WW CV: Transformers (D5, day ends Friday 9 PM EST)

[lerriuqs]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

So would a save from Mikalea supersede a resurrection from Lathum? Or was Lathum just FOS?

Based on this, I'd say it supersedes it.

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Out of curiousity, does anybody know how to paste from word w/o those f-ing smilies 'cause that would have made it easier.

Also, this is the only built in 'mechanic' that triggers for my non-mechanic lovers out there.

[DaddyTorgo]

8 minutes before night deadline - what type of choice do i have to make for it?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

So would a save from Mikalea supersede a resurrection from Lathum? Or was Lathum just FOS?

It looks like the resurrection Lathum claims is a night ability and bumblebee was brought back immediately according to Mikaela's described role. That said, it doesn't mean Lathum isn't lying.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I think it was edited,LSG.

It was. I just finished double-checking to make sure all other roles match my master and they do. That is my fault for not double-checking that earlier, so my apologies. This is the way the role was meant to work in my final version.

[Passacaglia]

Okay, so Mikaela resurrected Bumblebee, and not the Resurrectionist?

[JAG]

Like Lathum said though, wouldn't it be a silly role to try and fake? If he's lying, it would be a 1-1 trade of villager for wolf.

[DaddyTorgo]

okay - now i gotta see what went on

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I initially voted for you because I thought the run on Jackal was bunk, the two leading candidates had both revealed with pro-village roles, and a person I was leaning towards trusting had voted for you.

You then revealed with a role that suggested you would reveal the person you were voting for - why would you be voting for Jackal if you intended to resurrect him? That made no sense to me.

Your role says that you need to commit to the move prior to the deadline while Mikaela could not submit her action until he was dead. Based on PB's information on order of actions, you clearly did not follow through on your promise to resurrect Bumblebee (identified early by GE) or else it would have been your role doing the resurrection instead of Mikaela.

I'm not sure if we are into Day 2 yet, but I'll be voting for you again as soon as I'm able to do so. If this counts, then

VOTE LATHUM

PB said the order of operations is based on the order it was received. Couldn't it have been that Mikaela submitted her order much earlier in the day? Seems like a no-brainer of an order -- not dependent on how the day plays out.

[hoopsguy]

GE, Lathum would have had to commit his power pre-deadline.

20. The Resurrectionist- This character has the ability resurrect a person immediately after lynching. However, this action must be submitted prior to that lynch and is irreversible. The lynched person's identity will be uncovered as will the person who revives them. Both will be permanently left in disguise mode.

If the action was submitted prior to deadline, that would seem to supercede Mikaela based on PB's answer earlier about order of actions:

I can definitely share it. Any actions that specifically butt up against one another will be determined by order the action was received. For instance, if player A were to pass player B a piece of the All-Spark and a player C was scanning and trying to steal the All-Spark from player A, then I process them in time order. So if player C's order came first, he'll steal the All-Spark before A could give it to B.

Otherwise, there are certain preferences given to the basic roles: Bodyguard block will always be my first processed order and wolf kill will always be my last processed action.

Hope this helps. If there is something more specific or individual, feel free to drop me a PM. If there is a general follow-up, feel free to post it here.

However, it was clearly Mikaela who brought Bumblebee back. Ergo, Lathum is lying.

[Passacaglia]

Also, hoops, I believe the Resurrectionist simply reveals the role of whoever is lynched. I don't get why you think Lathum can only resurrect The Jackal.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

GE, Lathum would have had to commit his power pre-deadline.



If the action was submitted prior to deadline, that would seem to supercede Mikaela based on PB's answer earlier about order of actions:



However, it was clearly Mikaela who brought Bumblebee back. Ergo, Lathum is lying.

Oh, I thought this was a night time ability, but you are right.

[lerriuqs]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

GE, Lathum would have had to commit his power pre-deadline.



If the action was submitted prior to deadline, that would seem to supercede Mikaela based on PB's answer earlier about order of actions:



However, it was clearly Mikaela who brought Bumblebee back. Ergo, Lathum is lying.

Why is it certain Lathum is lying? Perhaps he is simply superseded by Mikaela's power?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Danny

It looks like the resurrection Lathum claims is a night ability and bumblebee was brought back immediately according to Mikaela's described role. That said, it doesn't mean Lathum isn't lying.

No, Lathum's role needs to be submitted prior to the deadline. I'll quote it again:

20. The Resurrectionist- This character has the ability resurrect a person immediately after lynching. However, this action must be submitted prior to that lynch and is irreversible.

[lerriuqs]

Originally Posted by lerriuqs

Why is it certain Lathum is lying? Perhaps he is simply superseded by Mikaela's power?

Or Mikaela already submitted their action prior to Lathum...

[Danny]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

No, Lathum's role needs to be submitted prior to the deadline. I'll quote it again:

Check my post above yours.

[PurdueBrad]

Time check

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

I can definitely share it. Any actions that specifically butt up against one another will be determined by order the action was received. For instance, if player A were to pass player B a piece of the All-Spark and a player C was scanning and trying to steal the All-Spark from player A, then I process them in time order. So if player C's order came first, he'll steal the All-Spark before A could give it to B.

Otherwise, there are certain preferences given to the basic roles: Bodyguard block will always be my first processed order and wolf kill will always be my last processed action.

Hope this helps. If there is something more specific or individual, feel free to drop me a PM. If there is a general follow-up, feel free to post it here.

Hoops, how do you gather I never put the order in from this?

Not to mention, my role is like a duke, if I am lying all that has to happen to disprove me is the real resurrectionist comes out and resurrects someone.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

GE, Lathum would have had to commit his power pre-deadline.



If the action was submitted prior to deadline, that would seem to supercede Mikaela based on PB's answer earlier about order of actions:



However, it was clearly Mikaela who brought Bumblebee back. Ergo, Lathum is lying.

Not sure how this is proven here at all.

[PurdueBrad]

PMs on their way out now, write up in 5-10 minutes. Thanks for bearing with me.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

No, Lathum's role needs to be submitted prior to the deadline. I'll quote it again:

I submitted my action one minute prior to deadline.

from the rules

Otherwise, there are certain preferences given to the basic roles

so is it out of the relm of possibilites that BB would be brought back by Mikhela first?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

FWIW even though it looks like I will live, I think it is TOTAL CRAP THAT PEOPLE WERE USING JACKAL NOT BEING HERE AS AN EXCUSE TO VOTE ME.


Total bullshit to punish someone for actually playing the game and being online. After 4 years I would have hoped we were more evolved then that.

i'm still catching up so idk what happened yet, but fwiw i agree with this post by lathum

[KWhit]

But Hoops, he's claiming to be the ressurectionist. Wouldn't the best thing to do be to lynch someone else and ask Lathum to put in a conditional to resurrect him/her if she turns out to be good? I don't know if he can do that kind of conditional, but it would give us a chance to try to get a free-pass on trying to lynch a wolf and allow him to save him if we're wrong.

And if Lathum is really lying, we'd find out and could lynch him then. Best of both worlds, eh?

[Autumn]

I don't know, I think Hoops has a point here. PB made sure to make clear the order of actions, and this is why, so we can catch someone in a lie. Did Lathum know Jackal was bumblebee andcount on him getting resurrected? It would make great cover.

[J23]

Unfortunately, I got home later than expected. Sorry I wasn't around at deadline as I had planned on, but I'm glad we have a CoT being built at least.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Also, hoops, I believe the Resurrectionist simply reveals the role of whoever is lynched. I don't get why you think Lathum can only resurrect The Jackal.

Look at the sequence:
Post #217:

Eaglefan 7 - Schmidty (64), Alan T (96), Jag (132), Jackal (134), KWhit (170), lerriuqs (195), Hoopsguy (205)
Lerriuqs 5 - Danny (92), J23 (122), Darth Vilius (127), LSG (147), GoldenEagle (179)
The Jackal 3 - DaddyTorgo (139), Eaglefan (173), Passacaglia (214)
JAG 1 - dubb93 (115)
Schmidty 1 - Autumn (119)
Pass 1 - Lathum (151)

AS OF POST 216

Post #221 by Alan T:

Hmm... I guess I don't see a wolf vs wolf reveal against each other. It doesn't hurt to let a possible reveal live longer. if they are what they say they are, they'll likely be night targets sooner then later anyways.

UNVOTE Eaglefan

Vote Lathum

Post #224 by Lathum:

Unvote Pass
Vote Jackal

Post #237 by Hoopsguy:

UNVOTE EAGLEFAN
VOTE LATHUM

Honestly, I trust Alan more than I trust this emerging run at the moment. Will try to get back to change if needed, but the double reveal + run on guy who is not here smells very, very fishy to me.

Post #260 by Lathum:

I am the resurrection

Lynch Jackal and I will bring him back to life.

Why would Lathum commit to bringing back Jackal in this spot? Well, if he is a good guy it is because he has to - he does not have the luxury to wait until after the deadline. But if he is a bad guy then it is because he is bargaining in hopes of not being a D1 lynch.

As a good guy, this is when he puts in his resurrection order. Well, if not at this point then certainly at this point:

Post #268 by GoldenEagle:

I hate to spill the beans here, but The Jackal is BumbleBee. Lynch him at your own risk.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I don't know, I think Hoops has a point here. PB made sure to make clear the order of actions, and this is why, so we can catch someone in a lie. Did Lathum know Jackal was bumblebee andcount on him getting resurrected? It would make great cover.

Lathum couldn't have known. He revealed as the resurrectionist at 8:52 PM EST and GE claimed Jackal was Bumblebee at 8:53 PM EST.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I don't know, I think Hoops has a point here. PB made sure to make clear the order of actions, and this is why, so we can catch someone in a lie. Did Lathum know Jackal was bumblebee andcount on him getting resurrected? It would make great cover.

While I understand hoops being suspicious of the situation, I think he's being WAY over the top on this. There is a way to test the theory and there certainly other reasons why Mikaela's save was used instead of the ressurectionists. I just don't see a rock solid case here, too many IFs.

Hoops doesn't normally build his case on wet sand like this. And thus I am disturbed by the vehemence of his comments.

[lerriuqs]

Note, DaddyTorgo is an autobot.

[hoopsguy]

RendeR, tell me how wet post #375 is. Along with the order of actions that clearly state that the Resurrectionist has to have the order in before deadline while Mikaela's power is only available after Bumblebee is dead?

[Lathum]

Hoops, I'm not sure what you don't get.

I voted Jackal to try and save myself. when I voted him I didn't commit myself to resurecting anyone at that point I knew however that I could resurect whoever got lynched.

I then sent an order to PB to resurect Jackal if he was the leading vote getter.

What's not to understand?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by lerriuqs

Note, DaddyTorgo is an autobot.

Mmmmkay?

[lerriuqs]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

RendeR, tell me how wet post #375 is. Along with the order of actions that clearly state that the Resurrectionist has to have the order in before deadline while Mikaela's power is only available after Bumblebee is dead?

None which doesn't preclude Mikaela's power from superseding the Resurrectionist's...

[PurdueBrad]

The recording of Megatron is shocking, something the Decepticon would never risk unless there were something major going on. Optimus Prime and company gather, listening to the recording, realizing that The Fallen has now become the leader of the Decepticons, with his own, unknown power. The celebration of Bumblebee's resurrection has now been off-set by this new fear.

Bumblebee turns to thank his savior, Mikaela Banes...but where is she?

Mikaela is found laying outside the control room, dead with a new tatoo, this one obviously added after death by the Decepticons, but at least her last action was one that mattered. Can you make your existence matter this much?

Hoopsguy was Mikaela and is now gone...

Tomorrow's deadline is 9 pm EST.

[Alan T]

I haven't caught up on everything including the lynch.. so if I repeat something already known, my apology.

I got my night result back and I'm basically a worthless role now according to it. I had the ability to look every night for the fallen. I was told tonight that due to Bumblebee being brought back, the Fallen is now the leader of the decepticons and has joined them. My nightly scan for him will no longer work either.

On that note, I was told prior to that lerriuqs showed no signs to me of being the fallen, but I assume based on the rest of the information that it doesn't matter if he was or not, I wouldn't know any longer anyways.

Anyhows, back to my falcons game and OOTP sim I am running.

[PurdueBrad]

Note, all powers regarding The Fallen are now null and void.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

RendeR, tell me how wet post #375 is. Along with the order of actions that clearly state that the Resurrectionist has to have the order in before deadline while Mikaela's power is only available after Bumblebee is dead?

That doesn't mean the resurection happens prior to the deadline!I put my order in 1 miunte prior to deadline. Maybe Mikhela put her order in 2 minutes before, i don't know all the ins and outs. PB also said certain prefrences are given to certain roles

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

RendeR, tell me how wet post #375 is. Along with the order of actions that clearly state that the Resurrectionist has to have the order in before deadline while Mikaela's power is only available after Bumblebee is dead?

Can I tell you? I don't think Lathum would have seen himself under any obligation to put in his action, other than being sure he got it in before the deadline. Why would he be in a hurry to do it?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

RendeR, tell me how wet post #375 is. Along with the order of actions that clearly state that the Resurrectionist has to have the order in before deadline while Mikaela's power is only available after Bumblebee is dead?

As stated by PB Mikeala's ability is automatic (check his post clarifying the writeup) from that *I* infer that when bumblebee dies mikeala saves him automatically, regadless of other peoples intent.

If PB can/is willing to clarify that for us we can clear up a sticking point in your logic.

[GoldenEagle]

Great. Way to listen at the end guys.

[JAG]

That sounds ominous.

[JAG]

bah hoops, you've gotta stop dying like this.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by RendeR

As stated by PB Mikeala's ability is automatic (check his post clarifying the writeup) from that *I* infer that when bumblebee dies mikeala saves him automatically, regadless of other peoples intent.

If PB can/is willing to clarify that for us we can clear up a sticking point in your logic.

Mikaela's resurrection was done via order. The mechanic I mention refers to The Fallen.

[RendeR]

Guess the hoops argument is now moot.

[Danny]

So, Mikaela/Hoops is dead and the fallen has been converted. There was a post about megatron having the convo with the unknown entity prior to night results, so I think it's a safe bet that the conversion was not in place of a night kill and Hoops was likely the night kill

[JAG]

Lots and lots of good info for us on day 1 and although we lose a great villager in hoops, the role they took out had already used its power. Gonna go for now, have a good night all.

[RendeR]

So now we're left with suspicion of Lathum, he could be who he says he is and simply put his order in later than hoops.

He could be a lying scheming suck ass decepticon with balls of pure adamantium.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by RendeR

He could be a lying scheming suck ass decepticon with balls of pure adamantium.

That would make a great sig...

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Great. Way to listen at the end guys.

I don't know how long you were online for, but you revealed with 7 minutes left to deadline, and the other leading vote-getter also revealed with 8 minutes left. If you wanted something else to happen, you need to give more time than that. As it is, I think we got the best possible outcome -- we kept everyone alive and built a COT.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I don't know how long you were online for, but you revealed with 7 minutes left to deadline, and the other leading vote-getter also revealed with 8 minutes left. If you wanted something else to happen, you need to give more time than that. As it is, I think we got the best possible outcome -- we kept everyone alive and built a COT.

+10

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I don't know how long you were online for, but you revealed with 7 minutes left to deadline, and the other leading vote-getter also revealed with 8 minutes left. If you wanted something else to happen, you need to give more time than that. As it is, I think we got the best possible outcome -- we kept everyone alive and built a COT.

Ahem. The hotness is dead on Day 1. No one wins.