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#351 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Poles obviously outsmarted himself by holding on to Fields for as long as he did. I am not convinced that Poles is any good as a GM. For every good move there is a corresponding bad one, including a head scratcher or two. He HAS to get the right QB in this draft. No more mistakes.
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"Don't believe everything that you read on the Internet." -- Abraham Lincoln |
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#352 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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I saw him as just a hair below Lawrence when they came out in the draft.
Glad I don't evaluate players for a living. |
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#353 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
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It seems most young QBs fail now. If the Bears didn't draft Fields, they would have either drafted Mac, or they wouldn't have drafted a QB, and everyone would have been mad about that
Of these top 3 QBs now, 2 or all could bust. There may be no right QB to take. And all 3 of them will be in a tough situation on bad teams |
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#354 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Part of the reason that many QBs fail, I think, is the rush to get them on the field. As much as it pains me to write this, Green Bay seems to do it right. The new QB sits and learns from a good veteran. A team like the Bears, for example, can't even get a QB to be a good veteran -- their QB decisions have been awful. So they're forced to put their shiny new rookie on the field which hasn't worked out too well to put it mildly.
The last Bears QB to have a chance was Cutler -- who had talent -- but he had an O-line that made a sieve look like the Hoover Dam. Plus they really haven't had a good GM since Jim Finks, and that was a long, long time ago.
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"Don't believe everything that you read on the Internet." -- Abraham Lincoln |
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#355 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Roseville, CA
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Quote:
The Bears did it to Trubisky with a lame duck coach and a situation where he played too early. They did it to Fields after the plan was to sit him and let him learn. They played him too early. Now, will they play whomever they draft in April too early? You can hope he's more like Stroud and can hit the ground running, but history says he'll need some time. Hopefully that won't set the rookie down a path he can't recover from in 3 years. The Bears do have a better roster than most #1 picks walk into, one built to give a rookie QB a chance. Let's see if they've learned from history or are doomed to repeat it. |
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#356 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Newbury, England
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Quote:
You have to have a good veteran in the first place to be able to do this
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'A song is a beautiful lie', Idlewild, Self Healer. When you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you. Sports! |
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#357 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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And what if there isn't one? I think we know the answer to my rhetorical question: he's screwed
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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#358 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2004
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I think more teams should make sure they have a coach they are willing to ride the rough times out with and a system they trust in place before they draft a QB. You see some young guys that have a different system every season. No one would be able to thrive in that situation.
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#359 |
College Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
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#360 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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bahahaha
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#361 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Didn't I write that? "A team like the Bears, for example, can't even get a QB to be a good veteran -- their QB decisions have been awful."
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"Don't believe everything that you read on the Internet." -- Abraham Lincoln |
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#362 | |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Quote:
I'll stop there as the answer to the question is a definitive "Yes" -- there are a few years that have no good QBs and other years that are just meh. For Bears fans, let's hope 2024 isn't one of the no good QB years and that Poles finds the right guy. QB Draft History
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"Don't believe everything that you read on the Internet." -- Abraham Lincoln |
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#363 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
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That is not an option, is it? There is always HAS to be the right QB in the draft which is why so many teams HAVE to take a QB in a draft no matter what. The flaw teams and the league have made for themselves is making it so if you don't have a potential HOFer starting at QB for your team, you have almost no chance at ultimate success. Finding a QB is hard and while I get the whole take a QB whenever you get the chance until you find the one theory and theories similar to that, you still have to build the right team around the QB. Despite all of us knowing that it was not intentional, a team like the Falcons may have gotten it right. They seemed to have built a pretty team outside of the QB position, tried their luck with a young guy they drafted. When that did not work, they dropped a vet QB as a finishing touch. The Rams, Bucs, Jets and the Broncos seemed to have used a similar strategy to various levels of success. The Steelers are going in that direction as well. I hope Justin Fields can at least have a Geno Smith like career. I would love to see a controlled experiment where the Bears dropped their new rookie QB into the same team that they dropped Fields into to see who would make the better of that situation. But alas, they have decided to make sure their rookie QB had things like a true #1 receiver, improvements on the O-line and an all round improved defense. Let's see how a rookie QB fits into that sort of team. That is not to dissuade those that say that Fields is among the worst QB prospect in the history of the NFL and would have been horrible no matter the situation he was placed in. It is to say that by not putting their new QB in a similar situation, the Bears are acknowledging that it probably was not the best situation to put Fields in as they did.
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"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 |
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#364 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Fields would be awesome in the Taysom Hill role. But he's not the guy that can throw it 30+ times and win a game. Either his field vision is bad or his processing time. The reason doesn't actually matter. You can watch the film and see the result. Teams that needed a QB passed on him. Maybe the price was too high. (Poles isn't the brightest bulb.) That says a lot. Mike Tomlin's a very good coach, imo. Let's see if the Steelers pick up Fields' 5th year option by May 2. That will say even more about how the league feels.
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"Don't believe everything that you read on the Internet." -- Abraham Lincoln |
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#365 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
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Quote:
Commentary like this seem to indicate that Fields alone was the problem as if Andy Dalton, Trevor Siemien, Nathan Peterman, Nick Foles, and Tyler Bagent all were not right there to lead the Bears to their deserved glory with a juggernaut team and yet none of them were able to do so. That is my only point. Fields and Fields alone is not the reason the Bears were not successful while he was there. Because I mentioned Geno, I just googled reasons why Geno failed with the Jets. Here is what popped up. https://thejetpress.com/2016/01/26/n...-smith-failed/ 5. Offensive line 4. Less than adequate wide receivers 3. He did it to himself 2. Bad Coaching 1. It starts at the top That article was written right after Geno's 4th and final season with the Jets. From what I can tell, that seems like the same exact list Bears fans would have for the Fields era. The only difference is Fields was a first round pick that was traded up for him while Geno was a 2nd rounder. Fields has a great deal to learn in order to have a career like Geno has had. No one would have said that Smith would be a ten year vet and starting games for a playoff contender in year ten back when that article was published. I hope the same can be said for Fields
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"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 |
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#366 | |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Fields' supporters are going to use the five Geno Smith reasons as evidence that he's a good QB and it was the team that was the problem. That's simply just being blinded by some unwavering fantasy that Fields is a winning NFL starting QB even in the face of statistical and visual evidence to the contrary.
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"Don't believe everything that you read on the Internet." -- Abraham Lincoln |
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#367 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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I wonder how much the lack of interest was also knowing that you're probably going to have to give him the big extension.
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#368 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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No chance that the Steelers pick up the 5th year option, in my opinion. Steelers writers have indicated that Wilson will get a longer deal, for better or worse. He is apparently close with some of the minority owners from another business.
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#369 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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I just read that the 2025 Notre Dame recruiting class has the sons of Jerome Bettis, Plaxico Burress, and Ike Taylor.
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#370 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
They can't not take one in their current situation, I simply don't think there's one that will be a SB QB in this draft. And that's a pretty low bar, awe inspiring QB-skillz wise, to clear if we look at some QBs that have made it there. What I mean by "SB QB" is simply one that can, with whatever team around them, get a team to the SB. That's how overhyped I believe this class is. It's a Wizard of Oz bunch, each lacking some key component(s).
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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#371 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Roseville, CA
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Quote:
I would agree with most of this except the last part. A lot of people, including myself, that have supported Fields acknowledge that the problem is not binary. Fields had to do better with the chances he had. The team did as well. And I don't agree that Bagent looked better. He looked fine, but I would not want him in place of Fields. |
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#372 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Puyallup, WA
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The Bears line last year was at least above average in nearly any metric you could look at. Fields took a ton of sacks, but that was clearly a Fields problem and not a line problem. Fields took 44 sacks in 370 pass attempts while Bagent only took 5 in 143. That's where Bagent was better and it was a night and day difference with the offense. Bagent was able to make quick decisions and get the ball out of his hand, anticipating openings. For Fields, a receiver had to be wide open if it was anything inside the sidelines.
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#373 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Newbury, England
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Quote:
So you did! I guess reading the first sentence and the last sentence isn’t always the right way to go ![]()
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'A song is a beautiful lie', Idlewild, Self Healer. When you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you. Sports! |
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#374 | |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Quote:
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"Don't believe everything that you read on the Internet." -- Abraham Lincoln |
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#375 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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It really is a chicken/egg question as to whether the ‘consensus’ best QBs in the draft(s) are just misidentified or not developed by teams. The fact that guys like Brady, Mahomes, Lamar, and Rodgers have been among the most successful despite being passed on by more than half the league doesn’t make anything any more clear.
Here’s a McShay article from 2018 that does not hold up well. Todd McShay's NFL draft grades for every first-round QB since 2008, plus 2018's top QBs - ESPN Of guys over the past 15-20 years, I think I would’ve bet on Burrow, Lawrence, Winston, Newton, and Luck - with no titles and two of them already out |
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#376 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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That's the part we differ on, really the only point I was making. After seeing their college careers I wouldn't want any of this crop playing for any NFL team I cared about unless all I wanted was mediocrity. I believe we've already seen the ceiling reached for every big hyped name in the class.
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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#377 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
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#378 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
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Quote:
So you are saying I can't draw conclusions from comparing him to Bears quarterbacks who played in the same system that he did but you can draw conclusions based on comparisons to quarterbacks who in different systems with arguably better coaching that have in part allowed them to become A 2x NFL MVP and 3x SB MVP Another 2x NFL MVP A QB who led his team to an AFC title with a Jamarr Chase, Tee Higgins, Joe Mixon and others on the team. Justin Herbert You will get no argument from me. Justin Fields is not better than any of those QBs above. I see no evidence that he will ever be at this point. Justin Fields was not a perfect QB who was destroyed by the dysfunction that was the Bears over the last few years. Justin Fields has flaws that he needs to work on and he listen to proper coaching to help him to that. Even with all that Justin Fields may be an absolute bust as an NFL QB AND I don't think that anyone believes that dropping any of those QBs you mentioned as rookies into the 2021-2024 Bears would have been good for their development and would have allowed them to succeed at the same rate regardless of their talent. As we can see neither do the Bears because they are not doing the same thing all over again. I do think Justin Fields would be further along in his development if he had the opportunity to sit behind an Alex Smith for a year while being under the tutelage of Andy Reid, or be under the same HC/OC combo while being surrounded by the talent I listed above or even having the team doc stabbed the starter in the chest and take over an offense with a Keenan Allen (where did he just go?), a Mike Williams and a Austin Ekeler. I don't think it is ridiculous to think that if he gets better coaching and works on his flaws, Fields has the opportunity to back up an Eli Manning, then back up a Phillip Rivers, back up a Russell Wilson before getting his another shot and winning the Comeback Player of the Year. I just saw this happened with another quarterback that we all had completely drawn all the conclusions about after he left the Jets.
__________________
"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 |
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#379 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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Ok, I have gone through the same realignment as many on Fields, but let's be pretty clear:
-at this point nobody is considering him "the QB of the future" and assuming they will pick up his 5th year option and/or penciling him in for a fat market-setting contract -he's getting his shot in PIT likely as a backup and/or change or pace guy... apparently at his request... and that's where he fits right now -if he somehow plays himself into a Geno Smith situation where he compels this team or his next to reevaluate and pay him, great - but it will be based on stuff he has not yet shown on the field -and yeah, fantasy points and dazzling runs aside, he's not an intuitive passer, takes too many sacks, and hasn't shown the ability to really read defenses So, the "one late pick" market underscores all this. I know I was betting the over not long ago, just thinking someone was bound to be a combination of dazzled and desperate... but by now cooler heads have clearly prevailed. |
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#380 | |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Quote:
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"Don't believe everything that you read on the Internet." -- Abraham Lincoln |
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#381 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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okay this is bizarroworld...
But Justin Fields WANTED to be traded to the Steelers and vetoed other offers for him. Justin Fields trade: Steelers were 1 of 5 offers, per Ian Rapoport – NBC Sports Chicago I just....I just don't get it... |
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#382 | |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Quote:
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#383 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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The thing is, there's likely an offensive systems out there in which Fields and Wilson could perform at an above-average level (likely not the same system, but whatever), but, and this is the hard part, they'd have to buy into the fact that such a system is going to minimize their weaknesses.
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#384 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
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I feel like Payton squeezed every ounce out of Wilson he could. His numbers, superficially, look pretty good. He was still largely an ineffective QB if you watched a good bit of Denver play. But I guess we'll see. Perhaps more of it was on Denver's underperforming WR and no real star TE safety blanket. Samaje Perrine was basically the entire passing offense during 2 minute drills.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." Last edited by Ksyrup : 03-18-2024 at 07:50 AM. |
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#385 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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Payton got to the playoffs with Brees unable to throw past 15 yards.
And he made Trevor Simian look competent and Jameis Winston look decent. I think that it speaks volumes that he gave up on Wilson. |
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#386 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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Stepping back a bit to take in the bigger picture, it looks like every team has gotten smarter. 5 or 10 years ago, someone would have traded a first or second for Justin Fields. And someone would have given (oft-injured and questionably-motivated) Chase Young a 5-year deal with heavy bonus money. Now 31 teams (not counting Panthers) are operating at at least a C+ level.
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#387 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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As a Steelers' fan, I am pretty pleased with he two transactions together (three really, when you consider jettisoning Pickett).
The QB room needed a makeover because it was terrible. They collectively have only had 25 passing TDs over the past two seasons (and one was thrown by Chase Claypool of all people!). People can say Pickett never had a chance, but he was billed as a high floor/'low' ceiling first rounder that was already 24 years old in his rookie season. He got 24 starts, with some pretty solid offensive skill players, and had one game with a passer rating over 100 and only four with a rating over 90 (there were 18 QBs last year that averaged higher than 90 and 6 that averaged over 100). Wilson at a minimum salary and no compensation was a no brainer, since Mitch Trubisky and Mason Rudolph had already left the team. Whether as a starter or backup, they needed bodies and there is little risk there. With Fields, I don't think anyone is under the illusion that he is more than he is or that the Steelers got a steal. With that fifth year option lingering and making him have essentially a one-year deal, with the hope that he and the team work together well enough to see some signs of development. The hope is that the year together makes it worthwhile enough to stick, but not so much that he gets really good and leaves or forces their hand with a bigger deal. Now, with 4 top 100 picks, I assume they will either take another QB to develop or sign another veteran QB (Tannehill? Would've liked Huntley at the right price, but he just signed), and treat Fields as the developmental QB without the pressure of him needing to work out. At worst, they continue to have shitty QB play and are around .500 with their defense and run game and the only sacrifice is that they don't have a 26-year old, Pickett with the risk of him showing just enough to make them question the decision on his fifth year option next offseason. So, unless Pickett were to inexplicably breakout in a huge way this season, they are likely looking at a QB reboot in 2025 anyway. This way, they may catch something with Wilson for the next few years (coinciding with prime TJ Watt and Minkah Fitzpatrick) or Fields (unlikely) or they start over from scratch anyway. |
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#388 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Reading Albert Breer's tic-tock on the Cousin's deal, it sounds like Minnesota are all in on getting JJ McCarthy. They also have some hope in Darnold, but they are not banking on him being the future.
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#389 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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This is hilarious:
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#390 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
Where else could he really have gone and be in a better situation? He can basically draw his paycheck for the year without having to do a whole lot (or at least Pittsburgh better hope he can). At this point even he realizes that an immediate extra year of being a failed starting QB isn't going to help him much.
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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#391 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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I'm not saying that. I'm saying why would a team make a worse trade for themselves for a guy thst did nothing but trashtalk the staff
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#392 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
Ohhhh ... well that's kinda like bad relationships "it'll be different when he's with me"
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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#393 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
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Quote:
Betting that Wilson is washed and he'll get a shot by midseason. |
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#394 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: A sports era long ago when everything didnt require a Nike logo
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Its time for the annual Draft prediction.
Said last year that Jack Campbell was a Lion over a month in advance of the draft. There are many hardcore Detroit fans on FOFC and this forum is far from a bunch of fanboys. My man Brad is all in. We just signed a 34 year old guard from the Ravens. Great pickup, but a one year rental. Dont care. Do yourself a favor. Google/YT this guy. Hes got Honolulu Blue on already. Cooper Beebe. Could even drop OUT of the 1st round and pick him while snagging a future 2nd. Im really high on JPJ but so is everyone. Would take the right deal for the Lions to move up in Rd1 and snag him.
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Nobody cares about Kyle Orton because he's black. -PT |
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#395 | |
Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Quote:
The Lions have set themselves up to be pretty flexible in this draft. They still have needs at edge, corner and interior line, but they aren't as glaring as they were before free agency. I agree, Cooper Beebe, does very much look like a Lion. If they could get him in the second round, that would be fantastic.
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Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). |
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#396 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA
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Magical mystery Josh Dobbs tour continues in SF where he will back up Brock Purdy, and no doubt get into the Cards games and win.
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Coastal Carolina Baseball-2016 National Champion! 10/17/20-Coastal Football ranked in Top 25 for first time! Last edited by Thomkal : 03-19-2024 at 10:07 AM. |
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#397 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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Quote:
I'll add a Lions prediction: The Saints trade Marshon Lattimore and a mid-round pick to the Lions for their first round pick this year. Lions need a CB and, smartly, want to go all-in. Saints need to get younger and cheaper. |
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#398 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
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I am insanely pleased with the job Grier has done this offseason. Given the cap situation and free agent losses, he has far exceeded my expectations.
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Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner |
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#399 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
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Quote:
Is Josh Dobbs the modern day Charlie Batch?
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He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops. Like Steam? Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam |
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#400 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA
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I think he's one level up. ![]()
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Coastal Carolina Baseball-2016 National Champion! 10/17/20-Coastal Football ranked in Top 25 for first time! |
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