The Democrat Party Headquarters Thread (No Repubs Allowed!!) - Page 8

mccollins · 07-22-2008, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

always wanted to watch a game from there.

I have 2 new PM's frpm Pass, checking them now

Oh yeah you were/are from Cinci! I don't have a lot to compare to, but the Lexington Legends place definitely feels a lot nicer than Low A ball.

henry296 · 07-22-2008, 09:55 PM

As for a bill for tomorrow, what about another bodyguard role?

EagleFan · 07-22-2008, 10:05 PM

I think we need to address National Healthcare and enact someone capable of healing those who have been attacked by a wolf. (I have not played in a game with a healer so I will defer to thoe who have for the possible stats for that role as I have no idea how it has been used in the past).

Chubby · 07-22-2008, 10:09 PM

As for tomorrow, I will be at work from 6am-4pm so this is my plan for my bill if someone could help out to write it out and make sure we don't have any loopholes.

I'd like to put forward a Brothers role, 1 dem and 1 repub both randomly chosen from the pool of non-wolf, non-bg, non-seer people. They have unlimited PM abilities. if one dies, the other dies.

I would like 1 centrist sponsor from each side of the aisle. Lathum, I'll need your help in lining up a repub centrist to co-support the bill with another one of our centrist congressmen.

I think that is pretty standard to previous brothers roles and should pass the courts.

I'm certainly open to other ideas but it will already be 4pm by the time i get home from work tomorrow so I'll be relying on my party to help out

EagleFan · 07-22-2008, 10:31 PM

Bringing this in here as I don't want to take in party debagtes too much intothe open. See the last game I was in for proof why the BG would guard himself day one. If there is no known role for the BG to guard it makes little sense for him to no guard himself as he neds to guard the most valuable rle that he know of and that is him at that point.

We seriously need to consider a better plan for tomorrow's 3 bills. I we veto this one we can pass two different BG bills tomorrow and if one is ridered we take the other. If we propose one bill and Chubby the other and the woves decide to rider the reps bill we in effect get two BG's.

PackerFanatic · 07-22-2008, 10:33 PM

I don't think we had a bad plan today - we can't be scared to try and get bills through, the wolves are eventually going to get a rider in that we won't like, we can't just veto decent bills (or write purposely bad bills)

chesapeake · 07-22-2008, 10:35 PM

EF, I was thinking the same thing. Veto this BG bill to deny the wolves their rider. The BG position is important enough we can probably get enough GOP support to pass it twice tomorrow, allowing the wolves to take one down.

It will give the GOP a boost in the presidential election that we may not be able to overcome in the near term, but there is plenty of game left to otherwise catch them.

PackerFanatic · 07-22-2008, 10:36 PM

Good point in the other thread, EF.

chesapeake · 07-22-2008, 10:36 PM

I thought today's plan was fine. We forced the wolves to pick between letting us have a seer or a BG. We come out well either way.

path12 · 07-22-2008, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

See the last game I was in for proof why the BG would guard himself day one.

Heh heh heh.........

EagleFan · 07-22-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

Heh heh heh.........

But we still won that game.

Thanks Lathum!!!

Chubby · 07-22-2008, 11:16 PM

Sweet I have a bangin' hot wife. BOOYAH!

Since I stand for integrity I will be signing both bills into law. I think it places us as a party at a disadvantage by vetoing the this as we need to focus on getting PackerFanatic elected President.

I think that the BG is too important to sacrifice for the cunning clause. Fortunately these decisions will be out of my hands soon enough once a President is elected then it can be his call.

I think people are letting a few wolves talk them into trying to get the bill vetoed and putting us a day behind in getting the strongest roles possible. I do think it was a Repub wolf move to attach the rider to our bill as well as try and craft the repub bill as too strong so it would not pass the supreme court.

it's a tough decision but one I am willing to make for the good of our country and party.

EagleFan · 07-22-2008, 11:22 PM

Ideas for tomorrow, depending upon the veto/non-veto tonight.

veto:
Plan 2 BG bills with enough differences that it's not obvious which one the wolves will rider.

Either the wolves rider one of the tswo and we get one through or they try to get tricky an rider the rep bill. If they rider the rep bill we veto that and get possibly two BG roles passed. This will give us a 2 bill day for very democratic roles and a veto of a rep bill so it's wn/win for us as democrats as well as for us as villagers. If they rider a BG we veto that ad still get one bill passed.

If no veto:
Look long and hard at Chubby's allegiance as the loss of a BG role for one night is greatly overshadowed by the chance to keep the wolves from getting roles. The positives of this veto completely outweigh the negatives.

EagleFan · 07-22-2008, 11:25 PM

Bad choice Chubby. There is no reason to not wait one day to get a BG when we can keep the wolves at bay without a role.

I know who is getting my first lynch/wolf vote unless a wolf decides to step forward and reveal themselves.

chesapeake · 07-22-2008, 11:49 PM

Very bad choice, Chubby. Veto the BG bill. You'll pull a lot of lynch votes otherwise.

Chubby · 07-23-2008, 06:00 AM

I'm not worried about lynch votes, I'm worried about what is best for the village.

The wolves knew they were putting me in a very tough spot today by tacking the rider onto the Democratic bill. I think we're hurting ourselves (the Party) by vetoing it as well as hurting PackerFan and myself locally.

I think the wolves want us to waste time farting around and delaying getting the strong roles into the game.

mccollins · 07-23-2008, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

The wolves knew they were putting me in a very tough spot today by tacking the rider onto the Democratic bill. I think we're hurting ourselves (the Party) by vetoing it as well as hurting PackerFan and myself locally.

This was a concern I had in whether or not to veto: CR's post last night already said the Republicans/illini999 had a slight popularity advantage - do we also sacrifice PackerFanatic getting the Presidency if we veto the bill he co-sponsored? I'm assuming he'll get a popularity hit for that.

I think it's an interesting proposition to veto all the wolf riders - is it worth getting roles at 1/2 or 2/3 the rate to help defeat the wolves by not giving them their roles? Quite possibly so.

However, If there are 4 or 5 wolves, then we're at a 4:14 or 5:13 ratio and that's only around 5 days of lynches and night kills.

I can see the argument for either position.

Chief Rum · 07-23-2008, 08:52 AM

The Most Popular Politicians Among Party Members

1. PackerFanatic
2. Chubby
3. mccollins
4. Lathum
5. chesapeake
6. henry296
7. EagleFan
8. KWhit
9. path12

Here are how the District Polling is shaping up

KWhit (polls are tight)
path12 (behind in polls)
EagleFan (ahead in polls)
PackerFanatic (will automatically be re-elected as presidential candidate)
Chubby (comfortably ahead)
henry296 (behind in polls)
Lathum (ahead in polls)
mccollins (comfortably ahead)
chesapeake (ahead in polls)

Note: There seems to be a concerted effort from somewhere to attack henry296's position in his district.

KWhit · 07-23-2008, 08:52 AM

Ugh. Just got caught up. Vetoing that bill really hurt our popularity didn't it?

And I'm the least popular guy in Congress?! Yikes. I'll have to do something about that.

KWhit · 07-23-2008, 08:53 AM

(Or second least popular guy from the post in this thread).

PackerFanatic · 07-23-2008, 08:54 AM

Despite the popularity hit, I feel you made the right choice, Chubby. We have a chance to get the role today if we play it smart.

Chief Rum · 07-23-2008, 08:55 AM

Hold on, sorry, adjusting the numbers. I went off the wrong column in my spreahsheet. Apologies. Don't react yet.

Chief Rum · 07-23-2008, 09:04 AM

There you go. Sorry for the angst.

KWhit · 07-23-2008, 09:15 AM

Whew. At least I'm looking a little better in the polls.

KWhit · 07-23-2008, 09:33 AM

I'm really disappointed in the way things turned out after yesterday. We had a kick-ass day, completely outperforming the Republicans, but because of that stupid rider on our bill, we're seriously behind and hurting in the polls.

Chubby, I don't think you did anything wrong. You were getting a lot of people encouraging you to veto the bill. But we need to solidify our political presence today and even the score with the Republicans. The worst thing we could do would be to get 2-3 of us out of office due to a lost election.

chesapeake · 07-23-2008, 09:33 AM

Morning snapshot from my perspective:

Given the hit we took from the veto, I am skeptical that we can win the presidential election. I think our first priority should be reelection. of our more vulnerable members -- Path, Henry and KWhit.

Chubby can help here.

I think we put another BG bill out there. The same one is probably fine. KWhit and Path should be the sponsors. A question, though -- if it has to be vetoed again, it would be done by the new prez, right? In which case, the GOP takes the hit (assuming we lose), not us. If Chubby would have to do it again, we may have to rethink this.

Maybe a Duke bill to be offered by Chubby, with the sponsors being Henry and PF. That should help shore up Henry's seat while giving PF a boost.

Thoughts?

PackerFanatic · 07-23-2008, 09:37 AM

You are correct that the new Prez would be the one to veto anything tonight. Which could be good in evening us out or bad in pulling us farther away (although if I do win, I could see that as a big help)

Chubby had talked last night about a Brothers bill that he wanted to introduce, I think that might be something to consider as well.

KWhit · 07-23-2008, 09:39 AM

I think the bigger hit on the veto was the fact that it was a democratic sponsored bill as well as a measure that is considered very democratic in the political spectrum.

Even if a Repub pres vetoed today's BG bill, we'd still take a huge hit.

chesapeake · 07-23-2008, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

I think the bigger hit on the veto was the fact that it was a democratic sponsored bill as well as a measure that is considered very democratic in the political spectrum.

Even if a Repub pres vetoed today's BG bill, we'd still take a huge hit.

You may be right about the game mechanics, although I am not sure about that; but that would be counter to how it plays in real life. CR's writeup mentions specifically that a Democratic Speaker killed the bill.

If the Dems in Congress pass a broadly popular health care bill and Bush somehow found the gumption to veto it, Bush would absolutely take the hit politically.

I am going to reread what CR wrote about the veto, but I think the new Prez would take the hit.

chesapeake · 07-23-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

You are correct that the new Prez would be the one to veto anything tonight. Which could be good in evening us out or bad in pulling us farther away (although if I do win, I could see that as a big help)

Chubby had talked last night about a Brothers bill that he wanted to introduce, I think that might be something to consider as well.

I have no problem with a "Brothers" bill -- in fact, I think it is a great idea -- as long as we make PF and Henry the sponsors.

PackerFanatic · 07-23-2008, 10:08 AM

Well this is what Chubby said about it, I think if we write it up and make sure CR would approve, he can post it as soon as he gets home from work.

Quote:

I'd like to put forward a Brothers role, 1 dem and 1 repub both randomly chosen from the pool of non-wolf, non-bg, non-seer people. They have unlimited PM abilities. if one dies, the other dies.

I would like 1 centrist sponsor from each side of the aisle. Lathum, I'll need your help in lining up a repub centrist to co-support the bill with another one of our centrist congressmen.

I think that is pretty standard to previous brothers roles and should pass the courts.

chesapeake · 07-23-2008, 10:09 AM

I think we should take both sponsorships in our party. We earned an extra nod by taking the hit with the veto. The GOP will vote for the bill anyway.

PackerFanatic · 07-23-2008, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesapeake

I think we should take both sponsorships in our party. We earned an extra nod by taking the hit with the veto. The GOP will vote for the bill anyway.

I agree. And I think myself and Henry are good choices, as you said.

KWhit · 07-23-2008, 10:12 AM

And I want to be a sponsor of the new BG bill.

PackerFanatic · 07-23-2008, 10:13 AM

I think you and path, given your current polling status, would be good sponsors for the BG bill.

chesapeake · 07-23-2008, 10:21 AM

Communications Resulting in Amity and Prosperity Act>>
Sponsors: PackerFanatic and Henry296>>
WHEREAS, our country is faced with a security threat from within in the guise of the so-called "Wolf Party." and,
WHEREAS, honest communications between the major parties in the Congress is the greatest tool that can quash the Wolf menace.>>
BE IT ENACTED:>>
The roles of the Siblings are hereby created. The Siblings will consist of one member of each party, selected at random from among those who are not members of the Wolf Party and do not already have a special role as created by a previous Act of Congress.
The Siblings shall have the ability to communicate through the board’s private messaging system without constraint as long as the divine powers – Chief Rum and olliegirl - - are included on each message. Exact copies of the text of these messages may not be circulated to any other member, although the general contents may be shared at the discretion of each sibling.
Should one Sibling be removed from the game by a wolf party attack, both Siblings shall be removed from the game.

PackerFanatic · 07-23-2008, 10:24 AM

I was just about to write it up myself, heh. I like the sound of it.

chesapeake · 07-23-2008, 10:25 AM

Cleaned up version. Cut/paste didn't work so well

Communications Resulting in Amity and Prosperity Act

Sponsors: PackerFanatic and Henry296

WHEREAS, our country is faced with a security threat from within in the guise of the so-called "Wolf Party." and,
WHEREAS, honest communications between the major parties in the Congress is the greatest tool that can quash the Wolf menace.

BE IT ENACTED:

The roles of the Siblings are hereby created. The Siblings will consist of one member of each party, selected at random from among those who are not members of the Wolf Party and do not already have a special role as created by a previous Act of Congress.

The Siblings shall have the ability to communicate through the board’s private messaging system without constraint as long as the divine powers – Chief Rum and olliegirl -- are included on each message. Exact copies of the text of these messages may not be circulated to any other member, although the general contents may be shared at the discretion of each sibling.

Should one Sibling be removed from the game by a wolf party attack, both Siblings shall be removed from the game.

KWhit · 07-23-2008, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesapeake

Cleaned up version. Cut/paste didn't work so well

Communications Resulting in Amity and Prosperity Act

Sponsors: PackerFanatic and Henry296

WHEREAS, our country is faced with a security threat from within in the guise of the so-called "Wolf Party." and,
WHEREAS, honest communications between the major parties in the Congress is the greatest tool that can quash the Wolf menace.

BE IT ENACTED:

The roles of the Siblings are hereby created. The Siblings will consist of one member of each party, selected at random from among those who are not members of the Wolf Party and do not already have a special role as created by a previous Act of Congress.

The Siblings shall have the ability to communicate through the board’s private messaging system without constraint as long as the divine powers – Chief Rum and olliegirl -- are included on each message. Exact copies of the text of these messages may not be circulated to any other member, although the general contents may be shared at the discretion of each sibling.

Should one Sibling be removed from the game by a wolf party attack, both Siblings shall be removed from the game; however, if one Sibling is removed from Congress due to losing an election, the other shall remain in congress.

I added the bold.

chesapeake · 07-23-2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesapeake

Cleaned up version. Cut/paste didn't work so well

Communications Resulting in Amity and Prosperity Act

Sponsors: PackerFanatic and Henry296

WHEREAS, our country is faced with a security threat from within in the guise of the so-called "Wolf Party." and,
WHEREAS, honest communications between the major parties in the Congress is the greatest tool that can quash the Wolf menace.

BE IT ENACTED:

The roles of the Siblings are hereby created. The Siblings will consist of one member of the Democratic Party and one member of the Republican Party, selected at random from among those who are not members of the Wolf Party and do not already have a special role as created by a previous Act of Congress.

The Siblings shall have the ability to communicate through the board’s private messaging system without constraint as long as the divine powers – Chief Rum and oliegirl -- are included on each message. Exact copies of the text of these messages may not be circulated to any other member, although the general contents may be shared at the discretion of each sibling.

Should one Sibling be removed from the game by a wolf party attack, both Siblings shall be removed from the game.

I think we are covered with the existing text, but I have no objection to adding the redundancy to be extra-clear.

I made my own clarification to ensure that there wasn't an unwanted sibling.

KWhit · 07-23-2008, 10:43 AM

The real question we should be asking is, "Are the Siblings the best choice for today's bill?" (In addition to the BG bioll, of course).

I know Chubby wants to put forth something middle of the road, but before we get too locked into this bill, does anyone have any other ideas that might help us more vs. the wolves?

mccollins · 07-23-2008, 10:44 AM

I think this is a great bill because it will be SUPER popular with the country (most centrist role).

This should give PF some help with popularity - should we use all 3 supports on him? Should we spread them out among our 3 who need help getting re-elected since PF may not have a chance at the Pres.? It's a close call.

Should we use all 3 slurries on illiini999? You've got to think they'll slurry PF since they don't know which of our congressmen are behind in their polls.

chesapeake · 07-23-2008, 10:44 AM

Communications Resulting in Amity and Prosperity Act

Sponsors: PackerFanatic and Henry296

WHEREAS, our country is faced with a security threat from within in the guise of the so-called "Wolf Party." and,
WHEREAS, honest communications between the major parties in the Congress is the greatest tool that can quash the Wolf menace.

BE IT ENACTED:

The roles of the Siblings are hereby created. The Siblings will consist of one member of the Democratic Party and one member of the Republican Party, selected at random from among those who are not members of the Wolf Party and do not already have a special role as created by a previous Act of Congress.

The Siblings shall have the ability to communicate through the board’s private messaging system without constraint as long as the divine powers – Chief Rum and oliegirl -- are included on each message. Exact copies of the text of these messages may not be circulated to any other member, although the general contents may be shared at the discretion of each sibling.

Should one Sibling be removed from the game by a wolf party attack, both Siblings shall be removed from the game. However, if one Sibling is removed from Congress due to losing an election, the other shall not be affected.

Minor change to KWhit's language. The other way could have been construed to somehow to have kept both Siblings in Congress if, somehow, they had both lost their reelection races.

chesapeake · 07-23-2008, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

The real question we should be asking is, "Are the Siblings the best choice for today's bill?" (In addition to the BG bioll, of course).

I know Chubby wants to put forth something middle of the road, but before we get too locked into this bill, does anyone have any other ideas that might help us more vs. the wolves?

Chubby needs to post his thoughts. I like it in an election year with PF as a co-sponsor. It should be a nice boost to his appeal to moderate voters.

Do you have a suggestion as to a moderate role that would be more beneficial? I think Chubby is probably stuck with proposing something that stays in the middle of the spectrum.

PackerFanatic · 07-23-2008, 10:48 AM

I imagine they will slurry me as well, but it is up to the party who we want to support. I think even though I am behind, I still do have a chance in the poll, but I am willing to do what is best for the party and not just for me.

KWhit · 07-23-2008, 10:54 AM

I am just thinking about the usefulness of the role. I've always hated the siblings as a role, because really the only true benefit is to help create a circle of trust, but they can't really reveal that they're the siblings until pretty late in the game because the "one dies, both die" mechanic makes them prime targets for wolf kills.

And the PM 'benefit' has never really struck me as being that helpful.

Maybe something different but still centrist. Something to the effect of One democrat non-wolf and one republican non-wolf will know each other's identities. There is no PM function between them, and when one is killed or voted out of congress the other is unaffected.

What about something like that? (I have no idea if that would pass supreme court review, though, but we can run it by CR).

chesapeake · 07-23-2008, 10:56 AM

Once we are squared away on legislation, we can have a deeper discussion on support/slurry.

I may be dropping off of the radar just as our West Coast Democrats are coming on. My schedule tightens up between about 1:30 and 4.

PackerFanatic · 07-23-2008, 10:57 AM

Mine does too, today, unfortunately.

KWhit · 07-23-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

I am just thinking about the usefulness of the role. I've always hated the siblings as a role, because really the only true benefit is to help create a circle of trust, but they can't really reveal that they're the siblings until pretty late in the game because the "one dies, both die" mechanic makes them prime targets for wolf kills.

And the PM 'benefit' has never really struck me as being that helpful.

Maybe something different but still centrist. Something to the effect of One democrat non-wolf and one republican non-wolf will know each other's identities. There is no PM function between them, and when one is killed or voted out of congress the other is unaffected.

What about something like that? (I have no idea if that would pass supreme court review, though, but we can run it by CR).

Note, this is pretty much the Absolute Trust role in the Spawn game, so I'm hoping it would pass muster, but I don't know.

chesapeake · 07-23-2008, 11:00 AM

Big change to the President's veto power in the main thread just made by CR

07-22-2008, 09:55 PM	#352
henry296 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	As for a bill for tomorrow, what about another bodyguard role? __________________ "It's a great day for hockey" - "Badger" Bob Johnson

07-22-2008, 10:33 PM	#356
PackerFanatic Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	I don't think we had a bad plan today - we can't be scared to try and get bills through, the wolves are eventually going to get a rider in that we won't like, we can't just veto decent bills (or write purposely bad bills) __________________ Commissioner of the RNFL

07-22-2008, 10:36 PM	#358
PackerFanatic Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	Good point in the other thread, EF. __________________ Commissioner of the RNFL

07-23-2008, 08:52 AM	#368
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	The Most Popular Politicians Among Party Members 1. PackerFanatic 2. Chubby 3. mccollins 4. Lathum 5. chesapeake 6. henry296 7. EagleFan 8. KWhit 9. path12 Here are how the District Polling is shaping up KWhit (polls are tight) path12 (behind in polls) EagleFan (ahead in polls) PackerFanatic (will automatically be re-elected as presidential candidate) Chubby (comfortably ahead) henry296 (behind in polls) Lathum (ahead in polls) mccollins (comfortably ahead) chesapeake (ahead in polls) Note: There seems to be a concerted effort from somewhere to attack henry296's position in his district. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. Last edited by Chief Rum : 07-23-2008 at 09:03 AM.

07-23-2008, 08:54 AM	#371
PackerFanatic Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	Despite the popularity hit, I feel you made the right choice, Chubby. We have a chance to get the role today if we play it smart. __________________ Commissioner of the RNFL

07-22-2008, 10:05 PM	#353
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	I think we need to address National Healthcare and enact someone capable of healing those who have been attacked by a wolf. (I have not played in a game with a healer so I will defer to thoe who have for the possible stats for that role as I have no idea how it has been used in the past).

07-22-2008, 10:09 PM	#354
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	As for tomorrow, I will be at work from 6am-4pm so this is my plan for my bill if someone could help out to write it out and make sure we don't have any loopholes. I'd like to put forward a Brothers role, 1 dem and 1 repub both randomly chosen from the pool of non-wolf, non-bg, non-seer people. They have unlimited PM abilities. if one dies, the other dies. I would like 1 centrist sponsor from each side of the aisle. Lathum, I'll need your help in lining up a repub centrist to co-support the bill with another one of our centrist congressmen. I think that is pretty standard to previous brothers roles and should pass the courts. I'm certainly open to other ideas but it will already be 4pm by the time i get home from work tomorrow so I'll be relying on my party to help out

07-22-2008, 10:31 PM	#355
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	Bringing this in here as I don't want to take in party debagtes too much intothe open. See the last game I was in for proof why the BG would guard himself day one. If there is no known role for the BG to guard it makes little sense for him to no guard himself as he neds to guard the most valuable rle that he know of and that is him at that point. We seriously need to consider a better plan for tomorrow's 3 bills. I we veto this one we can pass two different BG bills tomorrow and if one is ridered we take the other. If we propose one bill and Chubby the other and the woves decide to rider the reps bill we in effect get two BG's.

07-22-2008, 10:35 PM	#357
chesapeake College Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arlington, VA	EF, I was thinking the same thing. Veto this BG bill to deny the wolves their rider. The BG position is important enough we can probably get enough GOP support to pass it twice tomorrow, allowing the wolves to take one down. It will give the GOP a boost in the presidential election that we may not be able to overcome in the near term, but there is plenty of game left to otherwise catch them.

07-22-2008, 10:36 PM	#359
chesapeake College Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arlington, VA	I thought today's plan was fine. We forced the wolves to pick between letting us have a seer or a BG. We come out well either way.

07-22-2008, 11:16 PM	#362
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	Sweet I have a bangin' hot wife. BOOYAH! Since I stand for integrity I will be signing both bills into law. I think it places us as a party at a disadvantage by vetoing the this as we need to focus on getting PackerFanatic elected President. I think that the BG is too important to sacrifice for the cunning clause. Fortunately these decisions will be out of my hands soon enough once a President is elected then it can be his call. I think people are letting a few wolves talk them into trying to get the bill vetoed and putting us a day behind in getting the strongest roles possible. I do think it was a Repub wolf move to attach the rider to our bill as well as try and craft the repub bill as too strong so it would not pass the supreme court. it's a tough decision but one I am willing to make for the good of our country and party.

07-22-2008, 11:22 PM	#363
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	Ideas for tomorrow, depending upon the veto/non-veto tonight. veto: Plan 2 BG bills with enough differences that it's not obvious which one the wolves will rider. Either the wolves rider one of the tswo and we get one through or they try to get tricky an rider the rep bill. If they rider the rep bill we veto that and get possibly two BG roles passed. This will give us a 2 bill day for very democratic roles and a veto of a rep bill so it's wn/win for us as democrats as well as for us as villagers. If they rider a BG we veto that ad still get one bill passed. If no veto: Look long and hard at Chubby's allegiance as the loss of a BG role for one night is greatly overshadowed by the chance to keep the wolves from getting roles. The positives of this veto completely outweigh the negatives.

07-22-2008, 11:25 PM	#364
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	Bad choice Chubby. There is no reason to not wait one day to get a BG when we can keep the wolves at bay without a role. I know who is getting my first lynch/wolf vote unless a wolf decides to step forward and reveal themselves.

07-22-2008, 11:49 PM	#365
chesapeake College Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arlington, VA	Very bad choice, Chubby. Veto the BG bill. You'll pull a lot of lynch votes otherwise.

07-23-2008, 06:00 AM	#366
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	I'm not worried about lynch votes, I'm worried about what is best for the village. The wolves knew they were putting me in a very tough spot today by tacking the rider onto the Democratic bill. I think we're hurting ourselves (the Party) by vetoing it as well as hurting PackerFan and myself locally. I think the wolves want us to waste time farting around and delaying getting the strong roles into the game.

07-23-2008, 08:52 AM	#369
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	Ugh. Just got caught up. Vetoing that bill really hurt our popularity didn't it? And I'm the least popular guy in Congress?! Yikes. I'll have to do something about that.

07-23-2008, 08:53 AM	#370
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	(Or second least popular guy from the post in this thread).

07-23-2008, 08:55 AM	#372
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Hold on, sorry, adjusting the numbers. I went off the wrong column in my spreahsheet. Apologies. Don't react yet. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

07-23-2008, 09:04 AM	#373
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	There you go. Sorry for the angst. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

07-23-2008, 09:15 AM	#374
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	Whew. At least I'm looking a little better in the polls.

07-23-2008, 09:33 AM	#375
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	I'm really disappointed in the way things turned out after yesterday. We had a kick-ass day, completely outperforming the Republicans, but because of that stupid rider on our bill, we're seriously behind and hurting in the polls. Chubby, I don't think you did anything wrong. You were getting a lot of people encouraging you to veto the bill. But we need to solidify our political presence today and even the score with the Republicans. The worst thing we could do would be to get 2-3 of us out of office due to a lost election.

07-23-2008, 09:33 AM	#376
chesapeake College Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arlington, VA	Morning snapshot from my perspective: Given the hit we took from the veto, I am skeptical that we can win the presidential election. I think our first priority should be reelection. of our more vulnerable members -- Path, Henry and KWhit. Chubby can help here. I think we put another BG bill out there. The same one is probably fine. KWhit and Path should be the sponsors. A question, though -- if it has to be vetoed again, it would be done by the new prez, right? In which case, the GOP takes the hit (assuming we lose), not us. If Chubby would have to do it again, we may have to rethink this. Maybe a Duke bill to be offered by Chubby, with the sponsors being Henry and PF. That should help shore up Henry's seat while giving PF a boost. Thoughts?

07-23-2008, 09:37 AM	#377
PackerFanatic Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	You are correct that the new Prez would be the one to veto anything tonight. Which could be good in evening us out or bad in pulling us farther away (although if I do win, I could see that as a big help) Chubby had talked last night about a Brothers bill that he wanted to introduce, I think that might be something to consider as well. __________________ Commissioner of the RNFL

07-23-2008, 09:39 AM	#378
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	I think the bigger hit on the veto was the fact that it was a democratic sponsored bill as well as a measure that is considered very democratic in the political spectrum. Even if a Repub pres vetoed today's BG bill, we'd still take a huge hit.

07-23-2008, 10:09 AM	#382
chesapeake College Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arlington, VA	I think we should take both sponsorships in our party. We earned an extra nod by taking the hit with the veto. The GOP will vote for the bill anyway.

07-23-2008, 10:12 AM	#384
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	And I want to be a sponsor of the new BG bill.

07-23-2008, 10:13 AM	#385
PackerFanatic Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	I think you and path, given your current polling status, would be good sponsors for the BG bill. __________________ Commissioner of the RNFL

07-23-2008, 10:21 AM	#386
chesapeake College Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arlington, VA	Communications Resulting in Amity and Prosperity Act>> Sponsors: PackerFanatic and Henry296>> WHEREAS, our country is faced with a security threat from within in the guise of the so-called "Wolf Party." and, WHEREAS, honest communications between the major parties in the Congress is the greatest tool that can quash the Wolf menace.>> BE IT ENACTED:>> The roles of the Siblings are hereby created. The Siblings will consist of one member of each party, selected at random from among those who are not members of the Wolf Party and do not already have a special role as created by a previous Act of Congress. The Siblings shall have the ability to communicate through the board’s private messaging system without constraint as long as the divine powers – Chief Rum and olliegirl - - are included on each message. Exact copies of the text of these messages may not be circulated to any other member, although the general contents may be shared at the discretion of each sibling. Should one Sibling be removed from the game by a wolf party attack, both Siblings shall be removed from the game.

07-23-2008, 10:24 AM	#387
PackerFanatic Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	I was just about to write it up myself, heh. I like the sound of it. __________________ Commissioner of the RNFL

07-23-2008, 10:25 AM	#388
chesapeake College Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arlington, VA	Cleaned up version. Cut/paste didn't work so well Communications Resulting in Amity and Prosperity Act Sponsors: PackerFanatic and Henry296 WHEREAS, our country is faced with a security threat from within in the guise of the so-called "Wolf Party." and, WHEREAS, honest communications between the major parties in the Congress is the greatest tool that can quash the Wolf menace. BE IT ENACTED: The roles of the Siblings are hereby created. The Siblings will consist of one member of each party, selected at random from among those who are not members of the Wolf Party and do not already have a special role as created by a previous Act of Congress. The Siblings shall have the ability to communicate through the board’s private messaging system without constraint as long as the divine powers – Chief Rum and olliegirl -- are included on each message. Exact copies of the text of these messages may not be circulated to any other member, although the general contents may be shared at the discretion of each sibling. Should one Sibling be removed from the game by a wolf party attack, both Siblings shall be removed from the game.

07-23-2008, 10:43 AM	#391
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	The real question we should be asking is, "Are the Siblings the best choice for today's bill?" (In addition to the BG bioll, of course). I know Chubby wants to put forth something middle of the road, but before we get too locked into this bill, does anyone have any other ideas that might help us more vs. the wolves?

07-23-2008, 10:44 AM	#392
mccollins College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Nicholasville, KY	I think this is a great bill because it will be SUPER popular with the country (most centrist role). This should give PF some help with popularity - should we use all 3 supports on him? Should we spread them out among our 3 who need help getting re-elected since PF may not have a chance at the Pres.? It's a close call. Should we use all 3 slurries on illiini999? You've got to think they'll slurry PF since they don't know which of our congressmen are behind in their polls.

07-23-2008, 10:44 AM	#393
chesapeake College Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arlington, VA	Communications Resulting in Amity and Prosperity Act Sponsors: PackerFanatic and Henry296 WHEREAS, our country is faced with a security threat from within in the guise of the so-called "Wolf Party." and, WHEREAS, honest communications between the major parties in the Congress is the greatest tool that can quash the Wolf menace. BE IT ENACTED: The roles of the Siblings are hereby created. The Siblings will consist of one member of the Democratic Party and one member of the Republican Party, selected at random from among those who are not members of the Wolf Party and do not already have a special role as created by a previous Act of Congress. The Siblings shall have the ability to communicate through the board’s private messaging system without constraint as long as the divine powers – Chief Rum and oliegirl -- are included on each message. Exact copies of the text of these messages may not be circulated to any other member, although the general contents may be shared at the discretion of each sibling. Should one Sibling be removed from the game by a wolf party attack, both Siblings shall be removed from the game. However, if one Sibling is removed from Congress due to losing an election, the other shall not be affected. Minor change to KWhit's language. The other way could have been construed to somehow to have kept both Siblings in Congress if, somehow, they had both lost their reelection races.

07-23-2008, 10:48 AM	#395
PackerFanatic Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	I imagine they will slurry me as well, but it is up to the party who we want to support. I think even though I am behind, I still do have a chance in the poll, but I am willing to do what is best for the party and not just for me. __________________ Commissioner of the RNFL

07-23-2008, 10:54 AM	#396
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	I am just thinking about the usefulness of the role. I've always hated the siblings as a role, because really the only true benefit is to help create a circle of trust, but they can't really reveal that they're the siblings until pretty late in the game because the "one dies, both die" mechanic makes them prime targets for wolf kills. And the PM 'benefit' has never really struck me as being that helpful. Maybe something different but still centrist. Something to the effect of One democrat non-wolf and one republican non-wolf will know each other's identities. There is no PM function between them, and when one is killed or voted out of congress the other is unaffected. What about something like that? (I have no idea if that would pass supreme court review, though, but we can run it by CR).