NFL Week 17

[molson]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Because they have won so many in the past decade?

No, because Hulk Hogan's on board now.

[Crapshoot]

I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

Aha the NFL - a beacon of progressive thought, what with this and the Kerry Rhodes bit.

[cuervo72]

I assumed he always has been because he's a Real American.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I assumed he always has been because he's a Real American.

WELL PLAYED SIR!!

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by molson

No, because Hulk Hogan's on board now.

So a wrestler who is living off of his past giving a belt to team doing the same?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Matthean

So a wrestler who is living off of his past giving a belt to team doing the same?

I thought everyone was sick of the Patriots because they "win all the time".

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

Aha the NFL - a beacon of progressive thought, what with this and the Kerry Rhodes bit.

Considering the "bigot" in that story was supposedly the only in house candidate for the head coaching role, I sense that this candidate will no longer be considered (even if he is a good coach, can you imagine the PR hit the Vikings would take if they seriously considered him, or even hired him?)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Considering the "bigot" in that story was supposedly the only in house candidate for the head coaching role, I sense that this candidate will no longer be considered (even if he is a good coach, can you imagine the PR hit the Vikings would take if they seriously considered him, or even hired him?)

Kluwe got cut because he made himself a liability, plain & simple. No different than what any of the rest of us would encounter on our jobs. That he's playing the victim here is standard behavior for his "progressive" ilk however.

[molson]

The accusations against the one coach are troubling, but if Kluwe's goal here was to make teams more reluctant to sign either openly gay players, or players with very public claimed causes, then I think he's accomplishing that. Edit: I'm sure there's homophobic coaches and team staff in the NFL, but I bet there's even more who would just prefer their players have a more limited public persona when it comes to activism and self-promotion. Especially when it comes to the borderline/special teams guys.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Kluwe got cut because he made himself a liability, plain & simple. No different than what any of the rest of us would encounter on our jobs. That he's playing the victim here is standard behavior for his "progressive" ilk however.

Well, he made himself a liability to the people who make the actual personnel decisions. But it seems like he had the support of the guy who paid his (and their) checks. Do you think Wolf may have initially not thought much of his subordinates' decision to get rid of a punter, but is feeling different about that today?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

Aha the NFL - a beacon of progressive thought, what with this and the Kerry Rhodes bit.

The part of his story that makes no sense is:

Originally Posted by Chris Kluwe

Throughout the months of September, October, and November, Minnesota Vikings special-teams coordinator Mike Priefer would use homophobic language in my presence. He had not done so during minicamps or fall camp that year, nor had he done so during the 2011 season

What changed? Does he think Priefer was saying this because Kluwe was speaking out? If Priefer was really a bigot, wouldn't Kluwe have heard some of these comments before?

Some piece of this story (surprise, surprise, when we only get one side) is missing.

[chadritt]

It absolutely sounds like he was doing it because Kluwe had spoken out, to make it very clear what he thought of him and his cause.

[chadritt]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Kluwe got cut because he made himself a liability, plain & simple. No different than what any of the rest of us would encounter on our jobs. That he's playing the victim here is standard behavior for his "progressive" ilk however.

How is he more of a liability than a guy with a DWI, spousal abuse, or dog fighting ring history? Those guys get to keep their jobs but someone who's pro gay marriage doesn't? Hell, id be more concerned with Clowneys history of speeding than I would Kluwes outspokenness since that can easily kill people but Im pretty sure he'll still get drafted.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

The part of his story that makes no sense is:



What changed? Does he think Priefer was saying this because Kluwe was speaking out? If Priefer was really a bigot, wouldn't Kluwe have heard some of these comments before?

Some piece of this story (surprise, surprise, when we only get one side) is missing.

Why doesn't that make sense? He didn't mention it before because it never came up in Kluwe's presence before, but after he heard Kluwe's stance he made it a point to say it in Kluwe's presence to underline his own stance.

Sounds like standard passive-aggressive dipshit behavior to me.

[molson]

Originally Posted by chadritt

How is he more of a liability than a guy with a DWI, spousal abuse, or dog fighting ring history? Those guys get to keep their jobs but someone who's pro gay marriage doesn't? Hell, id be more concerned with Clowneys history of speeding than I would Kluwes outspokenness since that can easily kill people but Im pretty sure he'll still get drafted.

If Clowney decides he's going to become an an outspoken and self-promoting gay rights activist, or gay rights opponent, or a Israel-supporter, or an Israel-detractor, he's still going to get drafted (though I bet his coaches would still try to reel him in some, regardless of what the view is). A punter is going to have less leeway, with stuff like this or for DUIs.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by chadritt

How is he more of a liability than a guy with a DWI, spousal abuse, or dog fighting ring history? Those guys get to keep their jobs but someone who's pro gay marriage doesn't? Hell, id be more concerned with Clowneys history of speeding than I would Kluwes outspokenness since that can easily kill people but Im pretty sure he'll still get drafted.

You didn't actually compare a marginal/average punter to a guy that's supposedly one of the biggest impact defensive players in years ... did you?
How easily you can be replaced does make a difference in outcomes, no matter how much some people (me included) wish it might not matter.

FWIW, I wouldn't likely want any of those other bastards you mentioned on my team either most likely (I hope the Eagles never win another game as long as they're owned by the SOB's who saw fit to give a certain p.o.s. QB a job).

[albionmoonlight]

Frazier and Spielman (sp?) have enough of a track record that they will succeed or fail with future employment based on their records. But for this random special teams coach, this might end up as a real problem.

Just like a team isn't going to sign a punter who is more trouble than he is worth, a team is less likely to take a chance on one of the hundreds of unproven coaching candidates who might bring some of this PR bullshit with him.

If Kluwe's goal was to personally hurt this one guy, I think that there's a decent chance he managed to do it.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by chadritt

How is he more of a liability than a guy with a DWI, spousal abuse, or dog fighting ring history? Those guys get to keep their jobs but someone who's pro gay marriage doesn't? Hell, id be more concerned with Clowneys history of speeding than I would Kluwes outspokenness since that can easily kill people but Im pretty sure he'll still get drafted.

Instead of speaking out in support of basic human rights he should have just been a good citizen by pulling a gun on someone and choking the shit out of his wife. Then he wouldn't have been a liability and the team could have kept him around.

[larrymcg421]

I was actually afraid of coming to FOFC when I heard about this story and my fears were confirmed.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by chadritt

How is he more of a liability than a guy with a DWI, spousal abuse, or dog fighting ring history? Those guys get to keep their jobs but someone who's pro gay marriage doesn't? Hell, id be more concerned with Clowneys history of speeding than I would Kluwes outspokenness since that can easily kill people but Im pretty sure he'll still get drafted.

While I don't agree with the answer, the answer to your question is pretty obvious isn't it? He's a punter and from what I can tell wasn't very good at it either. Talent.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I hope the Eagles never win another game as long as they're owned by the SOB's who saw fit to give a certain p.o.s. QB a job.

Something else we agree on.

[Logan]

So what sort of locker room transgressions can "just a punter" be allowed to comment on before he's speaking too much?

[BillJasper]

I think we can all agree that Kluwe will never play in the NFL again.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

So what sort of locker room transgressions can "just a punter" be allowed to comment on before he's speaking too much?

They can comment on whatever they want. I don't believe he's the only player in the entire NFL that is pro gay-marriage, and I'm pretty sure he's not the only one who has ever expressed that view. Isn't it possible that he supports a good cause and is ALSO a fringe player and self-promoting goofball who likes to antagonize those around him to the point of distracting the team? Or is just that once you identify yourself as "pro gay marriage", no team may can ever morally cut you?

Edit: Or is really just all about how popular the opinion is? I think we're up to 58% in support of gay marriage and 38% opposed in the U.S. I'm sure there'd be celebration here if a fringe player who got semi-twitter famous for opposing gay marriage got cut. Because of the content of the opinion.

[chadritt]

Well the coaches probably shouldn't talk about moving all homosexuals to an island and nuking it form orbit. I feel like that deserves at least as much punishment as being pro gay rights.

[Julio Riddols]

He was a solid punter, and someone who wanted to use his stature to promote a worthy cause that benefits many and hurts none. He was expendable because he was a solid punter, not a great one.. But he probably would have been let go if he was a good to great punter as well. For whatever reason, teams seem to think it is detrimental to have any kind of publicity, even when it is for a good thing.. Unless the publicity comes from their success as a team. Personally I have a hard time seeing the punter as a distraction to any team, even if he was a satanic, chicken sacrificing spoon bender who believed in witchcraft and hosted occult gatherings on days off.

[Julio Riddols]

Like Pedro Cerrano and Jobu.

[molson]

He did say something to ESPN which I'm sure is true of the NFL, as it is most large organizations, whether they be private or government:

"The NFL has become such a corporate mindset. They want to make sure there's no distractions anywhere, ever. In the ideal NFL world, you show up to play on Sundays, and that's it -- they take you out of your box and put you back in. Until we get past the idea that money is the overwhelming influence and you can't live your life at the same time, people will view activism as a distraction."

It sounds like the coaches were also annoyed about his "Vote Ray Guy" jersey patch. Coaches don't like free spirits. Kluwe appears to have a very carefully orchestrated disclosure strategy with this stuff, accompanied by some kind of exclusive deal with Deadspin, who published this on the Thursday before the playoffs start. That was more important to him than trying to go to human resources or legal with any allegations of inappropriate conduct by coaches.

Maybe it's worth fighting against that kind of mindset, but NFL player is not the only grown-up job where your employer would prefer you not be all over the news for stuff unrelated to your job. You have different degrees of slack with that stuff depending on how visible your job is and how corporate and rigid the organization is.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Instead of speaking out in support of basic human rights he should have just been a good citizen by pulling a gun on someone and choking the shit out of his wife. Then he wouldn't have been a liability and the team could have kept him around.

"". He doesn't deserve a job for his opinions: but this side of the story suggests he lost his job Because of those opinions, which in this case are for basic decency towards other human beings. That's the troubling part.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

"". He doesn't deserve a job for his opinions: but this side of the story suggests he lost his job Because of those opinions, which in this case are for basic decency towards other human beings. That's the troubling part.

{cough}

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Logan

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter

Extension for Lions QB Matthew Stafford came in at $17.6 million per year avg. Bears QB Jay Cutler's 7-yr deal figures to be slightly north.

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Since it's coming from Schefter, that means it's quite a bit south of that number.

According to Rapaport of NFL.com, 7 years, $126 million ($18MM average), $54 million guaranteed.

Schefter laughs at you!

[Coffee Warlord]

There's something about sun shining on dog's asses.

[Julio Riddols]

That seems like a shit ton of money for a QB who has seemingly always struggled to win consistently. McCown outplayed him by a mile this season. Makes me wonder what the hell Cinci is going to have to give Dalton.

[larrymcg421]

The good thing for Chris Kluwe is that Ted Cruz, Bobby Jindal, and Sarah Palin will totally have his back on this since they believe in free speech and being able to speak your mind without losing your job.

[Patriots12]

On Saturday, I have KC winning because Indianapolis is too one-dimensional and chiefs are more rested, healthy. I have Philly beating New Orleans because Philly has the most balanced offense in the NFL and New Orleans is not that good away from their dome.

On Sunday I have the Bengals winning because their defense is great enough to pressure Phillip Rivers and Dalton will light up San Diego's porous pass defense. I think San Francisco will beat Green Bay because their ground game will wear out the packers and a healthy front seven will take advantage of Green Bay's awful offensive line and get to Rodgers. As a Patriot fan, go Chargers because Cincinnati scares me more than KC, IND.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Patriots12

On Saturday, I have KC winning because Indianapolis is too one-dimensional and chiefs are more rested, healthy. I have Philly beating New Orleans because Philly has the most balanced offense in the NFL and New Orleans is not that good away from their dome.

On Sunday I have the Bengals winning because their defense is great enough to pressure Phillip Rivers and Dalton will light up San Diego's porous pass defense. I think San Francisco will beat Green Bay because their ground game will wear out the packers and a healthy front seven will take advantage of Green Bay's awful offensive line and get to Rodgers. As a Patriot fan, go Chargers because Cincinnati scares me more than KC, IND.

I am with you until the last one. GB is most definitely not as good of a team as SF--but the Niners aren't as strong as they were last year, and they are going 2000 miles east, from a mild SF Bay Area to what weatehr reports are stating will be a snowy and cold Lambeau. Plus, Rodgers and Cobb are both back.

I think GB pulls off the upset.

[BillJasper]

I think all four home teams win this weekend.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I am with you until the last one. GB is most definitely not as good of a team as SF--but the Niners aren't as strong as they were last year, and they are going 2000 miles east, from a mild SF Bay Area to what weatehr reports are stating will be a snowy and cold Lambeau. Plus, Rodgers and Cobb are both back.

I think GB pulls off the upset.

It won't be snowing here. It'll be too fucking COLD for that.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

It won't be snowing here. It'll be too fucking COLD for that.

Lol... that doesn't really change my opinion of how this game plays out

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

That seems like a shit ton of money for a QB who has seemingly always struggled to win consistently. McCown outplayed him by a mile this season. Makes me wonder what the hell Cinci is going to have to give Dalton.

I thought the exact same thing today when I saw what Cutler was getting. Dalton and Cutler have very similar QB ratings. The Bengals better pony up for Dalton and Green this offseason and not let it get to next offseason.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

It won't be snowing here. It'll be too fucking COLD for that.

Come to Buffalo..Its too fucking COLD to be SNOWING yet we had a lake effect storm here today

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

That seems like a shit ton of money for a QB who has seemingly always struggled to win consistently. McCown outplayed him by a mile this season. Makes me wonder what the hell Cinci is going to have to give Dalton.

McCown certainly didn't outplay Cutler by a mile this year. They were fairly comparable and McCown had a hell of a lot of interception drops that weren't going to continue.

DVOA had McCown 4 and Cutler 13 and QBR had Cutler 8 and McCown 1. Project Cutler's play over a full season and he would have been around 13th in DYAR (which would put him in the Stafford, Luck, Roethlisberger range).

[gstelmack]

The NFL's big problem | FOX Sports on MSN

Price yourself so it's mostly corporate folks, and they don't want to be bothered by cold / weather, and this is what you get...

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I thought everyone was sick of the Patriots because they "win all the time".

Yes, they have had an amazing run but not winning the title only goes so far.

[Patriots12]

Chief rum: most disagree on that game it is the toughest to pick.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Remember when you could get $10 tickets? Sell the remaining tix for $10 each & see how long they last.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You didn't actually compare a marginal/average punter to a guy that's supposedly one of the biggest impact defensive players in years ... did you?
How easily you can be replaced does make a difference in outcomes, no matter how much some people (me included) wish it might not matter.

FWIW, I wouldn't likely want any of those other bastards you mentioned on my team either most likely (I hope the Eagles never win another game as long as they're owned by the SOB's who saw fit to give a certain p.o.s. QB a job).

While I can't stand Vick and wish the Eagles didn't sign him I must say... It must be nice to be as perfect as Jim and never have done anything wrong.

I don't want to live in his world where no one is given a second chance...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

While I can't stand Vick and wish the Eagles didn't sign him I must say... It must be nice to be as perfect as Jim and never have done anything wrong. I don't want to live in his world where no one is given a second chance...

Lurie is as vile a character as Vick at this point afaic , I have nothing left for him other than sincere wishes for exceptionally extreme woe.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Lurie is as vile a character as Vick at this point afaic , I have nothing left for him other than sincere wishes for exceptionally extreme woe.

For giving someone a second chance? You are the vile character in all of this.... what a POS you are.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

For giving someone a second chance? You are the vile character in all of this.... what a POS you are.

You're entitled to that opinion, I'm entitled to mine.

Some things are beyond the notion of "a second chance", at least on this mortal coil. The only thing I ever want to hear about Vick is his obituary, Once Lurie decided that he was desperate enough to try to win at any cost, he reached the same level.

I hope both of 'em go the same way those dogs did. Maybe that's a character flaw {shrug} if so then I'll own it.

God is in the forgiving business and I hope both of them work it out with Him.

I'm not God.

edit to add: And I don't even particularly like dogs.