POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

He now wants IVF.

Wants to decriminalize weed.

Thinks a total abortion ban is not good.

I think he is going to endorse Kamala next.

— YS (@NYinLA2121) August 31, 2024

Kamala wants to build the wall.
Kamala wants no taxes on tips.
Kamala wants fracking.

It’s all an upside down world, at least, superficially.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Kamala wants to build the wall.
Kamala wants no taxes on tips.
Kamala wants fracking.

It’s all an upside down world, at least, superficially.

It is definitely all superficial. Both of their plans with no taxs on tips is silly and will never happen. Harris' plan on taxes for unrealized gains is also fanciful. Meanwhile Trump is never going to have a plan to pay for IVF. I'm sure that plan will be two weeks away like his health plan and his infrastructure plan.

[RainMaker]

It's almost like both sides have settled on right wing neoliberal policies and just use a few wedge issues to act like they're really different from one another.

And yes I'm aware how important an FCC spot is to some of you but they have little power and don't do much.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's almost like both sides have settled on right wing neoliberal policies and just use a few wedge issues to act like they're really different from one another.

And yes I'm aware how important an FCC spot is to some of you but they have little power and don't do much.

The thing i feel you continue to not understand, is a president is more than their policies. Yes you may be correct that four years of either may not turn out that differently from a policy standpoint. But it absolutely matters in the general forward progress of the country and the treatment of anyone who isnt white, Christian, and male or falls onto the maga beliefs.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Danny

The thing i feel you continue to not understand, is a president is more than their policies. Yes you may be correct that four years of either may not turn out that differently from a policy standpoint. But it absolutely matters in the general forward progress of the country and the treatment of anyone who isnt white, Christian, and male or falls onto the maga beliefs.

The current administration is doing an ethnic cleansing right now. They also fully support Trump's draconian immigration policy against Hispanics. Not sure the "treatment of non-whites" is anything more than some carefully crafted statements and meaningless political stunts.

[RainMaker]

I wonder if the Harris campaign just has an endless supply of these things that they'll trickle out till the election.

Unearthed video: JD Vance attacks women “who can't have kids” because they “passed the biological period when it was possible” as “miserable” people who “have no real value system” and struggle to find “meaning” pic.twitter.com/IWFaHQFswJ

— Kamala HQ (@KamalaHQ) August 31, 2024

[bronconick]

It's probably all the stuff Tim Ryan didn't use since he ran as a Republican-Lite against Vance.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The current administration is doing an ethnic cleansing right now. They also fully support Trump's draconian immigration policy against Hispanics. Not sure the "treatment of non-whites" is anything more than some carefully crafted statements and meaningless political stunts.

you act like Biden is sending the national guard into Dearborn to kill Muslim newborns. Do you have a flare for the dramatic in everything you do because I would love to party

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

you act like Biden is sending the national guard into Dearborn to kill Muslim newborns. Do you have a flare for the dramatic in everything you do because I would love to party

He is funding and coordinating a genocide. It would not happen without our support. It is one of the most despicable things this country has ever done. It's not dramatic to you because you don't view Palestinians as people just like most Democrats in power.

If you are willing to carry out a genocide, you are probably not the bastion of inclusiveness that you're trying to portray the party as.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

He is funding and coordinating a genocide. It would not happen without our support. It is one of the most despicable things this country has ever done. It's not dramatic to you because you don't view Palestinians as people just like most Democrats in power.

If you are willing to carry out a genocide, you are probably not the bastion of inclusiveness that you're trying to portray the party as.

I'm sure a Trump administration would welcome the Palestinian people with open arms....

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I'm sure a Trump administration would welcome the Palestinian people with open arms....

That's not a defense of the genocide you support.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That's not a defense of the genocide you support.

It is downright comical that you think things would be different under another administration

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It is downright comical that you think things would be different under another administration

I never said it would be different. I'm pointing out the absurdity of assuming a party actively committing an ethnic cleansing is somehow more tolerant of minorities.

It would be identical, except liberals will be appalled at it. And we probably wouldn't waste a bunch of money on PR stunts like the pier. It's like arguing whether Hitler or Goebbels is better for the Jews in Nazi Germany. There is no "lesser of two evils" with genocide.

[albionmoonlight]

Do you know who probably needs to be asked some questions? Whoever was running the ops campaign for JD Vances’sSenate opponent. It turns out there are a lot of videos and podcasts of him out there saying really weird stuff about childless women. Stuff that might’ve actually resonated in a Senate campaign for anyone taking 10 minutes to look for them.

[Ksyrup]

Yep. Not quite to the level of "where was Santos' opponent's campaign research," but come ON.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Do you know who probably needs to be asked some questions? Whoever was running the ops campaign for JD Vances’sSenate opponent. It turns out there are a lot of videos and podcasts of him out there saying really weird stuff about childless women. Stuff that might’ve actually resonated in a Senate campaign for anyone taking 10 minutes to look for them.

Tim Ryan was too busy throwing footballs at TVs and trying to pretend he wasn't a Democrat.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I never said it would be different. I'm pointing out the absurdity of assuming a party actively committing an ethnic cleansing is somehow more tolerant of minorities.

It would be identical, except liberals will be appalled at it. And we probably wouldn't waste a bunch of money on PR stunts like the pier. It's like arguing whether Hitler or Goebbels is better for the Jews in Nazi Germany. There is no "lesser of two evils" with genocide.

Difference being the Jews in Germany/Europe/Russia were not attacking Germans, whether Nazis, military, or civilians. The Nazis (actual party members) and most Germans, for that matter ("we didn't know"? yeah ok), were not responding to attacks by Jews who had a goal of eliminating them. They just decided to kill all of the Jews as a matter of policy.

Maybe it's just me but I would say responding to an attack on civilians, like Oct 8, is a lesser of two evils. I'm sure your milage will vary.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Difference being the Jews in Germany/Europe/Russia were not attacking Germans, whether Nazis, military, or civilians. The Nazis (actual party members) and most Germans, for that matter ("we didn't know"? yeah ok), were not responding to attacks by Jews who had a goal of eliminating them. They just decided to kill all of the Jews as a matter of policy.

Maybe it's just me but I would say responding to an attack on civilians, like Oct 8, is a lesser of two evils. I'm sure your milage will vary.

This has gone on much longer than October 7th. Gaza is a concentration camp and many concentration camps in Nazi Germany had uprisings. So did ghettoized neighborhoods like in Warsaw. And this is absolutely policy in Israel. Just read what their leaders say. They all advocate for genocide. Now maybe that changes your opinion on what the Nazis did, but not for me.

And who is attacking Israel? Hamas? It's a group of 20-30k fighters based in Gaza. The tens of thousands of kids murdered in Gaza were not part of Hamas. Neither were the tens of thousands of women. Nor were humanitarian workers or journalists. And they're bombing the West Bank right now where Hamas has no power.

Anyway, my point is that you don't get to pretend the Democrats are the non-racist party when they are fully supporting an apartheid regime and funding a genocide. They view Palestinians the same was as Republicans, they'll just try to make the optics look a little better so people don't feel as bad about it.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Tim Ryan was too busy throwing footballs at TVs and trying to pretend he wasn't a Democrat.

Such a baffling campaign since Sherrod Brown is the blueprint for winning Ohio as a Democrat. I get moderating on some issues in those states but if you're going to run as a Republican, I think the voters will just vote for the actual Republican.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Difference being the Jews in Germany/Europe/Russia were not attacking Germans, whether Nazis, military, or civilians. The Nazis (actual party members) and most Germans, for that matter ("we didn't know"? yeah ok), were not responding to attacks by Jews who had a goal of eliminating them. They just decided to kill all of the Jews as a matter of policy.

Maybe it's just me but I would say responding to an attack on civilians, like Oct 8, is a lesser of two evils. I'm sure your milage will vary.

Not just you. It's the policy of the US, and our commitment to our allies. If our allies need to be allied, then their choices become our choices. It sucks that the Palestinians have been attacking Israel for like 50+ years, and now this happened. It's war, it sucks those people have been held captive by their leaders and that literal generations have been raised with no plan for how to move forward. People get the leadership they deserve. If Hamas is it, then they will bear the brunt of that. Whether that's fair, or right or not is rather irrelevant. It just is.



We could and should not have bankrolled this. But I think RM is wrong if he thinks they couldn't have done this without us assisting. They could have done it easily.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

People get the leadership they deserve. If Hamas is it, then they will bear the brunt of that. Whether that's fair, or right or not is rather irrelevant. It just is.

I think it's rather disgusting to believe that infants deserve to be bombed in any scenario. Most of the population wasn't even alive when Hamas took power and has no say in the government. Not to mention that actual Hamas fighters are a minuscule number of the Gazan population.

And Israel is currently doing this on the West Bank too as we speak, where Hamas is not in power. So this isn't just about Hamas.

Originally Posted by PilotMan

But I think RM is wrong if he thinks they couldn't have done this without us assisting. They could have done it easily.

They literally tried this when Obama was in power and ran out of ammunition a month later and had to come crawling back for more handouts. We don't need a crystal ball to know how that scenario plays out.

[bob]

Someone help me out here because I don’t have a firm grasp of Israeli law.

I keep seeing people say Netanyahu has to keep the war going or he’ll lose power and perhaps be persecuted. Are elections suspended right now or is it just a general voters won’t change horse midstream thing?

Thanks in advance.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

This has gone on much longer than October 7th. Gaza is a concentration camp and many concentration camps in Nazi Germany had uprisings. So did ghettoized neighborhoods like in Warsaw. And this is absolutely policy in Israel. Just read what their leaders say. They all advocate for genocide. Now maybe that changes your opinion on what the Nazis did, but not for me.

And who is attacking Israel? Hamas? It's a group of 20-30k fighters based in Gaza. The tens of thousands of kids murdered in Gaza were not part of Hamas. Neither were the tens of thousands of women. Nor were humanitarian workers or journalists. And they're bombing the West Bank right now where Hamas has no power.

Anyway, my point is that you don't get to pretend the Democrats are the non-racist party when they are fully supporting an apartheid regime and funding a genocide. They view Palestinians the same was as Republicans, they'll just try to make the optics look a little better so people don't feel as bad about it.

The scale of comparing this to Nazi Germany is simply silly. The Nazis worked on exterminating Jews (and other groups too including the mentally ill) on a continental scale, Europe, and then expanded that into Asia by doing the same in Russia. There are no gas chambers in Gaza, nor selection lines where one goes left or right, no trains bringing in victims from far away countries that Israel has conquered. The Nazis industrialized killing with the goal of making it as efficient as possible. That wasn't enough though as they also tried to come up with ways to dispose of those millions upon millions of bodies so they could deny what they had done. Almost forgot to mention they also robbed the corpses of anything of value too. There's a lot more but how about we just leave it at etc. etc. etc. etc.

You mention what your point is, well here's mine. How about you stop pretending that what is going on in Israel and Gaza (yes Israel too) is anything like what went on in Europe and Asia due to the Nazis?

There are terrible things going on in Gaza and Israel on both sides. If you oppose US support through your tax dollars and want that stopped that's a valid position but I'm curious, does that make you an anti-Semite? I ask because you say the Dem party is racist because of their support of Israel. Personally I don't believe you want US support of Israel in this war stopped because you are anti-Semite. I also don't believe the Dem-party has supported Israel because they are a racist party. The reasons are not that simply defined.

[dubb93]

So, Trump went on Fox News and said he had every right to interfere in elections. I'm well aware that it doesn't matter what he says at this point but apparently, he's hitting that point as well.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Sweed

You mention what your point is, well here's mine. How about you stop pretending that what is going on in Israel and Gaza (yes Israel too) is anything like what went on in Europe and Asia due to the Nazis?

The scale is different but not the process. They've put Palestinians in large concentration camps and are now exterminating them. If there is another genocide you'd like to compare it to, that's fine.

Originally Posted by Sweed

There are terrible things going on in Gaza and Israel on both sides. If you oppose US support through your tax dollars and want that stopped that's a valid position but I'm curious, does that make you an anti-Semite? I ask because you say the Dem party is racist because of their support of Israel. Personally I don't believe you want US support of Israel in this war stopped because you are anti-Semite. I also don't believe the Dem-party has supported Israel because they are a racist party. The reasons are not that simply defined.

Israel is a country, not a religion. I'm opposed to any theocratic ethnostate regardless of religion or the ethnicity. Just as my opposition to apartheid South Africa didn't mean I hated Christians.

As far as why they are supported, that's an opinion. They have immense lobbying power which does play a role. But both parties have shown their disdain for Muslims for decades. I'm guessing if a Muslim ally like Saudi Arabia was genociding white Christians, we would not be funding and defending it. And it's tough to say that a party isn't racist if they are actively engaging in an ethnic cleansing.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by bob

Someone help me out here because I don’t have a firm grasp of Israeli law.

I keep seeing people say Netanyahu has to keep the war going or he’ll lose power and perhaps be persecuted. Are elections suspended right now or is it just a general voters won’t change horse midstream thing?

Thanks in advance.

It's both. They won't call for elections during a war (at least so far) and as long as he's Prime Minister, they can't send him to jail yet. It's why you're seeing him ignore all ceasefire talks and try to expand the war to Lebanon and Iran.

It's very similar to Trump (they both are extremely far right). They sort of need to be in power to avoid jail.

Israel also has a unique political system. There are a ton of parties but they don't have huge divide over major issues. They all openly support genocide and are similar on economic issues. The biggest divide is whether Orthodox Jews have to serve in the military, which is actually a huge issue in the country. Outside of that, there are just a lot of tiny parties with tiny issues they support. There is a party in the coalition that wants to abolish women from being able to read and write. A party that only cares about banning gay people. Parties focused on settlers. Even a party that is focused on all the Russians who immigrated.

[Atocep]

The Aurora, Colorado "gang" stuff is the perfect illustration of the right wing social media apparatus. Take the smallest kernel of truth and turn into something racist to fear monger over.

[Brian Swartz]

My solution to the political ads stuff is I don't watch TV, listen to the radio, etc. I don't miss any of it. -

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The Aurora, Colorado "gang" stuff is the perfect illustration of the right wing social media apparatus. Take the smallest kernel of truth and turn into something racist to fear monger over.

Is this actually happening? I've been reading about it on my "For You" tab on Twitter, which is filled with right wing crap. And now the Hell's Angels are coming to reclaim it, but no mainstream news sites are talking about it at all. I feel like it could easily be BS.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Mota

Is this actually happening? I've been reading about it on my "For You" tab on Twitter, which is filled with right wing crap. And now the Hell's Angels are coming to reclaim it, but no mainstream news sites are talking about it at all. I feel like it could easily be BS.

None of it is happening. From what I've gathered, a slum lord was notified the city was shutting down his apartments, for being a slumlord, and he posted or stated somewhere that these Vietnamese gangs are taking over his complexes and that's why they're shutting down. Right wing social media has run with it.

The cops actually had to go out and confirm this wasn't happening and all the city has really said that while there is concerns of gang activity in the area, that's not the case here, and the city is moving forward on closing the complexes.

[Flasch186]

The Aurora mayor did say some apartment complexes were run over with gangs but that the city had not been overall.


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[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

The Aurora mayor did say some apartment complexes were run over with gangs but that the city had not been overall.


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The police chief contradicted him and said there's gang activity in the area, but they haven't over run the complexes in question.

[JPhillips]

And the Hell's Angels thing isn't true, but there is a rally in CO over Labor Day.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The police chief contradicted him and said there's gang activity in the area, but they haven't over run the complexes in question.

I've seen reports from right wing media but also from ABC.

ABC article below did not address the specific video that started this talk, see embedded video.

https://abc7chicago.com/post/aurora-...agua/15255872/

Video circulating on social media shows a group of men trying to break into an apartment unit on Sunday, August 18.

The footage, taken by the security camera of resident Edward Romero, shows several men carrying firearms in front of a door, with two of them appearing to force it open.

Romero told reporters the video was taken shortly before a shootout took place inside the apartment complex. Romero also said he has moved out since the incident occurred.

Instead of addressing the specific video, police are quoted below. I'm suspicious that the police did not address the specific video or Romero's statement about "force it (door) open". But then it could just be sloppy journalism.

Morris continued, "I'm not saying that there's not gang members that don't live in this community, but what we're learning out here is that gang members have not taken over this complex. We've really made an effort to the last few days to just really ask the specific questions or the direct questions in terms of the gang activity and who's actually making sure that people aren't paying rent to gang leaders or gang members, that that's not happening. And we've discovered here today and yesterday talking to, you know, so many residents said that's not the case we've been talking about, and they've been sincere with this. We really believe that they are sincere with this and we're standing out here, and I can tell you that gang members have not taken over this apartment complex."

I want to know more about the video. It didn't seem the "gang members" rushed into the apartment to assault anymore when the door opened. The video cuts off soon after and there should be more video somewhere.

Anyone have more complete info, let us know.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Israel is a country, not a religion.

One might think that was optics so people don't have to feel bad about being anti-Semitic. If it works for R's and D's against a group of people it can also work for the anti Israel crowd too.

[Swaggs]

If you want Harris to win, this is one of the best signs that I have seen to date: Harris campaign, DNC, announce unprecedented down-ballot spending

[cuervo72]

God's plan?

Doctors grapple with how to save women's lives amid 'confusion and angst' over new Louisiana law • Louisiana Illuminator

"A lifesaving drug used to stop postpartum hemorrhaging will be pulled off emergency response carts once it becomes a ‘controlled dangerous substance.’"

[miami_fan]

Is that the whole video that has been released or is there more video that is public?

If not, then there are a lot of leaps being made.

What is it about the video indicates that these men are linked to Tren de Aragua as opposed to some other gang? Not saying it is better if it was another gang but the fact that Tren De Aragua is the trendy gang name of the moment seems relevant.

Anyways, here is article about the apartments the Mayor now says are overrun by the gangs that came out before this video.

Access to this page has been denied

It even has a statement from Mayor Coffman after the city shut down one of the buildings.

The property is run by CBZ Management, which has tried to pin the problems on crime and claims Venezuelan gang activity is to blame — but the mayor said that argument is specious

“It’s a little late to play the Venezuelan gang card. Certainly, there are other parts of the city that we’re looking at, that we’re concerned about that. But the problems in this building certainly precede any problems with Venezuelan gangs,” Coffman said.

“The problems even preceded the migrant crisis,” Coffman said.

Why did the mayor decided to play his Venezuelan gang card now?

[cartman]

Trump is now saying the whole Arlington National Cemetery incident is something made up by Kamala.

[albionmoonlight]

They really seem to think that the cemetery thing is helping them. They will not let the story die.

Maybe they know something that I don't.

[GrantDawg]

They often do. It really does seem the more shitty the behavior the more he gains support. "Owning libs," like the ones that serve the country and gave their lives for it.

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[thesloppy]

It's gotta suck when you're naturally this awkward, and the entire world is suddenly on notice that you're a nutjob, and then every tiny thing you do is scrutinized for strangeness.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

They often do. It really does seem the more shitty the behavior the more he gains support. "Owning libs," like the ones that serve the country and gave their lives for it.

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I heard an interview with Smerconish with one of the family members and she was just as disgusting as Trump. Admitted they invited him, claim they invited Biden also. Said they never saw any altercation and that they brought their own photographer. When pressed about Trump putting out a campaign ad using the footage on Tik Tok her respone was "I don't use tik tok"

[Lathum]

I am listening to clips of Trumps interview with Hannity and he says the way Kamala treated Mike Pence was horrible....umm...

[Edward64]

Politics aside, I like how good the AI images look.

Just a moment...

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Sweed

One might think that was optics so people don't have to feel bad about being anti-Semitic. If it works for R's and D's against a group of people it can also work for the anti Israel crowd too.

Insinuating all Jewish people support genocide is like insinuating all Muslims are terrorists.

Most of the country doesn't support the genocide, including a large contingent of Jewish people. It's really just supported by a portion of the right and Blue MAGA.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Insinuating all Jewish people support genocide is like insinuating all Muslims are terrorists.

Most of the country doesn't support the genocide, including a large contingent of Jewish people. It's really just supported by a portion of the right and Blue MAGA.

Kind of like insinuating the Dems as a party are racist?

[Mota]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Insinuating all Jewish people support genocide is like insinuating all Muslims are terrorists.

Most of the country doesn't support the genocide, including a large contingent of Jewish people. It's really just supported by a portion of the right and Blue MAGA.

Yet all over the world we see people targeting Jewish people just because of their race. I was at a restaurant in Toronto in October and a group of pro-Palestinians were screaming at the restaurant and the customers inside because it was Jewish-owned.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Mota

Yet all over the world we see people targeting Jewish people just because of their race. I was at a restaurant in Toronto in October and a group of pro-Palestinians were screaming at the restaurant and the customers inside because it was Jewish-owned.

RainMaker seems very one sided on the issue. The war is awful and I in no way support the Israel government and what they are doing. But the lack of empathy towards hate and crimes against Jewish people is also terrible. Both sides want to rid the earth of one another. And yes theres still a ton of anti semitism in the U.S. Ive not been the target of anything as I am not practicing, nor do I look Jewish but ive been in occasional social situation which turned out the group was clearly anti semite.

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

It's gotta suck when you're naturally this awkward, and the entire world is suddenly on notice that you're a nutjob, and then every tiny thing you do is scrutinized for strangeness.