Game of Thrones on HBO

[booradley]

So excited for tonight. Hope it turns out to be epic!

[Edward64]

Oh com'on, that was way too easy!

[Edward64]

A couple great scenes already 15 min into the movie.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Forget the possible switching & Jon Connington plotline that likely leads nowhere - if Robert never rises in rebellion the Mountain never murders Elia Martell & Rhaegar's firstborn son & daughter. Even if Rhaeger had married Lyanna "Jon Snow" is the equivalent of Tommen, not Joffrey.

(/pushes glasses higher on nose)

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Ok, that's fair. But Jon may have been #2 in line (and a fatal illness or something away from it)

I take my backtracking back... Jon would have been King absent Robert's Rebellion.

Annulment makes bastards.

[Edward64]

Great episode. Not alot of action but lots of reunions (probably a little too many for a single episode but I'll take it).

Liked the Cersei surprise. Liked the continued interaction/tension between Jon and Dani. Liked the hammer dude.

Did not like how they conveniently found the prisoners to go with Jon.

Not sure about Arya and Littlefinger.

[JPhillips]

I'd watch a whole series of adventures of that magnificent seven.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Liked the Cersei surprise.

Yeah, that was unexpected and has the effect of drawing Jaime even closer. Also the whole Cersei knew about the secret meeting thing was a nice touch.

Liked the hammer dude.

Gendry. Who is not perpetually rowing (great line by Davos who also had the other best line of the series, regarding the What do I know who has lived to a ripe old age"

Not sure about Arya and Littlefinger.

The cat and mouse game was fun. The found message from Sansa seemed to be from Joffrey's time (that was the name prominent in there, along with 'steal his crown', I think). And, of course, Littlefinger is behind all the attempts by the Lords to make Sansa Queen in the North.

[bhlloy]

Was the note some sort of confession that was used to condemn Ned Stark way back in season 1? I have some vague recollection of Sansa being forced to do something like that

And yeah, Littlefinger is still way smarter than anyone is giving him credit for. Some serious sister issues being foreshadowed here

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Was the note some sort of confession that was used to condemn Ned Stark way back in season 1? I have some vague recollection of Sansa being forced to do something like that

A ha!! That's probably most definitely it. She sent it to Robb so he wouldn't take up arms. That seriously would not look good for Sansa if it got out.

[ISiddiqui]

Oh, also confirmation that Bronn is superhuman, because he can grab a guy in full plate mail from the bottom of a river and swim all the way across it with said guy in tow...

[sabotai]

I think the letter was what Sansa wrote to Robb after this scene:

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Oh, also confirmation that Bronn is superhuman, because he can grab a guy in full plate mail from the bottom of a river and swim all the way across it with said guy in tow...

Yup, way too easy.

[bronconick]

Gilly solves the biggest mystery key to the show, and Sam's too busy complaining to listen.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Gilly solves the biggest mystery key to the show, and Sam's too busy complaining to listen.

Ha! Of course, only Bran knows at this point that Jon was the son of Rheagar and Lyanna.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Gilly solves the biggest mystery key to the show, and Sam's too busy complaining to listen.

Poor guy, give him a break. He'll find out about his family soon enough ... btw, that was a great scene, dignified to the end.

Is there an out in "taking the black" if all of the sudden you are an heir to a major house?

[bhlloy]

So, given some of the heavy foreshadowing over the last couple of weeks, another shot at how this ends

The magnificent seven manage to bring back a white walker, but Jorah and Gendry don't make it back
Arya and Sansa situation blows up and Arya leaves to try to finish off her list. With Jon getting the white walker to Kings Landing, Littlefinger sees that the note gets out and ends up in control of Winterfell
This season ends with Cersei agreeing to the armistice (nod nod, wink wink) as the white walkers reach the wall and start to overwhelm it (end shot)

Jon's lineage and ability to ride one of the dragons is revealed early and the alliance makes some headway against the white walkers, until halfway through the season Cersei stabs them in the back and one of the dragons and riders are taken out of the picture (guessing that it will be Dany given the history that Gilly stumbled on in tonight's episode)
Arya is caught and killed by Cersei who knows everything
White walkers start winning and overrunning the north. When it looks like the Lannisters will be the one house left standing but it will be a Pyrrhic victory, Jaime takes out Cersei and his unborn child to save Westeros and kills himself in the process, fulfilling the prophesy.
Tyrion is now head of house Lannister, and the reforged alliance with Jon at the head of Dany's erstwhile army ends up driving the white walkers back. Sansa kills Littlefinger.
End result - Jon on the throne, with Sansa queen in the north and Tyrion of House Lannister, Sam of House Tarley, Yara of House Greyjoy and a bunch more live happily ever after. Fin

By the way, what has happened to the unsullied. Assume they are still being blockaded by Euron? (which would be another plot end that would have to be wrapped up somewhere)

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Is there an out in "taking the black" if all of the sudden you are an heir to a major house?

They serve until their deaths (Jon already had one of those... so he gets to be King now ).

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Is there an out in "taking the black" if all of the sudden you are an heir to a major house?

Maybe go for the Jon Snow method?

ETA: The Others take you ISiddiqui!!!

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Jaime takes out Cersei and his unborn child to save Westeros and kills himself in the process, fulfilling the prophesy.

I have actually heard of a more interesting way that the prophecy unfolds - Cersei dies in childbirth, hence Jaime ends up killing her by impregnating her.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I have actually heard of a more interesting way that the prophecy unfolds - Cersei dies in childbirth, hence Jaime ends up killing her by impregnating her.

Doesn't seem like a fitting end for her. Either she wins the game or she dies gloriously somehow.

[NobodyHere]

I think Cersei becomes a white walker and then Jaime kills her

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I have actually heard of a more interesting way that the prophecy unfolds - Cersei dies in childbirth, hence Jaime ends up killing her by impregnating her.

Hmm. That makes a ton of sense

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Doesn't seem like a fitting end for her. Either she wins the game or she dies gloriously somehow.

For an author who has gone on record saying he's writing to up-end fantasy cliches, having non-fitting ends seems almost... well, fitting. After all, Tywin Lannister probably didn't deserve to die on the shitter, but yet he did.

[booradley]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I have actually heard of a more interesting way that the prophecy unfolds - Cersei dies in childbirth, hence Jaime ends up killing her by impregnating her.

Oh, if only her child turns out to be a dwarf!

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Gilly solves the biggest mystery key to the show, and Sam's too busy complaining to listen.

I wonder if they will ever get back to it, though.

Rhaegar annulling his marriage and marrying Lyanna in Dorne would mean that Jon is the true heir to the Iron Throne. Which is probably completely moot at this point.

[Neon_Chaos]

dola,

Oh, and love that the Expendables are heading past the wall. Should be fun.

[Edward64]

What was the significance of the fire/light on top of the tower as Sam was pulling away?

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Edward64

What was the significance of the fire/light on top of the tower as Sam was pulling away?

Oldtown, where the Citadel is, is a port town. It's a lighthouse.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I take my backtracking back... Jon would have been King absent Robert's Rebellion.

Annulment makes bastards.

Touche. Though this just leads to more questions - I know there were other reasons too, but if Rhaegar divorced his wife & married Lyanna, why would he keep that a secret instead of telling Ned Stark and possibly avoiding the war?

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Oh, also confirmation that Bronn is superhuman, because he can grab a guy in full plate mail from the bottom of a river and swim all the way across it with said guy in tow...

And apparently either escape from a whole army, or said army has no interest in capturing prisoners or killing the guys who hurt Drogon and tried to ride her down. (I'm not sure Daenerys would know Jamie Lannister on sight, or Tyrion would be pointing him out instead of hoping he can escape.) Having the Tarly's killed offscreen & no explanation for Jamie & Bronn showing back up in King's Landing seemed a bit of a wasted opportunity imo.

[Neon_Chaos]

My only WTF moment really is that they are going to basically try and snatch one single undead from the undead army currently marching to the wall, and then hightail it out of there and head back to King's Landing / Dragonstone with it. WHAT.

But other than that, it should be fun. lol.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

And apparently either escape from a whole army, or said army has no interest in capturing prisoners or killing the guys who hurt Drogon and tried to ride her down. (I'm not sure Daenerys would know Jamie Lannister on sight, or Tyrion would be pointing him out instead of hoping he can escape.) Having the Tarly's killed offscreen & no explanation for Jamie & Bronn showing back up in King's Landing seemed a bit of a wasted opportunity imo.

Good point. I was too distracted by Bronn and how he lifted a platemail Jaime out of the deep abyss.

[bronconick]

O/U is 2.5 on how many of the 7 in the snow survive the battle

Jon is likely safe. I think Tormund,Beric, and Gendry are possibly goners. The Hound entirely rests on whether we get Cleganebowl or not. Jorah dying where his father did seems apt.

[spleen1015]

I see the Wyndham wizard dying as well as one of the dudes in the Brotherhood.

Why bring Gendry or Jorah back into the story just to have them die doing something stupid like capturing a white walker?

If Tyrion turns out to be a Targaryen, Dany's bro, right, doesn't that make him the rightful heir to the throne?

Cercei dying in childbirth sounds like a good way for her to go in this story.

[MrBug708]

I'm hoping there is a greater purpose for Gendry

[Vince, Pt. II]

Another great episode; Davos is brilliant as ever, and we finally get another Varys and Tyrion scene worthy of the characters they are. Dany with the slight heel turn is a welcome change, and absolutely love that we not only have Gendry back, but that he's a badass with a warhammer and he has some instant chemistry with Jon. While the tattered remnants of the Brotherhood magically making it to Eastwatch off screen is a little jarring, I'm ok with it. You've got something like 5 of the baddest dudes in the land in that small group, and I'm just sad that the band will only be together for one show, it appears. While Oldtown has been a fairly large disappointment, I actually really enjoy the way they built up the relationship between Samwell and the Archmaester, and I foresee some give to the stodginess later on that results in some much-needed aid at some point.

I still really, really hope that Tyrion is actually a Lannister. One of my least favorite theories/suppositions floating around out there. With all of the build up/foreshadowing they've been doing about the Dragons not being invincible, we may not actually need three dragon riders...

My money is on Berric Dondarrion and Thoros being the "big" deaths out of our magnificent seven - seems like they put too much work into bringing Gendry back to just kill him off and episode later, Jon obviously has work left to do, we have the Cleganebowl that really needs to happen, and I cannot imagine the writers wanting to add the mostly unnecessary chaos that would happen with the free folk if Tormund dies. Plus Tormund and Brienne needs to happen I will miss Berric and Thoros (though I think the show could have utilized them a touch more), but they definitely seem to have outlived their usefulness in a plot sense. They've pushed Arya to Braavos, Gendry to Melisandre and Dragonstone, and now have gotten Sandor Clegane to (and beyond) the Wall.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Dola - can't believe I forgot to mention the Lannisters. I think Cersei letting Tyrion show up at King's Landing and leave alive is supremely out of character, even having Jaime absolve him of murdering Joffrey. Seems to me like she found out about the meeting after the fact and wanted to appear like she knows everything. I am also suspicious that her pregnancy is a ruse to keep Jaime at heel; she can tell he is losing (has lost?) faith in their situation and she needs something to keep him fighting.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Touche. Though this just leads to more questions - I know there were other reasons too, but if Rhaegar divorced his wife & married Lyanna, why would he keep that a secret instead of telling Ned Stark and possibly avoiding the war?

Remember the Sansa letter referenced later? I think that Ned would have dismissed it as coerced. And Robert would never believe it. I'm also fairly sure that Ned's father and brother would still go to Aerys to ask for Lyanna's freedom and get roasted alive.

Also if you speak out, you lose Dorne as an ally in the war.

Originally Posted by spleen1015

If Tyrion turns out to be a Targaryen, Dany's bro, right, doesn't that make him the rightful heir to the throne?

He'd be a bastard, so no.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Touche. Though this just leads to more questions - I know there were other reasons too, but if Rhaegar divorced his wife & married Lyanna, why would he keep that a secret instead of telling Ned Stark and possibly avoiding the war?
And apparently either escape from a whole army, or said army has no interest in capturing prisoners or killing the guys who hurt Drogon and tried to ride her down. (I'm not sure Daenerys would know Jamie Lannister on sight, or Tyrion would be pointing him out instead of hoping he can escape.) Having the Tarly's killed offscreen & no explanation for Jamie & Bronn showing back up in King's Landing seemed a bit of a wasted opportunity imo.

Wait, what? You would have shown none of the Tarly scene or the Bronn-Jaime stuff, just to create mystery around what happened? Is that what you're advocating there? If so, I heartily disagree. The showrunners would have been ridiculed and roasted if they ended a premium episode with a major character sinking into a watery abyss and then magically transport him to safety with no explanation. And what gain can be had from having the Tarlys killed off screen, not only the meaning of the act itself, but what the scene meant for Daenerys' development as a ruler-queen and the impact it could have on Sam.

I feel like I must be missing something because your suggestion seems absolutely daft to me, and you're not usually someone I see say something I absolutely cannot connect to or comprehend.

[molson]

Ya I wasn't sure what that sentence meant either - I wondered if maybe BishopMVP missed the part where there were burned alive and stuff.

[Atocep]

I think the Jamie/Bron bromance continues to push Bron further and further out of character. Bron wouldn't fight the mountain to save Tyrion, but he'll jump in front of a fire breathing dragon to save Jamie?

One of the things that has made asoiaf work so well is people died when they died. They didn't die when it made sense for the plot. The deeper we get into this story the more obvious plot armor is becoming.

[ISiddiqui]

Well Jamie did promise him a castle...

[Chief Rum]

So...we have no Episode 9 this year, but traditionally, GOTs has used that episode as the one "big stuff" happens. Ned Stark, Blackwater, Red Wedding, Battle of the Bastards, etc.

If we move Episode 9 to simply the penultimate episode of the season, that would make this coming Sunday's episode the big one for this season.

Do you all think the showrunners will stick with that pattern in a seven episode season?

[Arles]

Aside from Dany serving flaming Dick(-on), there wasn't much killing going on this episode. That makes me agree with Chief Rum that next Sunday will have more of a key body count.

I also think Cersei's pregnancy move is because she feels Jamie slipping away. I'd be surprised if she is actually pregnant. Overall, though, I've really enjoyed this season and am excited to see what the next few weeks bring.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

So...we have no Episode 9 this year, but traditionally, GOTs has used that episode as the one "big stuff" happens. Ned Stark, Blackwater, Red Wedding, Battle of the Bastards, etc.

If we move Episode 9 to simply the penultimate episode of the season, that would make this coming Sunday's episode the big one for this season.

Do you all think the showrunners will stick with that pattern in a seven episode season?

Well it does seem like we'll have the Perhaps Magnificent 7 trying to steal a wight plot be the 'big stuff'. It probably won't be Hardholme levels, but the Army of the Dead is always good for WTF stuff.

[sabotai]

I think the plan to kidnap a wight or white walker is not a good plan. I wonder if that really came from Martin or if the showrunners were thinking "We've been hyping the army of the dead for all this time, we've got to make them a focus point somehow".

But on top of that, I doubt Cersei would even care. If she can't have the Seven Kingdoms, I think she'd rather the world end than have someone else rule it.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by sabotai

But on top of that, I doubt Cersei would even care. If she can't have the Seven Kingdoms, I think she'd rather the world end than have someone else rule it.

Correct, and it's something Tyrion should know. There's zero point in trying to reason with Cersei. She's going to find a way to stab you in the back when it's all said and done.

Expecting her to make a rational decision because they show her a white walker is foolish.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I think Cersei becomes a white walker and then Jaime kills her

Cersei as Ice Queen has a nice symbolism to it.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Correct, and it's something Tyrion should know. There's zero point in trying to reason with Cersei. She's going to find a way to stab you in the back when it's all said and done.

Expecting her to make a rational decision because they show her a white walker is foolish.

I don't even follow the plan. The army travels in, well, an army and maybe a few break off randomly. You're just going to wander until you find one of these smaller packs?

[whomario]

Good episode i thought. The Gendry joke was terrific, the character fun. Not sure how anybody can believe that Cersei will be swayed (for real, not faking it) by even a white walker waltzing up to her and flipping her the finger. Maybe self-preservation/child-preservation, now that another little Lannister is on it's way (her one redeeming trait, aside from her cheekbones).

The Expendables (+ John) going north is likely going to be spectacular, but seems a rather unnecessary detour overall ... And yeah: Will they a) try for a Wight, b) try for a White Walker or c) try for a Wight and luck into a White Walker, somehow ?

Not sure how to feel about the Xth rendition of the Littlefinger-show, i was over that particular strain of plot like 3 seasons ago.

btw, re: Cersei's future:

The Prophecy to Cersei (5.01) explicitly said she'd have 3 children, so either that woman's prophecy-skills are not foolproof after all or that child will die while still in the womb. Or you read it differently and then yeah, this 4th child could be the "valonquar" (3 children, then stuff, then another), though a new-born won't hardly be able to wrap his/her hand around Cersei's throat and choke her to death. Long story short: I will now again stop reading up on these things and just enjoy the ride, at least until after the season

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by whomario

The Prophecy to Cersei (5.01) explicitly said she'd have 3 children, so either that woman's prophecy-skills are not foolproof after all or that child will die while still in the womb. Or you read it differently and then yeah, this 4th child could be the "valonquar" (3 children, then stuff, then another), though a new-born won't hardly be able to wrap his/her hand around Cersei's throat and choke her to death. Long story short: I will now again stop reading up on these things and just enjoy the ride, at least until after the season

Cersei dying in child birth would be par for the course when it comes to Westerosi women. Joanna Lannister, Lyanna Stark, Rhaella Targaryen, probably many others.