WW LXIV- The Wedding- GAME OVER GUESTS WIN

[Lathum]

ok, I am going to do a vote count so it may be a few. Sorry for the delay everyone

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Arles

IIRC, it was 4-3-2 (jh) with 5 people left to vote after I made my selection. If jeheinz picked up 1 vote and someone moved off olie, he would be tied for the lead. Ironically enough, CR did that seconds after I posted, but the point remained that being 2 down with 5 voters left isn't a lost cause. And, unless self preservation is in order, I'd prefer to vote for the person most resembling a werewolve over piling on others I don't feel as strongly about.

Oh, once last. Normally, you're right that 2 down with 5 voters left isn't a lost cause except: A) Schmidty couldn't vote, so that's four; B) you and Farrah and mau were three of the five, and you had all already voted; and C) it was already deadline.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

ok, I am going to do a vote count so it may be a few. Sorry for the delay everyone

Lathum, I think you should be good going forward from my post one page back. It has most of the votes up to 9:56 EST.

I believe it ended up 4-4 olie and mau tie, with jeheinz 3, clap 1, and ntn and Schmidty not voting.

[Raiders Army]

Rollin to bed everyone. I'll see what happened tomorrow. Hopefully I don't get killed.

[Lathum]

Mau: 4 (jeheinz72, oliegirl, DT, farrah)
jeheinz72: 3 (BK, Arles, CR)
oliegirl: 4 (Raider's Army, Passacaglia,clap, mauboy)
claphamsa: 1 (path12)

not voted NTN Deacon

[Lathum]

After the shocking day before you all can't bring yourselves to force someone to leave the hotel. You det.cide it is better to sleep on it and hope for the best

[Lathum]

You all are ready to adjourn to your room when a cab pulls up out front. NTNDeacon hops in and screams, "don't wait up!!!!" and rolls off.

[Lathum]

You all gather for breakfast the next morning and everyone is present and accounted for. Maybe the killing was random?

Day 3 has begun

[path12]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

No, you're probably spelling my name as P-A-T-H or something.

Heh.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Oh, once last. Normally, you're right that 2 down with 5 voters left isn't a lost cause except: A) Schmidty couldn't vote, so that's four; B) you and Farrah and mau were three of the five, and you had all already voted; and C) it was already deadline.

Good point on the time. I was just going by the summary above when I voted (which showed 5 left) and I didn't think it was as close to the deadline as it ended up being (1 minute - sheesh).

Any rate, I may be making to much of things as a first time player and outsmarting myself. Hopefully I don't anger the wrong people and become wolf meat here soon.

[Chief Rum]

Okay, so the tie wasn't so hot an idea.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Arles

Good point on the time. I was just going by the summary above when I voted (which showed 5 left) and I didn't think it was as close to the deadline as it ended up being (1 minute - sheesh).

Any rate, I may be making to much of things as a first time player and outsmarting myself. Hopefully I don't anger the wrong people and become wolf meat here soon.

Outsmarting oneself is a commonplace pasttime in WW games.

For instance, I outsmarted myself in thinking the tie mechanism would be something other than a bloodless tie. So now we don't know if olie or mayboy are wolves.

Fortunately, it appears our BG has made a good block. Perhaps we'll hear more today from him or her.

[path12]

Wow. Weirdness.

As I think most of you know, I'm not going to be around tomorrow, I plan on being back on Thursday, so I want to get a vote in now.

VOTE PASSACAGLIA

Go village!

[mauchow]

Farrah voted the experienced player... *SNOT BUBBLES JUST BLEW ALL OVER*

Oh and nobody died? Wow! Well guys, we caught a break as I don't think Olliegirl or myself is a wolfie. I suggest we find a different route and hopefully we can actually do something right today.

See you all tomorrow.

[Neon_Chaos]

You know it's lonely being the only dead guy. Apparently, everyone's either leaving the party, or getting thrown out.

I GET MURDERED!!!

Sigh.

[finketr]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

You know it's lonely being the only dead guy. Apparently, everyone's either leaving the party, or getting thrown out.

I GET MURDERED!!!

Sigh.

render got lynched.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by finketr

render got lynched.

Yeah, but he just pack his bags and left.

I GOT MURDERED!!!

[Chief Rum]

Okay, I have to put in a vote since I am out all day, too. I'm not too thrilled about Passacaglia's move either, but I am not convinced, and if I go with him, that will be two votes (mine and path's) that won't change today. I don't want to start a dogpile that can't be changed without good reason.

So I'm going to VOTE MAUBOY.

I'm not sure I buy that Arles didn't know the vote counts when he voted, so I am going on a hunch he might have been trying to save a wolf. I can't decide between oliegirl and mauboy, so going with my gut.

[Passacaglia]

Wow -- I thought I was the only GM who had ties result in no-kill these days. Glad to see I'm not the only touchy-feely GM out there.

Lathum -- did the wolves know a tie would result in no kill?

[Passacaglia]

Off to work, more when I get there.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Wow -- I thought I was the only GM who had ties result in no-kill these days. Glad to see I'm not the only touchy-feely GM out there.

Lathum -- did the wolves know a tie would result in no kill?

Why does this have to be true? What if the tiebreaker is Schmidty or was Render or Neon?

Anyhow, as expected, we know ties are to be avoided.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Why does this have to be true? What if the tiebreaker is Schmidty or was Render or Neon?

Anyhow, as expected, we know ties are to be avoided.

Which isn't to say that people shouldn't create them, because the pressure of a tie can lead to revealing results, just that we need to be VERY VERY careful with them.

[Barkeep49]

Ok the two players ringing alarm bells for me:

1. Pass - Unvotes for no discernible reason
2. CR - Was purposely attempting to create a tie

[Barkeep49]

Other things:

1. NTN appears to have been removed from the game. Why no alternate being used since a couple people have said they would be one? Could it be a game mechanic instead?

2. No kill. Conversion or blocked kill? I'm hoping that if it's a blocked kill the person who was the attempted killee knows it so we could establish which of those two it is. If it's a conversion I have no sense of what direction they might go in, so I can't really speculate about it at this time.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Lathum -- did the wolves know a tie would result in no kill?

no

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I find this interesting. This is ringing some bells with me. Pass, you say that you don't want to start a bandwagon on oliegirl, yet you piled on mauboy and then switched to oliegirl...both being bandwagons.

Based upon this,

VOTE PASS

I feel as if we aren't learning much at this point and we need to lynch someone today.

[jeheinz72]

Well that's an interesting day/night. Some thoughts

- Good gravy people, way to give a fella a heart-attack with all those late votes on me with no vote count!

- I think we have to look at those tie-creators and those who might've been saved by the tie.

- I worry that the night results are because somehow the baddies found the Groom (who is auto-protected once). It seems early for the BG to be clued in enough to make an educated protection order (beyond pure luck that is).

Thoughts? I'm not sure if I like a vote for Pass just yet.

[DaddyTorgo]

no, i don't think ntn was removed. he didn't vote and i think it just relates to that.

[finketr]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

2. No kill. Conversion or blocked kill? I'm hoping that if it's a blocked kill the person who was the attempted killee knows it so we could establish which of those two it is. If it's a conversion I have no sense of what direction they might go in, so I can't really speculate about it at this time.

query: what's a "conversion"?

possible new player here.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Why does this have to be true? What if the tiebreaker is Schmidty or was Render or Neon?

Anyhow, as expected, we know ties are to be avoided.

Huh? Why does what have to be true?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I find this interesting. This is ringing some bells with me. Pass, you say that you don't want to start a bandwagon on oliegirl, yet you piled on mauboy and then switched to oliegirl...both being bandwagons.

So I started two bandwagons? How does that make me wolfish? Look at how the votes went. I vote mauboy at something like 7:46, and come back to find that olie has voted right after me at around 8 PM. That really pinged my radar, and in that case, I can understand why the bandwagon started -- it probably pinged other people's radar, too.

VOTE OLIEGIRL

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by finketr

query: what's a "conversion"?

possible new player here.

A conversion is when someone who had been a good guy up to this point becomes a bad guy.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Huh? Why does what have to be true?

The idea that a tie automatically equals no lynch.

[jeheinz72]

I don't know if I'm buying the Olie thing. I noticed the follow up vote as well, but we're talking < 90 minutes to deadline, what should she do, wait just because it happens that she finally decided to vote how she's leaning. I'm not getting a wolf vibe from Pass either.

I'm leaning...

Mau again, same reason
BK, who has seemed skittish and flip-floppy (in his posts, not his votes necessarily)
One of Farrah, Arlie, CR for that strange end-of-day sequence.

[jeheinz72]

For now, Vote Barkeep49

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I don't know if I'm buying the Olie thing. I noticed the follow up vote as well, but we're talking < 90 minutes to deadline, what should she do, wait just because it happens that she finally decided to vote how she's leaning. I'm not getting a wolf vibe from Pass either.

I'm leaning...

Mau again, same reason
BK, who has seemed skittish and flip-floppy (in his posts, not his votes necessarily)
One of Farrah, Arlie, CR for that strange end-of-day sequence.

I'm not saying she should have waited. I'm saying that she DID wait. Look at her posts from 6 PM Central until her vote. She came in, off and on, and it seems like she waited until I voted for mauboy, then put in her own vote, thinking that it would be the nail in his coffin. Actually, I'm surprised that you aren't on the same wavelength here -- I feel like I'm in the position you were in yesterday. It's like I'm you, oliegirl is mauboy, mauboy is RendeR, and you're...me?

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I'm not sure I buy that Arles didn't know the vote counts when he voted, so I am going on a hunch he might have been trying to save a wolf. I can't decide between oliegirl and mauboy, so going with my gut.

I knew the vote counts, what I spaced on was that there was less than 5 minutes left when I posted. I referenced post 317 and knew it would be 4-3-2 after I voted with 5 left to vote. My mistake was not realizing there were only 4 minutes left so my jeheinz72 vote ended up being meaningless. Even if others left over were planning on voting for him, it's doubtful they would have logged in and voted for him in the last 3-4 minutes (it's not like this is an ebay auction ).

I'll probably vote a little earlier today so that I can go with my gut at the point where it may end up being a factor. I'm just having a tough time as I felt pretty solid about Jeheinz72 being a wolf last night, but now I have 2nd thoughts. Also, it's weird (and a little scary) that no one was taken out by the wolves. The best parallel would be if, early on in a game of clue, someone's guess couldn't be proven wrong by any of the players. It could be that the guesser had 2 of the cards, but it's still a little unsettling as it could also mean that person knows a heck of a lot more than they should. Tonight is shaping up to be a big protection night for the body guard, IMO.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

The idea that a tie automatically equals no lynch.

Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah -- but if that's not the case, then whatever happened is probably too confusing to figure out, with too little to gain. But if anyone wants to take that charge, feel free.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

For now, Vote Barkeep49

I'd love some example of seeming flipfloppy. We live in uncertain times in early days. So am I all over the place? You better believe it. I strongly question anyone who is otherwise considering that only the wolves know the truth then.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'd love some example of seeming flipfloppy. We live in uncertain times in early days. So am I all over the place? You better believe it. I strongly question anyone who is otherwise considering that only the wolves know the truth then.

Wait, so you challenge him for an example of you being flipfloppy, then proclaim that you damn well ARE flipfloppy? Man -- you're even flipfloppy about being flipfloppy!

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I'm not saying she should have waited. I'm saying that she DID wait. Look at her posts from 6 PM Central until her vote. She came in, off and on, and it seems like she waited until I voted for mauboy, then put in her own vote, thinking that it would be the nail in his coffin. Actually, I'm surprised that you aren't on the same wavelength here -- I feel like I'm in the position you were in yesterday. It's like I'm you, oliegirl is mauboy, mauboy is RendeR, and you're...me?

Yeah, and that's why I'm staying out of it frankly, it parallels where I was yesterday and that was a bad situation all around, since I'm not a wolf.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'd love some example of seeming flipfloppy. We live in uncertain times in early days. So am I all over the place? You better believe it. I strongly question anyone who is otherwise considering that only the wolves know the truth then.

Well I vote right after you and it's bad.
Olie does it after Pass and that's ok?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Well I vote right after you and it's bad.
Olie does it after Pass and that's ok?

Well, no -- the opposite. I think there's a difference between a vote that makes it 3-111111 and a vote that makes it 4-1111111. That may be minutia to some, but when you combine that with the way that 4th vote went down, plus olie's reaction to my vote, then there you have it.

(And I know this post wasn't directed at me, but I just wanted to chime in on how olie's vote was different from yours, in my opinion)

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Well I vote right after you and it's bad.
Olie does it after Pass and that's ok?

Naw that's not great either. But to me it was pass's needless unvote which raises far more suspicion. But you're right that ollie should be on my radar.

That said this really just sounds like you're frustrated with me that my vote was on you all day long more than anything.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Well, no -- the opposite. I think there's a difference between a vote that makes it 3-111111 and a vote that makes it 4-1111111. That may be minutia to some, but when you combine that with the way that 4th vote went down, plus olie's reaction to my vote, then there you have it.

(And I know this post wasn't directed at me, but I just wanted to chime in on how olie's vote was different from yours, in my opinion)

I get that, to a degree, but I don't see how the difference is large enough that 3-1111 is vote-worthy and 4-11111 is defense-worthy.

I mean if he had said nothing about Olie, I wouldn't have thought anything of it. Or if he had said nothing about mine but defended Olie, I'd think nothing of it. But the difference in the minutia and the difference in his reaction aren't jiving in my mind.

Does that make sense?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Naw that's not great either. But to me it was pass's needless unvote which raises far more suspicion. But you're right that ollie should be on my radar.

That said this really just sounds like you're frustrated with me that my vote was on you all day long more than anything.

I could care less that you voted for me. I'm still here, so it's all good. Like I said yesterday, I knew that if my Day One plan didn't go as I hoped, I'd get some heat. I take more issue with what you've posted than your vote. To me retalitory voting is simplistic and largely innaccurate in WW games.

[jeheinz72]

I guess it just seems to me BK that you are trying AWFULLY hard to stay in the middle on things. Like you voted for me since it was an obvious vote to make. You don't come out one way or another on really anything.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I get that, to a degree, but I don't see how the difference is large enough that 3-1111 is vote-worthy and 4-11111 is defense-worthy.

I mean if he had said nothing about Olie, I wouldn't have thought anything of it. Or if he had said nothing about mine but defended Olie, I'd think nothing of it. But the difference in the minutia and the difference in his reaction aren't jiving in my mind.

Does that make sense?

Man, you're seeing all kinds of things in this game that I'm missing. Where did BK defend olie?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

that was to pass. I called him passacaligula. and then someone masacred my named for 2-3 games.

Just going through old posts -- I thought that passacaligula was awesome, by the way.

[mauchow]

Vote Barkeep

Just thought I'd get it out there now. I've got a flag football game tonight going right through our deadline but I'll be around all day to see what goes on.

I'm not convinced of OllieGirl and not really convinced of anybody else right now. I don't really know why I'm voting for BK except maybe for a small thing or two that Heinz has mentioned already.