The Official NBA 2016 Offseason Thread

[nol]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Not a good offseason to be a mid-range or lower team.

Never has been as far as free agency's concerned. After Aldridge, the most impactful player to actually change teams last year was probably Al-Farouq Aminu, and there were certainly quite a few players who got paid more than Aminu.

[Groundhog]

Lakers moves seem crazy, but I guess it means they are all in on the core of Ingram/Russell/Clarkson and just want to surround them with vets while they learn the ropes and don't mind overpaying because the deals will be up when Ingram and Russell's rookie deals are up.

[nol]

Looks like Horford's going to Boston for a 4-year max.

[wustin]

Horford to Boston...I hope they beat the Cavs next playoffs.

[RainMaker]

Wow. They should have gone all-in for Butler before the draft.

[RainMaker]

Also sounds like Atlanta didn't offer a full max. Kind of odd.

[Groundhog]

Horford found the perfect place for his skillset IMO. I think Boston fans will love him.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Lakers moves seem crazy, but I guess it means they are all in on the core of Ingram/Russell/Clarkson and just want to surround them with vets while they learn the ropes and don't mind overpaying because the deals will be up when Ingram and Russell's rookie deals are up.

The Lakers are a mess. I honestly don't think there's much of a plan on place. Buss was telling people before last season if they weren't a playoff team he'd step down.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Also sounds like Atlanta didn't offer a full max. Kind of odd.

Yeah, that alleged final offer of 5/$136 and the side being $6m apart is weird... you're going to give him the 5th year, and go through trading Millsap, but you're unwilling to spend the extra $1.2 million a year to just offer him what he wanted?

Oh well, ego's never cease to amaze me, and I love it. If KD does come here...

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Horford found the perfect place for his skillset IMO. I think Boston fans will love him.

After the last couple of playoff series the smart fans already do!

And anyone complaining about the $$$ is crazy. $28m/y gets you Al Horford or Timofey Mozgov + Solomon Hill. I know which side I'm picking.

[wustin]

I would be okay with Durant going to Boston.

[RainMaker]

Yeah the East needs more talent. I'd be fine with Durant ending up in Miami or Boston.

[wustin]

One of the side effects of this 20M+ cap space spike is that it makes it really hard for teams to tank since they have to reach the cap floor.

[whomario]

Biyombo to the Magic. Block City, Florida Be interesting how they stagger their minutes with Vucevic and Goordon (assuming all are there to start the season)

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by wustin

One of the side effects of this 20M+ cap space spike is that it makes it really hard for teams to tank since they have to reach the cap floor.

Not really. There isn't much of a penalty for not reaching the cap floor. The money under the cap floor is essentially just spread out among the players on your roster IIRC.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by wustin

One of the side effects of this 20M+ cap space spike is that it makes it really hard for teams to tank since they have to reach the cap floor.

You don't have to hit the cap floor. You can go below it and the difference just gets distributed between the players on the team.

You can also still trade for a bad contract for a pick and waive them. I do think it's harder to rebuild because 1st round picks are so much more valuable with the cap going up.

[wustin]

Ah, I though the organization would get taxed or penalized for some reason like if they went over the luxury tax.

[nol]

Originally Posted by whomario

Biyombo to the Magic. Block City, Florida Be interesting how they stagger their minutes with Vucevic and Goordon (assuming all are there to start the season)

I'd be open to dealing Vucevic and/or Payton for Rubio. That defense could be as good as any Vogel had in Indiana and the Magic would surely be a playoff team.

No penalty for going under the floor, and it would be difficult to come up with a penalty worse than signing some mediocre player for $20 million just to hit the floor. Speaking of not paying out enough money, the entire league ended up over $100 million short of the 49 percent of revenue it owes the players last season, which makes hearing about players getting paid too much now even funnier.

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Yeah, that alleged final offer of 5/$136 and the side being $6m apart is weird... you're going to give him the 5th year, and go through trading Millsap, but you're unwilling to spend the extra $1.2 million a year to just offer him what he wanted?

Seemed weird to me as well. I could at least see the downside of 35-36-year-old Horford getting max money outweighing the upside of being a pseudo-contender for the next couple of years (assuming no Durant), especially based on how offering the extra year to keep Chris Bosh has turned out for the Heat, but once you even start to consider 5 years I don't know how you couldn't just go all the way for a player who has certainly outperformed what he's earned up to this point.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If it were another organization I might think the Hawks were at least aware of how giving max money to a non-max-worthy player might play to the fans ... bit I can't that actually getting much consideration based on the organization (or the fans, for that matter)

For as much as I hate the Howard signing, and had no love for giving Horford a max deal, not sure that I can understand letting $1m & change a year be any sort of difference making deal breaker.

Happy enough it turned out this way honestly, would much rather see Milsap stay & Horford go than the other way around, but it really doesn't make a lot of sense to me the way it played out.

[stevew]

I guess if you could have Clarkson for 4/72 and Deng for 4/50 it wouldn't be so bad looking.

But seriously who the fuck is Solomon Hill?

[stevew]

Also isn't the 2019ish cap supposed to drop by a decent amount? Wonder if guys like Derozan and Conley will be making about 40% of the cap that year.

[Atocep]

And Austin Rivers gets 3 years and $35 million. That makes all the other contracts look good in comparison.

[stevew]

Mavs offering Barnes a max offer sheet.

[Vince, Pt. II]

You knew someone would. It's hard to imagine the Warriors not matching. With the obvious caveat of 'if Durant signs...' which seems really, really far-fetched.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Atocep

And Austin Rivers gets 3 years and $35 million. That makes all the other contracts look good in comparison.

Don't know what you've been looking at. Austin Rivers is a run-of-the-mill NBA bench player who signed for slightly more than the other run-of-mill bench players did because he's younger than all of them and can at least get slightly better.

[MrBug708]

Rivers probably doesn't get that offer if his dad isn't the coach. The offer to Crawford is what makes that offer bad

[RainMaker]

I'm not really sure what the Bulls plan is at the moment.

[nol]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Rivers probably doesn't get that offer if his dad isn't the coach. The offer to Crawford is what makes that offer bad

Eh, he's a restricted free agent who by definition is going to be overpaid by a million or two a season. Not sure how that's bad enough to stand out from everything else. Dion Waiters is gonna get an offer sheet of around $16 million once the other options dry up.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by stevew

Also isn't the 2019ish cap supposed to drop by a decent amount? Wonder if guys like Derozan and Conley will be making about 40% of the cap that year.

Last I saw they projected 107, 105, 106 then 112 and that was before the revenue for jerseys ads were known.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by nol

Eh, he's a restricted free agent who by definition is going to be overpaid by a million or two a season. Not sure how that's bad enough to stand out from everything else. Dion Waiters is gonna get an offer sheet of around $16 million once the other options dry up.

Last year was his best season and he improved to replacement level and he doesn't offer a single skill that isn't easily replaced. 66th rated pg by rpm last year, which was an improvement from 70th the year before.

If his dad wasn't coach of the Clippers he'd be in the D-League, if not overseas. He certainly wouldn't get $12 mil per season from anyone else, even in this market.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Last year was his best season.

Yep, because he was 23 years old and players tend to be better at 23 than 22, 21, 20, or 19 (and better still at 24, 25, and 26). On the flip side, players tend to be worse at 33 than 32, 31, 30, or 29. Paying a 26-year-old Austin Rivers $12 million is certainly not worse than paying 33-year-old Timofey Mozgov $16 million, especially when you consider that as a team at the cap the Clippers could only replace Austin Rivers with a $4 million/year player (let me know when someone signs for that amount of money).

I could just as easily say that if Evan Turner hadn't had one good season at Ohio State and gotten drafted 2nd overall, he'd have been out of the league by now, but that doesn't stop him from being an average NBA player who's getting paid what he got.

[jbergey22]

Yup, we have a good comparison for Rivers price point in that of Dellavedova. Good defensive players with limited offensive skill sets.

Certainly dont think this is a great signing but fits into what players of that ability are being paid right now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm not really sure what the Bulls plan is at the moment.

They're about one trade away from "see: Sixers, Philadelphia" being the answer to your question

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by nol

33-year-old Timofey Mozgov $16 million

But "he's seven feet tall ... and you can't ... teach ... dat"

[stevew]

Dion and Boogie on the same team has gotta happen.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If it were another organization I might think the Hawks were at least aware of how giving max money to a non-max-worthy player might play to the fans ... bit I can't that actually getting much consideration based on the organization (or the fans, for that matter)

For as much as I hate the Howard signing, and had no love for giving Horford a max deal, not sure that I can understand letting $1m & change a year be any sort of difference making deal breaker.

Happy enough it turned out this way honestly, would much rather see Milsap stay & Horford go than the other way around, but it really doesn't make a lot of sense to me the way it played out.

Agreed. If it where between Saps and Horford, I want to keep Saps. I just couldn't see giving Horford a 5 year max deal, but then the way this FA period is going that is probably what he was worth.

In the end, the team took a big step back. Howard does things Horford can't (better rebounder, more post presence) but the team loses the things Hoford was so good at (spreading the floor, hitting midrange shots, hustle D). We now have no back pg (with very little money or resources to find one), and still need a starting sg (Korver desperately needs to move to the bench). I am very disappointed. This looks like a bottom level playoff team, which is probably the worst position to be in. Hell, if Howard gets injured (and he almost definitely will), the team might be better off because they will become a lottery pick team.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But "he's seven feet tall ... and you can't ... teach ... dat"

So Schröder is Enzo?

[stevew]

Who is Tyler Johnson?

[nol]

Miami's version of Delly. The original Delly might need to reexamine things with his agent for what we're seeing other backup point guards get.

[Young Drachma]

Feel like Durant is going to go back to OKC for a 1-year swan song rather than bolt now, but I guess we'll find out soon. Seems weird to drag it out this long if you're just gonna go back though.

David Aldridge on Twitter: "Kevin Durant has concluded his meeting with the Miami Heat. He will meet with the Thunder in NY later today & then hunker down to decide."

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by stevew

Who is Tyler Johnson?

Bumpy getting paid!

[nol]

Speaking of big free agents in 2017, I was already thinking of Seth Curry, who had a pretty nice finish to the season (16 ppg in April on 48% shooting from 3) as a possible bargain at backup point guard. Now if I'm Charlotte, I might as well throw $12-15 million per year at him in hopes he can put in the good word for his brother.

Edit: if you want to see some players who will be more relevant to the NBA in 2-3 years than most of the guys signing eight-figure contracts, the FIBA U17 World Championship is streaming here. USA has quite a few top recruits/future one-and-done type players.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by nol

Miami's version of Delly. The original Delly might need to reexamine things with his agent for what we're seeing other backup point guards get.

Forget Delly, Eric Gordon needs to have some questions... Tyler Johnson 4/$50, Austin Rivers 3/$35, Eric Gordon 4/$53. How does Gordon not get more?!? I know he's hurt (a lot), but he's a legit starter and in his prime.

And put me in the camp that thinks Austin Rivers isn't any better than multiple D-league guards available for the minimum. He has such a big ego on offense he's a minus player on that end imo.

[nol]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

And put me in the camp that thinks Austin Rivers isn't any better than multiple D-league guards available for the minimum. He has such a big ego on offense he's a minus player on that end imo.

And if he's a slight minus on offense and a slight plus on defense, that averages out to be an ordinary NBA rotation player. Surely you could name at least one D-league guard if there are multiple players who could come in and put up 21 points and 8 assists in a playoff game. I mean, Memphis had the whole D-league to cycle through at the end of the season and obviously couldn't find anyone who wasn't horrendous against the Spurs. Here's Xavier Munford, a player who's actually older than Austin Rivers. He averaged 20 points and 6 assists in the D-league, so let's see how that stacks up in the NBA.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Forget Delly, Eric Gordon needs to have some questions... Tyler Johnson 4/$50, Austin Rivers 3/$35, Eric Gordon 4/$53. How does Gordon not get more?!? I know he's hurt (a lot), but he's a legit starter and in his prime.

And put me in the camp that thinks Austin Rivers isn't any better than multiple D-league guards available for the minimum. He has such a big ego on offense he's a minus player on that end imo.

Gordon's getting half of the max cause he will play half of the games.

[wustin]

He'll also hog the ball half as many times as James Harden

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

Who is Tyler Johnson?

I asked that exact same question earlier today.

I suspect he might actually be the most anonymous of all the guys who got paid this off season so far.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by nol

And if he's a slight minus on offense and a slight plus on defense, that averages out to be an ordinary NBA rotation player. Surely you could name at least one D-league guard if there are multiple players who could come in and put up 21 points and 8 assists in a playoff game. I mean, Memphis had the whole D-league to cycle through at the end of the season and obviously couldn't find anyone who wasn't horrendous against the Spurs. Here's Xavier Munford, a player who's actually older than Austin Rivers. He averaged 20 points and 6 assists in the D-league, so let's see how that stacks up in the NBA.

I'm not arguing there's a ton of D-league guys who could step in and be a good role player on a contender, I'm saying Austin Rivers isn't one either. No other team in the league wanted him when he was on an ELC, the Celtics would've released him if GM Doc didn't cough up an asset (that could be used to get a guy like Demetrius Jackson and see if you can find a good role player on a dirt cheap deal), and I very much doubt there was any team willing to give him a bigger offer sheet. GM Doc gave up top much in that trade for him, and now he's paying him too much money, and we all know it's connected to their relationship. He should be an 11th/12th man who ends up in a rotation when injuries happen, not your 7th/8th guy making 11% of the cap.

[Groundhog]

I like Tyler Johnson based on what I've seen of him before his injury. Athletic, OK handles (but more of a combo guard), and a decent jumper. Only 24, so his money makes more sense to me than some of the others. I'd rather pay him than Austin Rivers, anyway, who has 1 or 2 games a season where he catches fire from deep and seems to make some folks forget all the other times he plays out of control and can't hit the side of the barn.

[wustin]

Austin Rivers played very well this past season, if Jeremy Lin can get 8 figures I don't see how Austin couldn't either.

Edit: I know for marketing purposes, Jeremy Lin is more justified paying that amount of money. He's asian and there's that whole Linsanity craze in his career.