Discussion on FL "Don't Say Gay" bill

[Flasch186]

You got suspended? That’s really the only way you get in the club I guess so until then you’re on a interim membership basis.


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[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Not going to go so far as to say he is wrecking the board but I have all but stopped engaging in his ridiculous bad faith argument and certainly don't read the posts of the people who still choose to.

I will, he does.

[Edward64]

Oh well, guess I'm being cancelled (or boycotted?).

I'll have to persevere and press on.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Oh well, guess I'm being cancelled (or boycotted?).

I'll have to persevere and press on.

You have been cancelled as much as anybody has ever been cancelled. (no one has ever been cancelled).

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

You have been cancelled as much as anybody has ever been cancelled. (no one has ever been cancelled).

Oh, thanks!

My feelings were getting hurt but I feel better now.

[larrymcg421]

My guess is something like 90% of the people being called extremists here supported Biden over Bernie.

[molson]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

(no one has ever been cancelled).

I don't care about the drama in this thread but I've read this sentiment a lot and have never quite understood it. Kevin Spacey, Louis CK, Bill Cosby? All literally cancelled from things. Or in FOFC terms, posters who have been literally banned.

Maybe I don't know what cancelled means.

Obviously Edward64 has not been cancelled because I still see he's posting things. But if he loses it and starts posting gay slurs, he may be banned/cancelled from FOFC. I don't know if that's still a thing that happens in this late-era board stage.

[cuervo72]

I was wondering what Paula Deen was up to the other day.

[cuervo72]

Also:

"Time for us to attack Disney where they're weakest: copyright and trademark" https://t.co/zUoRv2NzT5

— Adam Weinstein (@AdamWeinstein) April 27, 2023

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by molson

I don't care about the drama in this thread but I've read this sentiment a lot and have never quite understood it. Kevin Spacey, Louis CK, Bill Cosby? All literally cancelled from things. Or in FOFC terms, posters who have been literally banned.

Maybe I don't know what cancelled means.

Obviously Edward64 has not been cancelled because I still see he's posting things. But if he loses it and starts posting gay slurs, he may be banned/cancelled from FOFC. I don't know if that's still a thing that happens in this late-era board stage.

You mean people who faced consequences for their actions? Is that what "cancelled" means? You listed three people who did explicitly terrible things, and some how society was supposed to be fine with it?

The term "cancelled" is thrown around with other buzz words, but in essence it is "I acted terribly, but I shouldn't face any consequences." It is a lazy, "I'm the victim" term. And the vast majority of those who claim it are doing so on large platforms with a large megaphone. They are far from "cancelled."
Heck even on your list: Louis CK is still performing, doing specials etc. This after he was flashing and acting inappropriately toward women which he admitted he did.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

My guess is something like 90% of the people being called extremists here supported Biden over Bernie.

If this was directed towards me ... yes, I believe this. But that's not how I was using the term. Happy to get into a "good faith" discussion if you want. But no problem if not.

[molson]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

You mean people who faced consequences for their actions? Is that what "cancelled" means? You listed three people who did explicitly terrible things, and some how society was supposed to be fine with it?

The term "cancelled" is thrown around with other buzz words, but in essence it is "I acted terribly, but I shouldn't face any consequences." It is a lazy, "I'm the victim" term. And the vast majority of those who claim it are doing so on large platforms with a large megaphone. They are far from "cancelled."
Heck even on your list: Louis CK is still performing, doing specials etc. This after he was flashing and acting inappropriately toward women which he admitted he did.

Cancelled means to be fired, have something taken away, being banned. There is no moral component. You can be cancelled and deserve it.

Louis CK was fired from a movie franchise, had production contracts cancelled, by his own count, lost tens of millions of dollars. Yes, he's found out a way to sell more directly to his audience. But he was literally cancelled by numerous entities. And deserved it. He's not in prison, he can still make content. But his career has unquestionably been altered by media companies not being willing to work with him. He was cancelled.

Kevin Spacey was fired from a TV show and erased from a movie. He was cancelled. And he deserved it.

I guess I can accept that the definition of the word changed in the last couple of years to mean being fired when one doesn't deserve it (which is bizarre, but whatever). But then, people always bring up that Louis CK still makes a living to deny that he's been cancelled. But go watch Secret Life of Pets. It's a different guy as the main character. Why do you think he hasn't been on SNL again? Or another mainstream movie? Being fired from a lot of stuff doesn't count as "cancelled" if you still make any other media content? Huh?

If we insist on having this new tortured definition of a formerly-simple word, we should have a different word that means when you're dropped from employers and projects and your career unquestionably altered and limited because of your actions. Because that definitely is a phenomenon. And we definitely used to call that being cancelled - which is what that word actually means, or used to mean before "cancelling doesn't exist" became a thing.

Edit: Where the new definition really goes off the rails for me is when someone says Louis CK wasn't cancelled because he still makes content. So the implication is that he WAS cancelled but no longer is. So I guess that applies to Bill Cosby too, who has done a few bar shows. And Kevin Spacey - I think he did a movie in France or something. I don't think Armie Hammer or the guy from That 70's Show have worked at all, so I guess they are still cancelled - even though they deserved it, which contradicts the other definition that its only cancelling if you don't deserve it. I vote for "cancelling" just meaning what it's always meant, and if someone thinks someone didn't deserve it, they were "unfairly cancelled".

[PilotMan]

There's a huge difference between being punished (criminal, civil, social) for something you've done, and being punished for what you "are" (lgbtq, pro choice, minority).

We're seeing huge conflations that aim to put them in the same boat. trump is the biggest abuser of it, he literally calls anybody trying to hold him accountable (first group), a trump hater (second group) in order to amplify the victim card and appear that it's unjust.

Cancelled in general, is basically something the right is clutching. It's change. It's social nullification (as they see it) of their belief structure. They want to and insist that it's OK to celebrate our slave holders, queer haters, and Christian hypocrisy so long as it's under the mantle of personal choice and religious freedom. This is how they feel cancelled.

Conversely, since they hate queers, women, poor people and foreigners, they're more than willing to silence those groups and define it under "family values".

Someone getting punished in a world they live in, like the public eye, for being either criminally entitled, or criminal in general isn't a big deal. Society didn't suffer their absence. Life went on. If the punishment was merely social, they have a litany of careers they are welcome to explore. That's not being cancelled. That's suffering consequences, either from the legal system or society.

[GrantDawg]

Molson, the point is none of that is "canceling." Canceling ia a completely made up term. People generally always got fired or had a hard time getting a public jobs after being exposed for doing something terrible. No one called it "canceled" till recently, and the term has an implied victim hood. In essence, it is just a bs term.

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[molson]

So was Louis CK cancelled before he made his comeback?

Otherwise I agree with the sentiment behind it all, but chose to die on the hill that you can be cancelled for doing bad shit, and also that conservatives complain that people are unfairly cancelled when society actually gets it right almost every time it happens.

I first heard the term "cancelled" in this context during the Me Too movement. And those cancellations were warranted, and described correctly. It's only more recently that the definition changed and become contradictory and required an element of unfairness to count as that category. Which is weird because it's only "cancelled" now if it's a circumstance that doesn't exist. We re-defined the word into a nullity. Which honestly kind of sounds like the weird political-based wordplay that people accuse Edward64 of doing. It was a perfectly fine word before.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

when society actually gets it right almost every time it happens.

A point we'll just have to disagree on.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by molson

We re-defined the word into a nullity. Which honestly kind of sounds like the weird political-based wordplay that people accuse Edward64 of doing. It was a perfectly fine word before.

This is just standard operating procedure for conservatives and their media partners. Woke and diversity are a couple of obvious recent examples. Anti-racism is in the middle of this process now.

[molson]

Went down the rabbit whole a bit more - the term "cancel" in this context seems to have originated with a #CancelColbert hashtag when someone didn't understand his schtick when he said something satirically racist, and then black posters on twitter made it a bigger thing when responding to racism in culture - though half of the time they were just joking, and then Me Too and all of the sexual misconduct stuff broke all kind of at once and there was a societal and entertainment-industry effort to erase those offenders, and THEN the far right commandeered the term to support the Trump anti-politically correct rhetoric - where the left is coming to destroy us all for nothing and all that.

This Washington Post article headline sums up my confusion pretty well (behind a paywall so I didn't read the article):

"The strange journey of 'cancel,' from a Black-culture punchline to a White-grievance watchword".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...479_story.html

I guess I just didn't keep up with that last part (or at least how that last part nullified all previous uses of the term). Well I'm taking the word back, damn it, for Me Too and black twitter!!!

[PilotMan]

Here's the article with the pay wall removed Molson

https://wapo.st/44eLJ7S

[Ghost Econ]

Has anyone notable ever legitimately been canceled for something benign?

[PilotMan]

It's not anyone... right now it's about queers and anyone (businesses are people too now!) who supports them. Sort of brings it all back full circle.

Full disclosure, If I could, I'd cancel the shit out of anti-vaxxers, and conspiracy theorists.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

So was Louis CK cancelled before he made his comeback?

Otherwise I agree with the sentiment behind it all, but chose to die on the hill that you can be cancelled for doing bad shit, and also that conservatives complain that people are unfairly cancelled when society actually gets it right almost every time it happens.

I first heard the term "cancelled" in this context during the Me Too movement. And those cancellations were warranted, and described correctly. It's only more recently that the definition changed and become contradictory and required an element of unfairness to count as that category. Which is weird because it's only "cancelled" now if it's a circumstance that doesn't exist. We re-defined the word into a nullity. Which honestly kind of sounds like the weird political-based wordplay that people accuse Edward64 of doing. It was a perfectly fine word before.

I don't really understand the word canceled. Certain people's behaviors are toxic enough that businesses don't want to associate with them. That's it. When it comes to celebrities or prominent people, it's just capitalism. Louis CK isn't hosting the Oscars for the same reason Disney doesn't hire a pornstar to play Snow White.


Same thing in our personal lives. There is a guy at work who gets obnoxiously drunk when we hang out afterwards. We don't invite him any longer. Is he canceled? Shouldn't a group of people get to decide who they want to associate with?


It feels like a word used by people trying to justify why people don't want to associate with them any longer. It's easier to say "I was canceled" then "I was racist, sexist, homophobic, or just a plain insufferable asshole".

[Flasch186]

This


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[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't really understand the word canceled. Certain people's behaviors are toxic enough that businesses don't want to associate with them. That's it. When it comes to celebrities or prominent people, it's just capitalism. Louis CK isn't hosting the Oscars for the same reason Disney doesn't hire a pornstar to play Snow White.


Same thing in our personal lives. There is a guy at work who gets obnoxiously drunk when we hang out afterwards. We don't invite him any longer. Is he canceled? Shouldn't a group of people get to decide who they want to associate with?


It feels like a word used by people trying to justify why people don't want to associate with them any longer. It's easier to say "I was canceled" then "I was racist, sexist, homophobic, or just a plain insufferable asshole".

Exactly. Molson, don't "take cancel back." Drop the word unless you are using to stop paying for cable or something along the lines of what the word actually means. It is a "scratching a chalk-board" annoying political buzz word.

[molson]

I hate it when they take the words that fit the best.

How about "erase"? I read something in my half-ass research about the erasure of Kevin Spacey.

Edit: Eh, they'll just take that one too. I guess we have to sound it out with multiple words every time. Thanks, far right jerks.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by molson

I hate it when they take the words that fit the best.

How about "erase"? I read something in my half-ass research about the erasure of Kevin Spacey.

How about "fired", since that is what they were.

[molson]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

How about "fired", since that is what they were.

That's good when it comes to specific things - Louis CK was certainly fired from a film franchise and from his production deals.

The fact that he won't be on SNL again (at least any time soon), or any mainstream movies, and that there's certain things he's off-limits for, is a distinct and noteworthy circumstance that "cancelled" fits perfectly, to me. Oh well.

[Ksyrup]

"Commercially castrated"

[molson]

I like it.

[cuervo72]

We were surprised to see the graphic novel LITTLE ROCK NINE on the FLDOE survey results for removed books in Wakulla Schools.

We reached out for documentation on the removal, and this is what we received this morning.

Segregation & Brown v. BOE are taught in grade 4. pic.twitter.com/UxiQTWCaam

— Florida Freedom to Read Project (@FLFreedomRead) May 9, 2023

Don't say "gay", don't say "segregated."

[Lathum]

"some of the students in middle school or high school may be at a third grade reading level"

That really says all you need to know about Floridas education system.

[Ghost Econ]

I'm not gonna lie, this letter is amazing and I want these people to explain every inexplicable decision made for anything. Like when my wife asks why I bought raspberry pop tarts instead of confetti. Normally I'd say because the boxes look exactly the fucking same, but the script these people would draft for me would be spectacular.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

I'm not gonna lie, this letter is amazing and I want these people to explain every inexplicable decision made for anything. Like when my wife asks why I bought raspberry pop tarts instead of confetti. Normally I'd say because the boxes look exactly the fucking same, but the script these people would draft for me would be spectacular.

It's pop tarts is the only answer you would need

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

I'm not gonna lie, this letter is amazing and I want these people to explain every inexplicable decision made for anything. Like when my wife asks why I bought raspberry pop tarts instead of confetti. Normally I'd say because the boxes look exactly the fucking same, but the script these people would draft for me would be spectacular.

If I thought they were actually as smart as they were evil, I'd assume they were using ChatGPT to generate the response: "give a nonsensical response to why a book we banned was banned but say it was because of age limits but not because we're racist; oh, and make it sound bureaucratic"

SI

[Ghost Econ]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

If I thought they were actually smarter, I'd assume they were using ChatGPT to generate the response: "give a nonsensical response to why a book we banned was banned but say it was because of age limits but not because we're racist; oh, and make it sound bureaucratic"



SI

I was wondering if there's just some AI out there designed to draft letters like it was written by a college student who was up all night but only started writing 2 hours before the paper was due... Not that I know what that's like.

[Flasch186]

We’re getting closer

Do you think that the anonymous parent that complained had a problem with the exploration, the rare earth materials and resources being diminished? Was it the name Disney? What could it have been…. Hmmmmmm could it be Satan?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...e_iOSApp_Other


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[cuervo72]

There was a Twitter post from someone purported to be working on the Artemis project who is moving to IL. She is trans and a big part of the reason is DeSantis and recent legislation. Of course I'm sure that's WAI.

[cuervo72]

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signs SB 1580 medical conscience bill

Senate Bill 1580, “Protections of Medical Conscience,” allows Florida health care providers and payors to refuse services based on their moral, ethical or religious beliefs. The bill was one of more than a dozen bills closely watched by LGBTQ advocates who were concerned health care providers and insurers would use it to deny health care or coverage of health care to transgender people.

The legislation defined "conscience-based objection" as based on "a sincerely held religious, moral, or ethical belief."

[PilotMan]

Holy fuck

That's an abomination.

On so many levels. From the hippocratic oath, to general ethics that say that your life is more important than my beliefs. To actual government responsibility towards the wellness of its citizens.

If you can't do your job, because of your moral and religious code that's not an employer or government problem. That's a you problem. Find a new job. This is so much personal freedom that there's no line of standard. Total abomination.

[Flasch186]

We’re getting closer


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[Ghost Econ]

It also says payors, so in theory your insurance could suddenly have ethical/religious quandaries next time you need a surgery.

[Flasch186]

Totally unrelated and not at all indicative of the intention of the laws in the past as they were written:

Gov. DeSantis signs bill banning funding for diversity programs at colleges, universities https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/...ge-of-florida/


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[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

It also says payors, so in theory your insurance could suddenly have ethical/religious quandaries next time you need a surgery.

My wife said the impact of the doctors part will likely be minimal. The insurance part is what should be newsworthy.

Theoretically, someone could get pregnant and if she's not married the insurance company could refuse to cover any costs because they don't believe in sex outside of marriage.

Doctors are a person and people are able to have beliefs. They already have some leeway with turning down procedures that they don't agree with based on moral or religious reasons. What this does is say corporations can now have similar beliefs and refuse to cover the cost because of that. When it comes to a doctor you can find another doctor to do the procedure. With insurance you can't just go change insurance companies to get something paid for.

[Flasch186]

Weird

He passed a law last week that businesses cannot have opinions and determine if they’re ok with people wearing Covid masks or not….

It’s almost like there’s an ulterior motive


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[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

My wife said the impact of the doctors part will likely be minimal. The insurance part is what should be newsworthy.

Theoretically, someone could get pregnant and if she's not married the insurance company could refuse to cover any costs because they don't believe in sex outside of marriage.

Doctors are a person and people are able to have beliefs. They already have some leeway with turning down procedures that they don't agree with based on moral or religious reasons. What this does is say corporations can now have similar beliefs and refuse to cover the cost because of that. When it comes to a doctor you can find another doctor to do the procedure. With insurance you can't just go change insurance companies to get something paid for.

I think I may have chatGTP write a rom-com where young fashion writer Emma Watson from Coral Gables gets knocked up by her boyfriend Chris Pratt who then leaves her 2 months later for an older woman played by Jennifer Aniston. Since her insurance won't pay for the costs of a birth out of wedlock her and her editor, played by Javier Bardem, who is a dreamer about to be deported by the Florida governor have a sham wedding then eventually fall madly in love!

(yes I realize sounds like the proposal, but there isn't any originality left in hollywood)

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

My wife said the impact of the doctors part will likely be minimal. The insurance part is what should be newsworthy.

Theoretically, someone could get pregnant and if she's not married the insurance company could refuse to cover any costs because they don't believe in sex outside of marriage.

Doctors are a person and people are able to have beliefs. They already have some leeway with turning down procedures that they don't agree with based on moral or religious reasons. What this does is say corporations can now have similar beliefs and refuse to cover the cost because of that. When it comes to a doctor you can find another doctor to do the procedure. With insurance you can't just go change insurance companies to get something paid for.

I took it more as businesses can decide what care their employees are allowed to get. Kind of like the Hobby Lobby suit. Just placating to the weirdo CEO's who get off to telling others what they can and can't do with their bodies.

[PilotMan]

In sure glad that Florida didn't waste any more time or resources on some sort of anti-lgbtq crusade that we were (almost) all worried about. Looks like they've really stayed in their lane on this one and kept to their original, very strict, and very clearly worded verbiage that it was only about the children. Clearly, the threats they've accounted for with smart legislation will address the very most pressing threats to kids everywhere and will become a model for the US to follow going forward.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

In sure glad that Florida didn't waste any more time or resources on some sort of anti-lgbtq crusade that we were (almost) all worried about. Looks like they've really stayed in their lane on this one and kept to their original, very strict, and very clearly worded verbiage that it was only about the children. Clearly, the threats they've accounted for with smart legislation will address the very most pressing threats to kids everywhere and will become a model for the US to follow going forward.

Did you mean to post this in the "I'm Drunk" thread?

[Flasch186]

Boy

Wasting no time making all these specific individual pieces of legislation that aren’t tied To each other in any way and absolutely do not reflect a greater intention to attack a certain group of people.

Btw I planned to take my 9 yr old daughter to a Blue October concert in October but I guess I can’t now because someone might be a snow flake (that accuses others of being a snow flake) and complain that I chose (you know executing my right to make parental choices) to take my daughter to an “adult live show”

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/17/polit...nti-trans-bill


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[Flasch186]

It’s a broken record now… “yes 3rd grade is too early to have these conversations.”

Ok so fifth grade and up?

I dunno but not third grade

Law is amended to cover any grade up to twelve

This happened in fifth grade: https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/17/us/fl...tion-wednesday


The parents are up in arms because some of the students are straight (I’m sure that’s what upset them) and now it’s any grade.

Originally it was about parents gaining control of the classroom. So they sign permission slips to say they’re ok with the production company and rating system. Teacher abides. Parent gets upset and now they want to interview the kids (with parents permission slips).

This threads first bullshit pages and the garbage that there wasn’t an underlying intention is by far the dumbest, most gaslit spin (which of course doesn’t apply to other threads) I’ve ever read on here.

To think I once got suspended for calling a spade a spade and while they still get to do it (while calling other members names on these here boards) is fantastic. No I don’t want them suspended when they do it but I would hope that eventually they come into said threads and say,

“You know guys, I was wrong.”

Will never happen because a chameleon doesn’t have to say what color it is… it just keeps on changing.


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