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Old 08-07-2017, 03:16 PM   #3551
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Love Jaime's charge, great scene but I think I preferred the hardhome battle. Have to re-watch both again.

Having issues with Arya being great with the sword & dagger ... didn't see a lot of that training going on vs the bo/staff. Bronn being at the right place at the right time in the couple scenes seems too lucky

Don't like how the aunt-nephew relationship is developing. Don't we already have enough of that?

Liked the scene with Roderick and Jaime/Bronn.

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Old 08-07-2017, 03:18 PM   #3552
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Don't like how the aunt-nephew relationship is developing. Don't we already have enough of that?

Targaryens were into incest well before the current Lannisters.
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Old 08-07-2017, 03:18 PM   #3553
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That, and neither aunt nor nephew know they're related to one another.

EDIT: also the sword training, at least, happened under Syrio Forel. Presumably she kept practicing when she had the time alone.

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Old 08-07-2017, 03:22 PM   #3554
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They don't know they are related NOW, but they almost certainly will when they meet up with Bran again.
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Old 08-07-2017, 03:24 PM   #3555
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Or if they bring Howland Reed back into the picture.

I think I saw a dragon vs Jon standoff/face-to-face in next week's previews? Maybe something will come out of that
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:56 PM   #3556
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Having issues with Arya being great with the sword & dagger ... didn't see a lot of that training going on vs the bo/staff.

She was water dancing. Which implies she has been incorporating what Syrio taught her with what she learned with the faceless men.
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Old 08-07-2017, 09:38 PM   #3557
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And Briennes sword swings being stopped by a 90 pound girl and a skinny sword is ludicrous too...
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Old 08-07-2017, 09:51 PM   #3558
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Well sure, but she also morphs into other people, so...
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Old 08-07-2017, 10:17 PM   #3559
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And Briennes sword swings being stopped by a 90 pound girl and a skinny sword is ludicrous too...

That sorta amused me more than the lack of on screen training. If you put aside how much they fucked up the Faceless Men, she WAS trained by professional killers. I can deal with her skill with a blade.

Just not...that blade against (Hound Voice) Brienne of Fucking Tarth wielding a bigass practice sword.

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Old 08-07-2017, 11:18 PM   #3560
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I think thats why Syrio was hired, to show Arya that brute strength could be combated. I mean, he took out some goldcloaks with a wooden sword
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Old 08-08-2017, 11:51 AM   #3561
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That's it, I'm out on GOT. I can deal with:

1. A dwarf with little battle experience figuring out how to line an ocean with magical fire that lights with a flaming arrow
2. Assassins who not only look like someone - but have their same voice and mannerisms in a few seconds
3. Someone putting an extremely deadly poison on their lips, killing someone else by kissing them, taking an antidote, half ass wiping their lips off with a towel and then kissing someone else with no lingering issues (I mean, not even an upset stomach after the poison make out)??!

But, a smaller trained assassin being able to parry off a larger opponent's much bigger sword with small blade is just way too much fantasy for me to handle.
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Old 08-08-2017, 12:16 PM   #3562
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That's it, I'm out on GOT. I can deal with:

1. A dwarf with little battle experience figuring out how to line an ocean with magical fire that lights with a flaming arrow
2. Assassins who not only look like someone - but have their same voice and mannerisms in a few seconds
3. Someone putting an extremely deadly poison on their lips, killing someone else by kissing them, taking an antidote, half ass wiping their lips off with a towel and then kissing someone else with no lingering issues (I mean, not even an upset stomach after the poison make out)??!

But, a smaller trained assassin being able to parry off a larger opponent's much bigger sword with small blade is just way too much fantasy for me to handle.

Braavos, sir. Well played.
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Old 08-09-2017, 01:43 AM   #3563
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Finally saw the last two episodes. Thought they were both fantastic. Dany and Jon's scenes together have been fantastic. The battle scene in the most recent episode was 10x better than Euron's siege at sea IMO in terms of graphics, action and cinematography.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:13 PM   #3564
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ISiddiqui : I think it was a small part of the army, nothing more than a little dent. That was a rear-guard, nothing more imo. Why the two commanding officers stayed with that is another question, but i am deciding not to ask that. (plus, the IRL Romans did similarly idiotic stuff all the time).
Gotta figure the vast majority of that expeditionary force was well ahead and likely already in Kings Landing (remember, the Gold was reported to already be in King's Landing) and not everybody would have been needed to take Highgarden in the first place.


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Love Jaime's charge, great scene .

I am curious where they go from here as far as Jaime is concerned (there is no way he is dead, come now).
There were clearly numerous points in the series where he was on the brink of "doing the right thing" (well, POV-dependent of course) only for circumstances to dictate his actions. Even in this episode it is abundantly clear that he is clearly respected by his men and even someone like Dickon Tarly and hasn't 100% gone from antihero to villain. (and yes, i do still remember he was introduced as a cynical bastard who pushes a child of a tower)

This episode you clearly saw his helplessness at the whole thing, having to face Dragons on top of all the fucking shit he had to deal with so far.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:14 PM   #3565
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Also: Anybody have "Jaime kills Cersei to prevent unspeakable slaughter" in an office pool ? (and then possibly kills himself or go into Exile)
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:18 PM   #3566
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Also: Anybody have "Jaime kills Cersei to prevent unspeakable slaughter" in an office pool ? (and then possibly kills himself or go into Exile)

I thought Jaime killing Cersei to be a popular theory
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:19 PM   #3567
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Yeah, think I mentioned that a few pages back. Fits the prophecy and would be a killer way to end a season.

I would be a little disappointed if that's an insignificant part of the Lannister army, and if Jaime Bronn and the Tarleys are all alive. Seems like a massive scene like that would have more consequence in the story. Although I think with the Tyrell ending they are clearly setting up a Tyrion - Jaime reunion (and possibly the choice you mention down the road)
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:38 PM   #3568
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Yeah, think I mentioned that a few pages back. Fits the prophecy and would be a killer way to end a season.

I would be a little disappointed if that's an insignificant part of the Lannister army, and if Jaime Bronn and the Tarleys are all alive. Seems like a massive scene like that would have more consequence in the story. Although I think with the Tyrell ending they are clearly setting up a Tyrion - Jaime reunion (and possibly the choice you mention down the road)

I feel like if one of the major players had died in that attack it would have gotten screen time - and I'm actually floored Dickon didn't die, to be honest.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:43 PM   #3569
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I thought Jaime killing Cersei to be a popular theory

I am decently (and happily) disconnected from these sort of things, so wouldn't know. Totally plausible that i am less original/clever than i thought
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:46 PM   #3570
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Also: Anybody have "Jaime kills Cersei to prevent unspeakable slaughter" in an office pool ? (and then possibly kills himself or go into Exile)

... as in possibly "take the black"?
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:47 PM   #3571
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I think they established they were the stragglers at the tail end of the force. I like how they handled it, especially with the commanders being so involved, because there is a ton of historical precedence for this type of thing - as well as examples of what happens when segments of a marching army fall out of order.

I doubt Jamie or Bron is dead, but I would be less certain if GRRM was writing...
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:48 PM   #3572
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I thought Jaime killing Cersei to be a popular theory

I actually like the idea of the finale to the half-season to go something like this:

Jamie becomes convinced that Cersei needs to go, and we see him approach her chambers, as she breaks down in tears. This is intercut with flashbacks to Cersei's encounter with Maggy the Frog, who reiterates the prophecy she gave Cersei. This includes the part that was not shown the first time around, with the line about the valonqar strangling her. We see Jamie approach Cersei from behind...and then she whirls around and runs him through. She stands over him as he dies, taunting him, "Do you think me a fool, 'little brother'?" She then calls on assassins to murder Tyrion once and for all, breaking prophecy. That's one of the season cliffhangers, and I think a nice "WTF" moment for fan speculation.

In my mind, Arya actually kills Cersei in the final few episodes, and wears Jamie's face to taunt her, which fulfills the prophecy.

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Old 08-10-2017, 10:38 AM   #3573
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It's been quite a long time since a real WTF shock that completely upended everything happened. So a Cersei killing her brothers would be awesome, but killing Jamie would be silly as she's kind of her best commander and she still needs someone to run a military.

Also this is still a GRRM, some 'good guys' are going to get killed for no reason.

IMO, knowing what I know of GRRM (and admittedly, that's not a lot) and how one of his major themes is that the Nobles of Westeros are playing their dumb game they are ignoring the bigger threat and fucking over their people, I can easily see that he sticks Jon Snow (Targaryen) on the Iron Throne at the end. Because if Robert never raised his warhammer against the Crown, the King (or at least the Heir to the Throne) right now would be Jon. I could easily see GRRM basically say all this warfare and scheming was absolutely idiotic because the same person that was going to sit on the throne without it is sitting on the throne with it.
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:27 AM   #3574
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some 'good guys' are going to get killed for no reason.

RIP Sansa?
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:47 AM   #3575
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Possibly. I can also see Tyrion getting killed... if Dany does it (kill Tyrion) that would conflict a whole bunch of the fanbase... seems like something GRRM would put in the story just to fuck with people.
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:22 PM   #3576
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Possibly. I can also see Tyrion getting killed... if Dany does it (kill Tyrion) that would conflict a whole bunch of the fanbase... seems like something GRRM would put in the story just to fuck with people.

Agreed.
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:56 PM   #3577
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Tyrion is the 3rd Targaryen needed to ride the 3 dragons. He's not dying any time soon.
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:41 PM   #3578
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Who says all 3 dragons survive?
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:44 PM   #3579
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You have a point there sir, but still....
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:47 PM   #3580
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I actually like the counter-theory better... that Tyrion is true born and Cersei and Jamie are the product of Aerys II's rape.
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:57 PM   #3581
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I actually like the counter-theory better... that Tyrion is true born and Cersei and Jamie are the product of Aerys II's rape.
Would explain their attraction to each other...
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:24 PM   #3582
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That's interesting!
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:01 PM   #3583
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So I watch the battle from the last episode again (and again, and again). They really seemed to emphasize Jaime's attachment to his soldiers. He objects to flogging them, he refuses to flee before the battle, long take of him looking around and seeing his men being roasted.

I wonder if they're setting up Cersei being indifferent to lose of Jaime's men (as in "well we got the gold and paid off the Iron Bank, so fucking what about a few thousand replaceable men") as the thing that gets Jaime to really start to turn on Cersei.
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:32 PM   #3584
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I think they've done a good job of keeping Jaime in the grey area - he's basically Chaotic Neutral. He's probably one of the most realistic characters in the whole story. Whenever it seems like he's a "good guy" we get a scene like the talk with Edmure Tully at the siege of Riverrun last season...

If he survived, I think the scenes with Tyrion watching him at the battle might signal where things are going with him though, especially combined with Cersei and Euron, the knowledge of who killed Joffrey, etc.
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:25 PM   #3585
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IMO, knowing what I know of GRRM (and admittedly, that's not a lot) and how one of his major themes is that the Nobles of Westeros are playing their dumb game they are ignoring the bigger threat and fucking over their people, I can easily see that he sticks Jon Snow (Targaryen) on the Iron Throne at the end. Because if Robert never raised his warhammer against the Crown, the King (or at least the Heir to the Throne) right now would be Jon. I could easily see GRRM basically say all this warfare and scheming was absolutely idiotic because the same person that was going to sit on the throne without it is sitting on the throne with it.
Nah, Aegon would be.
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:16 PM   #3586
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Sir Not-appearing-in-this-film

(edit: for book discussion, he'd actually have to be verified to be true-Aegon as well)
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:22 PM   #3587
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I think they've done a good job of keeping Jaime in the grey area - he's basically Chaotic Neutral. He's probably one of the most realistic characters in the whole story. Whenever it seems like he's a "good guy" we get a scene like the talk with Edmure Tully at the siege of Riverrun last season...

If he survived, I think the scenes with Tyrion watching him at the battle might signal where things are going with him though, especially combined with Cersei and Euron, the knowledge of who killed Joffrey, etc.


More lawful neutral. The Mountain was chaotic neutral.
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:31 PM   #3588
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Nah, Aegon would be.

Right. Jon is a bastard, anyway you spin it. The only question remaining is what is his lineage.

It's not like Gentry is sitting on the throne right now.
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:40 PM   #3589
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What if the way you spin it is that Rheagar and Lyanna were married at the Tower of Joy? Yes, it'd be a second marriage, but what are the rules on bigamy of a Targaryen Prince?
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:15 PM   #3590
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What if the way you spin it is that Rheagar and Lyanna were married at the Tower of Joy? Yes, it'd be a second marriage, but what are the rules on bigamy of a Targaryen Prince?

Spoiler

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Old 08-11-2017, 03:46 PM   #3591
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Spoiler

Spoiler
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:52 PM   #3592
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Spoiler

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Old 08-11-2017, 04:40 PM   #3593
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Don't we basically have to have a Howland Reed tower of Joy reveal now. I dunno if he was cast but he has to show up now.
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Old 08-11-2017, 05:56 PM   #3594
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Don't we basically have to have a Howland Reed tower of Joy reveal now. I dunno if he was cast but he has to show up now.

Bran is creepily seeing everything.

Oh, and hollmt, I haven't, but I'd imagine them introducing the scorpion and saying all sorts of REALLY IMPORTANT THINGS(tm) about how dragons are not invulnerable seems to be foreshadowing something big there. Also at some point there likely has to be a limit on "how many damned hidden Targs are there?"
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:57 AM   #3595
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Sir Not-appearing-in-this-film

(edit: for book discussion, he'd actually have to be verified to be true-Aegon as well)
Forget the possible switching & Jon Connington plotline that likely leads nowhere - if Robert never rises in rebellion the Mountain never murders Elia Martell & Rhaegar's firstborn son & daughter. Even if Rhaeger had married Lyanna "Jon Snow" is the equivalent of Tommen, not Joffrey.

(/pushes glasses higher on nose)
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:20 PM   #3596
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Let's not forget, if Robert had not risen in rebellion, Rhaegar would be alive and king now. Or maybe even the Mad King, although I would think after 20 years he would either succumb to old age or his madness.
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:33 PM   #3597
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Most are likely aware of this, but HBO posts pretty cool background videos from time to time

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Old 08-12-2017, 04:50 PM   #3598
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Most are likely aware of this, but HBO posts pretty cool background videos from time to time

Thanks for posting!
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:22 PM   #3599
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Forget the possible switching & Jon Connington plotline that likely leads nowhere - if Robert never rises in rebellion the Mountain never murders Elia Martell & Rhaegar's firstborn son & daughter. Even if Rhaeger had married Lyanna "Jon Snow" is the equivalent of Tommen, not Joffrey.

(/pushes glasses higher on nose)

Ok, that's fair. But Jon may have been #2 in line (and a fatal illness or something away from it)
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Old 08-12-2017, 10:09 PM   #3600
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Ok, that's fair. But Jon may have been #2 in line (and a fatal illness or something away from it)

Wasn't the whole thing really about Rhaegar wanting/needing a third child for a prophecy and Elia couldn't have any more?
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