WW CXLIX SPAWN IV - GAME OVER (Post 3845)

[Danny]

Great game barkeep! Well played everyone, I've been sweating this one!

And for some reason I was paranoid Abe was bodyguard lol.

[Chief Rum]

Danny, you were the only Spawn left?

[Danny]

And even though it doesn't seem like it, Brit was starting spawn and I was converted. I was actually upset at first cause I was having such a great villager game

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Danny, you were the only Spawn left?

Yes

[Chief Rum]

So you were converted by Zinto and britrock that night I followed Zinto?

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Danny

Great game barkeep! Well played everyone, I've been sweating this one!

And for some reason I was paranoid Abe was bodyguard lol.

I never had a role, but I wanted to play that close to the vest. BK can you let us know what roles people had who may not have been aware of them?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

So you were converted by Zinto and britrock that night I followed Zinto?

I believe so yes, night 4

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I never had a role, but I wanted to play that close to the vest. BK can you let us know what roles people had who may not have been aware of them?

I was having visions of batman lol, thought you were going to thwart me again

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Danny

I believe so yes, night 4

Yes, that was the night. Everyone fixated on Shiggles because of that no beds and exhausted thing.

Oh, yeah, BK, please explain what happened that night with Shiggles and the beds? That was extremely confusing.

[Danny]

I'm pretty sure it was because zinto used a bed and only got exhausted cause of spawn attack

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I never had a role, but I wanted to play that close to the vest. BK can you let us know what roles people had who may not have been aware of them?

You were Gut Feeling. Since you never were in the voting crosshair you never learned of your status.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Danny

I'm pretty sure it was because zinto used a bed and only got exhausted cause of spawn attack

This is the correct explanation. Shiggles had even hit upon it, but by the time he did so it was too late as people were going to vote against him.

[hoopsguy]

Good job by Danny finishing that one off.

I was surprised to see JAG duke it to one of the officers yesterday. He had played a brilliant game, but the risk management calculus seemed off on that play.

The Spawn being able to do multiple kills for multiple nights was pretty challenging ... would they have been able to do that every night if they opted for that option?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Good job by Danny finishing that one off.

I was surprised to see JAG duke it to one of the officers yesterday. He had played a brilliant game, but the risk management calculus seemed off on that play.

The Spawn being able to do multiple kills for multiple nights was pretty challenging ... would they have been able to do that every night if they opted for that option?

Thanks!

Yes, each spawn got a separate action. It was largely a new wolf team, but when I learned of each nights actions after being converted I was quite surprised that they largely chose to stack their actions instead of splitting them. They could have even done three separate spawn attacks.

[Danny]

I made some mistakes as spawn, but the key decision that we made that gave us a chance to win was to not reform the queen and instead kill the two doctors.

[Danny]

I was not unaware spawn at that time, I became unaware last night.

[Danny]

Chubby could have made it easy on me if he just scanned me instead of Crimson

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Good job by Danny finishing that one off.

I was surprised to see JAG duke it to one of the officers yesterday. He had played a brilliant game, but the risk management calculus seemed off on that play.

The Spawn being able to do multiple kills for multiple nights was pretty challenging ... would they have been able to do that every night if they opted for that option?

The Spawn got very lucky with their attacks and very unlucky with their conversions (not one person was converted by exposure to the "elements" this game). The Survivors also didn't really do much for defense, which would have really changed the calculus.

[Danny]

If it were me, I would have started the game by doing three separate spawn attacks on people without phasers who were not likely to be taking an action that night. It was too risky to go after Dubb who had a phaser and was likely to be awake doing something.

[Danny]

Bk, weren't the odds pretty good attacking exhausted people though? What did you have to random in order for the kill to miss?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Danny

Bk, weren't the odds pretty good attacking exhausted people though? What did you have to random in order for the kill to miss?

Well without anything else going on there is a 55% chance an attack will kill a person, a 20% chance an attack will wound them, and 25% chance of nothing. Exhaustion decreases the nothing chance and increases the kill chance.

[Autumn]

Wow, great win, Danny. I'm heading out right now but definitely want to talk more about this game. It was a great deal of fun.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

The Spawn got very lucky with their attacks and very unlucky with their conversions (not one person was converted by exposure to the "elements" this game). The Survivors also didn't really do much for defense, which would have really changed the calculus.

Do you mean by guarding people, BK? Or something else?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Well without anything else going on there is a 55% chance an attack will kill a person, a 20% chance an attack will wound them, and 25% chance of nothing. Exhaustion decreases the nothing chance and increases the kill chance.

Hmm, then definitely some good randoming there BK!

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Do you mean by guarding people, BK? Or something else?

Yes. The Security Staff all focused on spying, by and large, rather than defending which is different than previous games (which saw a mixture).

[JAG]

BK, what were the odds Britrock would go 7 days without evolving?

Fun game, thanks for running it. I don't think I've ever had a game where I've made so many mistakes, especially with the rules.

[saldana]

thanks for the game barkeep...spawn remains probably my favorite werewolf theme ever.

i think there was too much going on this time for the survivors...the conversions + all the repairs seemed like a lot, and forced us to stay on the planet for a long time...given that the spawn could all do individual things, and get random help from the planet (which you already said they didnt), i think it was an uphill climb for the villagers.

of course we didnt help ourselves by wasting 2 villagers instead of just lynching dubb.

[saldana]

dola, all the work that needed to get done pretty much eliminated the brig strategy..we couldnt afford to not have people working and there were so many repairs and conversions that there was no one left to convert to a warden to use it.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by JAG

BK, what were the odds Britrock would go 7 days without evolving?

Fun game, thanks for running it. I don't think I've ever had a game where I've made so many mistakes, especially with the rules.

Brit was never going to evolve. I did that for balance.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by JAG

BK, what were the odds Britrock would go 7 days without evolving?

Fun game, thanks for running it. I don't think I've ever had a game where I've made so many mistakes, especially with the rules.

You were by far the biggest reason the survivors were able to take off and overall played a fantastic game.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by saldana

thanks for the game barkeep...spawn remains probably my favorite werewolf theme ever.

i think there was too much going on this time for the survivors...the conversions + all the repairs seemed like a lot, and forced us to stay on the planet for a long time...given that the spawn could all do individual things, and get random help from the planet (which you already said they didnt), i think it was an uphill climb for the villagers.

of course we didnt help ourselves by wasting 2 villagers instead of just lynching dubb.

Originally Posted by saldana

dola, all the work that needed to get done pretty much eliminated the brig strategy..we couldnt afford to not have people working and there were so many repairs and conversions that there was no one left to convert to a warden to use it.

I agree that the Survivors had a challenge. Balance is always tricky with this game. Part of what threw the balance off was that the Survivors did a lot less night work than in previous games. After 3 games I expected the Survivors to do more work at night and it seemed like only CF and Hoops ever did that. I agree the brig strategy was less viable which is why I didn't make someone a Warden initially; it felt like that would be too much of a "wasted" role.

I think the Spawn had some real obstacles as well, however. First, the Spawn worked on the Overlord Night 1. If they hadn't there would have been increasing penalties for them, which would have ultimately forced them to do so at a later, and perhaps worse, time. Second there was the chance for multiple scans not only with the doctors but with the scientists. Brit faked a lot of work on it, but it was still completed and could have potentially been very bad news for the Spawn if 2 more people were being scanned every day. And unlike a doctor scan, you wouldn't have lost it if it found a Spawn AND it would have detected Unaware Spawn during the Night cycle. I will also say that Zinto's move of sending out people on the Away Team was brilliant and helped provide maneuvering room for them. Plus, yeah the Survivors should have killed the Spawn . Despite all that, the Spawn came 1 vote (and 1 Duking) away from losing the game. It was really there for the taking for either side all the way to the end.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Danny

You were by far the biggest reason the survivors were able to take off and overall played a fantastic game.

I agree. JAG I thought you were a great Captain. Autumn was also a great First Officer while he lived.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I agree. JAG I thought you were a great Captain. Autumn was also a great First Officer while he lived.

Except for voting me, yes he was

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Danny

And even though it doesn't seem like it, Brit was starting spawn and I was converted. I was actually upset at first cause I was having such a great villager game

Zinto (and I guess the rest of us starting Spawn) were wary of you re-joining the game, so we made sure that our first act would be to Spawn attack you.

That said, though, here's a question for the rulemaster -- I was under the impression that Zinto (as Spawn Queen) had to be a part of each Spawn attack, limiting us to 1 per night. Is that right? Or is it that the Spawn Queen's existence made it possible for each of us to launch Spawn attacks?

We also did a lot of stacking to improve our odds early on. And we were pretty risk-averse; we only dared face a phaser once (in Spawn attacking Dubb), because we wanted someone in Security on our side.

JAG, were you actually guarding the Water Plant the other night? Because once I was lynched, I realized that (in my understanding of the rules) no one was in a role that allowed them to guard the Water Plant. If Danny had attacked it and damaged it, all of the crew (except Danny) would have died of two days' dehydration in the morning. Thankfully, Danny found the other way to make it work.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I agree. JAG I thought you were a great Captain. Autumn was also a great First Officer while he lived.

Agreed.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by britrock88

That said, though, here's a question for the rulemaster -- I was under the impression that Zinto (as Spawn Queen) had to be a part of each Spawn attack, limiting us to 1 per night. Is that right? Or is it that the Spawn Queen's existence made it possible for each of us to launch Spawn attacks?

The Queen had to be a part of any Spawn attack. A regular attack could be done with or without the Queen. But if you wanted to make someone Spawn, the Queen had to be part of it.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by britrock88

JAG, were you actually guarding the Water Plant the other night? Because once I was lynched, I realized that (in my understanding of the rules) no one was in a role that allowed them to guard the Water Plant. If Danny had attacked it and damaged it, all of the crew (except Danny) would have died of two days' dehydration in the morning. Thankfully, Danny found the other way to make it work.

I figured the game was lost (for the second day in a row...the night before I expected the Danny-Abe Spawn team to kill LSG and I) when I saw the damage to the water plant and that we were all dehydrated. Blow up the plant at night and we lose, plus once it was revealed you were Spawn, I figured you and your teammate would have been all over that since you seemed to have a great grasp of things. The only thing I could think of was trying to 'repair' the plant even though it hadn't been broken yet. BK told me I didn't know what would happen if I tried to pre-emptively fix it. I wanted to coordinate some other people to help me but I didn't want to tip off the Spawn just in case they weren't planning that attack, plus I didn't even know if it would work.

[Shiggles]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

This is the correct explanation. Shiggles had even hit upon it, but by the time he did so it was too late as people were going to vote against him.

Yeah! take THAT! :-P. The only other possible thing i could have thrown out was a different secret role, but really since i said spawn aware it would have just incriminated me. Figured you guys would have picked up on me trying to climb into bed with people, or seeing if anyone could "assist" with scans, or me assisting as medic. I just wanted to use the role which i never got any hits on lol.

And well played Danny/brit, i never suspected either one of you. call that guilt for killin ya the first time danny though >.<

Brit was entering the grey area though ill admit, and i realize that when so many days past, theres plenty of chances to get infected, so a scan on day 1/2/3 really shouldnt hold up. Although, isnt there usually evidence of an attack? or do some conversions just happen and no one is the wiser? that was the problem i was trying to combat with people suspecting me as spawn, because there was no night report of anything happening to me, i couldnt even see myself as a spawn candidate

[JAG]

What happened to the fence?

[Danny]

I think i played well i the frame of ww, but I did a poor job with the rules in regards to spawn specific stuff and completely overlooked the water thing. Oh well it was more dramatic killing jag ad becoming captain lol.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by JAG

Good work Danny.

Hey imagine that, if you had listened to me we would have won. Huh...

[Chubby]

If one of the two people that the spawn detector was looking at were spawn, would it have said which one specifically was spawn or just that 1 of the 2 were spawn?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Hey imagine that, if you had listened to me we would have won. Huh...

Only if you cherry picked the last day, I don't remember you contributing much toward finding the other spawn. I'm not trying to be mean, but I think it's very unfair to jag to cherry pick one wrong move when he did more to help the survivors then any other survivor.

[Danny]

And I'm not sayIng you didn't help, but jag really put in more effort than anyone

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Chubby

If one of the two people that the spawn detector was looking at were spawn, would it have said which one specifically was spawn or just that 1 of the 2 were spawn?

It would have said specifically.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by JAG

What happened to the fence?

Built in failure. I wanted by that point in the game to give the Survivors a push to get off the planet. The Spawn knew it was coming from the start as well which I think actually helped the survivors overall strange as that seems.

[Abe Sargent]

Thanks again BK!!

[Abe Sargent]

I was actually a little surprised the spawn didn't take out the water plant after lift off, could they sabotage post-liftoff?

[Danny]

I think so that was me not thinking enough lol. I was so focused on ww stuff I overlooked winning from building stuff

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I was actually a little surprised the spawn didn't take out the water plant after lift off, could they sabotage post-liftoff?

Yes. I admit to being a tad surprised the survivors made no effort to have some back-up water as it was talked about early on the way the Spawn could dehydrate to victory.