The Official 2021-2022 NBA Season Thread

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Hahaha what? Hawks have been listening on Collins for years now and needed to cut payroll after the Murray deal. Even after the Huerter deal they like Okungwu a ton (rightfully IMO) and don't think they need to pay >$40m to Collins & Capela (again probably correct.) Even the Lakers brain trust wouldn't be insane enough to ask for KAT for John Collins!

Except suddenly they think (right or wrong) that Collins + 1 other big might equal Durant ... and it ain't impossible at this point

And note: I didn't say they'd propose it. I said you weren't getting Collins instead of Gobert. Hawks didn't want picks

[jbergey22]

Some of these NBA championship odds are pure shit.

Suns +600(fair enough)
Warriors +620(would be my fav) (+450)
Bucks +640(sure)
Clippers +650 (utter BS, why?) (+2500)
Heat +1000(fair)
Lakers +1220(Utter BS like the Clippers line) )+2750)
76ers +1280(not seeing it, bad chemisty) (+2300)
Nuggets +2080(Return to healthy of Murray these odds make sense)
Grizzlies +2200 (Rising team with youth I would have them (+1500)
Mavs +2180 (The one man show losing their #2 guy, (+4000)
Nets (+3460) Worse chemisty than the 76ers(+7500)
Timberwolves (+4000) Like the Griz, up and coming team, 4 potential all stars(+2500)
Pelicans(+4300) I think this is low as well, Pelicans should be on a nice upward trajectory(+3000)
Bulls (+4620) Seems ok I guess, I think their odds might be a bit low, good talent on this team(+3500)
Hawks(+4500) Odds are too low, they match the Heat in talent(+1800)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Some of these NBA championship odds are pure shit.

Suns +600(fair enough)
Warriors +620(would be my fav)
Bucks +640(sure)
Clippers +650 (utter BS, why?)
Heat +1000(fair)
Lakers +1220(Utter BS like the Clippers line)
76ers +1280(not seeing it, bad chemisty)
Nuggets +2080(Return to healthy of Murray these odds make sense)
Grizzlies +2200 (Rising team with youth I would have them +1500
Mavs +2180 (The one man show losing their #2 guy, (+4000)
Nets (+3460) Worse chemisty than the 76ers(+7500)
Timberwolves (+4000) Like the Griz, up and coming team, 4 potential all stars
Pelicans(+4300) I think this is low as well, Pelicans should be on a nice upward trajectory
Bulls (+4620) Seems ok I guess, I think their odds might be a bit high, good talent on this team
Hawks(+4500) Odds are too low, they match the Heat in talent

Lakers & Clippers are currently the 2nd & 3rd most bet on teams. Suns have 3rd most dollars, just in larger bets.

Can't set the LA teams higher odds when they're already drawing 20'ish percent of the handle

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Lakers & Clippers are currently the 2nd & 3rd most bet on teams. Suns have 3rd most dollars, just in larger bets.

Can't set the LA teams higher odds when they're already drawing 20'ish percent of the handle

That is interesting. I can see people betting on the Lakers and Lebron but the Clippers really surprises me. A huge trade must be in the works.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

That is interesting. I can see people betting on the Lakers and Lebron but the Clippers really surprises me. A huge trade must be in the works.

At one point, IIRC, there was actually more money on the Lakers than on GS

[BishopMVP]

Re the Clippers people like the rest of the roster, they presumably have Kawhi and PG coming back healthy, and they're an LA team that always gets a bump in early NBA odds from LA fans going to Vegas.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Except suddenly they think (right or wrong) that Collins + 1 other big might equal Durant ... and it ain't impossible at this point

And note: I didn't say they'd propose it. I said you weren't getting Collins instead of Gobert. Hawks didn't want picks

Hawks took a 1st and two cheaper guys to shed some salary in the Huerter trade. They can gas up the fanbase like they're Danny Ainge but I'd bet they'd be willing to take a cheap guy like Jaden McDaniels and a 1st for Collins to help partially replenish what they sent out in the Murray deal. Okongwu is good and they want to put off paying the luxury tax. If you'd rather I say Myles Turner instead of John Collins, sure, whatever, but there are "rim protectors" available for much cheaper than the Wolves paid for Gobert. (Albeit ones who aren't currently quite as good - though I think the 4/$170 Gobert is owed is also a factor, as that also reduces flexibility.)

If you or they really think John Collins + 1 other big for Durant isn't impossible at this point idk what to say. It's absolutely a young star or a boatload of potentially high value picks at this point as a base, and John Collins is nowhere near that level (and the Hawks sent most of their pick capital to SA).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Re the Clippers people like the rest of the roster, they presumably have Kawhi and PG coming back healthy, and they're an LA team that always gets a bump in early NBA odds from LA fans going to Vegas.

Hawks took a 1st and two cheaper guys to shed some salary in the Huerter trade. They can gas up the fanbase like they're Danny Ainge but I'd bet they'd be willing to take a cheap guy like Jaden McDaniels and a 1st for Collins to help partially replenish what they sent out in the Murray deal. Okongwu is good and they want to put off paying the luxury tax. If you'd rather I say Myles Turner instead of John Collins, sure, whatever, but there are "rim protectors" available for much cheaper than the Wolves paid for Gobert. (Albeit ones who aren't currently quite as good - though I think the 4/$170 Gobert is owed is also a factor, as that also reduces flexibility.)

If you or they really think John Collins + 1 other big for Durant isn't impossible at this point idk what to say. It's absolutely a young star or a boatload of potentially high value picks at this point as a base, and John Collins is nowhere near that level (and the Hawks sent most of their pick capital to SA).

I didn't say _I_ entirely believed it, but it seems to have some traction. I think the Murray deal included 1-2 picks too many to leave them with enough to make the Durant thing work BUT I have seen people (non-Atlanta writers) who think Collins + Capela/Okongwu and whatever picks they can find might end up being the most palatable deal available in the end.

Hell, I'm on the record saying I suspected Durant waited to officially demand a deal until after Atlanta dealt themselves out of contention (with the Murray deal). But that it's still getting mentioned as a destination has me wondering

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I didn't say _I_ entirely believed it, but it seems to have some traction. I think the Murray deal included 1-2 picks too many to leave them with enough to make the Durant thing work BUT I have seen people (non-Atlanta writers) who think Collins + Capela/Okongwu and whatever picks they can find might end up being the most palatable deal available in the end.

Hell, I'm on the record saying I suspected Durant waited to officially demand a deal until after Atlanta dealt themselves out of contention (with the Murray deal). But that it's still getting mentioned as a destination has me wondering

I think Toronto makes the most sense? Even if they aren't willing to include Barnes they could do OG & Gary Trent + they have all their picks? Memphis would also be a huge possibility if they could keep JJJ out of it - Bane, Zaiare Williams & Steven Adams + they're actually +1 in future 1st's? Pels? Utah if they will settle for just picks? I don't think the Celtics want to do a Jaylen Brown + a pick or two (and Derrick White for $$$ reasons) for him deal, though I'd be very intrigued. Suns are still very much an option if it's like Bridges + Cam Johnson as a base. Idk I just don't see it getting down to the level John Collins is a headliner without having at least a Gobert level pick haul in return and the Hawks simply don't have that option anymore. We'll see though, so many of these teams that hold out for exorbitant packages for disgruntled superstars seem to end up getting them in the end, but eventually one won't get what they want.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Hahaha what? Hawks have been listening on Collins for years now and needed to cut payroll after the Murray deal. Even after the Huerter deal they like Okungwu a ton (rightfully IMO) and don't think they need to pay >$40m to Collins & Capela (again probably correct.) Even the Lakers brain trust wouldn't be insane enough to ask for KAT for John Collins!

They really don't have to. They have plenty of options. If they were just going to dump Collins, they have had many opportunities. They are willing to move Collins for an improvement for the team now, not just move salary.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Re the Clippers people like the rest of the roster, they presumably have Kawhi and PG coming back healthy, and they're an LA team that always gets a bump in early NBA odds from LA fans going to Vegas.

Hawks took a 1st and two cheaper guys to shed some salary in the Huerter trade. They can gas up the fanbase like they're Danny Ainge but I'd bet they'd be willing to take a cheap guy like Jaden McDaniels and a 1st for Collins to help partially replenish what they sent out in the Murray deal. Okongwu is good and they want to put off paying the luxury tax. If you'd rather I say Myles Turner instead of John Collins, sure, whatever, but there are "rim protectors" available for much cheaper than the Wolves paid for Gobert. (Albeit ones who aren't currently quite as good - though I think the 4/$170 Gobert is owed is also a factor, as that also reduces flexibility.)

If you or they really think John Collins + 1 other big for Durant isn't impossible at this point idk what to say. It's absolutely a young star or a boatload of potentially high value picks at this point as a base, and John Collins is nowhere near that level (and the Hawks sent most of their pick capital to SA).

Huerter was going to be the third SG next season. He did need to be traded for salary because he had little value court-wise for the money. Collins is still a solid starter, and one of the best pick and roll guys in the NBA. They will not dump him unless it is to improve the product on the court.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I think it does vault them into the top tier. Ant is is going to be elite and the addition of Gobert helps cover up KATs weakness. Wolves have been accumulating 1st's for years and hasnt landed them a playoff series win in almost 20 years.

Does it?

The Wolves were 7th in the conference behind the Suns, Grizzlies, Warriors, Mavs, Jazz and Nuggets. Obviously, the Jazz are going to drop out but are the Wolves better than those other teams? Are we sure they are better than the slightly over hyped Clippers who finished four games behind them without a healthy Kawhi or Paul George?

[BishopMVP]

Washington gave Beal 5/$251 plus a full NTC and a 15% trade kicker. It's the Rudy Gobert trade of FA re-signings!

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Washington gave Beal 5/$251 plus a full NTC and a 15% trade kicker. It's the Rudy Gobert trade of FA re-signings!

Gilbert Arenas, John Wall, Bradley Beal...

I am noticing a pattern with this franchise.

[JonInMiddleGA]

A lot of NBA franchises seem to be their own worst enemy.

[stevew]

I just checked and the Wolves still have Jaden McDaniels so it’s a major win for them.

[miami_fan]

Sources: James Harden is taking a $15 million paycut for next season that allowed Philadelphia to elevate roster — with sole focus on a championship run in 2023. Harden opted out of his $47M player option and now plans to sign a new two-year deal with a player option in Year 2.

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) July 8, 2022

[BishopMVP]

Hate to give Harden appreciation especially when he's still making $100 million, but sometimes “Normal people keep the world going, but those who dare to be different lead us into tomorrow." so credit where it's due.

Jimmy Butler was also predictably excited for PJ Tucker joining the 76ers (though I think he was joking and only hates the organization not PJ & Joel).

[stevew]

There’s no fkn way I’m paying lilliard 42.5/45.6/48.8/approx 58/approx 63

It doesn’t matter how much the salary cap is, it’s just scary to give a guy that’s going to be 32-36 that much money.

[miami_fan]

I don't know.

The Warriors have paid and will pay Steph $45.8, $48.0, $51.9, $55.6, $59.6 to go from age 33 to 38 based on the extension he signed last year. I am not saying Dame is Steph on the court. But it appears he is him as a franchise icon.

[miami_fan]

So um am I the only one who thinks Donovan Mitchell overrated?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

So um am I the only one who thinks Donovan Mitchell overrated?

It's probably a short list, yeah.

[stevew]

I think that Gobert trade was so ridiculous that it’s going to be hard to make deals for obviously better players like Mitchell or Durant.

[BishopMVP]

I think a lot depends on whether Mitchell will try harder on defense under a guy like Thibs, without Rudy behind him, and without quite as much of an offensive load. (And whether you want to kind of build your franchise around a guy with questionable effort on that end.) He has a lot of Westbrook to his game...

Either way I see him going to New York for like 5 1st's and Quickley, but who knows maybe they're desperate enough to include RJ Barrett. I don't see any team (mainly Toronto) caving on Durant and meeting the Nets asking price, and frankly I'm not sure Brooklyn wants to or if they just want to run it back unless he starts being unprofessional as we near the start of the season.

[miami_fan]

Effort is definitely an issue but how much better is the 6'1" Mitchell going to get defensively?

[BishopMVP]

On/off defensive +/- by the year - -3.6, -0.5, +1.9, +5.5, +4.6. He had a rep as a good defender in college, clearly tried harder earlier in his career, and it's not like he had defensive savants show up to back him up - the Jazz lineups with 34y/o Mike Conley paired with Jordan Clarkson in the backcourt were light years better.

Pairing him with Brunson and making Thibs coach them would be glorious and classic Knicks though, so hopefully we can see that.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Pairing him with Brunson and making Thibs coach them would be glorious and classic Knicks though, so hopefully we can see that.

This is why I'll never get why every major free agent or player who wants to be traded has a list of teams that includes "Title favorite A, Title favorite B, Contender C, Contender D, and the Knicks". Until they show otherwise, they're still the Knicks.

SI

[stevew]

Yeah the Knicks get hyped like they’re the Yankees or Giants when they’re clearly the Jets or Mets.

[miami_fan]

Phoenix Suns' Deandre Ayton signing 4-year, $133M maximum contract offer sheet with Indiana Pacers, agents say

It has been a while since we have seen one of these. I am curious if the Pacers put a poison pill in the deal to force the Suns' hand. Either way, my guess is the Suns won't match.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

This is why I'll never get why every major free agent or player who wants to be traded has a list of teams that includes "Title favorite A, Title favorite B, Contender C, Contender D, and the Knicks". Until they show otherwise, they're still the Knicks.

SI

How many actually want to go there, how many just want to use the Knicks as leverage, and how many are really the Knicks and their fans pretending they're in the mix? But New York itself is a draw - Carmelo's wife wanted to live there, Jalen Brunson is more or less from the area, Kemba was too (and we can laugh at that FA signing, but it was considered a win a year ago!)



Allegedly Ayton hasn't signed the offer sheet yet, so maybe they're still pushing for an S&T involving Turner? Idk, I hope he just signs at this point, Suns have been ridiculous this whole process.

[stevew]

There’s no real poison pills left. Other than maybe payment structures.

[stevew]

Ayton back on the Suns. Can't be traded til like 3 months into the Season and not for a year without his consent. I think he can't get traded to the Pacers for a year also.

Not sure what Indy would even want to do going forward but I have some thoughts

My wild projected trade would be

Ind-Westbrook, Picks from LAL
Lakers-Kyrie, Miles Turner
Nets-Giant trade exception for Kyrie's entire salary that can be rolled over into summer 2023 if needed. Minor Draft considerations.

[miami_fan]

Now that Deandre Ayton has resigned, what was the Suns' strategy re: his negotiations? Someone was always going to try to sign him to the max deal so it can't be the money. Did they go through all this because they did not want to sign him to the extra year?

[rjolley]

Probably trying to do a sign and trade, didn't get any offers they liked, and decided to match any offers for him. He may be on the trading block come the deadline.

[stevew]

The Suns aren’t run very smart is the easy answer

[stevew]

Also it’s not like a super big deal, but Indianapolis had to wave and stretch three guys just to make this offer that got immediately matched.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by rjolley

Probably trying to do a sign and trade, didn't get any offers they liked, and decided to match any offers for him. He may be on the trading block come the deadline.

I don't even mean this summer. I am talking about when the Suns did not offer the max right off the bat when he was eligible coming off the Finals appearance. It's plug and play. 5 year max deal for Ayton. I think that has to go into a team's thinking from the time they decided to draft a player especially in that top five range. If a team does not think a player that they drafted in the top five is not worthy of that 5 year max deal when the time comes, I think they should move him on sooner rather than later. I also expect him to be on the trading block when eligible.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I don't even mean this summer. I am talking about when the Suns did not offer the max right off the bat when he was eligible coming off the Finals appearance. It's plug and play. 5 year max deal for Ayton. I think that has to go into a team's thinking from the time they decided to draft a player especially in that top five range. If a team does not think a player that they drafted in the top five is not worthy of that 5 year max deal when the time comes, I think they should move him on sooner rather than later. I also expect him to be on the trading block when eligible.

I agree, it was odd that they were so reluctant to sign him but matched the offer so quickly. Why not move him earlier to maximize his value? A trade after his good showing on the run to the Finals would've been best but when you have a legit shot at returning to the Finals, was there a move to shake up the roster that would've enhanced their chances?

[BishopMVP]

Conspiracy hat - what if the Suns had been shitting on him privately and now publicly for months to try and depress his value in the market?

Ok I doubt that, and I can see why they didn't want one guaranteed year of Myles Turner plus a couple picks as the return, but they sure as hell don't want him at $33 million a year and I don't know how much trade value he has at that number either (until the cap spikes). Idk, Rudy got a ton back in trade while making $47m/y, but it sure seems like the Suns were asking other teams to value Ayton in trades at a level they were publicly indicating they did not value Ayton.

[miami_fan]

There Is No Active Player That Has Played Against The Sacramento Kings In The Playoffs - Fadeaway World

This has been out there for a few days and I have not seen any corrections that would make it false. Given the anyone can make the playoffs nature of the NBA, this is an amazing stat and will explain why the Kings would sell the farm this season just to make the play in tournament.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I have not seen anything to suggest that Steve Nash would be a good NBA head coach. I think he should lose his job because of that but it would be harsh given the Kyrie affected regular season. If Nash is going to remain the head coach, the team really need to hire whoever the 2022 versions of Tex Winter, Johnny Bach and Jim Cleamons to help him until he figures this thing out.

In a meeting with Nets owner Joe Tsai, Kevin Durant reiterated his trade request and informed Tsai that Tsai needs to choose between Durant or the pairing of general manager Sean Marks and coach Steve Nash, sources say.

Story: https://t.co/W1voNf9MDC

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) August 8, 2022

[flere-imsaho]

The contracts! They mean nothing!

[miami_fan]

Well that was fun.

Brooklyn Nets, Kevin Durant meet, agree to 'move forward' together after star's trade demands

I have mixed feelings with this. I agree with not trading KD. KD is not James Harden or Ben Simmons. He was always going to come in, play and play at 100%. On the other hand, it feels like KD has screwed the Nets by forcing the Nets to support a bad coach to prove that KD and Kyrie are not running things.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Well that was fun.

Brooklyn Nets, Kevin Durant meet, agree to 'move forward' together after star's trade demands

I have mixed feelings with this. I agree with not trading KD. KD is not James Harden or Ben Simmons. He was always going to come in, play and play at 100%. On the other hand, it feels like KD has screwed the Nets by forcing the Nets to support a bad coach to prove that KD and Kyrie are not running things.

The same coach that Kyrie and Durant wanted because they didn't actually want to be coached.

[stevew]

Holmgren out entire season. Lisfranc injury.

[miami_fan]

Per Woj, Donovan Mitchell is heading to Cleveland

[miami_fan]

Cleveland will send three unprotected first round picks and two pick swaps as part of the deal to Utah for Mitchell, sources tell ESPN. https://t.co/vfphmFMIAf

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) September 1, 2022

[miami_fan]

Per Shams, the Jazz are getting Collin Sexton, Lauri Markkanen, Ochai Agbaji, three first-round picks and two pick swaps in return.

[sterlingice]

Jazz going to be a fun team to play as in NBA2K franchise mode...

SI

[rjolley]

That's a good deal for both sides. It sets up Cleveland to be a serious threat over the next few years with Mitchell, Garland, Mobley, and Allen. And the Jazz take a flier on Sexton returning to form and Agbaji growing into the player he showed the potential to become over the last year at Kansas. If they don't work out, they have 5 picks to try and bring in fresh talent.

I'm surprised the Knicks couldn't put together a better deal. Steven A and Spike Lee are probably out somewhere drinking their sorrows away.

[stevew]

Man it’s hard to believe that we gave up less for Mitchell than the wolves gave up for a center that can’t even stay on the floor in crunch time