Project 2025.

Did your FIL ever leave the RFK Jr. camp? From what I recall (a few years ago) it sounded like they were on the same vax page. Was always curious what became of that.

[Thomkal]

Man if only I had known RFK was so concerned about puberty, I would have voted for him...


I really hope we only hear from the not-weird/sane members of the Kennedy family ever again.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Let's say it's that simple. When does Israel end the war? Tomorrow? October? 2025? It seems very unlikely that it would end immediately, so the left will just say not good enough and continue to complain.

It likely ends when we stop sending them weapons. Israel is incapable of surviving without our help. We have had multiple Presidents do this with success. And even if it didn't stop it, MY TAX DOLLARS WOULD NOT BE USED FOR GENOCIDE.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Politically it's clear why Harris is reaching out to voters that show a willingness to cast votes for them.

I think when you get to the point when you're deciding whether supporting a white ethnostate genociding people will help or hurt you in the polls, you're so far gone in partisan politics that there is no coming back.

And it is clear why it's being supported. Israel has enormous lobbying power in Washington and many liberals don't view Muslims as people.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Trump's Abandonment of Pro-Lifers Is Complete | National Review

You hate to see it.....but more than that, you love to see it.

I wonder how much this even matters. Part of Trump's lure with evangelicals is that they both know it's bullshit. They aren't reading the Bible or adhering to anything in it. It's just a feel good thing and cudgel they can use to hate others.

[dubb93]

It’s important to unpack what these people say. He just said that in 1900 children were not hitting puberty until 19. Which simply isn’t true. But he’s also ignoring that the average life expectancy was just 47. I’m sure his point is vaccines, right?

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Indeed. I have to imagine it was entirely off the cuff too.

Can you imagine being a part of the Trump campaign and waking up every morning to a mountain of overnight horse manure that you have to massage into shape?

Can you imagine how pissed Satan is right now? I mean he would have at least offered them a gold fiddle for their soul, instead they will probably end up in jail at some point.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It likely ends when we stop sending them weapons. Israel is incapable of surviving without our help. We have had multiple Presidents do this with success. And even if it didn't stop it, MY TAX DOLLARS WOULD NOT BE USED FOR GENOCIDE.



I think when you get to the point when you're deciding whether supporting a white ethnostate genociding people will help or hurt you in the polls, you're so far gone in partisan politics that there is no coming back.

And it is clear why it's being supported. Israel has enormous lobbying power in Washington and many liberals don't view Muslims as people.

You started this by asking why Dems are courting GOPers instead of courting the anti-Israel left. It's pretty easy to see why she's doing this.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

You started this by asking why Dems are courting GOPers instead of courting the anti-Israel left. It's pretty easy to see why she's doing this.

Yeah, Democrats like getting large sums of money.

I mean the easiest solution would be to just stop sending weapons that are used in a genocide and run roughshod in the election because you have the numbers. Beats trying to convince some hypothetical Republicans that never materialize to vote for you.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Yeah, Democrats like getting large sums of money.

I mean the easiest solution would be to just stop sending weapons that are used in a genocide and run roughshod in the election because you have the numbers. Beats trying to convince some hypothetical Republicans that never materialize to vote for you.

I want to start with I am not pro what Israel is doing but I don’t understand why you think the political position of being anti Israel is so popular that it would ensure an election win? What poll supports that stance? I don’t want to get drawn into any argument of right and wrong and/or how to end the war. I’m simply wanting to know what polls you are seeing so I can look into them. Everything I’m seeing says the majority of Americans support the current position.

[CrimsonFox]

Wait....Oprah spoke?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I want to start with I am not pro what Israel is doing but I don’t understand why you think the political position of being anti Israel is so popular that it would ensure an election win? What poll supports that stance? I don’t want to get drawn into any argument of right and wrong and/or how to end the war. I’m simply wanting to know what polls you are seeing so I can look into them. Everything I’m seeing says the majority of Americans support the current position.

There's a lot of polls that show support for Israel cratering. Especially amongst Democrats and Independents. It's hard to argue that this is a sound political strategy when looking at these numbers. And these are from months ago before much more terrible stuff has come out.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/...tion-gaza.aspx

400 Bad Request

The other issue is you're killing youth support. The people you would hope would be solid Democratic voters for the next 50 years. They'll remember who shrugged them off and is banning their social media app at the behest of a genocidal regime. They'll ignore the next time they're told Donald Trump is the real bigot. Or how we need to protect the free press from demagogues in the Republican Party.

So lets say you're someone who just doesn't care if we are funding genocide or not and only cares about your team winning politically (like some people here). It would still be a horrible decision to continue support politically. It's hard to imagine the amount of money you make from donors can make up for those lost votes now and in the future. Especially in states like Michigan with high Arab populations that are essential to winning the Electoral College.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I wonder how much this even matters. Part of Trump's lure with evangelicals is that they both know it's bullshit. They aren't reading the Bible or adhering to anything in it. It's just a feel good thing and cudgel they can use to hate others.

Elections have consequences. INCLUDING primaries. https://t.co/nN0VnGOY4j

— Dean Inserra (@deaninserra) August 23, 2024

There is no “reproductive right” to kill a child. pic.twitter.com/mqnNV6NHWN

— Lila Rose (@LilaGraceRose) August 23, 2024




Not sure who needs to hear this (yes, I do), but Trump is not a leader in the pro-life movement in any way whatsoever.

— Kimberly Ross (@SouthernKeeks) August 23, 2024




A choice between an abortion extremist and someone who will be “great” for “reproductive rights.”https://t.co/tnRR8p5jKm pic.twitter.com/NP4xgQKDOV

— Ryan T. Anderson (@RyanTAnd) August 23, 2024




Glad to see RFK endorsing Trump 👏 I’m sure that’s why Trump felt the need to post this today. He thinks he has to be pro choice to win RFK’s voters. Not only is this morally wrong; I also think it’s simply incorrect. Those I know supporting RFK were supporting him *despite* his… pic.twitter.com/kdiT68VdCr

— Allie Beth Stuckey (@conservmillen) August 23, 2024

I was not an am not #NeverTrump. But the #NeverTrumpers were right when they warned evangelicals about the long-term cost of a Trump presidency. pic.twitter.com/CPbexSVy7x

— Neil Shenvi (@NeilShenvi) August 23, 2024




Donald Trump is now using Democrat lingo, and promising his “Administration will be great for women and their reproductive rights.” Literally, there’s now no difference between D’s & R’s regarding abortion. Never thought I’d hear those words “reproductive rights” written… https://t.co/y0TOjD4V7I

— Dwight McKissic (@pastordmack) August 23, 2024




Elections have consequences. INCLUDING primaries. https://t.co/nN0VnGOY4j

— Dean Inserra (@deaninserra) August 23, 2024



I could go on...



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[RainMaker]

They'll all fall in line. They ignored the multiple marriages, sexual assaults, and him fucking a pornstar while his wife was home nursing a newborn. Doubt they'll find their "principles" now.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They'll all fall in line. They ignored the multiple marriages, sexual assaults, and him fucking a pornstar while his wife was home nursing a newborn. Doubt they'll find their "principles" now.

Rose and Stuckey aren't just single-issue voters; they're pretty much single-issue people, and they have *significant* sway with pro-life Southern suburban women. You know, the ones you could use in Georgia and North Carolina.

And Rev. McKissic ignored all that stuff??

[Atocep]

There are a lot of single issue evangelicals that have seen a Trump presidency as a transaction of sorts. As long as he supports their key issues, and abortion is the key issue, they look the other way on everything else. Reading the tea leaves, there may be some evangelical leaders that see this and the fact that he doesn't have a Pence-like person in this administration as a sign that he's willing to abandon the unspoken deal to pull in voters that they don't see as welcome in the party.

[RainMaker]

For 8 years they've done this and they always fall in line. We don't have to pretend these people have any principles after all this time. They'll have their little tantrum and be back to worshipping him by Monday.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

For 8 years they've done this and they always fall in line. We don't have to pretend these people have any principles after all this time. They'll have their little tantrum and be back to worshipping him by Monday.

It is abhorrent how you’re willing to make blanket statements about entire groups of people despite the fact that there’s demonstrable deviation from your preferred narrative even within the tiny sample size I posted. You are showing yourself to be as bigoted as any ardent racist I’ve encountered in my lifetime.

[CrimsonFox]

sorry, the site just netfarted and made my post go through multiple times.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

It is abhorrent how you’re willing to make blanket statements about entire groups of people despite the fact that there’s demonstrable deviation from your preferred narrative even within the tiny sample size I posted. You are showing yourself to be as bigoted as any ardent racist I’ve encountered in my lifetime.

What deviation? His support among evangelicals has only grown over the past 8 years. He crushed primary opponents in the most religious areas this year. I get that his recent comment upset some, those people are not going to torpedo their careers by coming out against Trump. They'll be back to obsessing over children's genitals by the weekend.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong and all that support will go away. We'll see in November who Christians end up voting for. And we can follow those accounts to see how much more they'll trash Trump over his shift.

[RainMaker]

It would be incredibly funny if this is all he wanted for an endorsement.

BREAKING: Trump promises RFK Jr that he will establish a commission to release remaining classified documents relating to assassination of President John F. Kennedy

— The Spectator Index (@spectatorindex) August 24, 2024

[NobodyHere]

You know election season has begun now more than half the ads I see are political.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

You know election season has begun now more than half the ads I see are political.

Not sure if true but I've been seeing way more Trump ads. Maybe Dems were holding off until after the convention.

Honeymoon phase will be wearing off soon. Time to attack back.

[GrantDawg]

I showed that Trump ad buy in Georgia earlier. He is spending huge money here. They know they are in real trouble, hence the bury the hatchet with Kemp today. They are circling the wagons.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[Swaggs]

In Western PA, I would say it is close to 50-50 between Trump and Harris ads.

Close to the same with the senate ads, but I’d say it is a little more slanted towards Casey over McCormick. It’s hard to believe the GOP did the same thing as they did with Fetterman vs Oz, by having another candidate that currently doesn’t live in PA running.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Not sure if true but I've been seeing way more Trump ads. Maybe Dems were holding off until after the convention.

Honeymoon phase will be wearing off soon. Time to attack back.

There was one guy doing all the ad buys for Biden before he stepped down. Apparently Harris has been having to build up the ad team from scratch because they were left in such a shit spot.

[stevew]

RFK has to need a pardon, right?

[Front Office Midget]

I know evangelicals who refused to vote for Trump and still hate him, because they see exactly what is plain to see for most other people. Being anti-choice doesn't necessarily think you are down for voting for a narcissistic conman.

It seems to me to be a much smaller portion than the amount of leftists, anarchists, socialists, and progressives I know who are likely to not vote for Kamala Harris out of some sense of fighting the system / stopping genocide.

So I think RainMaker is generally correct in their generalization that evangelicals will fall in line, SkyDog is correct that there are plenty of exceptions, but obviously we're dealing in large numbers when discussing votes.

My social media sample size is probably a much higher percentage of "far left" and "fundamentalist evangelical" than most others since those are my circles, but this is still just a hunch and not based on any real data. Kamala Harris has to work a lot harder to win over "undecideds", and she probably has a lot more winnable "undecideds" on the far left with regards to Gaza than "independents", "moderates", and "compassionate conservatives".

It seems like "moderates" are in the bag for Kamala Harris, and "independents" is too vague to mean anything really. "Compassionate conservatives" seem to have been part of what they were trying to appeal to, but they would be much more likely to just vote third party or sit out the Presidential than ever vote for Harris. Although I did convince a "compassionate conservative" parent to vote for Obama based on the idea that the Affordable Care Act would help more people than any other policy.

The convention was obviously to appeal more to some vague "center" that as RainMaker points out, doesn't really exist, without that many bread crumbs to the left, who is not guaranteed votes at all, despite what the DNC brass thinks they "should" do.

Having AOC speak on day 1 set the tone for the left to think that their concerns were being listened to. Being pro-Palestine is basically an assumed position among the young left. The Harris campaign has about 9 weeks to do something meaningful on this issue, beyond 1 performative line at a convention.

It's a difficult issue because obviously the world operates on a level of "realpolitik" that forces the U.S. to be an ally to Israel, but it's so "obvious" to the young left that Israel is a settler-colonial state committing ethnic genocide on an indigenous population using U.S. resources.

The DNC can buddy up well with the left when it can pretend it opposes the war machine too- so easy to say "The Iraq War WAS a mistake" and get elected. But anti-colonialism is basically Basic Agreed Truth #1 among the young left, with Palestine being exhibit A in modern times, and the clear example that the Democratic Party is still the operating arm of the U.S. military-industrial-complex, we are still [supporting] a settler-colonial apartheid state, and, oh yeah, our tax dollars are used to bomb brown people regardless of which party is in office. Oh, and if you don't vote for us, fascism is your fault.


That being said, I'm 100% voting for Harris & Walz and straight blue down the ticket.

[PilotMan]

Power is still power, and power still drives the world. You can hope, wish, and keep pushing for a better way, but until that proves to be the number one driver of global politics, you can't ignore power.



The US has committed to the creation of Israel since the end of WW2, and continues to hold them as a close strategic ally in the middle east, above all others. As protector, and as a geographically significant location. Toss in the whole religion thing, even though Jews, Christians differ, they are far closer than apart.



Defense through overwhelming force and aggression is what we see on small scales every day. We see it in movies, we see it in interpersonal affairs, we see it as a deterrent in global affairs, and every once in a while we see it play out in a lopsided war. Israel was justified, no matter how they have broken settlement rules, or created a Palestinian subclass. Kick a hornets nest, and you're going to get stung. But we don't need to be funding it. They are more than capable to do this on their own dime.

So yeah, Biden should now cut the tap of funds clean off. Russia doesn't seem likely to come in a fill that void in the game of 'sphere of influence', and neither does China. So the risk of losing pull with a partner should be lessened.

[albionmoonlight]

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[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

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[Atocep]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

x.com

"Okay, good"

[CrimsonFox]

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

The obsession with girls reproductive organs...

RFK Jr, going on and on here about puberty for American girls, isn't gonna help Trump beat the weirdness charges pic.twitter.com/err1vpSRSj

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) August 23, 2024

I beg you. Pause this clip at 8 seconds. You won't regret it.

[PilotMan]

Dude has been hitting trumps self tanner way too hard.

[Ksyrup]

It will be interesting to see if Trump starts using RFK as a substitute for Vance.

[Ghost Econ]

Move ...... Get out the way

A story in 3 parts. @KariLake #TrumpRally pic.twitter.com/HJLcZs1I0w

— Chais (@chais_g) August 24, 2024

[Edward64]

Wife and I just double checked if we are registered. Easy peasy. We'll do what we've been doing, early voting which starts Oct 15.

Attention Required! | Cloudflare


I'll restate for the record (and for the inevitable post-election discussions) ...

There is no doubt in my mind that if Kamala wins, there'll be claims of irregularities like last time. If I was a state's chief honcho of the elections, I would begin educating the public now with

1. These are claims from last election
2. This is what we researched and found out
3. These are the potential risks/confusion (e.g. not registered to vote, absentee ballot, overseas voting etc.)
4. Here is how we plan to address those risks (e.g. mitigations & contingencies)
5. Here's who will be observing the process & vote counting etc.
6. Here are the X things you need to do (e.g. check if you are registered, know your polling location etc.) and if you have encounter problems, here's who to reach out to
7. Get together with my counterparts in other states and come up with a nationwide messaging campaign
8. etc.

I've seen countless ED (and other Pharma) commercials on YT. Sure, this won't eliminate all the BS but transparency & continuous communication helps. I know all the above information is available online but the info needs to be pushed out, not waiting for people to find it. Just seems that more can be done to prepare the public

Just my 2 cents

[dubb93]

I am seeing more and more memes from the right that are now adding “go ahead and fact check it!” To the end of them. I don’t know if they are new in general or just new to me but every single one has been a verifiable lie so far that could be checked in 5 seconds on Google.

[Lathum]

My MIL told my wifes sister, who was very successful in banking before quitting to stay home with kids, that she wishes she didn't send her or my wife, who runs 2 companies for Warren Buffett, to college because she heard on the "news" that years ago the Chinese infiltrated all the colleges and indoctrinated them into socialism. When asked for a source or proof she was told "they" obviously scrubbed the internet.

MAGA has broken so many people

[JPhillips]

Vance said that Trump will veto any national ban on abortion.

It makes the whole, you can't vote Dem because of abortion argument a little stale.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

My MIL told my wifes sister, who was very successful in banking before quitting to stay home with kids, that she wishes she didn't send her or my wife, who runs 2 companies for Warren Buffett, to college because she heard on the "news" that years ago the Chinese infiltrated all the colleges and indoctrinated them into socialism. When asked for a source or proof she was told "they" obviously scrubbed the internet.

MAGA has broken so many people

The lack of critical thinking, and reinforced by trump and his band of merry conspiracy theorists, is one of the weak spots in the nation for sure.



Educational overhaul plans on the right are more about teaching 'the right thing' then challenging thought, and more about unquestioned loyalty and acceptance of what is taught, rather than moral discussions and philosophical discourse that lead to reasoned choices.

[Edward64]

A snafu for the next debate.

Just a moment...

With just 15 days left until the scheduled Sept. 10 presidential debate between Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump, negotiations between their two campaigns have hit an impasse over whether the candidates’ microphones will be muted when it is not their turn to speak, according to four people familiar with the issue.

Surprisingly, I assumed it was Trump pushing for the mics to be unmuted, but it's actually Kamala's team.

“We have told ABC and other networks seeking to host a possible October debate that we believe both candidates’ mics should be live throughout the full broadcast,” Brian Fallon, the Harris campaign’s senior adviser for communications, tells POLITICO. “Our understanding is that Trump’s handlers prefer the muted microphone because they don’t think their candidate can act presidential for 90 minutes on his own.

I think they are just trolling right now ...

We suspect Trump’s team has not even told their boss about this dispute because it would be too embarrassing to admit they don’t think he can handle himself against Vice President Harris without the benefit of a mute button.”

I prefer muted.

I don't know if Kamala can really handle Trump interrupting every 30 seconds. And the supposed rationale for "don't think their candidate can act presidential for 90 minute on his own" hasn't mattered before, so doubt it'll matter now. Regardless, better for the viewers if muted because as we've all found out ... debates matter

[BYU 14]

Really odd request to me. I don't want to sit through 90 minutes of people talking over each other and getting nothing of substance across. Mute the damn Mics, give x amount of time to present their case, then x amount of time for rebuttal, rinse and repeat.

The Biden / Trump debates from 2020 were an absolute Train wreck, I will last 5 minutes of that happens again.

[Jas_lov]

They want Trump to interrupt every 30 seconds. He was so annoying and belligerent in that 1st 2020 debate. Biden finally went will you shut up and moat people agreed. I don't know why Biden insisted on muting the mics this year.

[Lathum]

I think it is a brilliant move by the Harris campaign. If he insists on the mics being muted he is admitting he can't be controlled. If he agrees to unmute them he 100% will not be able to control himself and yes, it will be a shit show, but it will make him look even worse than in 2020 because he will be bullying a woman. She is also way better equipped to handle him than Biden would be. I think she completely uses it to her advantage.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Lathum

but it will make him look even worse than in 2020 because he will be bullying a woman

Eh, he stalked Clinton all around the stage in 2016.