WW CXXXIX - The Red Death II - GAME OVER, SERVANTS WIN

[MrBug708]

I would like to stress a threeway tie and let the flame decide

[J23]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

don't buy into this autumn, he is trying to cast doubt I won't switch to you because you go to the wolf. Even if J23 moved to you I'd stay on him.

It's a matter of logistics that I'm bringing up. I'm thinking there's a way to abuse the timing of the nightfalls as the wolf that I don't want to allow for. If you and I are both the villagers and Autumn was the wolf, he could just unvote and nightfall to have us both lynched potentially. It would be an epic ending, but seeing the villagers both get strung up on the final night isn't a situation I'd like to see happen.

[Autumn]

Yeah, nightfall in a small group is tricky because if you go first the others have the chance to switch around on you. I'm not too worried with only one wolf left, but better not to leave a chance for something unexpected.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by J23

It's a matter of logistics that I'm bringing up. I'm thinking there's a way to abuse the timing of the nightfalls as the wolf that I don't want to allow for. If you and I are both the villagers and Autumn was the wolf, he could just unvote and nightfall to have us both lynched potentially. It would be an epic ending, but seeing the villagers both get strung up on the final night isn't a situation I'd like to see happen.

From my understanding, based on abes dayfall I thought we would all have to vote and a pm sent. If not this game would have been over last night before I could have voted as you both were on me or now for that matter if the wolf just has to vote nightfall.

[Autumn]

Dayfall was something different Abe was doing.

Normally nightfall means every person alive has to vote nightfall in the thread. Once the very last person votes it, there's no going back. So the last person to vote would have a chance to switch their vote around and then nightfall before anyone can do anything about it.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by J23

I think this is where I'm going to stay barring something particularly damning coming up. I don't know how we could actually nightfall w/o giving a wolf the opportunity to change votes and nightfall, so we'll probably just have to wait it out.

I don't see Abe around anyway. But if at some point before 10 we'd just like to finish it, I'm willing to nightfall first. I can't imagine Commo can convince you to vote me, and vice versa, faster than I can unnightfall, which would be the only thing I would have to worry about. I can understand you not wanting to go first, J23, since there's a vote on you.

Otherwise I'll keep working on my next game, and keep an eye on the thread.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Dayfall was something different Abe was doing.

Normally nightfall means every person alive has to vote nightfall in the thread. Once the very last person votes it, there's no going back. So the last person to vote would have a chance to switch their vote around and then nightfall before anyone can do anything about it.

Dayfall was just my clever name for ending the night early, just like Nightfall is the name for ending the day early.

Night fall still exists, and as a reminder, here're the rules:

1). Everybody most post, in bold, "Vote Nightfall"
2). I must get a pm from the Servants agreeing to Nightfall.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I don't see Abe around anyway. But if at some point before 10 we'd just like to finish it, I'm willing to nightfall first. I can't imagine Commo can convince you to vote me, and vice versa, faster than I can unnightfall, which would be the only thing I would have to worry about. I can understand you not wanting to go first, J23, since there's a vote on you.

Otherwise I'll keep working on my next game, and keep an eye on the thread.

Darn this phone, 3rd time my response has been lost. Nightfall will not happen the time for it was yesterday. As for me convincing J23 I only hope he nks you if I survive the flame because you wouldn't be voting for me if I was not a new player, which is a bs vote IMHO.

[J23]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Darn this phone, 3rd time my response has been lost. Nightfall will not happen the time for it was yesterday. As for me convincing J23 I only hope he nks you if I survive the flame because you wouldn't be voting for me if I was not a new player, which is a bs vote IMHO.

I can't speak for Autumn, but I am not voting you simply because you're a new player. The new player bit probably bought you a bit more slack at times previously from me because as a "new player", I don't expect you to necessarily conform to a lot of the typical behavior I see happening from most players. This isn't a "he's new, so he must just be acting stupid" as you seem to take it, at least not from me.

[Autumn]

No, definitely not. There are players who could have done a lot of the things you did, Commo, and I would assume they're not wolves, because it would be too over the top for them as a wolf. There are other players, even experienced ones, who might have acted like you, even as a wolf. I think your experience may have something to do with it, I know I often got frantic my first few times as a wolf, and you may have misjudged what would get you in trouble and what wouldn't. But that's not to belittle you, it's just taking it into context.

[The Jackal]

*force deadline*

[The Jackal]

Inquiring minds want to know!

[J23]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Inquiring minds want to know!

I'm sure your little private forum has already hashed out who the remaining wolf is and how we've been a bunch of idiots the past X days!

(X being precisely the number of days the poster has been dead)

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by J23

I'm sure your little private forum has already hashed out who the remaining wolf is and how we've been a bunch of idiots the past X days!

(X being precisely the number of days the poster has been dead)

What private forum?!

[hoopsguy]

I haven't been on JAG's forum, so if there is conversation on this game there I haven't been part of it. But I definitely have thoughts and am eagerly awaiting the outcome.

[Zinto]

I am pretty sure Jags forum hasn't been used for discussion, as far as I know.

[J23]

Ah, that's right, it was JAG, not Jackal, my bad. Anyway, I'm not sure how much, if any, I'll be on before the deadline.

[Commo_Soldier]

Finally back from work. Time to quote more I guess, although I don't see the use as Autumn seems fairly certain I'm bad because I've been so vocal.

[Autumn]

I'm definitely willing to see what you find, Commo, but realistically, yeah, it would be hard to convince me at this point.

[The Jackal]

Where is JAG's forum?

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Where is JAG's forum?

This is the link http://jagww.forumotion.com/ but I would imagine there's not anything for this game, because of the possibility of the Life giver.

[Autumn]

You'll just have to wait, like the rest of us.

[Autumn]

I've got to get some food and the kids will be home soon, so not sure how much I'll be on, but I'll read what's posted, and give one last look back through things beore deadline.

[The Jackal]

Yeah can't really talk about this game, it's true.

[Commo_Soldier]

Day 3 posts. Interesting thoughts that I can still remember. EF comes out and asks why we think Zinto and J23 are bad. Interesting that wolf comes out and sticks up for a wolf and at this point a 50% possible wolf, but I'd assume 99% possible.

Originally Posted by Autumn

Seems to me that Jackal and J23 still deserve some possible votes as people who were right in the thick of things, but not lynched.

Also, that list I was going by yesterday, of people who voted elsewhere than NTN after Bhlloy's reveal, is growing shorter:

CF, Lathum, Mckerney, J23

CF's not getting a pass from me, but combine the two and I think I'm going after J23 for now.

vote J23

Originally Posted by J23

I don't understand why you think the group you've selected has a higher chance of being a wolf than those that left their votes on people not in the running, or those who left their vote NOT on ntn the first day. I mean, I understand you wanting to find a way to justify how you're voting, but the reasoning seems exceedingly weak to me.

Originally Posted by Autumn

Those who left their vote elsewhere are another good group to look at, sure. Though I think someone did and said they were all people who aren't around at night. But I agree, that's another place for a wolf to be.

There's what 20 people in the game now? Yes, I have to somehow come up with something to limit my voting pool or else I'd never be able to pick someone. If someone else's reasoning sounds better to me I'd gladly switch. But I think the point where there's a reveal and, and there's a wolf in the voting mix, is a *very* strong place to look for wolf moves, much more so than any other time during that day.

Originally Posted by J23

I think when there's a reveal, everyone is going to move off that candidate. The fact that a wolf was one of the other options to move to should make you examine those movements, but having a wolf in the mix doesn't make those moving off of the revealed player more likely to be a wolf since it's just dumb luck as far as who was on the revealed player already(I will concede that out of this group, those that moved onto ntn would look better however, unless they play like dubb where they try to actively kill their wolf friends). If you wanted to use your reasoning, I would think you'd look at players that moved from the non-revealed players to people other than Ntn after the reveal shook up the lynch voting.

Originally Posted by Autumn

I'm not saying people who moved off the reveal are wolves. I'm saying that if a wolf moves, after a reveal, they're going to try to encourage a different candidate other than a wolf. Since we know one of the options was a wolf, people who went elsewhere, especially if somebody goes to a candidate who seems a less good candidate than NTN, might be wolves.

I mean you can harp on my reasoning, but here's the votes, you can do your own analysis and tell me who you think makes a better candidate.

((bhlloy reveals))
bhlloy unvotes dubb 275
bhlloy votes mauboy 275
jackal unvotes bhlloy 281
jackal votes mauboy 283
ef unvotes danny 287
ef votes mauboy 287
jackal unvotes mauboy 296
jackal votes J23 296
danny votes ntn 297
CF unvotes mauboy 306
CF votes J23 306
Lahtum unvotes danny 310
lathum votes J23 310
commo unvotes bhlloy 318
mckerney unvotes bhlloy 329
mckerney votes mauboy 329
commo votes ntn 334
J23 unvotes bhlloy 352
J23 votes mauboy 354
bhlloy unvotes mauboy 357
bhlloy votes ntn 357
mauboy unvotes dubb 361
mauboy votes ntn 361
j23 unvotes mauboy 364
j23 votes ntn 364
dzilla unvotes ntn 377
dubb unvotes bhlloy 386
RA votes ntn 390
CF unvotes J23 393
CF votes ntn 393
dubb votes J23 400
autumn unvotes J23
autumn votes ntn

Originally Posted by Autumn

Well I'm not sure I'm going to vote for someone for not moving their vote, when they weren't here. Yes, of course they could be a wolf, but the fact that they didn't move their vote when not here isn't at all evidence of that. It's just taking a blind shot.

I'm not even sure that that's true about people who didn't move their votes. It's not something I've looked at.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Ugh, I really hate posting from phones, after losing a longer post this is going to be short. Looking forward to a for day weekend starting friday though. Long story short, after looking at voting history danny posted

vote zinto

Will not be on a computer until after deadline due to an NBDA meeting, but will be checking phone.

Originally Posted by J23

Vote MrBug

I'm ok with either him and Zinto for tonight.

Originally Posted by Autumn

CF votes Mrbug 1209
Thomkal votes mauboy 1239
EF votes thomkal 1241
jackal votes mrbug 1244
thomkal unvotes mauboy 1255
autumn votes J23 1264
sndvls votes EF 1266
narc votes EF 1271
danny votes zinto 1305
commo votes zinto 1322
sndvls unvotes EF 1325
hoops votes zinto 1345
J23 votes mrbug 1347


MrBug - CF, Jackal, J23
Mauboy -
Thomkal - EF
J23 - Autumn
EF - Narcizo
zinto - danny, commo, hoops

Originally Posted by J23

I was passed a Tincture of Camphor night one, which I had the option of opening during the night window. Having no idea what it did, I decided against it and passed it along. Any idea what that item might be?

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

MrBug 3 - Jackal (1244) J23 (1347) Thomkal (1383)
Thomkal 3 - EagleFan (1241) Danny (1305) CrimsonFox (1389)
J23 1 - Autumn (1264)
EagleFan 2 - Narcizo (1271) Zinto (1372)
Zinto 5 - Commo_Soldier (1322) hoopsguy (1345) SnDvls (1351) dubb (1375) Grammaticus (1380)

Originally Posted by The Jackal

unvote mrbug
vote thomkal

Originally Posted by J23

unvote Mrbug
vote Zinto

Originally Posted by Autumn

What is with all the movement.

I am concerned with the way Jackal seems to follow every vote movement in this game like he's just following the shift in the winds. Any time it seems there's a mention of switching momentum somewhere, Jackal is there. Am I the only one getting this impression?

Originally Posted by Autumn

I'm stranded out there at hte moment on J23 but I don't really see a reason to vote Zinto or Thomkal or MrBug, so I'm a bit of a loss here.

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I can't fault you or argue with you on that point, I was doing that a good amount yesterday and it prompted questions about me having an object or ability forcing me to do that. After reading over the last couple pages though I think my vote is better served elsewhere than Bug. As for Thomkal v Zinto, I don't have much separating them. I could see going either way, but from the posting Thomkal has left me with a slight bit more doubt.

Originally Posted by Autumn

I don't really mean your zaniness last night Jackal. I mean outside of that you seem to have been following the herd a bit. Though I think you did that last game too, so that may just be the vibe you give me.

Originally Posted by Autumn

Well, J23 obviously, or CF, just for that non-NTN vote. I'd vote Jackal, just more on gut than anything. I'm not sure who I'd go outside of that. But I just don't really see much on these guys. Bug and Zinto for being quiet, I guess, which I expect from either of them. Thomkal has actually given me a strong villager vibe, I can't see voting there. I'll pile on in the end, if need be, depending on which voters I trust. But I don't see how these candidates really come out of the events of the last couple days.

Originally Posted by Autumn

That's true, I did forget that.

Originally Posted by Autumn

I would also vote Mauboy too at this point. Just looking through his posts I don't get a good feeling from him. One of those "say vague things that make some people look bad without actually commiting to it" type things.

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

You keep forgetting that I had the deciding vote on ntndeacon that lynched him after raiders tied it up at the end.

Originally Posted by Autumn

If you'd just vote J23, then we'd know if he was bad, and whether I should trust you for that vote ;-)

Originally Posted by Danny

So Autumn you want a vote on J23?

Originally Posted by Danny

Autumn take a stand and put your vote out there

Originally Posted by Danny

Alright, Autumn I will give you a bone and see what happens.

Unvote Zinto
Vote J23

Originally Posted by Autumn

Jeez guys, give a guy a minute. I'm trying to enter in the vote history, and look at posts and think. We're not all genius as you guys (or as bored maybe).

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

why not...

unvote thomkal
vote j23

Originally Posted by Autumn

I already said I'm really unlikely to vote thomkal, so if things stay as they are I will vote Zinto

Originally Posted by Autumn

see you guys are making more work for me. ;-)

Originally Posted by Autumn

Seriously, Danny and CF, are you guys required to follow each other?

Originally Posted by Autumn

I'll stay here then, see if people want to move. I'll move to Zinto otherwise. now some owrk.

Originally Posted by Autumn

Do you really have that impression, CF, that I like to vote last? Other than the other night? I don't consider that at all my MO.

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

sorry autumn. Didn't mean to make that sound snotty. But yes, I have seen you do that in many games. *shrug*. It isn't necessarily a bad thing or bad strategy or whatever. And you aren't the only one that likes to do so. But yes you do it. Not all the time I guess but many times.

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I think Danny is the better choice as I have not been converted.

Originally Posted by Autumn

Let's kill you both and let Abe sort you out.

Originally Posted by Autumn

Certainly Zinto should, as it seems pretty much set that he's going down unless people start changing their minds (danny or CF change their mind? No way).

Did you guys actually answer me? CF are you required to follow Danny's voting for some reason?

Originally Posted by Danny

no movement

unvote J23
Vote Zinto

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Thomkal 6 - EagleFan (1241) Jackal (1398) MrBug (1402) Zinto (1372) mauboy (1407) dzilla (1431)
J23 3 - Autumn (1264) Danny (1442) CrimsonFox (1445)
EagleFan 1 - Narcizo (1271)
Zinto 7 - Commo_Soldier (1322) hoopsguy (1345) SnDvls (1351) dubb (1375) Grammaticus (1380) J23 (1401) Thomkal (1468)

Originally Posted by Autumn

unvote J23
vote zinto

Originally Posted by EagleFan

What's the case against Z? or J23 for that matter?

Sorry, not much help here but so far Thomkal is the only one that I noticed with a post that pinged me.

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Choosing someone to die. Think about that. Ponder the implications. How do you choose someone to die? How do you choose a comrade, an acquaintance, a friend, a lover, a warrior? How do any of us have the right to kill another? Even if the source of death is the Cleansing Flame?

Today has brought many old questions to the surface. Surely, there has got to be a better way. Surely, someone, somewhere, has come up with a better plan. This cannot be the only path before you.

And yet, today, this is the option you have. One of you must step into the Flame. One of you must likely perish. That is the current way of things. Perhaps, some day, when the Red Death’s dominion over Earth is broken, perhaps then people will look at justice as something else entirely. But you don’t have that luxury. You are the people of your time.

Casting lots has determined that Zinto is to be tossed into the Flame. He steps up to walk in himself, under his own power. Then, suddenly, he begins to run, and you see him start to turn into a bat. But it is all to nothing, because the group of you know his type, and within seconds you’ve grabbed him and thrown him into the Cleansing Flame. You know what will happen next. His vampiric soul is borne to all, and you have confirmation that Zinto was a vampire. His once human nature was already gone.

It is days like today that remind you that you are on the right path. Never forget this victory. No matter what darkness you encounter and no matter what fear you feel, always embrace this moment. For it was the moment that you took down the leader of the Servants of the Red Death.



Day Three has ended. Night Three ends at 2:00 am

Originally Posted by Autumn

Wow, nice call!

Originally Posted by J23

Nice!

Originally Posted by Autumn

I've got to go get some food. But you've got to think Zinto used the vote move ability today. And Iwonder what mesmerize does?


Jackal jumps to mind also, that late move looks like buying favor. Yes, it's the same as I did with NTN, in a way, but combined with what I consider Jackal's wish-washy behavior it didn't look good.

I think a careful examination of the vote history should tell us a lot though.

Originally Posted by Autumn

Also, CF, you don't look good with your seeming hesitation to move to Zinto at the end.

Originally Posted by J23

I'd assume if a villager was forced to move their vote, they'd come out with it now (unless that's not allowed of course).

Originally Posted by Autumn

So following Danny's suggestion that he moved to Thomkal to see who would follow ...

danny votes thomkal 1387
cF unvotes mrbug 1389
cf votes thomkal
jackal unvotes mrbug 1398
jackal votes thomkal 1398
j23 unvotes mrbug 1401
j23 votes zinto 1401
mrbug votes thomkal 1402
zinto unvotes eaglefan 1405
zinto votes thomkal 1405
mauboy votes thomkal 1407
danny unvotes thomkal 1417

Here is that span of time. CF, Jackal, MrBug, Zinto, Mauboy. Quite a collection of folks there. Interestingly J23 bucks that trend and goes Zinto, making him look better to me.

Originally Posted by J23

Originally Posted by Danny

Commo and Hoops both look good, a wolf probably just lets the one or two lone votes toil and helps set a different second candidate to Mr. Bug

Originally Posted by Danny

Zinto with a day 1 vote on J23 and day 2 late vote on Jackal. I dont think he places an early day 1 vote on a fellow wolf and never changes it. I also don't think he puts the Jackal vote on day 1 if Jackal is a wolf. Additionally, because both players got heat the first couple days, they are unlikely conversion targets. Along with their votes today, I feel very confident both J23 and Jackal are villagers.

Originally Posted by Autumn

I don't see your logic on the jackal vote. It was a throwaway at the time he placed it, it looks like to me.

Originally Posted by Danny

Autumn, Zinto's Jackal vote made the vote 8-6, still fairly close. It only became 9-5 when Comm switched after.

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

i felt good about j23 when the vote shifted day 1 from him to ntn mostly because of odds. I feel REALLY good about jackal. THe only way he could be a wolf is if the other wolves don't know he's a wolf.

Originally Posted by J23

As I posted earlier today, I was fine with Zinto or Bug today. I'm fine with seeing how the other one looks tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Danny

Little evidence? Everyone of your votes is bad and it was clear you and Zinto avoided voting each other today. There is more evidence against you than any other player in the game.

Originally Posted by Danny

My ntn and Zinto votes were hunched. This once has a lot of evidence to support it with the way the vote went down today.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Looks like an interesting night, glad we got a wolf. Will look more and post thoughts after survivor. As for Mr. Bug, I'm open for that vote, was hoping CF would give more of a reason last night as I would have moved onto him vs. the other candidates.

Originally Posted by Danny

Mr. Bug, you have to acknowledge that case against you, if you do turn out villager, oh well. It's still the right play to come after you.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Still getting spooled up on what happened today, but now that I'm able to type instead of swype here was my reasoning for Zinto. Early vote day one then no change, no big deal, but interesting. Bigger problem, voting history day two, the move to Lathum when it is so close, so late and risk tying, I thought it was a move to possibly fish for another reveal. Just didn't seem on the up and up. As for the quotes above, I kind of am getting the same vibe on Hoops, haven't finished really looking into today yet, but not sure why you think good of him because he stuck an early vote on him and just left. Seems convenient, possibly didn't switch because it was a wolf-wolf as Thomakal I believe was a good candidate too. Just throwing thoughts out, possibly will change up after reading more.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Dola, also not getting great feelings about Narc, granted he is away during lots of this, but three throwaway votes, including one on a known roled villager and another on a possibly roled villager. Not to mention his suggesting I not look much into yesterdays voting, which seemed very odd and led me to believe Zinto was not on the up and up.

Originally Posted by Narcizo

If the wolves don't buck up their ideas then this game is going to be shorter than you'd hope. Judging by his powers Zinto must have been an original wolf and we can be pretty certain that there was a conversion on night one, unless it was blocked. You'd also expect some sort of save to be attempted for Zinto if he was around as he had a bunch of powers. Kind of means that the NTN voters are back on the table but with a new set of Zinto voters off the table instead.

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

The crackle of magic can be felt in the air. It lingers like the aura of a rainstorm. Your senses tingle and your hair stands on end as someone used the eldritch forces of yore recently.

You move towards the scream, and find the room of the Abjurer. You move in,, and find that he successfully cast a spell on himself to protect from any corruption. Unfortunately, whatever came through that door wasn't interested in corruption. His body was rent into three pieces, with various bits consumed.

Danny has been killed.


Night has risen and Day arrived. Day Four ends at 10:00 pm EST Thursday.

[Autumn]

J23 makes a good vote there, and his arguments with me seemed reasonable and logical. If he's a wolf he did a good job of hiding it there.

[Commo_Soldier]

Day 4. Again J23 is fairly quiet, one thing that struck me though. If we believe all converts happened by now the interesting thing is Narc votes up a fellow wolf and then minutes later, in fact the next vote, in comes J23 and votes up the same wolf, EF, most likely to buy trust. Then later on with 5 minutes to deadline and a close one, J23 says he is here and wouldn't like to see another 5 minute switch, why is that because the #2 candidate was an original wolf and you couldn't move off without looking suspicious?

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Well that's not fantastic.

Makes me wonder about the conversion-mechanic as I don't see why the wolves would kill Danny rather than try to convert him. Maybe they've used up their abilities in that respect. I guess the sheriff was thinking the same thing or was on a known role.

Still leading the village onto two wolves is pretty much better than must of us manage. In 10 games. And Crimson is going to have to really pick up the posting slack now.

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Commo - generally I expect to see little movement from wolves when you have a situation that is villager-villager-(I think) villager (as was the case day two) - they've no need to risk sticking their necks out and potentially looking like they killed a villager by moving their votes around near deadline. This gave me a decent vibe from Zinto. What did you see that made you suspicious of him?

I voted EF because I was interested in a EF-Bug-Thomkal race and Bug already had a couple of votes. Didn't pick Thomkal because I just didn't see him making the slip up in thinking that he made when going after mau - the one that EF picked up on. Putting my vote on EF was the best I could do to start a contest between those players.

For what it's worth I'm still interested in those three. I don't think it was wolf-wolf with Thomkal yesterday unless Thomkal had a conversion power that he needed to use so the wolves decided to kill their leader to save Thom. I shall reassess and take out the NTN voters and put in the Zinto voters from yesterday.

Originally Posted by dzilla77

I am going to trust Danny's hunch as well

Vote MrBug

Originally Posted by J23

I was passed a Tincture of Camphor night one, which I had the option of opening during the night window. Having no idea what it did, I decided against it and passed it along. Any idea what that item might be?

Originally Posted by J23

BTW, I passed this last night, not night two as I posted. I figured w/ item passing being the last action, I didn't feel the need to reveal I still held it in case the wolves thought it an important item.

Originally Posted by The Jackal

So this right here is pretty much why I moved off of Bug, he seemed to be hinting that he had scanned me. Now, I didn't want to point to it too heavily last night in case it would make him a kill target, but now that it looks very likely that there's gonna be a runaway on him, I think it's better to reveal early if you are in fact the seer. There's people in place that can protect you - and if you are a wolf, well, you can reveal and get countered on!

Originally Posted by J23

I assumed as much as well, and it is why I moved my vote a little while after CF had brought it up in the thread. I also figured Danny and CF, and were using the post-lynch antics to try to make sure he wasn't the nightkill target last night.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Interesting to see some kind of "don't lynch Bug" sentiment coming up. I was starting to get the feeling that he was a villager and Danny was an extra-good kill choice because it would set him up so convincingly. Plus Bug being more active posting last night felt to me like the "I'll show them they are wrong, and have the 'I TOLD YOU SO' post-lynch" Bug than the wolf in trouble Bug.

Bottom line, I'm happy that there is at least some contrarian thought to the runaway vote on him due to Danny's posts and subsequent death.

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Agree with Jackal that Bug probably wants to reveal at this stage if he's the seer. Sheriff can protect the same person every day so he should be safe until the Sheriff buys it.

Originally Posted by Autumn

I don't think we should necessarily assume all roles are in the game. Yes, we have a lot of players, but there's also the possibility of multiple roles. Maybe we got two ministers and no sherrif. Let's not base our play on anyone in particular being there.

I am also cautious about going after Bug. Killing danny is an obvious way to frame Bug. The question is were the wolves playing first level or second level, knowing taht seeming to frame Bug might make people not vote Bug. If Bug is not a bad guy (or not known to the other bad guys maybe) they might have killed Danny to make it an obvious vote and a wasted day.

I think looking at Thomkal voters is the best place to go. The vote was close enough that until the very end, wolves weren't going to move off of Thomkal. It was back and forth enough that I would think an earlier Zinto voter would jump onto J23 or Thomkal or Bug at some point. So while I'm still keeping an eye on CF, I think in general, the Thomkal voters are the place to vote today.

Originally Posted by Autumn

I was feeling funky about Mauboy last night, so would probably go there, barring time to do a real post analysis. But I don't want to spread things too thin and make it easy for the wolves. For now I trust Thomkal and so will follow him to keep things consolidated. If I get a chance later I will look at things more in-depth and maybe move this.

vote raider's army

Originally Posted by mauboy1

I know dzilla shouldn't be a candidate today (maybe maybe not) but I gotta think if he can be converted we should give him a look too.

Originally Posted by Autumn

Oh yes, I forgot he had revealed. And mckerney as well. That does limit the choices more, barring conversion.

I would like at some point to look back at night kills and see if we can guess who was responsible for them. I would guess that the bad guys have to cycle through players for kills, or at least choose amongst themselves. If Vlad was converting he could not be killing at the same time.

Originally Posted by J23

Bug, I've seen you in the thread today. Care to share anything about this?

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Can't a guy just randomly trust another participant in a game of werewolf?

Originally Posted by J23

I think we're focusing way too much on whether there is one or two+ wolf teams in general. Let's worry about that once we string up a wolf that has a description which clearly states that it has limits on their communication.

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Exactly, J.

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I'll probably move my vote over to Bug if no-one moves to Chief in the next hour or so. I'm really not feeling the "Raiders being day one convert" vib. And I'm not a fan of vague semi-reveals as a rule.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Hmm, I'm actually thinking of going back to an earlier vote target of Narcizo's - EagleFan.

I know his schedule is stressed - dealing with same issues here - but I can't think of anything that he has done off the top of my head that would be pro-village.

I want Bug in that runoff to see if anything pops, but I'm less excited about the other candidates I've seen listed so far.

If someone wants to convince me that this is a weak/bad vote, I'll probably be an easy sell. But for now ...

VOTE EAGLEFAN

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Was it good for you too?

_I_ certainly feel April fresh from the experience.

Originally Posted by Autumn

CF, did you get any notice of anything happening to you?

Originally Posted by Autumn

... and you've been exorcised of some foul spirits!

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

When I was exorcised? No. No messages at all, nor no items. I want items dangit!

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Jackal - Good
Danny - Good
Mauboy - Good

There, I said it. I'm the Seer

Originally Posted by J23

I'm glad to hear you scanned Mau, I had been wondering about him.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

unvote bug

will look later at other candidates.

Originally Posted by Narcizo

OK I think chief is the best choice out there but no one else seems to share that view. Don't want to get left with a single vote on someone. I'm interested in running a candidate against Raiders at least so I'll go back to yesterday's vote

Unvote Chief Rum
Vote EagleFan

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Well we're back to talkative people and quiet people as our divisions.

I still really don't think mauboy or j23 were wolves day 1. Um Bug, was that the ORDER you scanned them? that's important to know.

I don't think thomkal was at all a wolf yesterday.
I pretty sure dubb was a villager day 1. Autumn I never know since he keeps giving me the eye ( when his day 2 vote was worse than my yesterday vote.

Originally Posted by J23

Vote Eaglefan

I think RA is in the lead atm, and this will tighten it up a bit. I'm fine with both of those two up there as candidates.

I'll try to be back before deadline tonight, but not sure if it will happen. (cue the quick vote swap to kill me while I'm away).

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Bug - dzilla (1701) Eaglefan (1758)
raiders - Thomkal (1708) Autumn (1725) Jackal (1760)
crimsonfox - dubb (1769)
abe - Chief (1773)
eaglefan - hoops (1784) gramma (1819) Narcizo (1829) j23 (1837)

Originally Posted by SnDvls

VOTE Eagle Fan


started on him yesterday and I think it's a good play today to go back to him.

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

VOTE EAGLEFAN

Self-preservation, although I can tell you I'm just a vanilla Lightbringer.

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I'm on briefly before I have to go to my daughter's football game (she's a cheerleader, no linebacker jokes). Does anyone have any specific questions for me?

Originally Posted by dzilla77

vote CR

I don't like the runaway on EF and I can't quite bring myself to believe RA is wolf yet based on day1

Originally Posted by dzilla77

eh nevermind about CR - he has no vote yet.

unvote CR
vote RA

Still don't like it but, I don't like the runaway on EF.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

The more I think about things I'm curious, why do we really believe Bugs reveal?

Day one - Jackal - I think he just said this because Jackal has been on his side and told him he should reveal now if he is the seer.

Day two - Danny - I can't see why Danny would have needed to be scanned by the seer, that is more of an exorcist thing as I don't think anyone believed he was an original wolf.

Day three - Mau - Nothing has screamed wolf to me and if converted more of an exorcist thing.

My big thing though is I think it was just a save his ass type of move, Jackal gave him the out and he took it. I'm seriously considering moving back onto him.

Unvote CF

Originally Posted by MrBug708

If you go back, I've been hinting that I scanned Jackal and Danny yesterday. Had I wanted to fake scan someone, I would have been safer with someone with more pull than Jackal.

The Mauboy scan was more of a shot in the dark than anything.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there was another Seer in the game. Looking at sheer numbers, having one Seer is a death sentence

Originally Posted by Autumn

It wouldn't be particularly surprising if Bug's was a fake reveal, or he has been corrupted or converted, but it doesn't make sense to do anything about that tonight. We just have to take his scans with a grain of salt.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Here's a thought: Wolves get lucky, convert the seer early, hatch a plan to save one of their own and get him in the COT by claiming seer when he gets in trouble. Knowing no seer will be around to say otherwise.

Not saying that's what happened, just pointing out the possibility.

Originally Posted by Autumn

Why do you think corruption can be undone? Conversion generally means joining the wolf team. Once you know who the wolves are you can't really be unconverted.

Possession can be undone because I assume you don't know the wolves when you're possessed, you probably just lose control of your vote.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Makes sense, that is why I thought converted wolves couldn't PM. I was thinking because they might be able to convert every night it could quickly become the wolves advantage without being able to bring them back.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Why are we on EF over chief? His vote could have swayed it to Thomakal yesterday with only 9 minutes left. I know he said he had suspicions and would bring them up, and I may have missed them, but I haven't seen what they were.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Vote CR

Originally Posted by Autumn

I think Chief is at least as good a vote as EF, sure. A few people tried to get him running, but he just never got the numbers.

Originally Posted by Autumn

I wouldn't cry if we had a tie - I think one or more of CR, EF and RA must be wolves, and unless something becomes obvious in the voting, or they get scanned, I'm going to feel like i have to go through them all one by one. That said, if we can keep the villager ones alive and figure them out without killing them, that's good.

Originally Posted by J23

I'm here, but don't want to do the 5 minutes to swap game.

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Bug 1 - Eaglefan (1758)
raiders 8 - Thomkal (1708) Autumn (1725) Jackal (1760), dzilla (1889), CF (1891) Chief Rum (1945) mckerney (1947) mauboy (1963)
eaglefan 5 - gramma (1819) Narcizo (1829) j23 (1837) SnDvls (1845) Raiders (1876)
Chief Rum 4 - MrBug (1954) Commo (1967) Dubb (1980) hoops (1984)

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I'd like to see a tie with RA and hopefully CR, but EF I guess would be fine. I think CF should be on RA though so his +1 at least takes out RA if it works.

Originally Posted by dubb93

Did I miss where CF has a +1 vote?

Originally Posted by Autumn

I think Commo's just misunderstanding something CF said other days, talking about hte idea that there may very well be players/items with a +1 vote power.

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

nice idea commo but a bit late.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Bug, can you provide the reasoning for the switch? I'm at least as interested in the "why" in these spots as the move.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Even I am curious why he switched.

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Sorry on my phone and miscounted...should have left it

Originally Posted by EagleFan

That move was a just in case self defense move.


Is 10:00 or 10:01 considered late?

Originally Posted by Autumn

You'll have plenty of time after we lynch you for that ;-)

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You were pretty far from being lynched. A good 4-5 votes off.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Well, as for my thoughts on the lynch tonight. I'm not thinking too much of the EF thing, either way is blah. As for Mr. Bug, I just think it was strange for him to move off of RA so he wouldn't be brutal killed, then for really no valid reason move off of CR back onto RA with less than 3 minutes left when CR was still several votes away from catching RA and no movement in 5 minutes and limited movement as it was. Could be him worried we were going to run onto a wolf when we had a runaway villager. I really just don't think he is with us anymore, if he was. I also think it looks really poor on CR.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Yes, you moved to a player to be the only voter, then you miscounted and you interpreted a run starting on him you moved it when you didn't have to.

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Why wouldn't I just pile on ra in the beginning?

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Because you didn't want to be brutal killed, then you seemed not to care at the end because you didn't mean to start a run on CR when he was still a ways away from being lynched and a long-shot overall.

Originally Posted by MrBug708

If I was a wolf why would I worried about a brutal kill?

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

You wouldn't be, and you were not concerned as you moved onto a runaway leader which could have gotten you brutal killed if he was a wolf.

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

The night passes uneventfully, and you take that as a good sign. You didn't get any sleep, but the rest was nice. Breakfast is cold against the morning, and the nights chill is in your bones for a while. It doesn't matter what the temperature is outside, a man is always cold inside when he wakens.

The night steals life giving warmth.


You wait while most of your comrades arrive, but notice some still have not come out. After breakfast, you wonder if they've overslept, so you start looking for them.


You eventually find the Exorcist sitting calmly on a bench, until you walk in front of him to greet him and notice that has face has been chewed off. Only the fact he is wearing the same clothes as yesterday identifies this as dzilla77's body.

But where is CrimsonFox?

You keep looking. You walk by the church and notice that someone has hastily dug something in the cemetery last night. You start digging and in a handful of minutes, just a foot below the surface, you come across CF's body, dead to violent ends. It looks like someone snapped his neck.


Both CF and dzilla77 have died. CF was a roleless Lightbrigner, and dzilla77 was The Exorcist.


Night Four has ended. Day Five ends on 10pm Friday night.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Autumn

J23 makes a good vote there, and his arguments with me seemed reasonable and logical. If he's a wolf he did a good job of hiding it there.

The thing is all of us made a good vote there, but it could be used to buy trust just like voting up EF the next day. He had lots of heat on him, so much so a wolf had to come out and question why we are on two wolves. He needed to come off good.

[Autumn]

But this next day I have to go with the person who avoided voting for the wolf, not the person who voted the wolf, no? Yes, he could be buying trust, but that's the less likely case than a wolf trying to help another wolf.

[Commo_Soldier]

Part of day 5. I can't do this anymore. I mean seriously Abe is freaking laughing at us because J23 is sitting back and watching me help lynch our seer. Then we have the oh so true comment from Narc if bug is good we lynch EF and him and it should be like 10-1 and if the village can't win it deserves to lose which is exactly what will happen Autumn if you don't switch.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Well that was a pretty lousy day all around.

Dubb, what had you so convinced that Crimson was a convert? And did you happen to activate any kind of villager role to take matters into your own hands last night?

Commo, it has been fun having you in this game and seeing you get more assertive between last game and this one. Keep up the good work.

Bug - why didn't you immediately post your scan result from last night? It looks like you were on after Abe announced the results ... this is information we need to know and the failure to come forward with it right away is the kind of thing that can make people a bit suspicious.

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I have a question to the people involved with Chief's item swap - do you think the items are powerful enough to provide Chief with trust for handing them over? I'm probably looking at voting Eagle or him at this stage as the simplest options. I do have misgivings about some of the "cleared" players but I think we have enough of a buffer at the moment to push that on the back-burner until next week.

I guess I need to offer some sort of defence of myself at this stage as I'm a pretty obvious suspect giving my crappy voting record. But, you know, I don't really have one. I haven't been as present as I normally am and, consequently, haven't been able to make the same shaky analysis I normally do. On the plus side the lack of involvement means I haven't obsessed as much as usual and have managed to avoid releasing the Dogs of Paranoia! Although I have one or two ideas along those lines.

Originally Posted by J23

I'm honestly getting pretty skeptical about Bug. With there being two kills last night, I'm going to assume that there are at least 2 wolves (unless a villager confesses to one of those kills) and look elsewhere for the time being at least.

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Not much time here as I am heading out, only a couple minutes to check in but very good news. I found a convert last night. Sorry fo being unavailable for much of the game but glad that I finally can contribute.

I am tied up most of the day preparing for my daughter's birthday party this weekend and then I have poker tonight. I will try to check in when possible.


vote mrbug

Originally Posted by Autumn

Sure, all good points. But since I, at least, said last night I'd be voting between Chief and EF, anything that makes people sway in one way or the other is going to be wanted, by a wolf Chief or a villager chief. Better to lose the bat than die, probably in either case, but especially in a wolf's case.

I was hoping Bug would make this day easy for us, since we're down to 2 Thomkal voters to choose from (barring fake reveals or fake scans or converts). For now, since only EF has votes, I'm going to keep Chief in the mix.

vote chief rum

Originally Posted by Autumn

Rereading the rules, all I can think is that it's pretty much inevitable that a seer is going to be corrupt. I hope we have more than one. With an always-on sherrif, the wolves can only get at a seer by corrupting him. Add to that that he can corrupt himself by scanning ... *sad music* Sorry Bug, I hope you're still on our side, but how many nights can that last? Danny I think is the only thing that could protect Bug from corruption unless he has some item.

Originally Posted by MrBug708

If I'm a convert...I'm unaware of it

But I scanned Narizco last night

Originally Posted by MrBug708

vote narizco

Originally Posted by Autumn

Wow, here's a nice mess.

Originally Posted by Autumn

This is an example of what I mean. If Bug had come out with this first thing in the morning i would have just jumped on it. Coming out with it after EF's post leaves me hanging. Though the obvious thing to do if Bug was a convert would be to say he scanned EF, so that makes me feel a bit better about it.

Originally Posted by Autumn

Why did you scan Narcizo, Bug? I would have thought Chief and EF would be obvious scans.

Originally Posted by Autumn

I agree, if only because Bug has at least claimed seer. EF hasn't claimed anything and there doesn't seem a means for him to have done this. Ironic that Bug suddenly claims a wolf just after he gets a finger pointed at him though. We have to assume EF is a wolf who figured he got scanned and wanted to draw first blood. But given the very real possibility of corruption in this game I'm just not sure. I sure hope EF gets back on today.

unvote chief rum
vote narcizo

Originally Posted by MrBug708

This is my first time as a seer and I felt determined to hit s bad guy more than I wanted to clear someone. Narizco is usually more involved so I went with him.

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I was planning on coming out with my vote after the first big vote on me

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I also won't lie...I thought about saying narizco was good and that would have bought me another day IMO. I don't think I survive tonight's action sadly.

Originally Posted by Autumn

How do you expect they will kill you? And if you claimed a fake scan, you think the wolves would think you're somehow on their side?

Originally Posted by Autumn

Frankly if you had come out saying you scanned Narcizo good I'd be tempted to vote you. That's the sort of scan a fake seer comes out with. At least this way we can test your scan and your allegiance.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

The item I got from Chief looks like it could be powerful, but I have no idea, I'm going to wiki it in a bit to find out. What has me concerned however is has anyone admitted to passing Chief an item? Why does he have multiples? While it gains trust, I made it somewhat clear I would be going after him today and he knew that so it is easy for a wolf, who get all the dead peoples items, to pass me something to try and gain trust.

Originally Posted by J23

Vote Narcizo

I still think Bug is likely converted and Narc could be good, but I really don't want to risk the seer on that feeling.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

The problem is he doesn't really clear anyone. Any or all of the people he has said are good can now be bad because of conversion or he got an incorrect reading to begin with. I'm starting to think I'd rather vote Bug today to end this debate once and for all getting a good voting history to review over the weekend and also let the sheriff protect McKerney, or who ever announced as the Minister. Otherwise maybe CR or who ever else Bug scanned to see what his scans are really telling us, but preferably Bug.

Originally Posted by Autumn

Yeah I can't figure why a corrupt Bug would point a finger at Narc, unless he thinks Narc has a role, maybe. But it seems like a bold play. If Bug had only pulled it before he got fingered as corrupt, I would feel a lot stronger about it. But now you can interpret it as a save-his-ass move.

Originally Posted by Autumn

Oh, man, of course. I had forgotten about the gadget roles. I was just looking at that this morning too, but I was thinking maybe they weren't in the game.

Originally Posted by Autumn

Clearly you gave the hints we needed, Chief, yeah. I was just being dense. Do you have control over what you invent, or clues as to what they do?

Originally Posted by Autumn

But killing Bug won't make anything any clearer. As you said his scans could have been converted already. I suppose we could then guess who he might have lied about. But lynching Narc provides the same data. And unless Narc has an important role, at less cost. Unless we think Bug is offering up a wolf, which would be a crazy move.

Originally Posted by J23

Btw, Abe accepts conditional item passes. The item I passed a couple nights ago was going to go to Danny before he was NK'd, so it went to the backup I had listed.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Yes, this is very interesting, and I still think quite possible.









So you think about lying, what good does that do? Then you said something about waiting to reveal until you got your first vote. What I think is happening here is this. Narc is probably a wolf. That buys you trust, but you were thinking about lying because well, it helps to keep your wolf buddies alive. You realized however that if we lynch him and he is a wolf we probably keep you alive and this gets you all the trust you need to stay alive for the near future. As others stated, why Narc though? I'll have to go back and check, but at no point do I recall you ever suspecting him as a wolf. It does help though to out a fellow wolf with a bad voting record, limited availability, and a target as it is to gain trust. This may buy you today, but I really am not sold on you.



To me if it does come up as Bug becoming a wolf you are the next person I lynch. I'm strongly recommending again that Bug be left out to dry. The wolves need to lynch the minister and he has already come out, the seer, not so much.

Vote Narc

Originally Posted by Autumn

I would have expected them to make a run at you every night since you revealed.

Originally Posted by Autumn

Luring out votes makes sense, and what i would expect. But what did you mean you were waiting until you got a vote?

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I still am not 100% sold. You said you were pondering lying about it, that is ludicrous. Not to mention if you are a wolf it greatly helps out your case.



I'm not sure if we lynch him though, I kind of want to to end speculation and get a voting history for who voted for him and who not. I'm curious though why I've mentioned you being the minister and BGing you at night, but you have not corrected me. I just went back to see who was the minister and I misread that you were the Martyr and we were speculating a minister was in the game. That changes everything for who to BG, the obvious choice that DZ is dead now is Bug.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I believe if he is bad, he picks Narc because he:

1. Knows he is a wolf
2. Has a bad voting record
3. Hasn't been on a ton
4. Has some people thinking he is a wolf already
5. Most importantly, buys him trust that he is the Seer and still good.

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Did anyone have Narcizo as a wolf previously? I dont recall much talk about him at all.

As for bad voting record, a case could be made for pretty much everyone.

And why do you keep harping the fact that I might not be the Seer? I dont think anyone really doubts it. Yesterday it was I had to be corrupted as the Seer, there was no other way around it. Today it's "I might not even be the Seer".

Originally Posted by Autumn

Me either, which is why I find it a very odd scan. If he had turned up good and we'd been left trying to pick still between EF and Chief I would have been super annoyed, tbh.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I had mentioned it a few days ago, and Narc even has been admitting it for the past few days.

That is true, but Narcs is probably the worst.

I keep harping because you might not be and are doing / saying really strange things. It leads me to believe you are a wolf now. As for yesterday I was stating you might not have ever been the seer either. I've been saying this entire time that I think it is possible you are a wolf now either through corruption or an original and that the seer, either you or someone else, was converted and gave you the chance to come out as the seer. My stance has not really changed.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I have some ideas, but I'm not going to throw them out there to give him them until we find out what he says.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I'm not sold on EF, but if we have a supposed wolf we would be fools to at least not vote them out.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Not a ton, but there have been doubts about Narc, just nothing from Bug. Which is one of the reasons it was so weird for him to scan Narc over a person he was suspecting as bad.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I thought we had the minister in the game still with McKerney, but I re-read it and he is the martyr and people mentioned shortly after, because of the exorcist reveal, that the minister was probably in the game. After I re-read that I said he should be protected now as we lost the more important role.



I'm not sure if he is a great target now with all the scrutiny.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I would 100% buy into this logic if Bug had come out before EF. But with EF suggesting that Bug was compromised (still waiting for details) then Bug as a wolf would figure his days are number and try to get one bonus kill before he goes down.

If a fake seer isn't in danger (conversion most likely scenario, either him or another on his team being the converted seer) then they should just keep "clearing" people every day. But since he was in danger when he came forward with the reveal, I think all bets are off in terms of Narcizo.

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Oh for christ's sake!

Dunno if Bug got lucky or if the wolves have some sort of a scanning power. Really Bug? You suddenly know I'm a wolf like 5 minutes after Eagle outs you? pretty convenient. And you happen to have scanned me (not Chief, not Eagle) when I'm the sheriff? I'm guessing scanning power.

Honestly, I think we're in good enough shape to lynch me then lynch Bug tomorrow but I'm not going to let him take me down without a fight. Looks like my paranoid side was right after all.

Protected self. Protected self. Protected Dzilla. Protected Bug.

Yes! I rock at being a bodyguard. I always have. I think it's a cursed role for me. I know that it looks bad for me but, what the hell, it looks even worse for Bug.

Originally Posted by Autumn

This day keeps getting crazier.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

FWIW, this is the "roled Lightbringer" role that I thought Narcizo might have, since the night blocks weren't going to the obvious places. The natural explanation to me was that the guy in charge of the blocks wasn't around to see the stuff at deadline and account for it with his actions. This is also why I didn't mention a single word of that stuff in the thread - because if Narcizo was the BG then I didn't want to say something that might tip off the Servants.

With this post, I'm probably closer to believing EF + Narcizo than I am MrBug. But I still want to wait and hear what EF says before casting a vote.

Originally Posted by Autumn

I hadn't thought of that Hoops, but it makes sense.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

forgot to

Unvote Narc

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I'm willing to buy you another day as I'm more not sold on bug than you.

Vote Bug

If he comes up wolf you can always protect yourself, if villager not so much.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

While my thinking leans toward yours, but there's just a lot of stuff that makes no sense about EF, too. If he's a seer, why did he jump in and reveal just one scan and leave? Why did he call Bug a convert? That doesn't seem to be info he would get as a seer. What role does he claim to be if not the seer? There does not seem to be a role corresponding to his that I can see.

Although, should be noted, Abe said it's possible we have Lightbringer roles that are not listed.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

He never said he was a seer, Bug said that. I've been holding off, but here is my thinking. EF is the Detective and watched Bug. He saw he didn't do a scan, possibly even kill DZ.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Also, thinking of it now, it helps Bug to wait until later as Narc was typically gone and couldn't come out. They kill him and another one or two tonight and the village despite starting off good is now in somewhat bad shape.

Originally Posted by Autumn

Damn, that would be cold, but you're right, it would make sense to do that.

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Couple of other things. If the reason I got scanned was because of a bad voting record then if Eagle is lying my record is actually pretty good, thankyouverymuch. I prefer to think that I've carried a straight villager voting record. Sorry guys.

And, erm, something else. Sorry, watching QI at the moment.

Oh yeah. In terms of cost-benefit I think voting Bug is the right move. If Bug is telling the truth then I'm bad and Eagle probably is as well. You will have about 10:1 - if you can't bring that home then we deserve to lose. "If" Bug is bad then we're going to be down the seer and the bodyguard with two wolves left. Not quite so clear cut.

Originally Posted by Autumn

So with no counter reveal coming out, we have to decide if Narc is a corrupted sherriff caught by our uncorrupted seer, or if he's a real sherrif guessed at or figured out by a corrupt Bug. I would be surprised if there isn't a role or item in game that allows people to find out roles, or at least specific roles. But we don't know of one. That makes me lean in favor of continuing to vote Narc, but it's not much of a lean given all the other circumstantial evidence.

I'm going to hope that EF will show up and clear things up eventually.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Another reason for bug to wait, the prime two suspects CR and EF had already outed themselves as roles why name one of them and taking a shot is a good idea.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

That is the problem, he didn't say anything really other than bug is bad and that is who he is voting for. I didn't want to say what I thought he could be because I didn't want to give him ideas. I felt I had to though as I think it is a HUGE mistake to lynch him for that word when Bug has been very skeptical to others. I'm just laying it out there that he can find out bug is bad with a non hidden role that no one else has claimed.

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I have a couple minutes so I will tell you what I have been doing.

I am a detective.

I came close to asking to be replaced on day one when I thought that I missed the deadline (since I was going to be busy and unavailable much of the game I was afraid that deadline was going to be rough for me). Thought I had missed putting in an order but then saw I had until 2 AM. Hate the feeling like I just screwed up and cost the village potential information.


As it turns out I learned nothing on night one. I followed Danny and saw nothing suspicious.

Night 2 I chose hoops and saw nothing suspicious.

Night 3 I chose The Jackal and saw nothing suspicious.

Night 4 I went with bug and saw what was described as a mysterious shadowy figure hovering above bug and then saw something that appeared to be an evil spirit enter bugs body. Said that he suddenly looked my direction but it was uncertain if he saw me, just that there was hate in his eyes as he glared in my direction.

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Yes that was the exact answer I was expecting-that he either watched the conversion take place last night, or saw MrBug somehow change after his magic number kicked in on his conversion chance with his scans.

Now if someone else comes out today and claims detective my head might blow up.

unvote eaglefan
vote mrbug

Originally Posted by Autumn

Huh, that's not what I expected, to be honest. I'm not sure I buy it. Do those targets make sense? Certainly MrBug last night would if EF had doubts about him. Hoops and Danny are always good people to watch. What was Jackal up to that day that made you watch him?

Originally Posted by Autumn

So that sounds like the way the role worked last time, Thomkal? This sounds legit to you?

Originally Posted by Thomkal

yes it sounds legit to me, but quite frankly I'm not sure it matters if its legit or not-if we lynch MrBug tonight because of it and he turns out good, we have a no doubt evil in Eaglefan.

Originally Posted by Autumn

Well, at this point sheriff is our most important role so no way I take a chance of lynching Narcizo over the rest. I guess I'd rather lynch a seer, given all the conversions and such, or certainly detective.

unvote narcizo

Originally Posted by Autumn

And if I'm going to vote EF, that would mean Bug is telling the truth, in which cause I might as well vote Narc. lol

So I guess i have to vote Bug, as backwards as that feels.

vote mrbug

Originally Posted by J23

unvote Narcizo
vote MrBug

I don't see 2 scans in a night happening.

Originally Posted by SnDvls

This is enough for me

unvote eagle
vote bug

Originally Posted by SnDvls

dola - I too am a detective and that wording is almost verbatium what I got on nights I "observed" people

I observed Gram night 1
Hoops night 2
autumn night 3
hoops night 4

all came back as seeing nothing suspicious

Originally Posted by mauboy1

vote bug

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I would agree with you Jackal-given the number of people playing, detective would be the role I think we would have multiples of. I'm not sure I'm buying Sndvls claim here as there was no real no need to come forward at this point as no one has been openly suspicious of him the whole game. And its unlikely EagleFan would have been lynched tonight I'm thinking.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I buy it, I thought he was the detective on Day one when he asked who we all thought the detective should watch.

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I'm off. See you tomorrow. I think we're a good way towards winning this one.

Originally Posted by J23

I'm not sure you laughing is the only reason they think that.

Originally Posted by SnDvls

sorry guys (and Bug) have to back track on this statement....just reread the PMs again.

unvote Bug

I'm growing more weary of EagleFan now

Originally Posted by SnDvls

they werent' that descriptive when nothing happened.

Originally Posted by SnDvls

I will stand by my night results though and I fully trust Hoops, 90% trust Autumn and 70% trust Gram from the day of my night watching.

Originally Posted by J23

Given that we only got 1 kill a night and there are multiple wolves, I don't think following people should really make you trust people, but only distrust those you see doing bad things.

Originally Posted by SnDvls

vote eaglefan

If he's telling the truth we clear Narc and can lynch Bug

if he's lying we lynch Narc and clear Bug.

it's a 2 for 1 either way we look at it.

this would also change my "bad guys" list a bit too for those looking at it (though I doubt anyone is)

Originally Posted by Autumn

I want to vote EF if our other detective finds his reveal false-sounding. But Sndvls, are you saying your PMs were less descriptive than "saw nothing suspicious"? That sounds pretty non-descriptive, but I guess I can imagine ways it might be even less so.

Originally Posted by SnDvls

YES

very less descriptive than that

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

So did Abe even respond to you then?

Originally Posted by SnDvls

yes he did.....don't want to give away too much here

Originally Posted by mauboy1

I'd venture to guess bug could still be bad and this is all one big hoax concocted by sndvls. I don't know what to do.

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Abe is too busy laughing Dubb

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Well, if Bug is convinced EF is also a wolf, he'll be moving there I assume.

Originally Posted by mauboy1

That leaves us with a tie and a huge conundrum. Do we kill them both due to the craziness of it all?

Originally Posted by Autumn

What is your theory on what has happened, Dubb? You think Bug is bad, Narc is good, EF is good? And you think Sndvls is bad or just confused?

[Commo_Soldier]

If you have any other questions I'll answer. Good game J23 you really pulled the wool over Autumns eyes all because I was a vanilla villager with nothing to lose so why not speak what I thought.

[Commo_Soldier]

If it is you that is the wolf Autumn more power to you as I really think you would have voted out J23, but maybe you were concerned about the Dubb thing you mentioned earlier. Unbelievable if that is the case though, that I'm willing to lose to because that is just brilliance.

[Commo_Soldier]

Abe any ruling on if people can just vote who they think the wolf is after 7? Maybe the wolf between Autumn and J23 would be so kind to send a pre contingency order in on who to NK if I survive the flame to help this happen.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Abe any ruling on if people can just vote who they think the wolf is after 7? Maybe the wolf between Autumn and J23 would be so kind to send a pre contingency order in on who to NK if I survive the flame to help this happen.

I'm not sure I understand the question.

[Commo_Soldier]

Can observers put a vote in the thread starting after deadline on who they think the wolf is kind of as an anticipation to the result. This would only work if either the wolf gets nominated or the wolf submits who they would NK if a villager is nominated and survives the flame.

[hoopsguy]

Time check.

[Autumn]

I just don't see what yo'ure saying there, Commo. Can I see a case for you possibly being a villager? Sure. But I don't see the case for J23 being a wolf. If it was you versus Mckerney, sure you could have maybe moved my vote. But as far as I can see J23 is a lot less likely to be a wolf than you.

[Commo_Soldier]

Since this is a unique situation where the game is going to end after this vote or after the night action/kill.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Time check.

lol

[Autumn]

Kids just got home, so I'll be only half here 'til they get to bed.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I just don't see what yo'ure saying there, Commo. Can I see a case for you possibly being a villager? Sure. But I don't see the case for J23 being a wolf. If it was you versus Mckerney, sure you could have maybe moved my vote. But as far as I can see J23 is a lot less likely to be a wolf than you.

1. J23 is fishing for items, which can be used to determine who would be a possible NK
2. J23 has a dark charm, why would a villager have this, kind of like a villager having a cunning charm.
3. EF comes out in support of both Zinto and J23 to try and bring heat off of them.
4. J23 has not said much of anything, at least the first 4 days unless he was in trouble or to vote. I'd say about 85% of his posts were of that variety.

I guess it is just hard for me knowing I'm a villager and the wolf is going to win this in all likely-hood because I spoke my mind as a vanilla. Crazy that all the last wolf had to do was stay silent and let me talk for them at points. On the bright side maybe this game will help us all read people better, I know I feel I've improved a bit.

[hoopsguy]

Just to be clear - I'm not trying to rush you guys at all. Just trying to make a funny while waiting to see the end of this one.

[The Jackal]

Mic check.

[Commo_Soldier]

On a note better than putting a villager up for lynch, we need more post to make this top 5. Which is part of the reason I quoted Abe and his stating he was deleting his misplaced dynasty posts. Why are you trying to keep this from achieving its full potential?

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I guess it is just hard for me knowing I'm a villager and the wolf is going to win this in all likely-hood because I spoke my mind as a vanilla. Crazy that all the last wolf had to do was stay silent and let me talk for them at points. On the bright side maybe this game will help us all read people better, I know I feel I've improved a bit.

If you are a villager, Commo, I know just how that feels. I had a couple really frustrating lynches a few games that just felt like me beating my head against the wall. The problem is if you're a wolf you'll post the same thing. And probably be just as frustrated ;-)

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

On a note better than putting a villager up for lynch, we need more post to make this top 5. Which is part of the reason I quoted Abe and his stating he was deleting his misplaced dynasty posts. Why are you trying to keep this from achieving its full potential?

Let's all unvote and take it over the weekend!

[The Jackal]

Abe

[The Jackal]

already

[The Jackal]

said

[The Jackal]

he