Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

It's even more exciting than when you speak for everyone.

By everyone, he meant panerd

[dawgfan]

Let's humor MBBF for the moment and assume that Mizzou to the SEC is correct - which SEC West team moves to the East division?

The complications of that, as much as anything else, are reasons why I suspect the SEC would rather work out something with an Eastern seaboard school.

Frankly, I'm shocked that Clemson would turn down the SEC (if that's true). What would be their reason for doing so?

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

By everyone, he meant panerd

lol

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

Personally, I'm thrilled.

Props on the 3rd person use. "MBBF is getting upset!"

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Frankly, I'm shocked that Clemson would turn down the SEC (if that's true). What would be their reason for doing so?

Guess #1 - Insecurity and/or fear
Guess #2 - Institutional confusion about their perceived place in the post-secondary educational world
Guess #3 - Insanity

I can't think of many schools that would be a better fit for the SEC, not even sure I can think of any.

If you made me narrow it down, I'd say any denial would be largely a combination of my first & second guesses.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like AggieYell.com is trying to stream the Aggie meeting on UStream. We'll see if it works. AggieYell is saying that if the SEC option doesn't go through, A&M has a standing offer in another conference that they will accept. Sounds like most of the other Big 12 teams in that regard. Plans A, B, and C all ready to pull the trigger.

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Expansion intrigue is Scott's comfort zone - Pac-12 Blog - ESPN

Originally Posted by Ted Miller

Texas with an equal slice of the Pac-12 pie and its own network separate from the Pac-12 is a huge win for the Longhorns, yes, but Texas in the Pac-12 -- or whatever it would then be called -- is a huge win for the Pac-12. A give-and-take negotiation, in the end, would mean more revenue for everyone, which is the ultimate goal here.

I think Miller is absolutely delusional here; there is no way in hell Texas gets in with the Longhorn Network intact. Would even one of the current Pac-12 teams vote for it? The small schools are adamant about equal revenue sharing, and there is no way USC wants to compete against the Texas Recruiting Network.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

I think Miller is absolutely delusional here; there is no way in hell Texas gets in with the Longhorn Network intact. Would even one of the current Pac-12 teams vote for it? The small schools are adamant about equal revenue sharing, and there is no way USC wants to compete against the Texas Recruiting Network.

There is smalls of a lot of bs in almost every rumor out there. I think by the end of the merry-go-around, we are going to see the level of gamesmen-ship that went on, and how almost every rumor and direct quote was more about leverage than announcing facts.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

I think Miller is absolutely delusional here; there is no way in hell Texas gets in with the Longhorn Network intact. Would even one of the current Pac-12 teams vote for it? The small schools are adamant about equal revenue sharing, and there is no way USC wants to compete against the Texas Recruiting Network.

The LHN would likely be part of the PAC-12's channel and package.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Guess #1 - Insecurity and/or fear
Guess #2 - Institutional confusion about their perceived place in the post-secondary educational world
Guess #3 - Insanity

I can't think of many schools that would be a better fit for the SEC, not even sure I can think of any.

If you made me narrow it down, I'd say any denial would be largely a combination of my first & second guesses.

I don't get it either. With no offense intended on the Clemson program, it seems like (admittedly this may be based on my crappy memory) they frequently get a lofty preseason ranking due to their talent level, have a WTF loss or two in there, and drop out of the national conversation before finishing the season relatively strong with a safe, comfortable middle of the pack ranking.

Add in being a part of the big, bad SEC, they'll get all that same preseason credit, they'll follow the same pattern of playing up and down to their opponents, and end up in the same place...with more money coming to them.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Saw some pretty incredible numbers regarding population and footprint increases for the SEC if they add A&M and Mizzou. The population footprint would increase 51.2% and Missouri and Texas alone would compose 34% of the entire SEC population footprint.

Adding teams would trigger an ESPN renegotiation. Those kinds of numbers would trigger a huge increase in the SEC contract.

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

The LHN would likely be part of the PAC-12's channel and package.

I just don’t see any of the Pac-12 members going along with it. Last year they might have, when it was assumed that they had to have Texas in order to get a big money TV deal. But they already have the money, why would they compromise that much now?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Saw some pretty incredible numbers regarding population and footprint increases for the SEC if they add A&M and Mizzou. The population footprint would increase 51.2% and Missouri and Texas alone would compose 34% of the entire SEC population footprint.

And adding A&M + Oklahoma would increase 49% and 33%... A&M + West Virginia 47% and 31% ... A&M + VT 53% and 36%

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

And adding A&M + Oklahoma would increase 49% and 33%... A&M + West Virginia 47% and 31% ... A&M + VT 53% and 36%

Oklahoma and Virginia Tech are different as there are multiple major universities in those states. Split fan base. West Virginia would be a similar comparison.

My point more than anything was to show the drastic change in footprint with as little as two additional teams. This is all about money/TV contracts.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

And adding A&M + Oklahoma would increase 49% and 33%... A&M + West Virginia 47% and 31% ... A&M + VT 53% and 36%

I'm too lazy to do the math but A&M + NC State seems likely to beat all of those ... I mean, since we're just looking at potential pairs and all.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Saw some pretty incredible numbers regarding population and footprint increases for the SEC if they add A&M and Mizzou. The population footprint would increase 51.2% and Missouri and Texas alone would compose 34% of the entire SEC population footprint.

Adding teams would trigger an ESPN renegotiation. Those kinds of numbers would trigger a huge increase in the SEC contract.

If the networks execs were stupid enough to just look at population figures. Which they aren't. The TV rating figures are what draws the revenue, and A&M just doesn't draw a whole lot of viewers. I'm sure JiMGA has better access to the ratings, but from what I remember seeing, A&M was usually the 4th or 5th rated game in the DFW, Houston, and Austin/San Antonio markets. Many times a SEC conference game outdrew the A&M game. Based on those ratings figures, that doesn't automatically lead to a new contract.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Oklahoma and Virginia Tech are different as there are multiple major universities in those states. Split fan base. West Virginia would be a similar comparison.

My point more than anything was to show the drastic change in footprint with as little as two additional teams. This is all about money/TV contracts.

And my point is that 80% of the raw numbers (and a bigger portion of the recruiting benefits) are from the access to Texas... whether Missouri, WV, VT or NC St is the 14th team is pretty irrelevant from a numbers perspective.

[Big Fo]

I like the SEC how it is, I don't want to see far away schools like A&M and Missouri added. It's not like either school usually has a great basketball or football team either. Oh well.

[Tigercat]

This is big time speculative, but something to keep in mind with what may have been mediocre in state numbers for A&M in the Big12; what happens to those numbers when average Joe, who is more of a bandwagon Texas fan because they WIN, suddenly has a major Texas university to cheer for, in the supposed best conference in the country, with no other Texas universities in sight? The only major Texas university with matchups against universities with championship football teams (not named Oklahoma) from other southern states...

Again, very speculative, but don't you think hundreds of thousands, if not millions of bandwagon Joe Texas out there might just start tuning into Texas A&M games instead of tuning out?


*This is not to say that the university of Texas or that state has an unusual percentage of bandwagon fans. Every state has them, Texas just happens to have a lot of people, and a lot of those people care about sports from the casual level on up.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

And my point is that 80% of the raw numbers (and a bigger portion of the recruiting benefits) are from the access to Texas... whether Missouri, WV, VT or NC St is the 14th team is pretty irrelevant from a numbers perspective.

Absolutely right. I just used Mizzou as an example.

[cartman]

That is definitely a possibility, but if you are looking for hard numbers to justify a massive contract increase, they just aren't there at the moment.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Now that the A&M to SEC is all but complete (President was given permission to talk with SEC), it'll be interesting to see how far the expansion goes this year. It's looking (per Twitter rumors) like the SEC may push for 16 this year. That would blow the entire conference scheme up. Big 10 and Pac 10 to 16 would be forced to act.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Gottlieb info on SEC four additions......

GottliebShow Doug Gottlieb
High ranking source at Texas A&M confirms, going to SEC.Clemson,FSU,Missouri likely to join.

Would be an interesting development given that FSU and Clemson were previously said to be out.

[cartman]

Isn't that what he was saying 3 days ago?

[bronconick]

That's an exact retweet from Saturday.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Isn't that what he was saying 3 days ago?

And just the opposite of what he said yesterday.

UGA blocks GT,UF blocks FSU,USC blocks Clemson-Mizzou wants B10 if they leave B12

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Chip's chiming in again......

Orangebloods.com - A&M hearing postponed, but process rolls on

Amusing parts of this article are the financial loss figures 'if the B12 remains intact' and the comments about getting Notre Dame to join the B12.

1. The B12 ain't remaining intact under any circumstances, so that's water under the bridge.

2. Notre Dame is not going to board the Titanic AFTER it's already hit the iceberg. Dodds is borderline insane if he believes that.

[cartman]

It is so cute when MBBF makes predictions with such certainty, and insinuates you are a naive fool if you don't agree.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Texas legislative hearing over Texas A&M's departure postponed - ESPN
"While events may continue to evolve in the coming weeks, at this time, there is no immediate need to evaluate the merits of an athletic conference reconfiguration involving Texas A&M University and, potentially, other Texas public universities ... "The committee's intent was to be responsive to a pending reconfiguration involving major public institutions of higher learning with wide-ranging implications; not to micro-manage individual university decisions or to presuppose a certain outcome."

Even through the gauzy filter of politician speak, damned if that doesn't sound a lot like "ain't nothing fixin to happen any time soon, we'll cross that bridge when we get there".

[digamma]

I don't see that in today's Twitter feed from @GottliebShow.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by digamma

I don't see that in today's Twitter feed from @GottliebShow.

It is quite clear to anyone that has been paying attention that Chip Brown talked to Gottlieb and had him remove the quote. It is foolish to think otherwise.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

It is so cute when MBBF makes predictions with such certainty, and insinuates you are a naive fool if you don't agree.

So you believe the conference will remain intact and ND will join it? I'll take that bet.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by digamma

I don't see that in today's Twitter feed from @GottliebShow.

Yeah, it appears to be a retweet as someone mentioned. Apologies.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by cartman

It is quite clear to anyone that has been paying attention that Deloss Dodds told Chip Brown to talk to Gottlieb and had him remove the quote. It is foolish to think otherwise.

You forgot one step. Added for you.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by digamma

You forgot one step. Added for you.

Quoted for truth.

[cartman]

You mean they aren't the same person?

[Swaggs]

For the first time this go around, hearing is WVU talking with SEC.

If Clemson has said no, I'd guess this would be in a 16-team scenario and the SEC has put out feelers towards a few of the ACC schools and been told, "no thanks." WVU/FSU in the East and Missouri/A$M in the West.

[bronconick]

The problem with all of this is that it seems that the SEC is working overtime to shield themselves from a tortious interference (who knows if I spelled it right, since I just learned the word this week) lawsuit from the Big XII/ESPN/FOX in making A&M jump through the hoops for them.

Wouldn't them reaching out to anyone in the east, be it Big East or ACC open themselves up to a similar lawsuit on that side? On a similar note, wouldn't Missouri have to do the same open things that A&M is doing now, vote to allow their president to seek out other conferences for the SEC to accept them? Hell, Oklahoma's president has already said "We're fine as a conference as long as Missouri doesn't leave."

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by bronconick

The problem with all of this is that it seems that the SEC is working overtime to shield themselves from a tortious interference (who knows if I spelled it right, since I just learned the word this week) lawsuit from the Big XII/ESPN/FOX in making A&M jump through the hoops for them.

Wouldn't them reaching out to anyone in the east, be it Big East or ACC open themselves up to a similar lawsuit on that side? On a similar note, wouldn't Missouri have to do the same open things that A&M is doing now, vote to allow their president to seek out other conferences for the SEC to accept them? Hell, Oklahoma's president has already said "We're fine as a conference as long as Missouri doesn't leave."

The reason there would be issues with the Big 12 is because ESPN can void the contract with the Big 12 as soon as drops below 10 members. That opens the door for the Big 12 teams to sue for damages.

The Big East doesn't have that clause and because of the basketball setup would be able to function even if it lost 3-4 football members. The Big East also has a TV deal that expires in a year instead of a TV contract that was recently signed. The Big East is an easy conference to pluck teams from right now.

[bronconick]

Do they still have the super-increased buyout to get out of the conference they slid through when Boston College was stuck in limbo for a year?

[Swaggs]

I believe that I just read that the Big East's buyout is $5-million, which would not be prohibitive.

For what it is worth, I'm sure it is still a longshot for WVU to the SEC. Tonight is just the first time that there has been any SEC smoke, at all. For that to have happened at all (and it is likely just exploratory at this point), I would guess that feelers had to have gone out to Oklahoma/OSU, Missouri, and a few ACC schools first.

[DeToxRox]

I wonder if the Big Ten would still pursue A&M at this point if the SEC thing falls through. Most likely yes, but perception is big for the Big Ten and I don't know that the presidents would allow the Big Ten to be seen as a backup plan to the SEC.

[RedKingGold]

I'm hearing Penn State is in talks to join the SEC because Joe Pa slept upside down in his bed last night and now thinks he is in the Deep South.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

First internal chatter starting to pop up around Mizzou circles that I've heard. Couple of very good posters on Tigerboard are saying that Mizzou Board of Curators will call a meeting within 72 hours of A&M officially leaving the Big 12. Meeting will be to give staff permission to move forward with formal request to join SEC or B10 depending on how things fall out. Also said that KU and OU pretty confident that they will receive Pac-XX invites.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This is going to blow up every conference in America!


K-State Announces Ground-Breaking Launch of K-StateHD.TV
Digital HD network debuts August 30 with K-State VB match

This is going to completely throw off the competitive balance of Conference USA.

[DeToxRox]

Watching Bill Snyder in HD is a downright terrifying thing to think about.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

LOL.....this is just getting crazier by the moment. TT and Baylor are pissed that Texas is breaking up the conference since they're on the outside looking in on any realignment. They are pushing forward a state legislative option that would defund UT projects at an amount equal to the amount of income that UT receives via the Longhorn Network deal. Pretty much just a spiteful move because they have no other options to take out their frustrations on UT.

This clusterf^$# of a conference can't die soon enough. The state of Texas is a disaster.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

First internal chatter starting to pop up around Mizzou circles that I've heard. Couple of very good posters on Tigerboard are saying that Mizzou Board of Curators will call a meeting within 72 hours of A&M officially leaving the Big 12. Meeting will be to give staff permission to move forward with formal request to join SEC or B10 depending on how things fall out. Also said that KU and OU pretty confident that they will receive Pac-XX invites.

I wouldn't quote Tigerboard as anything but a set of extreme homers who always overestimate Mizzou's national worth.

I love the Tigers but think the SEC and Big 10 aren't the place for them. I guess I have followed Mizzou long enough that there are memorible rivalries with all of the teams from the old big eight. (Obviously KU games top the memories but also against OU in basketball, ISU in basketball, OSU in football...) Don't really think getting trounced by Florida or Alabama in football 90% of the time will be all that fun. Would much rather play KU, Texas, and K-State than Kentucky and Florida in basketball. I really want this league to stay together. Going to the Big 10 or SEC would definitely have its cool moments but I much prefer playing the familiar opponents we have now. (If you took Baylor, Tech, A&M, and Texas away I wouldn't care much either but I know that collapses the whole thing after NU and CU bolted last year)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by panerd

I wouldn't quote Tigerboard as anything but a set of extreme homers who always overestimate Mizzou's national worth.

I'd normally agree with you, but the poster putting up the information has direct knowledge of the situation through a state legislator who is also an A&M alum. He's posting as 'TTRaider' on the board. His IP checks out as a Texas IP. He mentioned that the A&M meeting would occur today three days before the media was even made aware of the change. He's only got around 25 posts, but it's very clear that he's getting very good information. Several of the AP and Rivals writers are trying to find out who he is as we speak.

[bronconick]

I just realized that if Clemson and Missouri had been invited and accepted into the SEC, there would 4 Tigers and 2 teams claiming "Death Valley."

Absurd.