WW XCIII - Mine Wars - Battle of Blair Mountain - SYMPATHIZERS WIN!!! - Page 77

Barkeep49 · 05-12-2009, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

BK, something that Danny said struck me when he joked about Lathum possibly being the last wolf. For the wolf team to be getting these advantages, what are the odds that there really are more than two wolves?

Everything in this game, to some degree, has had a cause and effect. We won five villages which caused us to get so many soldiers. We had Mother Jones would caused us to get a bonus of so many soldiers. I assume, to some degree, the same is true for the wolves. However, I'm wondering if it is less tied to number of soldiers and more tied to number of events, meaning two things. They stopped us four times, they have four events. It also likely means that they have a lot less soldiers than I had been counting on.

At this point, I would say send 2500-3000 if you don't think they have another event and we'll face soldiers on the battlefield.

If you do think they have another event, send 6. I mean, eventually they'll run out and our numbers should crush them. I would assume that, no later than phase 3 today, we will actually see their soldiers on the battlefield.

Also, talking numbers. This game probably started 9-2 which means we're likely to 6-2 now, still a decent cushion. I just don't want to keep watching us slip (unless its the smart play, like phase 2 yesterday).

So my realization is that the only thing we have on ourside is our workers. We don't want to run out of workers, but we can't afford to keep losing rounds and so I think we should send out even more than the 2500 we sent yesterday. Maybe after a victory we can start to reassess but I really feel like we need to use the resources at hand and that just happens to be the workers.

PurdueBrad · 05-12-2009, 11:10 AM

I think they hit deadline. Let me expand on what I posted earlier, even though BK isn't here.

WW is very much a game about balance, and I think that is something that Abe strives for very hard in his games. Those first two actions by the wolves, if they have either similar or superior number of soldiers OR a decent number of wolves, would make this endgame imbalanced and I don't believe Abe would let that happen. That leads me to believe that the wolves need wins to even stay in this thing. Looking at some of the research (which RendeR said he did as well), I wouldn't be surprised that the wolves may have two more tricks up their sleeve (from what I read, possible use of machine guns and a second bombing run). This would fall in line with some of the descriptions.

The miners went in with 13-15000 troops (we're close) against unknown numbers but, frankly, it doesn't look like it could've been more than 2000 private soldiers. So given that we're at the low end of that ballpark, let's assume the miners are right at 2000 soldiers.

I would like to see us test the waters a bit here, just to see if they have another card to play. I don't think a token force is necessarily what we want but I don't think we risk overwhelming them in case they have another block. What about 1500? If I were a wolf here, I would probably send 500 soldiers (IF they are sending soldiers) just to see the battle play out since they seem to have limited numbers BUT their soldiers are better than ours.

Danny · 05-12-2009, 11:10 AM

Yep BK, I was thinking the same and suggested 5k on the last page.

PurdueBrad · 05-12-2009, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

So my realization is that the only thing we have on ourside is our workers. We don't want to run out of workers, but we can't afford to keep losing rounds and so I think we should send out even more than the 2500 we sent yesterday. Maybe after a victory we can start to reassess but I really feel like we need to use the resources at hand and that just happens to be the workers.

Just read this, took me awhile to post mine. We can certainly go bigger, we have approx. 10000 workers left and we need two, possibly three wins? So what about sending 4000?

BK, read over what I wrote, I'm not arguing your logic because I trust you but see what you think of my read.

Barkeep49 · 05-12-2009, 11:13 AM

PB: If you feel like we're up against 2500 soldiers we should never send less than that amount, as we basically can afford to keep sending out that many against any reasonable amount of wolves.

Barkeep49 · 05-12-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

PB: If you feel like we're up against 2500 soldiers we should never send less than that amount, as we basically can afford to keep sending out that many against any reasonable amount of wolves.

By never sending less I mean more than the idea of sending out 6 or so. There is, at some point, still sense in doing that. Just not at this point I feel.

PurdueBrad · 05-12-2009, 11:15 AM

No, I mean 2000 TOTAL men is all they have. I support going above that but once they're out of soldiers, it's game over anyway, so they can't send them all. Going big sounds fine here, I'm probably erring on the side of caution which isn't likely the way to win.

PurdueBrad · 05-12-2009, 11:16 AM

Ahhh, I gotcha BK. Well then I think I would certainly support sending between 2500-4000 (somewhere between 25% and 40% of what we have left).

Danny · 05-12-2009, 11:17 AM

If we go 5k, that leaves us with 5k for the rest of the game, right?

PurdueBrad · 05-12-2009, 11:17 AM

Yeah Danny, that would leave us 5 k the rest of the way, but how much longer can there really be.

Danny · 05-12-2009, 11:18 AM

I still think big or small is a better strategy then going in the middle.

PurdueBrad · 05-12-2009, 11:18 AM

Danny may be on to something by sending half our forces to confront them. Worst case scenario is they send a token force and we lose 5k or they block and we lose 5 k but that still leaves us 5k to take on whatever they have left.

Danny · 05-12-2009, 11:19 AM

I don't really see much point in going 2-3k, I'm thinking the wolves will easily cover that for when they send in their troops as opposed to doing their insta win.

PurdueBrad · 05-12-2009, 11:19 AM

By block, I mean they use one of their actions that we've seen.

Danny · 05-12-2009, 11:20 AM

The other alternative, is to send a few hundred. At this point we're still 5-3 worst case and can afford another loss.

Barkeep49 · 05-12-2009, 11:21 AM

While I agree we can't have too much longer to go, depeleting our stores by half right now seems excessive.

PurdueBrad · 05-12-2009, 11:21 AM

I like going high I think, like I said, we dwindle our numbers but as BK pointed out, we're sort of wealthy with manpower.

By sending a few hundred, we either take a loss to soldiers and they've wasted their's, they block and we only lose a few, or they sent a token few and we steal a victory.

Barkeep49 · 05-12-2009, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

I don't really see much point in going 2-3k, I'm thinking the wolves will easily cover that for when they send in their troops as opposed to doing their insta win.

This is the key point. With their 2 (or more) insta-wins just how many soldiers do we think they have? I have to lean towards PB at this point and feel if they have instawins they can't be overflowing with soldiers.

Danny · 05-12-2009, 11:24 AM

How about we go relatively small here again and make the wolves do something?

PurdueBrad · 05-12-2009, 11:24 AM

The way it read the two places I checked, the companies relied on small private armies and some supplemental help from the U.S. Govt. Everything else they did was basically technology based, like bombs, gas, the armored trains/cars, and machine guns. Their numbers weren't how they really won.

PurdueBrad · 05-12-2009, 11:25 AM

Guys, I'm out, sorry, late for my duty. I'll be on in 45 minutes.

Danny · 05-12-2009, 11:25 AM

Ok, so should we go with 2.5 k then?

Barkeep49 · 05-12-2009, 11:28 AM

I'm inclined to do 3k or so. That's been my inclination all along.

Danny · 05-12-2009, 11:29 AM

3k is good with me

Barkeep49 · 05-12-2009, 11:36 AM

Commit 3003 Workers

Danny · 05-12-2009, 11:49 AM

I'm off for a few hours until our next action.

Glengoyne · 05-12-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

While I agree we can't have too much longer to go, depeleting our stores by half right now seems excessive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Commit 3003 Workers

Hmm. I think we could get by with less, but I'm not going to miss the debate, show up, and critique.

So this leaves us with ~7k? That still gives us some flexibility. I do agree with the assessment that there are likely only relatively few miners.

So I see two mechanics available.

Miners send in wave attacks, that the sympathizers counter with their "specials"...gas, bombs, machine guns...etc. Eventually the sympathizers will run out of those "special" plays.

Or--

The miners only chance against the specials is to through a huge rush, smaller efforts simply bounce.

I dunno.

Barkeep49 · 05-12-2009, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

The miners only chance against the specials is to through a huge rush, smaller efforts simply bounce.

I dunno.

Believe me I have thought of that. And if that's the case we're going to lose. I just don't see myself making that kind of high risk/high reward play given the structure of this game.

PurdueBrad · 05-12-2009, 12:29 PM

Checking and caught up. I'm fine with that number. My thoughts are that if the wolves can beat 3k here and then 3500 or 4k the next time and THEN still beat our remaining 3500 or 3k then we never had a shot to begin with.

Lathum · 05-12-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Sweet. I think Lathum just conceded the game over in the group therapy game. Thanks bud!

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Seriously? Nice game guys!

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Since it's over, how the heck did the wolves only end up with 3 total in a 20 person game?

Lathum, were you the cunning?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

I think BK is joking, Lathum only asked when roles were going out. But that is interesting. Maybe we are close to winning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I was indeed just kidding.

jesus, I was just asking about that game since there really isn't anything going on here

Lathum · 05-12-2009, 12:39 PM

I think you guys should send 5K

or 6.

Lathum · 05-12-2009, 01:05 PM

is that deadline?

Danny · 05-12-2009, 01:05 PM

Lathum · 05-12-2009, 01:08 PM

Well then Abe needs to get out of GD and stop telling everyone he loves them and get his ass over here.

PurdueBrad · 05-12-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

Well then Abe needs to get out of GD and stop telling everyone he loves them and get his ass over here.

You're pretty anxious.

claphamsa · 05-12-2009, 01:18 PM

what the hell is GD?

Lathum · 05-12-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

what the hell is GD?

General Discussion Forum

Barkeep49 · 05-12-2009, 01:19 PM

GD = General Discussion
what is now
OT = Off Topic

claphamsa · 05-12-2009, 01:21 PM

oh ok. so say OT :P

EagleFan · 05-12-2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

waht teh hell is GD?

clap'icized it for ya...

Poli · 05-12-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

The WereWolf School of Higher Learning

1'st hour- Spelling and Grammar taught by Claphamsa

2'nd hour- Lathuming taught by special instructor Lathum

3'rd hour- Self-Control taught by Barkeep

4'th hour- Complex Mechanics by Abe

5'th hour- Lunch (Today's menu- Villagers with a side of roles)

6'th hour- Getting Out of Anything by Hoopsguy

7'th hour- Ways Hoopsguy has Screwed Me Over by PB

8'th hour- Homemade Ketchup Porn with Heinz

Feel free to post any other graduation requirements for the school.

Thinking Outside the Box -- How to Create Problems for GMs, Other Players, and Yourself -- Ardent Enthusiast

Abe Sargent · 05-12-2009, 01:40 PM

I will process momentarily

Abe Sargent · 05-12-2009, 01:44 PM

You decide to commit to another skirmish when scouts report what you believe is an opening. 3003 of your miners move out!

The Sympathizers have sent troops this time as well, and 2250 of their forces smash into yours.

The battle is vicious and close, but i the end, they manage to win the victoire.

The Sympathizers have won Stage Four. Danny has been killed in the skirmish.

Danny · 05-12-2009, 01:46 PM

Grrr, 5k would have done it too.

Danny · 05-12-2009, 01:46 PM

Good luck guys.

claphamsa · 05-12-2009, 01:46 PM

wait... so we sent less people than us... and still won?

claphamsa · 05-12-2009, 01:46 PM

I say we send one and see= what happens... its not like there is any logic behind any of this.

Lathum · 05-12-2009, 01:47 PM

claphamsa · 05-12-2009, 01:50 PM

I cant see that pic, but I suggest we stuff lathum full of viagra and send him out to do battle.

PurdueBrad · 05-12-2009, 01:55 PM

BK, what do you make of this. This is NOT how I assumed things would go. First, they sent 2250 troops (which I'm still assuming is most of their load) AND they sent less than us and they still beat us. So with the two automatic victories and now a decent advantage in quality of troops, what do we have to do here?

05-12-2009, 01:18 PM	#3836
claphamsa Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: non white trash MD	what the hell is GD? __________________ Dominating Warewolf for 0 games! GIT R DUN!!!

05-12-2009, 01:21 PM	#3839
claphamsa Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: non white trash MD	oh ok. so say OT :P __________________ Dominating Warewolf for 0 games! GIT R DUN!!!

05-12-2009, 01:40 PM	#3842
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	I will process momentarily __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

05-12-2009, 01:44 PM	#3843
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	You decide to commit to another skirmish when scouts report what you believe is an opening. 3003 of your miners move out! The Sympathizers have sent troops this time as well, and 2250 of their forces smash into yours. The battle is vicious and close, but i the end, they manage to win the victoire. The Sympathizers have won Stage Four. Danny has been killed in the skirmish. __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

05-12-2009, 01:46 PM	#3846
claphamsa Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: non white trash MD	wait... so we sent less people than us... and still won? __________________ Dominating Warewolf for 0 games! GIT R DUN!!!

05-12-2009, 11:10 AM	#3802
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	I think they hit deadline. Let me expand on what I posted earlier, even though BK isn't here. WW is very much a game about balance, and I think that is something that Abe strives for very hard in his games. Those first two actions by the wolves, if they have either similar or superior number of soldiers OR a decent number of wolves, would make this endgame imbalanced and I don't believe Abe would let that happen. That leads me to believe that the wolves need wins to even stay in this thing. Looking at some of the research (which RendeR said he did as well), I wouldn't be surprised that the wolves may have two more tricks up their sleeve (from what I read, possible use of machine guns and a second bombing run). This would fall in line with some of the descriptions. The miners went in with 13-15000 troops (we're close) against unknown numbers but, frankly, it doesn't look like it could've been more than 2000 private soldiers. So given that we're at the low end of that ballpark, let's assume the miners are right at 2000 soldiers. I would like to see us test the waters a bit here, just to see if they have another card to play. I don't think a token force is necessarily what we want but I don't think we risk overwhelming them in case they have another block. What about 1500? If I were a wolf here, I would probably send 500 soldiers (IF they are sending soldiers) just to see the battle play out since they seem to have limited numbers BUT their soldiers are better than ours.

05-12-2009, 11:10 AM	#3803
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Yep BK, I was thinking the same and suggested 5k on the last page.

05-12-2009, 11:13 AM	#3805
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	PB: If you feel like we're up against 2500 soldiers we should never send less than that amount, as we basically can afford to keep sending out that many against any reasonable amount of wolves.

05-12-2009, 11:15 AM	#3807
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	No, I mean 2000 TOTAL men is all they have. I support going above that but once they're out of soldiers, it's game over anyway, so they can't send them all. Going big sounds fine here, I'm probably erring on the side of caution which isn't likely the way to win.

05-12-2009, 11:16 AM	#3808
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	Ahhh, I gotcha BK. Well then I think I would certainly support sending between 2500-4000 (somewhere between 25% and 40% of what we have left).

05-12-2009, 11:17 AM	#3809
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	If we go 5k, that leaves us with 5k for the rest of the game, right?

05-12-2009, 11:17 AM	#3810
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	Yeah Danny, that would leave us 5 k the rest of the way, but how much longer can there really be.

05-12-2009, 11:18 AM	#3811
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	I still think big or small is a better strategy then going in the middle.

05-12-2009, 11:18 AM	#3812
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	Danny may be on to something by sending half our forces to confront them. Worst case scenario is they send a token force and we lose 5k or they block and we lose 5 k but that still leaves us 5k to take on whatever they have left.

05-12-2009, 11:19 AM	#3813
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	I don't really see much point in going 2-3k, I'm thinking the wolves will easily cover that for when they send in their troops as opposed to doing their insta win.

05-12-2009, 11:19 AM	#3814
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	By block, I mean they use one of their actions that we've seen.

05-12-2009, 11:20 AM	#3815
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	The other alternative, is to send a few hundred. At this point we're still 5-3 worst case and can afford another loss.

05-12-2009, 11:21 AM	#3816
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	While I agree we can't have too much longer to go, depeleting our stores by half right now seems excessive.

05-12-2009, 11:21 AM	#3817
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	I like going high I think, like I said, we dwindle our numbers but as BK pointed out, we're sort of wealthy with manpower. By sending a few hundred, we either take a loss to soldiers and they've wasted their's, they block and we only lose a few, or they sent a token few and we steal a victory.

05-12-2009, 11:24 AM	#3819
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	How about we go relatively small here again and make the wolves do something?

05-12-2009, 11:24 AM	#3820
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	The way it read the two places I checked, the companies relied on small private armies and some supplemental help from the U.S. Govt. Everything else they did was basically technology based, like bombs, gas, the armored trains/cars, and machine guns. Their numbers weren't how they really won.

05-12-2009, 11:25 AM	#3821
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	Guys, I'm out, sorry, late for my duty. I'll be on in 45 minutes.

05-12-2009, 11:25 AM	#3822
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Ok, so should we go with 2.5 k then?

05-12-2009, 11:28 AM	#3823
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	I'm inclined to do 3k or so. That's been my inclination all along.

05-12-2009, 11:29 AM	#3824
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	3k is good with me

05-12-2009, 11:36 AM	#3825
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Commit 3003 Workers

05-12-2009, 11:49 AM	#3826
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	I'm off for a few hours until our next action.

05-12-2009, 12:29 PM	#3829
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	Checking and caught up. I'm fine with that number. My thoughts are that if the wolves can beat 3k here and then 3500 or 4k the next time and THEN still beat our remaining 3500 or 3k then we never had a shot to begin with.

05-12-2009, 12:39 PM	#3831
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I think you guys should send 5K or 6.

05-12-2009, 01:05 PM	#3832
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	is that deadline?

05-12-2009, 01:05 PM	#3833
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Yeah

05-12-2009, 01:08 PM	#3834
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Well then Abe needs to get out of GD and stop telling everyone he loves them and get his ass over here.

05-12-2009, 01:19 PM	#3838
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	GD = General Discussion what is now OT = Off Topic

05-12-2009, 01:46 PM	#3844
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Grrr, 5k would have done it too.

05-12-2009, 01:46 PM	#3845
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Good luck guys.