2013-14 MLB Off Season Thread

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Red Sox agree to short-term (probably 1-year) deal with AJ Pierzynski. Not a terrible deal from a pure stats perspective, but as someone who actually watches the Red Sox I hate it. There might not be a more unlikeable player in the league, and I hate that he'll be on my team.

Agreed. This seems like a huge step back, clubhouse/likability wise.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Agreed. This seems like a huge step back, clubhouse/likability wise.

Don't worry- no one else likes the Red Sox so you're just in the same boat as the rest of us now

SI

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Don't worry- no one else likes the Red Sox so you're just in the same boat as the rest of us now

SI

We'll just have to hug our WS trophies extra hard then

(I'm talking more about the clubhouse here, that the big deal was the selfish, unlikeable players during the beer and chicken error, er, era.. Pierzynski is going to have to try hard to fit in)

[cartman]

Pierzynski seems to have cleaned up his act a bit. There weren't any clubhouse issues last season during his time with the Rangers. But I agree about the likability factor. He has a face you can't help but want to punch.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Don't worry- no one else likes the Red Sox so you're just in the same boat as the rest of us now

SI

And there's always plenty of Cardinals to hate.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

And there's always plenty of Cardinals to hate.

Yeah, this last WS was dreadful - no one to even nominally cheer for. For the record, if forced to pick a team, it was pulling for Red Sox over Cards

SI

[Chief Rum]

It feels like Pierszynski to the Red Sox is a deal that should have happened a decade ago.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by cartman

Pierzynski seems to have cleaned up his act a bit. There weren't any clubhouse issues last season during his time with the Rangers. But I agree about the likability factor. He has a face you can't help but want to punch.

I still dislike him from my perspective, but has he ever really had clubhouse issues? Everything I've read suggests he's the type that teammates love and opponents hate.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I still dislike him from my perspective, but has he ever really had clubhouse issues? Everything I've read suggests he's the type that teammates love and opponents hate.

He definitely was considered a cancer in the Giants clubhouse.

[Butter]

Reports out that the Reds are trading C Ryan Hanigan to the Rays, but no word yet on who the Reds are getting in return. Other rumors are stating this is a 3-way trade with the A's involved somehow.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Reports out that the Reds are trading C Ryan Hanigan to the Rays, but no word yet on who the Reds are getting in return. Other rumors are stating this is a 3-way trade with the A's involved somehow.

I'm hearing a straight up for Longoria.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It feels like Pierszynski to the Red Sox is a deal that should have happened a decade ago.

As much as I dislike AJ he is very underrated IMO. He has a knack for coming through in tough situations as well. Upgrade over Salty IMO as Salty could only hit certain types of pitcher and was far from consistent.

[DougW]

Now a better move by the kitty cats ...

Tigers agree to sign free agent closer Joe Nathan to two-year deal - CBSSports.com

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by cartman

He definitely was considered a cancer in the Giants clubhouse.

Aah, forgot about that one (and the alleged story about how he lost the clubhouse's respect - in spring training he was hit in the nuts with a pitch, and the trainer came out to check on him. When asked how he was feeling, he kneed the trainer in the nuts and said "like that". No idea if it's true, but not a bad story. ) Most White Sox and Texas players seemed to at least find him tolerable - look at these ringing endorsements. Adam Dunn - "He's not any more of a dick than anyone else." Ozzie Guillen - "If he's on the other team, you hate him. If he's on your team, you hate him a little less."

$8.25 million for the 1 year. I'd definitely rather have Ryan Hanigan.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by DougW

Now a better move by the kitty cats ...

Tigers agree to sign free agent closer Joe Nathan to two-year deal - CBSSports.com

I guess Valverde is officially done as a MLB pitcher

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

$8.25 million for the 1 year. I'd definitely rather have Ryan Hanigan.

Meh...

Not if repeating is your goal.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Aah, forgot about that one (and the alleged story about how he lost the clubhouse's respect - in spring training he was hit in the nuts with a pitch, and the trainer came out to check on him. When asked how he was feeling, he kneed the trainer in the nuts and said "like that". No idea if it's true, but not a bad story. ) Most White Sox and Texas players seemed to at least find him tolerable - look at these ringing endorsements. Adam Dunn - "He's not any more of a dick than anyone else." Ozzie Guillen - "If he's on the other team, you hate him. If he's on your team, you hate him a little less."

$8.25 million for the 1 year. I'd definitely rather have Ryan Hanigan.

I remember the story as him not kneeing the trainer in the nuts, but literally grabbing the trainer by the nuts and squeezing as hard as he could. Which just seems even infinitely worse (and it's hard to be infinitely worse than being kneed in the nuts; credit to AJ for finding a way).

[Logan]

I heard the "knee in the nuts" story from a Simmons mailbag a bunch of years back (my second Simmons mailbag reference on this board today, whoops).

[molson]

This is kind of an interesting take on the whole, "my team signed a jerk, now what?" thing as it pertains to Pierzynski.

A.J. Pierzynski will win over Red Sox fans - Touching All the Bases - Boston.com

I'm fairly optimistic he won't ruin the team all by himself or anything. He's known David Ortiz since 1997 and they apparently get along. Maybe he does better on rosters with other outgoing, colorful characters than he might on a team with quiet, sensitive, traditionally "classy" types - (I know "classy" had traditionally been FOFC's most importantly-help value, but I think there's now been a shift with the mockery of those who advocate for playing the game "the right way", so in light of that, maybe loud, outspoken, big personality guys will be looked at in a different way).

[cartman]

The Rangers trade Craig Gentry and Josh Lindblom to the A's for Michael Choice and Chris Bostick.

I guess that means that Leonys Martin will be the full-time CF for the Rangers next season.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm fairly optimistic he won't ruin the team all by himself or anything.

Right. Papi and Pedy are the team leaders and after what happened in 2012 it would be hard to imagine them two not taking care of a problem right away if one was to exist.

If the Dolphins had signed him there may be problems not the Red Sox.

I think as a player/teammate he is a nice fit. While Salty would go 4-5 with 2 home runs in games you win 14-2 against some 4th starter. AJ will battle Sherzer and hit a sac fly or ground ball to move the runner to 3rd in a 1-1 game while Salty doesnt hit good pitching.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by cartman

The Rangers trade Craig Gentry and Josh Lindblom to the A's for Michael Choice and Chris Bostick.

I guess that means that Leonys Martin will be the full-time CF for the Rangers next season.

Seems like an odd deal from the A's perspective. Isn't Choice a pretty decent, ready to play prospect?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Seems like an odd deal from the A's perspective. Isn't Choice a pretty decent, ready to play prospect?

I know that he's been on a few Top Prospect lists.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Mayo at MLB has him currently at 90.

[Butter]

Looks like Hanigan goes to the Rays along with Heath Bell from the D'backs, while the D'backs get Rays prospect RHP Justin Choate, and the Reds get D'backs prospect LHP David Holmberg.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Seems like an odd deal from the A's perspective. Isn't Choice a pretty decent, ready to play prospect?

I've read that from the A's perspective, Gentry was really intriguing for defensive and baserunning reasons.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Well, thankfully the Sox didnt listen to me as Salty would've been all over a QO. Ben read the market well here.

[SirFozzie]

Ellsbury 7/153 to the Yanks.

yuck.

Was a lot happier when he was moving outside the division.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Ellsbury 7/153 to the Yanks.

yuck.

Was a lot happier when he was moving outside the division.

Did you really think he'd end up somewhere else?

I could have maybe seen Seattle if they were willing to splash the cash (putting him closer to home and all), but that's about it.

Fuck em - he's dead to me.

[SirFozzie]

Meh. He's done a lot for the Sox, so I'll still have good feelings for him (except when the Yanks and Sox are playing).

I'm also encouraged by the fact that the NYYFans board are.. less then enthused about the deal (especially as they think this means no Cano)

Yankees, Ellsbury Nearing A Deal

edit: Not to mention the Sox get a Supplemental pick out of the deal.

[molson]

I'm glad the Red Sox would never give so much money to a rapidly aging speed guy with no power.

[DaddyTorgo]

Exactly. And yes, hopefully it means no Cano.

Ask if me I'd rather they have Ellsbury or Cano and I'd rather they have Ellsbury 100 times out of 100.

[SirFozzie]

Apparently the deal has an option for an 8th year. I hope for the Yankees sake, it's a team option and not a player option.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

I'd say it's more likely the 189 plan is out the window and they are going nuclear.

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm glad the Red Sox would never give so much money to a rapidly aging speed guy with no power.

lol

[Desnudo]

Wtf is it with baseball and decade long contracts

My feel old moment was reading Ellsbury is 30.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Well, thankfully the Sox didnt listen to me as Salty would've been all over a QO. Ben read the market well here.

Meh... there are always 1-2 guys who misread the market and turn those down when they shouldn't have. Kyle Lohse last year, Kendrys Morales this year (I'm assuming). I don't see Drew getting close to $14m/y after Peralta signed, but he still turned down the QO because he wanted more years. (And from what I'm hearing the main reason he signed with Florida was their offering a 3rd year.)

Ellsbury just became a top 10 pick in fantasy baseball next year - barring injury he should hit 30 hr there.

Under the radar pick up I liked today - Astros picked up Dexter Fowler for Jordan Lyles. Not really sure what the Rockies plan is.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Wtf is it with baseball and decade long contracts

My feel old moment was reading Ellsbury is 30.

Yeah - quite ridiculous.

[Suicane75]

Astros get Fowler from the Rockies for very little. It's a start.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Astros get Fowler from the Rockies for very little. It's a start.

Fangraphs had a pretty good article on the trade:
Astros, Rockies Bet on Different Kinds of Potential | FanGraphs Baseball

SI

[BishopMVP]

Interesting news on Tanaka (or maybe only for future years) - MLB is now proposing a posting-fee limit for Japanese players. If multiple teams submit max bid, player goes to team with worst record. Rumor is NPB would agree to that, but is hung up on the current proposed limit - $20m!

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Interesting news on Tanaka (or maybe only for future years) - MLB is now proposing a posting-fee limit for Japanese players. If multiple teams submit max bid, player goes to team with worst record. Rumor is NPB would agree to that, but is hung up on the current proposed limit - $20m!

Silly. I heard the posting limit would be $50M or tied to revenues but I guess not

SI

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Silly. I heard the posting limit would be $50M or tied to revenues but I guess not

SI

I'm assuming the $20m was an initial offer thrown out by MLB and it will end up in the $40-$50m range. Either way, I hate the idea that the bid goes to the team with the worst record. I think a better solution would be allowing the player to choose from all the tied bids, while also counting any posting fee against the luxury tax calculations for the winning team.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Exactly. And yes, hopefully it means no Cano.

Ask if me I'd rather they have Ellsbury or Cano and I'd rather they have Ellsbury 100 times out of 100.

I'm just curious...why?

I like Ellsbury's versatility - he's a better fielder, base stealer and a leadoff hitter - all are very valuable.

But there are other factors, durability being a big one. Ellsbury has played in 384 games the last 4 years, Cano has played in 720 - in other words, over the last 4 years the team with Cano has gotten a great player twice as often as the team with Ellsbury. That's huge. Then you have to factor in the style of their games. Ellsbury's 2011 year with 32 homers looks like a outlier - he's never hit more than 9 in any other year. That's a Brady Anderson-sized statistical anomaly. So it is fair to summarize him as a speed guy who is often injured. Guys like that don't tend to do well in their 30s. Cano is a .300 / 30hr hitter and the track record for those guys tends to be significantly better as they go deep into their careers.

It will be interesting to see how much money Cano ends up with. The Yankees are giving Ellsbury $21m a year. I think Cano will end up around 8 years for $200m ($25m a year). At those rates, I think Cano is the better long-term buy.

Of course, I don't think any player is worth that much money unless the player is Pedro Martinez, Barry Bonds (with or without roids) or someone like that.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

I'm just curious...why?

I think you made his point for him. He is a red sox fan saying that he would rather the Yankees have Ellsbury (because as you said Cano would be better for the Yankees to have)

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I think you made his point for him. He is a red sox fan saying that he would rather the Yankees have Ellsbury (because as you said Cano would be better for the Yankees to have)

Thanks, I misread his post.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

So it is fair to summarize him as a speed guy who is often injured. Guys like that don't tend to do well in their 30s.

They don't? Speed guys generally hold on to their value much better than other types of players. The oft injured charge - well, he was fallen on for two of those long injuries.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sounds like the Beltran to KC rumors are heating up again. He came to town on Monday and is still here this morning. Tim Kurkjian reported on ESPN Radio that multiple GM's have told him that they believe Beltran is KC's to lose.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Sounds like the Beltran to KC rumors are heating up again. He came to town on Monday and is still here this morning. Tim Kurkjian reported on ESPN Radio that multiple GM's have told him that they believe Beltran is KC's to lose.

I hope this happens. I've always liked KC and it would be cool to see Carlos go back to the team that drafted home. That said, sounds like Seattle is coming pretty strong after him.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Sounds like the Beltran to KC rumors are heating up again. He came to town on Monday and is still here this morning. Tim Kurkjian reported on ESPN Radio that multiple GM's have told him that they believe Beltran is KC's to lose.

Someone earlier asked what Dayton Moore would do to try and keep his job... well, Carlos Beltran for 3/48 looks to be his play, while also costing the Royals the 18th and possibly ~30th picks in the draft. (I'm not entirely certain on supplemental picks, but I think KC would lose their supplemental pick for Santana if they signed a separate restricted FA like Beltran.)

What do people think Choo will get? I'm hearing varying rumors from something around 5-6 years at $20m/y to a contract approaching (or even potentially exceeding) Ellsbury's. I looooooooooove the bat, and his swing is tailor-made for Fenway, but those years/dollars give me pause.

Originally Posted by Blackadar

But there are other factors, durability being a big one. Ellsbury has played in 384 games the last 4 years, Cano has played in 720 - in other words, over the last 4 years the team with Cano has gotten a great player twice as often as the team with Ellsbury. That's huge. Then you have to factor in the style of their games. Ellsbury's 2011 year with 32 homers looks like a outlier - he's never hit more than 9 in any other year. That's a Brady Anderson-sized statistical anomaly. So it is fair to summarize him as a speed guy who is often injured.

I don't know if he'll hit 32 HR's, but I feel comfortable projecting him at 20+. He's coming off a shoulder injury and showed greatly improved power in the 2nd half, plus he fits perfectly with that short RF porch in Yankee Stadium.

The injury potential really is the big question, but I see him putting up multiple 7+ WAR seasons in the first 3-4 years of that contract, and being worth it even with the inevitable decline in years 5-7/8.

Yanks appear to be holding the line on Cano at 7/$170, not sure if it's a bluff. Mariners I believe are the new favorites at 8/$200 according to the rumor mill.