Werewolf L Kate Beckinsale - day 7, deadline Thursday 10pm Eastern Time

[JHandley]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I still don't see the harm in waiting a day to see if anyone else has a similar expierience.

Or waiting to see if he has additional transformation tonight. I'm on board with this idea.

Originally Posted by KWhit

I'm going to be in and out today, but just in case I can't get another vote out there:

VOTE NEON CHAOS

Since he didn't vote yesterday.

If nothing else comes up from now until 5 PST, this is going to be my vote as well. I can't recall who said it, but earlier someone mentioned the idea that the best vote is for a wolf, and the second best is for a villager who offers us nothing.

[Alan T]

Reasons to not vote for me:

1) It might not be and probably isn't a "slow conversion" where I am hinted off several days ahead of time?
2) It most likely was some other unmentioned role just like we have seen many many times before that inhibit's another player's activity for the night.
3) Even if the slim possibility that it is some kind of slow conversion attempt, in games with slow conversions, there is usually some kind of doctor role to "cure" the attempt before it occurs. Thus if that is indeed the case here, whoever has that type of role has the ability to try to "cure" me even if that happens to be the case here.
4) At least one person out there now knows that I at least was not responsible for JE's death last night. While that doesn't clear me of being a wolf, it means that less likely I am one to that person's perspective.
5) Even if I am being converted even though thats unlikely, since I am a good guy right now, I have laid out the road map for our seers to know what to expect with me and plan accordingly.


Reasons to not listen to Barkeep:

1) He's already been playing very anti-charasteristic for himself this game. He usually is pro-lynch, this game he is anti-lynch. He is usually pro-reveal information, this game he is trying to punish people for revealing stuff.
2) Instead of looking for someone who currently is evil, Barkeep is trying to point you to someone who currently isn't evil, who may never turn evil, and who absolutely wasn't involved in JE's death last night.

Basically listen to Barkeep and you waste a day, lynch a villager and lose even more time to the wolves.

If you listen to me, you can continue to focus on who the wolves may be, the seers have the ability to keep an eye on me and scan me at an appropriate time, and you can wait and see what else happens in future nights.

[JHandley]

Originally Posted by Lathum

sigh....

we may as well have lynched Antmeister yesterday using the logic being employed today against Neon Chaos.

VOTE BARKEEP

I agree we should have lynched Antmeister or Neon yesterday. But we didn't, so to me we're just making up for what should have happened yesterday.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Lathum

right now I am leaning towards you.

You made what I consider an odd vote on Neon Chaos, then jumped to Alan, then claimed Kwhits actions were wolflike, seems like you are creating some confusion.

I didn't actually mean KWhit was wolfish, simply trying to point out the flaw in his thinking.

I don't think I have a fight in me so if people want to go after me, it'll likely be a successful though fruitless effort.

[Barkeep49]

Alan why did you waste your vote yesterday? You seemed to be in favor of lynching yet you didn't vote for someone who could have been lynched with a vote switch? My vote is on you based on precaution. But your strange deadline vote hasn't recieved any real scrutiny.

Also: I have explained why I didn't think there should be a Day 1 lynch. I am not pro-role reveal in games where not everyone has a role. Only in games where everyone has a role (or in your game, an item).

[Gonzo]

Vote Alan T

Let's be serious here. If someone blacks out after dinner and doesn't remember anything they did during the night, then wakes up in bed the next morning, it's screaming Lycanthorpe at me. Does anyone remember the Futurama episode where Bender turns into the Werecar? It's a lot like that. In traditional mythology, werewolves have no memories of what they did at all during transformation.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Alan why did you waste your vote yesterday? You seemed to be in favor of lynching yet you didn't vote for someone who could have been lynched with a vote switch? My vote is on you based on precaution. But your strange deadline vote hasn't recieved any real scrutiny.

Also: I have explained why I didn't think there should be a Day 1 lynch. I am not pro-role reveal in games where not everyone has a role. Only in games where everyone has a role (or in your game, an item).

Still trying to mislead people? Please show me any place I could have voted that would have changed the outcome.

Looks like gonso is your wolf buddy too

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Vote Alan T

Let's be serious here. If someone blacks out after dinner and doesn't remember anything they did during the night, then wakes up in bed the next morning, it's screaming Lycanthorpe at me. Does anyone remember the Futurama episode where Bender turns into the Werecar? It's a lot like that. In traditional mythology, werewolves have no memories of what they did at all during transformation.

Outstanding, then like I said, a seer can scan me and verify that.

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Outstanding, then like I said, a seer can scan me and verify that.

Isn't that wasting a scan on someone who in all probability is turning into a wolf and who could easily be lynched today? It would be far better to use the scan on an unknown quantity (like me ).

[JHandley]

I can't wrap my head around the arguement that we shouldn't lynch on day 1 because we might kill a villager but we should kill Alan, because "something" happened to him last night.

We are no where. There's 3 villagers who know next to nothing, and tehy can't say a damn thing. There's (so far) one player who knows a trace more than nothing. The rest of us are bumbling about in the dark, still.

I think floating ideas are good, but a vote this early is exactly like a day 1 vote. We are exactly where we were yesterday, but suddenly Gonzo is confident.

[JHandley]

Actually, voting for Alan is worse than voting for a blank villager yesterday. At least Alan knows something. Clearly he's got a target on his back now, and if he or his theories start to go sideways, then he's toast. Killing Neon or Ant, neither of which have added anything remotely constructive, limits our range of possible wolves.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Isn't that wasting a scan on someone who in all probability is turning into a wolf and who could easily be lynched today? It would be far better to use the scan on an unknown quantity (like me ).

No, because I am good, and I likely will stay good. But you and Barkeep instead of focusing on trying to find the people who are bad, you want to point people at me.

So if the only way you will believe me is for people to scan me, then so be it. But to lynch me is not only foolish, its reckless.

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

No, because I am good, and I likely will stay good. But you and Barkeep instead of focusing on trying to find the people who are bad, you want to point people at me.

So if the only way you will believe me is for people to scan me, then so be it. But to lynch me is not only foolish, its reckless.

Your logic is "I'm good, it would be stupid to lynch me"?

I feel that we should lynch you because you're likely turning into a werewolf, even if you're unaware of it.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Your logic is "I'm good, it would be stupid to lynch me"?

I feel that we should lynch you because you're likely turning into a werewolf, even if you're unaware of it.

You know this because you are the mad scientist I presume?

I don't think it had anything to do with conversion, and even if it did, people can scan me in another day or two to make sure.

At least you were nice enough to let us know you were bad though to make today's lynch easy.

[JHandley]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Your logic is "I'm good, it would be stupid to lynch me"?

I feel that we should lynch you because you're likely turning into a werewolf, even if you're unaware of it.

Under that logic, shouldn't we have lynched someone yesterday because they could be turning into a werewolf?

Killing Alan gains us nothing but getting rid of someone who might have information.

[JHandley]

We are all potential werewolves.

[JHandley]

Triple Dola

Bear in mind, I'm not completely disagreeing with your assertion that Alan is likely turning into a werewolf. He's clearly a target. If he starts to clam up, we whack him, if he starts to act inconsistent, we whack him. He's gotta be on his toes.

Killing him now, while he's still talking and putting out information makes less sense than killing a random villager which is what you were so adamantly opposed to yesterday. I think there are better options today than Alan.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by JHandley

Triple Dola

Bear in mind, I'm not completely disagreeing with your assertion that Alan is likely turning into a werewolf. He's clearly a target. If he starts to clam up, we whack him, if he starts to act inconsistent, we whack him. He's gotta be on his toes.

Killing him now, while he's still talking and putting out information makes less sense than killing a random villager which is what you were so adamantly opposed to yesterday. I think there are better options today than Alan.

I'd like to think that I'm good enough of a player that if I did turn into a WW that i would play the same way as I am currently. However that said, the line that I'm turning into a WW is exactly what the wolves want you to think.

IF YOU VOTE FOR ME, YOU DON'T KILL A WOLF.

So of course they want me dead today. All I'm saying is the message that i got. I fully expect to have a target on my head because of it. I have no problems with people scanning me because I'm good and want us to win.

So which would everyone rather do.. Vote for someone who IS NOT a Wolf, and who might or might not end up one... Or try to find someone who is a wolf today?

Of course the wolves will be trying to push the vote on me today, because it means you aren't looking at them. which is exactly what they want.

I for one refuse to go down without a fight, so I'll work until I no longer am alive to try to find a wolf, I guess we will see if there are many others in this village who are as interested as I am to find a wolf, or if most of you are more interested in trying to just avoid being lynched just like the wolves.

[Barkeep49]

Alan, I'm frankly amazed at your play. I can understand your thinking Gonso or I are wolves, but to come out so fiercely against both of us is just making it look like you're:
1. Either a wolf and are worried so you're aggressively defending yourself
2. Letting votes against you bother you more than they should

[cartman]

wow, a lot to chew through since last night. I was out until 5 am with my cousin for his birthday, am just now starting to feel normal. Let me parse these last couple of pages and getback up to speed.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Alan, I'm frankly amazed at your play. I can understand your thinking Gonso or I are wolves, but to come out so fiercely against both of us is just making it look like you're:
1. Either a wolf and are worried so you're aggressively defending yourself
2. Letting votes against you bother you more than they should

I've always , always, always made sure to argue my case when I'm under scrutiny. This is true when I am a good guy, this is true when I am a bad guy. You of all people should know that I always make sure to state my case and never go down without a fight.

I will never self vote, I will never just give up, I play the game to try to win. And lynching me will not accomplish that here for the good guys. I am suprised you don't remember every other time I've been under fire people exclaiming the same thing you just did.

As for letting votes bother me more than they should, its not the votes that bother me as much as the people who would blindly follow them onto a bandwagon to either A) Try to hide in a vote while killing a villager if they are a wolf, or B) To go with the flow and not actually try to make a individual decision.

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

IF YOU VOTE FOR ME, YOU DON'T KILL A WOLF.

I never understand that play. Anyone could say the same thing, it doesn't mean anything.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Still trying to mislead people? Please show me any place I could have voted that would have changed the outcome.

Looks like gonso is your wolf buddy too

If you had voted for JE it would have been:

8 No lynch (including Neon's vote)
7 JE

You could have voted even at 8:55 if you'd wanted, giving someone a last minute chance to go over. Instead you voted at the last minute, throwing away your vote. Why CR? You didn't answer.

What if you were scanned last night and know it? Your play, wanting to know who it was that did it to you, is entirely consistent with trying to out a seer. Now you go hard after those who are voting for you because you know one of us (not me alas) is the seer. Your play would be consistent with that as well.

I don't think that's as likely as your being knocked out for evil purposes last night, but your aggressive/defensive play today makes me think you're a wolf flushing out a seer.

[Barkeep49]

Alan: I'm not surprised you're defending yourself. What is surprising is the idea that anyone who votes for you is part of a wolf plot. I understood it better when you were just going after me for it. Now you've got Gonso int he same category. Seems paranoid to me. My last post suggests an explanation, even if I think the more likely version is something.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

If you had voted for JE it would have been:

8 No lynch (including Neon's vote)
7 JE

You could have voted even at 8:55 if you'd wanted, giving someone a last minute chance to go over. Instead you voted at the last minute, throwing away your vote. Why CR? You didn't answer.

What if you were scanned last night and know it? Your play, wanting to know who it was that did it to you, is entirely consistent with trying to out a seer. Now you go hard after those who are voting for you because you know one of us (not me alas) is the seer. Your play would be consistent with that as well.

I don't think that's as likely as your being knocked out for evil purposes last night, but your aggressive/defensive play today makes me think you're a wolf flushing out a seer.

First of all, you either didn't do a good job reading the thread last night, or you are still trying to mislead people.

I brought up the fact that I could vote JE if someone else switches well before 8:55, yet no one did. Second, if I did, and someone else switched, it would have been tied and still mean NO LYNCH. So even though I talked about people switching, no one did and it required 2 people in addition to me to lynch him.

Third, I did explain my Chief Rum vote last night.

I think its far more likely that you constantly mislead people, and tell flat out mistruths is more of a reflection on you than on me.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

I never understand that play. Anyone could say the same thing, it doesn't mean anything.

Sure it means things. Often in games there are people who can take a sentence and read it for truth. I fully welcome anyone with that type of ability to do so as well.

There is alot of power in what people say. most people try to never tell lies either as villager or wolves if possible, because its too easy to be caught up in a lie.

The fact I am being very out front and open just restates the fact that I am human.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Alan: I'm not surprised you're defending yourself. What is surprising is the idea that anyone who votes for you is part of a wolf plot. I understood it better when you were just going after me for it. Now you've got Gonso int he same category. Seems paranoid to me. My last post suggests an explanation, even if I think the more likely version is something.

Well in fact I do think that people who go after me with a very lousy reason, and stating things that aren't true do have some alterior motive.

I guess I luckily have my vote to state who I think is a wolf at some point today.

I can't think of many reasons why you would want to vote for a Good guy unless you are bad, so you being a wolf is definitly up there in top reasons in my mind right now.

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean everyone isn't out to get me.

[Barkeep49]

How is using your night PM and trying to interpret it, something you can do no better than us, a lousy reason?

[Barkeep49]

I did see that you asked for someone to switch. Why not take the lead and do it yourself? If someone had switched from no Lynch onto JE that would have done the lynch. Where did you explain your vote for CR? When I went back to look to make sure I remembered things right your post voting for him just said "la la la"

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

The fact I am being very out front and open just restates the fact that I am human.

It restates the fact that you think you are human. If the Mad Scientist can slow-convert people to being a wolf, you wouldn't know you are being turned into one.

Saying "I'm a villager" doesn't instantly mean you are a villager.

[tanglewood]

I think that the Alan T revelation is more likely a bad thing for us than a good thing. I don't really see how someone waking up in the morning with no memory of the previous night is a good thing to happen. I agree that it is a strong possibility that Alan T has been infected somehow and is in the process of turning into a wolf, even unknowingly.

However, the player I am most worried about currently is Barkeep. He was anti-lynch yesterday which I have never seen him propose before and is acting generally out of character with odd vote choices.

[tanglewood]

Barkeep, why are you attacking Alan T for not earnestly trying to make a lynch happen when you were so anti-lynch yesterday anyway?

Either you believe that a lynch yesterday was bad for the village, so Alan T actually helped the village even if for the wrong reasons. Or you believe that a lynch would have been good, which explains attacking Alan, but doesn't explain why you voted for no lynch and pushed it so heavily.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I did see that you asked for someone to switch. Why not take the lead and do it yourself? If someone had switched from no Lynch onto JE that would have done the lynch. Where did you explain your vote for CR? When I went back to look to make sure I remembered things right your post voting for him just said "la la la"

Now you have to be flat out lying. You're digging a big hole for you. Not only was the below quote posted last night, there was dialog back and forth about it. So you expect us to believe that you analyzed all of the posts last night, yet didn't see Chief commenting about my vote at the deadline, then my response below, then his response to that, then my response back, then his response back???

You are full of it.

Originally Posted by Alan T

My vote anywhere wouldn't have changed anything. So it was a statement vote.

Basically looked at people who voted where they did, and I think as normal the wolves wouldn't be consolidated in one spot. So out of the people who voted JE, i tried to figure which was the most "wolfish" to me. So I picked you.

Was just a day 1 vote, and doubt I'll pursue it tommorrow. Just needed to go somewhere with it, and it was either going to be you or Neon for not showing up.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Barkeep, why are you attacking Alan T for not earnestly trying to make a lynch happen when you were so anti-lynch yesterday anyway?

Either you believe that a lynch yesterday was bad for the village, so Alan T actually helped the village even if for the wrong reasons. Or you believe that a lynch would have been good, which explains attacking Alan, but doesn't explain why you voted for no lynch and pushed it so heavily.

Either you were in favor of lynch you weren't. I wasn't. If you were in favor of a lynch, which Alan said he was leaning against all day before finally deciding to vote for someone, he should have voted for JE. That is the action consistent with lynching someone, since there was a chance for JE to be lynched. Alan's vote promoted not lynching someone, while not voting no lynch. Seems like he was trying to have it both ways. That is what I am criticising him about, as his actions weren't consistent with someone on either side of the debate, at that point in time.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Alan T

My vote anywhere wouldn't have changed anything. So it was a statement vote.

Basically looked at people who voted where they did, and I think as normal the wolves wouldn't be consolidated in one spot. So out of the people who voted JE, i tried to figure which was the most "wolfish" to me. So I picked you.

Was just a day 1 vote, and doubt I'll pursue it tommorrow. Just needed to go somewhere with it, and it was either going to be you or Neon for not showing up.

Here's Alan's reason. He was basically insisting on throwing away his vote. Either he believed in a lynch or he didn't. He acted on neither. His vote could have had an impact, but he chose to have it have none.

Anyhow, normally a good werewolf argument gets me into the game. Instead I'm just feeling like I'm arguing pointlessly. I'm going to go away from the thread for a while.

[Alan T]

Sorry that my pointing out all the flaws in your arguement upset you..


Its just a bad move to lynch me today. You shouldn't ever lynch someone who you think is a villager.

I gave many reasons why people shouldn't lynch me, you couldn't give one good one why you should.

[st.cronin]

Vote count:

2 - Alan T - Barkeep49 (328), Gonzo (356)
2 - Neon Chaos - KWhit (344), RendeR (348)
1 - RendeR - path12 (282)
1 - Lathum - Dodgerchick (326)
1 - Barkeep49 - Lathum (349)

Not voted: JHandley, LoneStarGirl, Antmeister, Telle, DaddyTorgo, cartman, Schmidty, Alan T, Chief Rum, Neon_Chaos, tanglewood

[JHandley]

Subject to change, of course.

VOTE NEON CHAOS

[Lathum]

I just don't see Alan making the plays he is making as a wolf, and even so we can look at him down the road.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

As for letting votes bother me more than they should, its not the votes that bother me as much as the people who would blindly follow them onto a bandwagon to either A) Try to hide in a vote while killing a villager if they are a wolf, or B) To go with the flow and not actually try to make a individual decision.

Alan, I don't think it's either of those cases at all. I'm not planning to switch my vote at this time, but really -- the PM you got looks more ominous than good to me, and I suspect that if someone else got it you would wonder the same thing.

[Lathum]

I think lynching AlanT today is a mistake.

IF he was converted we can lynch him tomorrow, I think it makes more sense to wait and see if somone has the same thing happen tomorrow. I think it possible there is a role out there that can put a player to sleep at night. I doubt this is a 1 time ability otherwise it wouldn't be used so early.

I think we lay off AlanT today and see if someone comes back with the same message tomorrow, even if that means lynching Neon Chaos instead.

[Lathum]

dola- I'm out until the deadline, I think lynching Alant is a mistake until we know more about what happened to him.

[Schmidty]

Ok, well I just read through everything, which basically consisted of Alan revealing a PM that doesn't mean much, as it could signify a number of things, and Alan and BK arguing a lot. I don't know that a wolf would be so loud and obnoxious at this point, since everyone else in the game is quiet, so I wonder if either of them are WWs. Or, maybe they are doing the "wolf-riffing-off-wolf" thing, I don't know.

Anyway, I was pissed about the no-vote yesterday, and voted path12 because he lead the charge, but that went nowhere. Because we need to try to get something done, I'll go with someone that has enough votes to actually get lynched, and really hasn't been around much. As usual, this is subject to change, especially if NC can give a good reason as to why we shouldn't vote for him:

Vote Neon Chaos

Family will be here this weekend, so I'll be off and on very sporadically.

[JHandley]

Should be back by the deadline, but if not, I'm still comfortable with my vote.

[Chief Rum]

Slow conversion, people? Come on, do you all really believe that bull? It's not like that is a common action in WW games. I hardly think we should leap to it here. Alan had a visitor last night. We don't know if that person was good or bad. Alan hasn't said he isn't the same as yesterday or that his status has changed. So I say we have very little good reason to lynch him today.

I defintiely don't like BK arguing against AlanT on the grounds he is when he voted No Lynch, and was very anti-lynch all day. I'm not saying he can't argue it, but it just seems hypocritical and has less impact because of that. I mean, if BK really wanted Alan to lynch JE, he could have made it possible himself by switching his own vote.

That said, I am staying out of this one. I don't think either Alan or BK or wolves. We need to wait another night and see if someone else comes out with the same information.

I am leaning toward the useless villager ploy, but there are too many votes on Neon Chaos. We'll learn more in a closer vote. So I'm putting my vote on the other UTR player.

VOTE ANTMEISTER

[st.cronin]

updated vote count:

4 - Neon Chaos - KWhit (344), RendeR (348), JHandley (388), Schmidty (393)
2 - Alan T - Barkeep49 (328), Gonzo (356)
1 - RendeR - path12 (282)
1 - Lathum - Dodgerchick (326)
1 - Barkeep49 - Lathum (349)
1 - Antmeister - Chief Rum (395)

Not voted: LoneStarGirl, Antmeister, Telle, DaddyTorgo, cartman, Alan T, Neon_Chaos, tanglewood

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by JHandley

I agree we should have lynched Antmeister or Neon yesterday. But we didn't, so to me we're just making up for what should have happened yesterday.

Well anyone is free to scan me. And at this point, I still don't have much information to go on. However, I would have to agree with Lathum about the aggressiveness of Barkeep's accusations. So I will go ahead and:

Vote Barkeep

[DaddyTorgo]

well i'm done with harry potter and around

[DaddyTorgo]

I agree with lathum and alan that it doesn't make sense to lynch alan at this point. I also agree that barkeep's play has been drastically different than his usual play.

I also am not comfortable voting for Neon Chaos either as they are a lot of votes on him and that seems like an easy "hide" for wolves, implying that he's good. I think at this point I'm leaning towards Barkeep or Ant.

[cartman]

Hmm. I've gone back and re-read everything since the events last night, and I'm a bit stumped as to how to proceed. DT's post right above mine seems to make a lot of sense. It could be that the wolves are trying to push the villagers to lynch their own, and if they aren't lynched, they issue the kill. That line of reasoning would bear fruit if the votes change and Neon Chaos isn't lynched, but is killed tonight anyway.