WW LXXXIII Marvel Universe - Game Over! Rebel victory!

[KangtheConqueror]

*too

[Scarlet Witch]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

But without a new leader, no new prelates will be named. So the prelates are who they are right now.


If anything my action has cut off that path to victory for the rebels as it's unlikely that they'll be able to kill off those prelates with all the guarding we can do.

If the game isn't over now due to Doom's death and that win-set, it's unlikely to end via that win-set at all.

It may be the case that it's unlikely with all the guarding we can do, but you've still made it MORE likely than it was when Doom could replace Prelates. Plus, I assume the rebels have some more tricks up their sleeves. I don't think for a second that our guarding has made it THAT unlikely for them to kill a Prelate -- like I said before, before Doom was gone, killing a Prelate might not have even helped them, if Doom named a loyalist as Prelate to replace him. Now, as long as one rebel Prelate exists, the rebels can be SURE that when they kill a Prelate, they're closer to a majority.

[thephoenix]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

If they lynch me, so be it. You seem completely unopposed to reason and you've been in bed with Doom seemingly all game. So yeah, if anyone makes sense for me to attack, it's you.

DOOM WAS NOT A BAD GUY

So there's nothing wrong with me being cleared by someone who has

PROVEN NOT TO BE A BAD GUY

[KangtheConqueror]

So if they have...

0 current rebel prelates - Then that win condition is over
1 current rebel prelate - They'd need to kill each of the other 3 (seemingly to me, unlikely)
2 current rebel prelates - They need to kill just one, but also, we'd have a 50/50 shot if we looked at suspicious prelates (all but Magneto in my view)
3+ current rebel prelates - The game would be over

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by thephoenix

DOOM WAS NOT A BAD GUY

So there's nothing wrong with me being cleared by someone who has

PROVEN NOT TO BE A BAD GUY

He was neither loyalist nor rebel, correct.

But with that said, given we don't know what HE needed to win, it's entirely possible that his "clearance" of you just happened to coincide with his end-game needs.

[thephoenix]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

He was neither loyalist nor rebel, correct.

But with that said, given we don't know what HE needed to win, it's entirely possible that his "clearance" of you just happened to coincide with his end-game needs.

Perhaps. But I've personally seen the information that suggests Nick Fury to be controlled by something with hatred. Mr. Fantastic has personally seen evidence saying that The Punisher is good. The reason Doom, Mr. F, Mimic and I are linked? We've all be cleared. You are trying to explode the COT. The COT is how we win the game. Stop trying to cast doubts on the thing that let's us win.

[Scarlet Witch]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

Let's not forget that if you're surmising that the traitors are still aiming to win with the Doom + Prelate majority plan then well, some of the prelates (aka you) have to be traitors? Right?

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

I guess what I'm saying is you guys can't have your cake and eat it to.

You can't say I killed off Doom as a traitor to win with that method and then also not look in the direction of those very prelates you're presuming are on my side.

Yes, at least one Prelate. The problem with looking in their direction is that it's a VERY dangerous game. If we guess wrong, we're screwed. And we're likely to be wrong, since, as we've determined, there are more loyalists than rebels among the Prelates. The rebels are probably hoping we go after the Prelates tomorrow, to help them out. Luckily for us, we will not be baited into that by you.

[Scarlet Witch]

I've been waiting until I finished replying to other posts to say this, but I'll do it now: my hunch is that Doom's win conditions were merely to take over for Apocalypse, and win the game in his place. That would make him "orange" because he has his own win condition, but still on our side.

[thephoenix]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Witch

I've been waiting until I finished replying to other posts to say this, but I'll do it now: my hunch is that Doom's win conditions were merely to take over for Apocalypse, and win the game in his place. That would make him "orange" because he has his own win condition, but still on our side.

I am glad you stated it, since this is what I feel as well, but was hoping someone else would make the point so I didn't have to.

[Scarlet Witch]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

1. The general mis-guidance and heavy-handedness to which he's run this outfit

2. The little deke move you two played on me yesterday to make me look bad

3. The whole "I've got Galactus under control no problemo" rhetoric to only see him unsurprisingly FAIL

4. The ordering the Iron Fist on me, out of the clear blue sky

I'm finally getting back to this post. Re: #3, didn't Doom say that he would take care of Galactus today? So he wasn't given the chance to fail...or to succeed, which might have been your intent.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Witch

Yes, at least one Prelate. The problem with looking in their direction is that it's a VERY dangerous game. If we guess wrong, we're screwed. And we're likely to be wrong, since, as we've determined, there are more loyalists than rebels among the Prelates. The rebels are probably hoping we go after the Prelates tomorrow, to help them out. Luckily for us, we will not be baited into that by you.

But in my mind, if you look at the 4 prelates actions, it's not a dangerous game at all. That gives us the path

Mimic - Pretty trusted in my mind with the 15 points of action proven to be true. It would take a big chain to paint him as bad

Magneto - Also performed well in missions, he'd be the 2nd least likely to be a bad guy

Mr F - In my mind, if there are two, he's surely the 2nd one with his little manuever with the guard/mission on me yesterday to paint me as bad. He hasn't actually *done* anything either and his vote record is poor.

Phoenix - I have little doubt she's a rebel at this point. Look at the votes. Look at her cling to my ouster. You'll lynch me, and that's fine, but in doing so she's cashed in all her collateral and should be the next ouster upon the reveal of my being a loyalist. And that's fine. If my work to be done was to 86 doom, vote out the rebel Beast and essentially out thephoenix, I'll call that a fine games work in my book.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Witch

I'm finally getting back to this post. Re: #3, didn't Doom say that he would take care of Galactus today? So he wasn't given the chance to fail...or to succeed, which might have been your intent.

He said that, but who knows if it was bullshit or the truth. Given him coming for me, the one person I *know* to be a loyalist, I wasn't of the mind to give him the chance to delay us more than he already had with his shenanigans.

[Scarlet Witch]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

If my work to be done was to 86 doom, vote out the rebel Beast and essentially out thephoenix, I'll call that a fine games work in my book.

Sounds like a plan.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Witch

Sounds like a plan.

*Or* you could listen to reason, but my fate was pretty much sealed with that early run.

[Scarlet Witch]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

He said that, but who knows if it was bullshit or the truth. Given him coming for me, the one person I *know* to be a loyalist, I wasn't of the mind to give him the chance to delay us more than he already had with his shenanigans.

Right -- no chance of any of us knowing now if he was telling the truth or not. So why did you say that his rhetoric seemed to FAIL?

[Scarlet Witch]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

*Or* you could listen to reason, but my fate was pretty much sealed with that early run.

I believe that's why you're taking the opportunity, while people still think there's a chance that you're good, to steer us toward killing Prelates. I thought you were saying earlier that what you had done was good enough, and constituted a good game's work for you -- if that's the case, and you're a loyalist, then we pretty much need you to die right now to find out where your statements are coming from.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Witch

Right -- no chance of any of us knowing now if he was telling the truth or not. So why did you say that his rhetoric seemed to FAIL?

Well let's not forget all the times leading up to yesterday where he said things to the effect of "Doom will handle Galactus" and then wouldn't ya know...Doom couldn't handle Galactus.

Letting him replay that tired story didn't seem, to me at least, like it was going to make much difference. He'd already ball-hogged that one and failed, why let him do it again?

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Witch

I believe that's why you're taking the opportunity, while people still think there's a chance that you're good, to steer us toward killing Prelates. I thought you were saying earlier that what you had done was good enough, and constituted a good game's work for you -- if that's the case, and you're a loyalist, then we pretty much need you to die right now to find out where your statements are coming from.

Well yeah, for all my talk it hasn't done much good. I get your point. If I have to fall on the sword, so be it. My point was just to the end that one could actually look at the facts and see that the chances of my being a rebel are significantly smaller than others around here when you look at things like oh, I dunno, VOTE RECORD. That pesky thing that kinda comes in handy in WW.

[Magneto]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Witch

I've been waiting until I finished replying to other posts to say this, but I'll do it now: my hunch is that Doom's win conditions were merely to take over for Apocalypse, and win the game in his place. That would make him "orange" because he has his own win condition, but still on our side.

This is my sense as well.

[Scarlet Witch]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

Well let's not forget all the times leading up to yesterday where he said things to the effect of "Doom will handle Galactus" and then wouldn't ya know...Doom couldn't handle Galactus.

Letting him replay that tired story didn't seem, to me at least, like it was going to make much difference. He'd already ball-hogged that one and failed, why let him do it again?

Can you show me the times "leading up to yesterday" when he said it? From what I recall, he only said it yesterday.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Witch

Can you show me the times "leading up to yesterday" when he said it? From what I recall, he only said it yesterday.

I'm far too lazy for that I'm afraid, but there were multiple instances, no doubt.

[Magneto]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

My point was just to the end that one could actually look at the facts and see that the chances of my being a rebel are significantly smaller than others around here when you look at things like oh, I dunno, VOTE RECORD. That pesky thing that kinda comes in handy in WW.

I agree with this to a certain extent. You needn't have voted for Dr. McCoy. Quicksilver made himself an extremely attractive alternative that day.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by DrDoom

Doom is greatly disappointed. Jean Grey was indeed a loyal subject, and I can only hope that this Phoenix supports Doom as fiercely.

Without a mission to stop these rebels Doom is unsure how to proceed. He will put his energies into stopping Galactus for good, and meanwhile hope to out a traitor.

Beast, barring explanation of this you will face the fury of us all.

Here's one on Monday.

[Scarlet Witch]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

Well yeah, for all my talk it hasn't done much good. I get your point. If I have to fall on the sword, so be it. My point was just to the end that one could actually look at the facts and see that the chances of my being a rebel are significantly smaller than others around here when you look at things like oh, I dunno, VOTE RECORD. That pesky thing that kinda comes in handy in WW.

But there's the underlying reasoning behind looking at the vote record. We tend to vote for someone with a good vote record less often because they're helping the villagers gain their WIN CONDITIONS. We ten to vote for someone with a bad vote record more often because they're helping the wolves gain their WIN CONDITIONS. Anyway, I'm about to head out -- hopefully you can show me where Doom talked about Galactus before yesterday when I get back.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by DrDoom

We have not yet caught a single traitor. Nor have we prevented them from killing on a single night. While finishing off Galactus would be rewarding, Doom fears we do not have the time to do so. The rebels profit from killing Galactus also, and so we can perhaps hope whoever strives against him in secret continues.

Doom also has a plan to finish off Galactus, which I can enact on the day after next. Thus Day 5 we will focus on defeating the rebels, as we did Day 2 to much success. The next day we will see where Galactus stands, and how well he can face the might of Doom.

Sunday.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by DrDoom

You speak wisely, First Prelate. Indeed Doom is thinking that we must concentrate on one mission at a time. My studies of Galactus too suggest he is weakening, and while it would be ideal to finish him off, I fear the traitors grow too strong to give them that respite.

I will propose that we concentrate nearly exclusively on missions attacking the rebels for the time being. When we have dealt them a setback we may return to Galactus, and deal him a death blow with the device I am preparing.

Your words on guard duty are wise. As some of my loyal subjects do not join missions each day, those who "forget" will be used to guard my loyal subjects. Doom can be moved by words of wisdom.

What I truly wonder is who has been harming Galactus, for it would not have seemed to be us. Who fights him in private?

And I must agree with Jean Grey, I believe that rebel sabotage of a team would be apparent to us. Instead failures must come from lack of effort by the rebels, or special abiilties unknown to us. I would not be surprised if the rebels pool together to expend their own energy to counter us. We must drain them dry.

Saturday (same game-day as Sunday of course)

[Scarlet Witch]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

Here's one on Monday.

What was the post number of that?

[KangtheConqueror]

I'm sure there are more, but that should be enough evidence to prove that it wasn't just a yesterday thing with Doom and Galactus.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Witch

What was the post number of that?

No idea. Do Advanced Search on this thread with posts by DrDoom and keyword Galactus though and you'll see these three come up easily. I just stopped after I found the three.

[Scarlet Witch]

Post numbers would help me a lot more here, instead of quoting the posts. Okay, now I really have to go.

[Mr.Fantastic]

I was waiting to see where today would lead before coming out full bore. Perhaps I got a bit greedy, but I had hoped by trying to present a case against Kang that was less than stellar, it would help us figure out who might be for or against us by seeing if anyone tried to protect him. Unfortunately after several votes, he got spooked or otherwise, I am unsure. Regardless, any attempts to gain even further information does not appear to be happening.

So with that said, I present Exhibit A of the case against Kang:

Doom had "hounds" that could be used each night to scan if someone was loyal or a rebel. He was able to pass them to someone else to use through no action and no energy cost to him. The person using the hounds had to have a free action point to be able to use them. I had previously used them earlier in the game to clear Mimic as being loyal to Doom. I also had their service last night in which I chose to use them on Kang. I found this morning that he was not loyal to Doom and I informed the others on my team (the Phoenix, Mimic and Doom) this morning prior to my initial posting in this thread. All four of us knew that Kang was a traitor and our end goal today was to bring his death. Mimic decided to play along and see if we could find if anyone would be willing to try to protect him in order to give us leads elsewhere after today. Unfortunately with Kang's blow up, that does not seem to be a likely possibility now. Kang is a rebel, you have my word on it. If I am lying, then lynch me tommorrow.

In case Kang decides to say I am making up this power, I'll now provide you exhibit B which is the timeline of occurances this game where the ability was commented about and hinted towards from time to time:

Originally Posted by DrDoom

Lord Doom has other matters to attend to. Here are my decrees:

My new council of Prelates

1. Mr. Fantastic
2. Emma Frost
3. Vision
4. Magneto

Do not fail me, or suffer the consequences.

Dr. Doom orders Jean Grey to guard Dr. Doom

Professor X, Cable, Aardwolf and Colossus will be ordered by the other Prelates to guard each other.

Hulk, you are as thick as you are large. You have already attacked today. I expect all other minions of mine to attack Galactus unless you can declare a better use of your time.

Silver Surfer, Doom wishes you to attack Galactus. Use minimal energy if you must.

Jean Grey, I will consider your offer. But Doom has much to consider in private.

Mr. Fantastic, I have other business for you. You may remain on earth today.

ALL HAIL DOOM

Initially when Doom made this post, I had no idea what he had meant and had assumed he was referring to my opening the portal that night as I had said several times during the day that I had wanted to. I continued on business as usual, and that same day is when the following exchange (along with several others occured):

Originally Posted by Mr.Fantastic

Just because Mimic has utterly frustrated me and made me wish I hadn't tried to get people to not vote for him.. this is how utterly silly he is being. Here he lists how many points he needs and how many he has.

The following quotes show where I repeatedly said we should give Mimic tommorrow, let him sit around do nothing, collect points, whatever.. and where I repeatedly said he should have the points on the friday night action phase...

I'll just let everyone else draw their own conclusions to why he is choosing to attack me instead for trying to be logical about this. My instinct now says he knows he won't be able to produce I guess. Either way I'm not voting for him today and likely won't tommorrow.. but I'm done supporting his cause and will be looking for other solutions to take care of Galacticus.

To be honest, I didn't think Mimic was a rebel necessarily, his play I felt was way off the wall and too risky for that to be the case. I actually had thought that he might have been the herald and was using his galactus excuse to gain two goals: 1) Provide worth so no one would lynch him .. 2) Distract people away from attacking Galactus if they felt someone else could reach that goal.

Because of that, I didn't necessarily feel Mimic was the best vote at that time, but my patience had run out with him.

Until that evening when I was suprised to have received out of the blue the ability to use the hounds. I thought about it for a while to figure out who I should look at.. and I decided that there was the huge hurdle in front of me named Mimic that I just didn't think I would be able to get past without knowing if he was good or not. He had been one of the former prelates and was drawing attention for the possibility of a former prelate being bad.. but more importantly to me his arguements were not sound and I felt he was using word games to try to confuse the issue at hand.

Until, I used the hounds that night...

Originally Posted by Mr.Fantastic

I feel that Mimic had created a large enough storm around himself that many of the goals of those loyal to Doom would end up being put aside until enough people were happy one way or another with his guilt or innocense to drop the matter entirely. I felt that I would have to include myself in the category of one who would have a huge hurdle of trying to discern what Mimic's true intentions were that prevented me from seeing beyond to other equally pressing matters.

After an evening of reflective thought, I feel as the first prelate that Mimic should be taken off of the table as a target for attacks today, that he should be given the opportunity to prove his worth. Last night I had intended Mimic possibly to be the target of my mighty wrath today, but that has been tempered with better reason now. I think in the end we may find that Mimic was indeed loyal to Doom after all and just did a bad job of putting his foot in his mouth and appearing to be all over the place which started this entire distraction regarding him.

I left this mostly as a hint to Doom that was who I had scanned. I realized that what ever word games Mimic was playing was just a confusion or misunderstanding. When Mimic had doubts about being ordered on the mission and not being able to prove himself any longer, I replied to him with this change of heart on my part:

Originally Posted by Mr.Fantastic

I don't think it would be logical for people to call you out for going on a mission that Doom instructed for you to do. Since the mission results seem to show those that put the most effort in, I would imagine that you would be capable of quite alot of effort right now which should be apparent at the end of the mission.

I don't feel that Doom's desire here is misplaced, and I also think it speaks volumes against those who were floating the idea that Doom had a seperate win condition of removing Galactus only. It seems apparent based on his morning's decree that he still cares about stopping Galactus, but by sending you here it is apparent that he cares more about stopping the rebels. I think you have the ability to try to help that happen.

When Doom was commenting that day regarding wanting Mimic to prove himself on the mission, I had thought perhaps he hadn't gotten my hint to him.. so tried to make it more obvious.. Notice the bold:

Originally Posted by Mr.Fantastic

Doom, this exact concern was hounding me last night. I think I was finally able to overcome that concern to some extent however. You are right though that a test here probably would illustrate that to all.

To which he replied which helped me know he did get my hint and had some other master scheme at hand. He also posted here that the portal was obviously not opened the previous night. I actually was suprised that no one ever made any kind of deal about that since I had been going on all day about wanting to use it, yet I never did. Doom very clearly knows why I did not as he was the one who sent me a different assignment.

Originally Posted by DrDoom

Indeed two birds with one stone, or three, Mr. Fantastic. Though we have often been enemies I have placed you closest to Doom's right hand. It is a place of power, but also close enough for me to smite. I trust that by tomorrow we will have use of your portal and Doom's dominion will stand for eternity.

A few days later, other various events occured and Doom had scanned Nick Fury the previous night. Here is the first public mention (that I am aware of or noticed in the thread) of Doom's hounds that could scan people:

Originally Posted by thephoenix

Let's get the timeline down a little on the Mimic/Nick Fury events.

Lord Doom had a way of scanning players. Nick Fury was scanned. This information was shared amongst our team (Dr. Doom, Phoenix, Mimc). The information was that Nick was not a traitor, but had something controlling him. Mimic then used his power to attempt to find out who that was, hoping to gain the name of the villain. Instead we learned it was the Shadow King.

I replied obviously because I had been working to not out that information. I had feared if it was made public, it would be an even larger target on Doom's back for the rebels then even before. Not only was he their win condition, but he also controlled our Seer!!

Originally Posted by Mr.Fantastic

I kind of wish you hadn't go into that much detail actually. For the record, the same ability was used on Mimic two nights ago and Mimic was shown to be loyal. So this is why I reversed course on Mimic at that time. People who have had doubts about Mimic need not to have them.

So with this information, there is no shred of doubt in my mind to where Kang's allegiance lies. It doesn't matter what win conditions anyone else in this game had, Kang turned up to the hounds as a rebel. There is absolutely no reason to not make sure we kill him today.

I rest my case.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Witch

But there's the underlying reasoning behind looking at the vote record. We tend to vote for someone with a good vote record less often because they're helping the villagers gain their WIN CONDITIONS. We ten to vote for someone with a bad vote record more often because they're helping the wolves gain their WIN CONDITIONS. Anyway, I'm about to head out -- hopefully you can show me where Doom talked about Galactus before yesterday when I get back.

Agreed.

And how more can I be helpful in villager win conditions than being one of 3 of 4 people left who helped vote off a rebel?

How more can Phoenix, Mr. F and the cohorts be helpful to wolf win conditions than by voting for a known-non-rebel 5 times out of 6 (with the other as unknown to this point)

[Mr.Fantastic]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Witch

Post numbers would help me a lot more here, instead of quoting the posts. Okay, now I really have to go.

You can click on the little arrow next to a person's name in the quote box and it will take you directly to the post that was quoted.

[Spider-Man]

Nice, Mr. F.

Looks like we'll get a rebel today.

[Spider-Man]

And Kang is suddenly very quiet.

[KangtheConqueror]

Ha, that's no fun Mr. F! I was just making some headway here and you had to ruin it with your annoying little things like facts

[KangtheConqueror]

REMOVE TIME RAY ATTACK

STANDARD ATTACK THEPHOENIX

[KangtheConqueror]

Luckily I still have one more ace up my sleeve. I'll save that for a bit later though. Nothing quite like a little anticipation.

[Mimic]

I can confirm everything Mr. Fantastic said was true. In that case, the ruse is off:

REVOKE ATTACK ON AARDWOLF
STANDARD MAGIC ATTACK ON KANG

[Mimic]

What is it with the wolves this game? None of them seem to take a few votes well at all...

[thephoenix]

Anyone have a sense of how much energy Kang might have?

[Magneto]

I blush to admit that Kang was fooling me. It would appear that I may be something of a sucker. His vote on the Beast was shrewd and clearly gave me pause.

STANDARD ATTACK ON KANG

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by Mimic

What is it with the wolves this game? None of them seem to take a few votes well at all...

Ha, I never take votes well.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by thephoenix

Anyone have a sense of how much energy Kang might have?

Indeed, that would be a pertinent question for you!

It's more than 1 and less than 100.

[Magneto]

Originally Posted by thephoenix

Anyone have a sense of how much energy Kang might have?

His time jump back to 8 AM today, I am guessing, resets his energy level to whatever it was at that time. Since I would guess that sending Doom to the distant future probably cost a fair bit of energy, I think he likely has a lot stored up.

[KangtheConqueror]

Originally Posted by Magneto

I blush to admit that Kang was fooling me. It would appear that I may be something of a sucker. His vote on the Beast was shrewd and clearly gave me pause.

STANDARD ATTACK ON KANG

Mr. F seriously killed my fun. Sans reveal that could've made for a fun back-and-forth day.

Not to worry though, my last gasp effort will help take care of the pesky loyalists. Best part is, it can't be stopped!

[Magneto]

Originally Posted by KangtheConqueror

Mr. F seriously killed my fun. Sans reveal that could've made for a fun back-and-forth day.

Not to worry though, my last gasp effort will help take care of the pesky loyalists. Best part is, it can't be stopped!

Au contraire, Monsieur.

STANDARD DEFENSE -- EXTEND TO PHOENIX

[Spider-Man]

Web Kang

[Spider-Man]

[thephoenix]

Originally Posted by Spider-Man

Web Kang

Gosh I was hoping you could do this.