Game of Thrones on HBO

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Arles

I think the only real logical conclusion for this Arya/Sansa/Littlefinger plot spaghetti is for it to end with Arya and/or Sansa killing him. Maybe Sansa figures out he setup Arya to find the letter, maybe Arya was planning on killing Littlefinger the whole time and was just tweaking/testing Sansa or maybe Littlefinger gets overconfident by how he has apparently played both sisters like a fiddle and steps on his own dick. All that said, I think there are many better methods to handle this conflict.

And why wouldn't Littlefinger figure out a way to kill Arya? I realize the show has become somewhat predictable, but I still feel that this series still has that "anyone can die" mentality somewhere.

[bhlloy]

See, I think the point is that since the source material ended his show is for the most part predictable and Sansa finding the faces is a natural foreshadowing of the plan for Arya to imitate Littlefinger. I'd love to be proved wrong and for them to pull the curveball out of nowhere but based on this season so far I don't see it.

I think the big "shock" death will be Dany and dragon #2 but still, they've done enough foreshadowing on that, it's not going to be another red wedding.

[ISiddiqui]

Granted the showrunners are telegraphing everything, but GRRM likely told them who was going to survive and who was going to die... and I can't imagine all the Stark children except Robb and Rickon are going to survive.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

And why wouldn't Littlefinger figure out a way to kill Arya? I realize the show has become somewhat predictable, but I still feel that this series still has that "anyone can die" mentality somewhere.

How would he do that? With Brianne gone, is there anyone in Winterfell who could kill Arya? I feel like she could rule the roost there fairly easily. Littlefinger has always come off as a "chess player who's hands never get dirty" guy. I don't know the pieces hanging around in the city that he could convince to kill her (and have a chance at doing so).

The only logical conclusion is that Arya or Sansa kills him directly.

[ISiddiqui]

And that would be dull as shit and only would confirm that the show has basically become fan service and the unpredictability simply doesn't exist anymore.

I don't want a series were the folks that end up surviving at the end are the 'good guys', even if some other good guys end up dying. I want to see one where at least one or two 'bad guys' end up making it through in some respect or another. If not Cersei, then Littlefinger will do.

I mean hell, "logically" speaking, the Knights of the Vale should have strung up Littlefinger a long time ago.

[Arles]

But if you are writing a plot-line where Littlefinger ends up killing or removing Arya - how would that practically happen? With Brianne gone, I just don't see the implementation of death that Littlefinger would employ.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Arles

But if you are writing a plot-line where Littlefinger ends up killing or removing Arya - how would that practically happen? With Brianne gone, I just don't see the implementation of death that Littlefinger would employ.

Littlefinger could continue isolating her from Sansa until Sansa basically makes it happen through the Knights of the Vale & Winterfell.

It'd actually be more satisfying that way because Brienne will come back and be distraught over what Sansa did. Wonder if it may be enough to cause Brienne to break with Sansa and go north to fight the dead (maybe side by side with Tormund, even).

[Arles]

You don't think Arya would sniff that out pretty quick and take out Sansa/Vale herself first? The only thing that would make sense would have been for Brianne to be convinced that Arya was going after Sansa and the two of them do a Mountain-Martel styke duel. Having Sansa/Littlefinger "out-assassin" Arya seems like a major reach.

[Chief Rum]

It's a meta reason, sure, but IMO, no way do they send out Arya via some silly spat with Sansa and with only Walder Frey as a semi-major kill. She has had her own storyline, mostly separate from others, for years now. Whatever happens, I don't see Arya dying yet until she kills more important people from her list.

I personally believe she has a role in the end game of the whole thing.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Arles

You don't think Arya would sniff that out pretty quick and take out Sansa/Vale herself first? The only thing that would make sense would have been for Brianne to be convinced that Arya was going after Sansa and the two of them do a Mountain-Martel styke duel. Having Sansa/Littlefinger "out-assassin" Arya seems like a major reach.

It would also follow the original stated motto of the series/show which was up ending fantasy cliches. Hell, Arya 'out-assassined' the Waif. I think it'd be quite fun if she was 'out-assasined' by Littlefinger just as everyone was thinking no one would be able to get the drop on Arya.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It's a meta reason, sure, but IMO, no way do they send out Arya via some silly spat with Sansa and with only Walder Frey as a semi-major kill. She has had her own storyline, mostly separate from others, for years now. Whatever happens, I don't see Arya dying yet until she kills more important people from her list.

But didn't Robb have his own storyline cut short?

[bhlloy]

When they were following a very well thought out book written by someone who eschews standard TV cliches, sure

[ISiddiqui]

I realize he only gave them kind of an outline at how it was going to end... but I'd imagine that outline would have who dies and who lives, right? And hopefully how they die and live?

But, you are right that if it is up to the showrunners to decide when and who... we're fucked in terms of wanting unpredictability.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

But didn't Robb have his own storyline cut short?

Well, some things there.

1. As you said, it was relatively short. The Arya perspective has been ongoing since Book 1.

2. Robb was in and around other novel characters and amidst the interplay of the first three books, affecting things, etc. Arya was more or less unconnected to anyone important, brief time with Tywin and the Hound aside.

3. Robb led to the Red Wedding, a massively brutal assassination of several major players on the North side and a pretty much fatal blow to any hoping to challenge Lannister rule at the time. The event affected pretty much everyone in the book, except maybe the Danearys storyline. I would say as a plot point, Robb's assassination was a suitably ginormous ending for a major character.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Well, some things there.

1. As you said, it was relatively short. The Arya perspective has been ongoing since Book 1.

2. Robb was in and around other novel characters and amidst the interplay of the first three books, affecting things, etc. Arya was more or less unconnected to anyone important, brief time with Tywin and the Hound aside.

3. Robb led to the Red Wedding, a massively brutal assassination of several major players on the North side and a pretty much fatal blow to any hoping to challenge Lannister rule at the time. The event affected pretty much everyone in the book, except maybe the Danearys storyline. I would say as a plot point, Robb's assassination was a suitably ginormous ending for a major character.

Arya was only really unconnected Seasons 5 & 6 seasons. Prior to that her story wound quite tightly around others, including those who have come back into the main storyline such as Gendry, the Hound and Beric Dondarrion.

And while Robb's storyline affected everyone else, it got shut down in a very unexpected manner. No one (readers or watchers) thought Robb was going to die then and there, right in the middle of his story. It seems like it'd be less shocking to kill Arya, where her relatively 'unconnected' storyline won't impact others all that much.

Besides, her list has been whittled down quite a bit. What's left is Cersei, the Mountain (though he's kind of dead already technically), the Red Woman, Beric, and Ilyn Payne (though we haven't seen him in a while). I'd imagine most of this shortened list will be taken care of by others.

Now, granted, I DON'T THINK IT WILL HAPPEN. However, I do think it'd be far more narratively interesting if Arya gets killed rather than Littlefinger (which, unfortunately will likely be the 'major death' of the season - esp if Sansa actually decides to, you know, talk to Bran again next week).

[Atocep]

This season has killed the sense of anyone can die at any time for me. Plot armor has become painfully obvious for certain characters and rather than major deaths we're seeing low hanging fruit used to try to keep people sold on any dying.

They really seem to be setting up littlefinger dying next episode and Daenyres sometime next season.

I hope the books end better than the road the show appears to be headed down. I fear GRRM has painted himself into a corner with certain characters that he can't kill off though.

[Arles]

There are two problems with the Robb-Arya comparison:

1. We didn't spend three seasons learning about how Robb ascended to be a ruler, trained/was groomed to be an elite king and then have him randomly sniped off by an inferior king in battle (how Arya would be viewed if Littlefinger killed her).

2. Robb made 2-3 incredibly stupid decisions that had clear repercussions. He went against a betrothal for an alliance and choose a random girl without a clear alliance. He didn't bring his dire wolf into the wedding with him and he openly disrespected the host. At some point, it was clear Robb would need to pay the piper for these decisions. Arya hasn't really done this with Littlefinger. If anything, she should be on full alert with him given what she's seen him do with Tywin and Cersei.

I don't think it makes sense for the show to put as much sweat into the Arya storyline for seasons and just end up with Littlefinger knifing her in the back to her death. We never really had the same "show investment" in Robb or even Ned Stark that we have in Arya over these 7 seasons.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Arles

I don't think it makes sense for the show to put as much sweat into the Arya storyline for seasons and just end up with Littlefinger knifing her in the back to her death.

Agreed completely.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Arles

1. We didn't spend three seasons learning about how Robb ascended to be a ruler, trained/was groomed to be an elite king and then have him randomly sniped off by an inferior king in battle (how Arya would be viewed if Littlefinger killed her).

Eh? That's kind of exactly what happened with Robb. We spent a bit with Robb, seeing what a good military general and leader he was. That doesn't mean he made any mistakes, but it was thought they could be smoothed over to a certain point, but was killed by an inferior Lord, after taking the bread and the salt.

We never really had the same "show investment" in Robb or even Ned Stark that we have in Arya over these 7 seasons.

I think you misremeber how much was invested in Robb at the point of the Red Wedding. He was seen as the Westeros 'hero' of the tale by that point. There was a reason that there was such an extreme reaction when he was killed (and why so many book readers filmed non-book readers to post their reactions on FB).

The Robb death was great because it was so shocking and out of left field. No one saw it coming. People thought Robb would have to grovel or give up something major, but not that. An Arya death (or Sansa or Daenerys or even the Hound to an extent) right now would shake up things in that manner. I don't think it's saying too much to say that Robb's death made the series
what it is. Littlefinger dying by Stark hands, on the other hand, would just continue to make this the most predictable season we've ever had. And that'd be a shame.

I don't want to be able to predict everything that is going to happen, which is what I want Littlefinger to survive and even win a little bit, cause I wouldn't see it coming.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by nilodor

It's ok to be a bit disappointed with GRRM a little right? The further the show gets away from the source material the more like a normal action show it becomes.

That being said last season was the top for me (I guess they were working off an unfinished book?). I'm also glad we are hopefully past the whole rapey bits that were too often in the early seasons.

Yeah, now we can only hope for some good old fashioned incest between aunt and nephew!

[Arles]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Eh? That's kind of exactly what happened with Robb. We spent a bit with Robb, seeing what a good military general and leader he was. That doesn't mean he made any mistakes, but it was thought they could be smoothed over to a certain point, but was killed by an inferior Lord, after taking the bread and the salt.

Robb was in 21 total episodes (10 after Ned died) - hardly a major investment. As a comparison, Arya has been in over 50 episodes. The investment in her by the show is significantly more than Robb or Ned.

I think you misremeber how much was invested in Robb at the point of the Red Wedding. He was seen as the Westeros 'hero' of the tale by that point. There was a reason that there was such an extreme reaction when he was killed (and why so many book readers filmed non-book readers to post their reactions on FB).

I can understand why there was more of an investment by book readers, but Robb was King for less than two seasons of the show. Combine that with his open defiance of the arranged marriage and it atleast makes sense after the fact. Arya being snuffed out by Littlefinger makes very little sense - plus Littlefinger wouldn't have the ability in Winterfell to set something up like the Frays did at their castle.

The Robb death was great because it was so shocking and out of left field. No one saw it coming. People thought Robb would have to grovel or give up something major, but not that. An Arya death (or Sansa or Daenerys or even the Hound to an extent) right now would shake up things in that manner. I don't think it's saying too much to say that Robb's death made the series what it is. Littlefinger dying by Stark hands, on the other hand, would just continue to make this the most predictable season we've ever had. And that'd be a shame.

I don't mind Arya dying - I just don't think it works at the hands of Littlefinger. Littlefinger is on about his ninth life and has played everyone from the Lannisters, to the Starks, to the Frays, to the GreyJoys, to the Boltons, etc. And, he's still kicking. Having him get his comeuppance at this point "wouldn't be a shame" - it's well earned given how he's dodged judgement on all his schemes. It would even make some sense to be at the hands of Arya (who is an assassin trained to smell out these schemes) or Sansa (who he's put in some awful situations to this point).

I've always felt like Arya dying at the hands of Jaqen or another faceless man for making this too much of a vengeance/personal quest and not following the original teachings of the House of Black and White would be fitting.

I don't want to be able to predict everything that is going to happen, which is what I want Littlefinger to survive and even win a little bit, cause I wouldn't see it coming.

Littlefinger may very well survive, he's done pretty well so far. in fact, most of the "bad guys" have survived to this point (outside of the Frays and Boltons, but they were more pawns of the Lannisters). The main reason so many people have survived this season is we don't have a ton of important people left. Jon, Tyrion, Dany, Sansa, Arya or Davos dying would cut down on the drama for this final episode and next season. Same with Cercei, Jaime, Littlefinger or Qybern/FrankenMountain. We just don't have a ton of people left that we've made investments in. I expect you will see someone like the Hound, Mountain, Theon, Bronn, Tormund, Jorah or Grey Worm die next episode. But, I doubt it will be anyone needed to add drama for the final season (Cercei, Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Sansa or even Littlefinger).

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Eh? That's kind of exactly what happened with Robb. We spent a bit with Robb, seeing what a good military general and leader he was. That doesn't mean he made any mistakes, but it was thought they could be smoothed over to a certain point, but was killed by an inferior Lord, after taking the bread and the salt.



I think you misremeber how much was invested in Robb at the point of the Red Wedding. He was seen as the Westeros 'hero' of the tale by that point. There was a reason that there was such an extreme reaction when he was killed (and why so many book readers filmed non-book readers to post their reactions on FB).

The Robb death was great because it was so shocking and out of left field. No one saw it coming. People thought Robb would have to grovel or give up something major, but not that. An Arya death (or Sansa or Daenerys or even the Hound to an extent) right now would shake up things in that manner. I don't think it's saying too much to say that Robb's death made the series
what it is. Littlefinger dying by Stark hands, on the other hand, would just continue to make this the most predictable season we've ever had. And that'd be a shame.

I don't want to be able to predict everything that is going to happen, which is what I want Littlefinger to survive and even win a little bit, cause I wouldn't see it coming.

Sorry, I just don't see it that way. It actually wouldn't be a shock if Arya died, story-wise. She is clearly a danger to both Sansa and Littlefinger, the two primary power players. If she was a small time character, she would be dead.

But Arles put it best. They have put too much sweat into her character, her skills, her story to have her leave the show that way. I don't believe GRRM intended that. And I don't think the showrunners would switch to that. It would be a monumental waste, to spend so much time on someone for so little consequence.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It would be a monumental waste, to spend so much time on someone for so little consequence.

Maybe, but it seems either way a show like this goes, there's a downside. If someone has a big story but then dies, it's a waste, but if they live, it's lazy "plot armor."

That's the perils of surprise in scripted drama. Sometimes what makes the most sense is boring and predictable, and what is the most surprising and exciting screws up the story and throws away wasted screen time.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Arles

I don't mind Arya dying - I just don't think it works at the hands of Littlefinger. Littlefinger is on about his ninth life and has played everyone from the Lannisters, to the Starks, to the Frays, to the GreyJoys, to the Boltons, etc. And, he's still kicking. Having him get his comeuppance at this point "wouldn't be a shame" - it's well earned given how he's dodged judgement on all his schemes. It would even make some sense to be at the hands of Arya (who is an assassin trained to smell out these schemes) or Sansa (who he's put in some awful situations to this point).

I've always felt like Arya dying at the hands of Jaqen or another faceless man for making this too much of a vengeance/personal quest and not following the original teachings of the House of Black and White would be fitting.

Ok, that's fair enough. Petyr's comeuppance would be a shame because it'd be utterly predictable, not because he hasn't earned it.

Littlefinger may very well survive, he's done pretty well so far. in fact, most of the "bad guys" have survived to this point (outside of the Frays and Boltons, but they were more pawns of the Lannisters).

Well, I'm not entirely sure I'd say that... Joffrey, Tywin, the Boltons, the Freys, Randall Tarly, Alliser Thorne, Xaro Xhoan Daxos, the Warlock in the House of the Undying, (some would put Stannis here), etc. The only 'bad guys' who are still living are Littlefinger, Cersei, and Euron (and he's fairly new)... well and the Night King, but he could be a stealth good guy .

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by molson

Maybe, but it seems either way a show like this goes, there's a downside. If someone has a big story but then dies, it's a waste, but if they live, it's lazy "plot armor."

That's the perils of surprise in scripted drama. Sometimes what makes the most sense is boring and predictable, and what is the most surprising and exciting screws up the story and throws away wasted screen time.

Lazy plot armor is continually putting the same characters in impossible to survive situations and letting them survive. That was one of Martin's problems with traditional fantasy writing and something he wanted to overcome. It's definitely the road the show appears to be headed down.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by molson

Maybe, but it seems either way a show like this goes, there's a downside. If someone has a big story but then dies, it's a waste, but if they live, it's lazy "plot armor."

That's the perils of surprise in scripted drama. Sometimes what makes the most sense is boring and predictable, and what is the most surprising and exciting screws up the story and throws away wasted screen time.

Interestingly enough this was one of the complaints some readers had about a new character introduced in the 5th book, Dance with Dragons. They felt it was wasted because he was introduced had a number of POV chapters and ended up dying before the book was concluded.

Also I was looking at Ned Stark's centrality in the first season, but as part of that I looked at POV chapters - Ned had 15 POV chapters in Game of Thrones, by far the most, and 20% of the entire book. His death is what really hooked me into the series - this guy they spent so much time building up is someone they just up and kill (I was sure they'd have him 'take the black' and then he'd find a way to deal with the Lannisters while up at the Wall and then Joffrey happened).

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Bran could solve so many of these problems, but apparently he and everyone else has forgotten he can see everything.

Who do you think alerted Benjen of the need to save Jon?

[whomario]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Who do you think alerted Benjen of the need to save Jon?

the writers ?

[JPhillips]

The difference between Ned and Quentyn is that Ned is still important through his actions and his children. Quentyn has no connection to anything outside of the book he is a part of.

[Groundhog]

We will probably never know, but I always had trouble picturing how GRRM was going to merge Arya back into the main plot. She was by far the most disconnected POV character for me, and I like to think that whole adventure with the faceless man was for more than just getting revenge on the Freys or helping Sansa turn heel.

[whomario]

might wanna spoiler that @jphillips ...

[booradley]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Interestingly enough this was one of the complaints some readers had about a new character introduced in the 5th book, Dance with Dragons. They felt it was wasted because he was introduced had a number of POV chapters and ended up dying before the book was concluded.

Also I was looking at Ned Stark's centrality in the first season, but as part of that I looked at POV chapters - Ned had 15 POV chapters in Game of Thrones, by far the most, and 20% of the entire book. His death is what really hooked me into the series - this guy they spent so much time building up is someone they just up and kill (I was sure they'd have him 'take the black' and then he'd find a way to deal with the Lannisters while up at the Wall and then Joffrey happened).

As to the 5th Book character, it's very premature to say his POVs were "wasted" (I know you're not necessarily arguing this). That character bore a major mission for a major power, and his tale will likely bear major ramifications in what is to follow, based on Martin's history so far. Assuming he ever finishes this series. Sigh ...

[law90026]

For the Quentin POVs in the book, my take is that it felt like more bloating of an already bloated series. As some have pointed out, there are so many loose threads in the books that it's hard to see how GRRM could tie them all back together. This feels reinforced when he spends so much time on a particular POV and then just kills that off abruptly. If it's a tool for exposition, it felt cumbersome and unnecessary. If it was for shock effect, it definitely didn't have it.

I'm sure the show Writers are following a general guideline set by GRRM but they are being really heavy-handed about things. Maybe it's just fatigue after having had to run the show for so long.

[ISiddiqui]

My view is more in line with booradley. Q's story was a demonstration of Dorne's commitment to the Targaryen cause. The issue is that in the show that they so screwed the Done story, we don't know the ramifications as regards Dany's feelings toward the Dornish and the man who sent Q.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[thesloppy]

My theory about the writing falloff is that it's likely just the product of evolving into having multiple people writing/running the plot, rather than just one person. I can imagine ideas getting tossed around the writer's room, and anything with any bite to it is going to get some pushback from at least one person, and as a result they end up collectively writing a path-of-least-resistance plot which everybody has seen before.

[Groundhog]

I think it's more like "shit, we have 14 episodes left and 90 loose threads to tie up".

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I think it's more like "shit, we have 14 episodes left and 90 loose threads to tie up".

That can't help. Last year would've been a great time to quit as a GoT writer. "You guys have fun cleaning this shit up, I'm out!"

[Mota]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Eh? That's kind of exactly what happened with Robb. We spent a bit with Robb, seeing what a good military general and leader he was. That doesn't mean he made any mistakes, but it was thought they could be smoothed over to a certain point, but was killed by an inferior Lord, after taking the bread and the salt.

Yes, but book Robb never had his own chapters. He was never a main character.

I think what we saw in the first few books is the disruption of what we THOUGHT were the main characters, to leave more room for the actual main characters to emerge.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by molson

Maybe, but it seems either way a show like this goes, there's a downside. If someone has a big story but then dies, it's a waste, but if they live, it's lazy "plot armor."

That's the perils of surprise in scripted drama. Sometimes what makes the most sense is boring and predictable, and what is the most surprising and exciting screws up the story and throws away wasted screen time.

I would say that Robb dying was a great example. He essentially earned that moment by pissing off all his allies, although we watched it from the Stark side and cheered for him. As a Frey, you would have a totally different experience going through the same thing and being betrayed by him.

So it served as one of the most shocking moments ever, but playing into a storyline that they built up. By now in Season 7, it would be very difficult to kill a main cast member in random combat, and probably wouldn't be accepted by the fans.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Mota

Yes, but book Robb never had his own chapters. He was never a main character.

But Catelyn was. At the time of her death she had one of the highest POV chapter totals in the series. Of course, in the books there is another path for her...

I also do think that as the series wraps up some POV characters are going to have to start leaving the mortal coil, no? Because in addition to Tyrion, Jon, Dany, Arya, Sansa, and Bran, you have tons of POV chapters from Jamie and now Cersei (who had the most in Feast for Crows). Heck, Barristan Selmy has 2 sample POV chapters revealed from Winds of Winter.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Mota

I think what we saw in the first few books is the disruption of what we THOUGHT were the main characters, to leave more room for the actual main characters to emerge.

Thinking about this - what I truly enjoy in the books is that it truly is an epic tale, in that characters enter and leave. So by the Red Wedding and Purple Wedding, you may think you know the actual main characters, but then a bunch of people enter the story and I think the realization sets in that no one is really a "main character" as much as they are part of the story of Westeros in this time. And I know this is why some people really dislike AFFC and ADWD, but I think it is a bit brilliant. All of a sudden, Cersei is a main POV character and has 10 POV chapters in AFFC and 2 at the end of ADWD (when the storylines reconverge) and Arya drops down to 3 and 2 chapters respectively, Sansa has 3 in AFFC, Bran has 3 in ADWD, when they had much more beforehand. Brienne of Tarth goes from a secondary character in Jamie's story (who becomes a main POV character in ASOS) to a main POV in her own right in AFFC (and a lot of the book is her seeing the destruction that the War of the Five Kings has wrought on the people). One of the complaints by some readers of the last two books may be who they THOUGHT were the main characters weren't getting that much POV chapter time, and weren't really the main characters of those books at all.

In addition, I think we realize that the books are going to end up being vastly different than the show as when in the books, Stannis is at the Gates of Winterfell to receive Theon and a fake Arya jumping over the side of the castle, while Sansa is still learning statecraft from Littlefinger at the Vale and still referring to herself as Alayne in public (perhaps she reveals herself as Sansa when trying to rally the Lords of the Vale to save Jon who is about to try to ride to take down Ramsey himself (after he gets himself resurrected, of course).

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I think it's more like "shit, we have 14 episodes left and 90 loose threads to tie up".

Sounds like "Lost"

[Groundhog]

I lol'ed.

Thank you @barstoolsports pic.twitter.com/Md3RJrNk86

— Aokiji (@DukeOfZamunda) August 24, 2017

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I lol'ed.

Thank you @barstoolsports pic.twitter.com/Md3RJrNk86

— Aokiji (@DukeOfZamunda) August 24, 2017

Well done! As I said in prior posts, you have to give this show some fantasy leeway to fully enjoy it. Nit-picking the mechanics of travel and communications is a miserable way to watch the show.

[Coffee Warlord]

Yep, I've read the spoiler synopsis for the final episode.

Spoiler - No Clegane Bowl. Thank fucking god. The writers haven't dropped that low.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Arles

Nit-picking the mechanics of travel and communications is a miserable way to watch the show.

Well, from the nit-pickers perspective, I find it interesting how often the non-critical folks feel compelled to insist that the critical folks aren't having as much fun watching the show. Who says watching a show as passively as possible is the best reflection of one's capacity for joy?

[spleen1015]

Arya is totaling playing Littlefinger into a trap here. What's wrong with you guys?

Doesn't a person have to be dead in order for Arya to take their face? If so, Arya being Sansa when she sent Captain Phasma away doesn't work.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Well, from the nit-pickers perspective, I find it interesting how often the non-critical folks feel compelled to insist that the critical folks aren't having as much fun watching the show. Who says watching a show as passively as possible is the best reflection of one's capacity for joy?

Indeed. Turning my brain off to watch a show may work for some people. But, if that's the requirement for it, I'm only going to watch a few episodes of that show before I decide it's not interesting enough for me.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Well, from the nit-pickers perspective, I find it interesting how often the non-critical folks feel compelled to insist that the critical folks aren't having as much fun watching the show. Who says watching a show as passively as possible is the best reflection of one's capacity for joy?

Yeah, I just don't get why it's hard to understand that someone can still enjoy something yet be critical of its flaws. Nothing's perfect.

[sabotai]

As for Arya...

I fully expect Arya Stark of Winterfell to die. Not literally. Her story has always been about her identity. Her father dying was her "inciting event" (for her series-long plot). It's when she first gets a different identity, and it's when she is first sent out "into the wild". After her brother and mother are killed, and she is no longer held captive by the Hound, she had a choice. She could have gone to the Wall to reunite with Jon. Or she even could have gone to Moat Cailin to be under the protection of Howland Reed. That's certainly what an abandoned child of Eddard Stark with no home to go to would have done.

Instead, she chooses to go to Braavos. This was the first time she decided to take a new identity. And then all of the stuff with the Faceless Men happen.

Her "I'm Arya Stark of Winterfell, and I'm going home." was the 'Arya Stark' identity asserting itself. But back on Westeros, she once again threw 'Arya' to the side to get her revenge on the Freys and was on her way to King's Landing when she heard about Jon being king. She decides to be 'Arya Stark' again and head home. One last turn away from the inevitable. The scene with Nymeria was more than just fan service. It was a heavy dose of foreshadowing.

Arya Stark of Winterfell will die. She will not live happily ever after with her brothers and sister. She will not be a Lady of Winterfell. The questions that remain for her is why she will (figuratively) die, what events will cause it, and what identity, if any, Arya finally chooses in the end. I don't think Arya will literally die, but I don't think she has a happy ending either.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Arles

Well done! As I said in prior posts, you have to give this show some fantasy leeway to fully enjoy it. Nit-picking the mechanics of travel and communications is a miserable way to watch the show.

Seriously. I'm just one of those unfortunately ones who apparently has "no-brain" requirement of TV shows. All because I'm not consistently shocked that the show is headed in a direction of predictability and need to voice my frustration every single week. Oh to be that person who lives for the moment where their favorite show takes a turn for the dystopia just to be critical. (I'm trying to sound as smug as everyone else, but I'm afraid I've failed)