Werewolf Small game XII- The game thread. GAME OVER VILLAGERS WIN!

[Alan T]

I'm not sure what else to say right now. I don't really have anything to talkk about since I dont really learn much from the vote here right now. Ntn's vote didnt really affect things too much, DT can throw away his vote since he is not under pressure and Path pretty much doesnt have anything he can do.. so nothing really to call out the last wolf to save one of their own.

[st.cronin]

If I was here I'd be posting.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

If I was here I'd be posting.

probably reminding me how dumb I am at times

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Alan T

probably reminding me how dumb I am at times

By the way, I was a villegar in this game.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

By the way, I was a villegar in this game.

I noticed

Well I am 50/50 for the past two games. Next game is the bumper round.

[ntndeacon]

well we have deadline

[Lathum]

deadline

[DaddyTorgo]

I just assumed I was a goner and so I didn't come back into the thread.

relieved to see i'm not.

[Lathum]

The mob gathers again, screaming for blood, this time the remaining few of you turn towards Path and grab him. Someone pulls a piece of the banister and thrusts it through Paths heart. He takes one last breath and gasps " villager, it's villager" and goes limp. Path was an innocent victim.


(2) Daddytorgo - Alan (301), Path (330)
(4) Path12 - Hoopsguy (312), Peregrine (324), Kwhit (326) NTNdeacon (347)
(1) Alan - DaddyTorgo (320)

[hoopsguy]

Another banner day.

KWhit, we really suck if we miss on our 66% chance at a wolf tomorrow.

[Alan T]

Well I know who the wolves are now

[hoopsguy]

Path, going back to Day 1 votes - you were right

[Peregrine]

Well see you guys later, hope you can take the wolves down without me.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well I know who the wolves are now

you've known all along. Easy when you are one, hmm?

[path12]

Told ya. Good luck all.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well I know who the wolves are now

Yep, if we buy that your PM didn't read "You are a wolf and you would like to eat all the villegars" then it should be pretty straight-forward

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well I know who the wolves are now

with only 3 uncleared. Obviously all three of us know who the wolves are.

[Lathum]

You all wake up and gather in the lobby, all but one of you. Peregrine is found in his bed. Throat ripped to shreads.

[hoopsguy]

Shocking.

Today should be an interesting day. I would reallly like to see the non-cleared candidates open up on why they are the non-wolf out of the group. I've got my thoughts on how this shakes out, but I'm going to hold off for the moment on casting a vote.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Shocking.

Today should be an interesting day. I would reallly like to see the non-cleared candidates open up on why they are the non-wolf out of the group. I've got my thoughts on how this shakes out, but I'm going to hold off for the moment on casting a vote.

I thought alot about how i was going to play today. Obviously our winning or losing depends on my convincing Kwhit and Hoopsguy (The two people I pressed the hardest this game) that I'm actually on their team. My voting record has been atrocious this game, I was wanting to vote Kwhit day 1, Hoops day 2 (ended up voting Cronin who was an even worse choice as the Hunter). The only good reads that I have had this entire game was yesterday morning (Monday evening after lynch) where I finally realized DaddyTorgo was a wolf, and earlier in the game when I read Ntn's play and got a really weird vibe from it and even made a comment that perhaps I would just vote him instead. Unfortunatly at that time I had an even more odd vibe from Hoops' play and kept focused on it.

So my voting records have been horrible, and I really haven't done anything I can point to and say "See? Would a wolf do this?" I think its been so long since I've actually been a wolf that its hard for me at times to even think about what I would do as a wolf in a certain situation to use it as an example of why I'm not a wolf here.

The only thing i can really say is that I've been wrong alot this game, however every step of the way without exception I have given in detail why I was doing what I was doing. When I was wrong about Kwhit on day 1, I explained why I felt he was possibly bad based on his play and I expressed with reasons why I felt Kwhit was a very smart player and his play was what I would picture a smart wolf doing. I honestly believed Kwhit was the wolf through most of day 2 as well. I sat and waited and waited and waited for a fellow wolf to come save him. I purposely set up the vote to make it very easy for a wolf to save him with some plausible reason that wouldn't out themselves. Yet no one ever did. No one lifted a finger to save Kwhit, which in a small game with only 2 wolves was unconceivable for me. I felt at that point that Kwhit was not the wolf.

I still felt Hoops was the wolf at that point after the Cronin lynch, but that night I thought about it more (I often tend to play scenerios through my head during the night while laying in bed which is why I usually put night actions in during the morning in games that I have night actions). I thought to myself that I really was suprised that I was still alive. Yes the searching out the seer probably did make sense, but I also figured at some point they would take me out as well. Luckily for me I guess they never did find the seer, so never had a kill to spare to kill me off. I started thinking though, if Path was left alive, if I was left alive, why would Hoops as a wolf leave the two most vocal people against him alive? It would be very easy to kill me off and then have many different reasons why I was chosen.. yet we both were still alive. Thats one reason I wasn't so sure Path was the wolf and never voted for him yesterday as well. It felt like the room was purposely set to get Hoops lynched yesterday.

I thought about who would be the wolves in that scenerio.. I felt Kwhit still was good, and I looked back at the previous day's vote. How DaddyTorgo behaved inconsistantly, how he basically stirred the pot, but then when given the chance to be the hero, he completely disappeared without reason or rhyme. And I felt it important to jump out right away to vote him to make sure I held the tiebreaker on him if it came up again. Obviously the way things played out yesterday it never was an issue, but I had him figured out by that point. Ntn is a bit sneakier. He's laid low the entire game and hasn't really done anything bad or good that stands out. You can't nail down a fish so to speak, and he's stayed completely out of the spotlight. I wish I could point to something specifically that he did that would hilight why he's a wolf, but honestly speaking other than yesterday, the first two days he probably voted better for the village than I did.

I know how I plan on playing today vote wise, but I am at a disadvantage, I won't have anyone that comes to save me if I get in trouble. So I'm going to have to just hope Kwhit and Hoops believe me over the other two I suppose. I wish I had some magical thing to point to and say "See that proves I'm not a wolf", but I don't. I could suggest to lynch DT today and see that I was right yesterday, but that doesn't prove anything, and if Ntn and i were the wolves, it would just end the game for you as well. I think in the end this is going to end up just like Animal farm for you Hoops. you will be left with 3 people and 2 of them are bad, and you are going to have to make the decision on which to go for. You remember how i played that game when you had to choose 2 of the 3, I will play today differently. I'm leaving it in your and Kwhit's hands to decide.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I remember Animal Farm pretty well. Which is why I want to see what ground people stake out early and then assess whether or not I believe the positions they are taking.

[hoopsguy]

KWhit, it is obvious that we are going to need to agree on a candidate and expect the third villager to follow us. So when you are around for discussion I think that is the direction we should head.

Up until now we have both extended a fair amount of credit to Alan - are we planning to continue in this direction today? If so, then which of the other two are the more likely wolf in your mind?

[DaddyTorgo]

Why I'm not a wolf:

All I can offer in defense of my offering little analysis is (like i posted in this thread and the hatfield one before the game started) is that my plate looked fairly full this week so I might not be as deeply analytical as I was say...in Peregrine's game where I was busting out percentages and driving things.

I wouldn't say that my voting record has been spotless, but the one thing it has been has been consistent.

I voted Kwhit early on Day 1 (turns out not a good choice) but I stuck with that vote all day long. Random D1 vote.

Day 2 I voted st. cronin, along with Alan btw. Again, neither of us were on a wolf as it turns out, but there was a lot of discussion going around. That was the day where it came down to hoops vs. cronin i believe, and I had a stronger feeling that cronin was a wolf based on his earlier comments, particularly before the game started.

Day 3 I voted Alan. His play has seemed "off" to me the whole game. He hasn't been his usual self I don't think, and couple that with his no-vote on D1 and his pushing things back onto me at the deadline the other night when I had repeatedly stated earlier that i felt that kwit and hoops were equally valid targets in my mind and i didn't see a reason to be the one to make the change (again, a wrong decision in hindsight given Peregrine's reveal).

I know I'm not the last wolf among the uncleared. I echo what hoops said about ntn...he's been his usual quiet self, hard to get a read on really.

My usual MO as a villager is to sling things around, see what generates interest among my fellow villagers, and go with it. In games where for whatever reason I am "off" I tend to sit back a little more, trying to build consensus.

I don't think I've been exceptionally "sling things around and not follow through." I think that's a malicious brush to paint me with in this game. On the contrary, the one thing I have slung out there is that Alan's play has seemed off to me all game. And I followed that up on D3 by voting for him, and keeping my vote there even as things went in an entirely different direction. Call it "me finding my WW-stones" or whatever, or finally getting up to speed with this game (one advantage of larger games, you can ease into it a little more versus a game like this where you have to be on your game from the first second).

I'm not going to get all frustrated and aggrivated again like I did last game when it came down to CR and ntn and me, because that didn't do any good except make CR feel bad or whatever. I just know that I'm not a wolf, and Alan's play has seemed "off" to me from the first day. He's not typically one to miss votes, particularly in a small game*. My votes, misguided as they might have been (along with everyone else's who isn't cleared I'd like to point out), have been consistent with what I felt the biggest threat was. You can't say the same about Alan, who no-voted on D1, voted St. Cronin with me on D2, but then seemingly inexplicably jumped over to vote for me 1st thing on D3, on the excuse that I didn't move my vote the night before, despite my not knowing if either of the two of them were bad with any certainty, and stating to kwit earlier that i felt it was more or less a tossup. Alan was around to late-switch right before the deadline though, conviently without leaving me any time to followup and switch as well, and then turn around and blame me for it.

*Alan, if there was a RL-reason for missing the votes I of course apologize and retract my use of this as evidence against you, regardless of whether you are a wolf or not, but as best I can remember you havn't indicated that there was.

VOTE ALAN T

getting it out there early

[hoopsguy]

I was hoping KWhit would be around this morning, because I've got more time for a back-and-forth discussion now than I will this afternoon. I thought today had the potential to be a really fun free-for-all day where everyone puts their cards out there and we debate like crazy for a couple of hours, but it certainly isn't headed in that direction yet.

[KWhit]

I'm here now.

I felt really strange about ST's actions that night that the vote was between me and Hoops and cronin. Knowing that all three of us are villagers makes his actions less suspicious.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I'm here now.

I felt really strange about ST's actions that night that the vote was between me and Hoops and cronin. Knowing that all three of us are villagers makes his actions less suspicious.

ST from above should be DT - DaddyTorgo.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm around, although i should get lunch, i should be around this afternoon too

[KWhit]

Hey ntn. What's going on?

[KWhit]

Ntn, care to state your case? Cause you're smelling pretty wolfish to me right now.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I was hoping KWhit would be around this morning, because I've got more time for a back-and-forth discussion now than I will this afternoon. I thought today had the potential to be a really fun free-for-all day where everyone puts their cards out there and we debate like crazy for a couple of hours, but it certainly isn't headed in that direction yet.

Not really sure what else I can say that I haven't already said. I could go through and respond to DT's accusations against me about things like "missing" the day 1 vote, when in actuality I was an active participant in those discussions and made my choice pretty publically known. I could refute his comments about me playing "weird" this game , even though I don't generally have a model that I use when I try to play every game so I make sure to always play the same. I guess I was more worried about trying to figure out who was good or bad the first few days than I was about what others would perceive of me.

I don't really know what type of back and forth discussion you are looking for at least involving me Hoops. I feel I have pretty much laid out my feelings every step along the way about why I felt what I did and what made me draw those conclusions, even when accusing you I felt I pointed specifically at what made me feel the way I did the entire way. I guess if you have questions you would like to ask me or things you aren't sure of why I felt the way I did, or why I did what i did, I would be happy to answer them.

[hoopsguy]

And it looks like the crew is all here now.

KWhit - why does the fact that all three Day 2 candidates were villagers make you feel better about DaddyTorgo? A villager has no way of knowing the roles of the three people there, so do you think that he would be more/less likely to take a shot as a villager or wolf?

[ntndeacon]

Well, I am not a wolf either.
First the voting doesn't say much one way or the other. I voted for the cleared hoops on day one and the cleared KWhit on day two, and path who was also a villager on day three.

So let's look at the other posts I have done. On the night I was here before the deadline I was ready to change my vote to whereever it was needed. And I did not give much analysis of event, but I hardly ever do.
In terms of what y'all believe, I think it should be evident to you cleared few that Alan and I are on different teams. Basically this is seen from them misunderstanding over whether I would follow him onto Kwhit on night 2. So having concluded that we are on different teams, then that clarifies the action for today at least. In terms of out talking, Alan is better at that than I am it is one of the reasons I tend to be short worded. But I think he would agree that DT is a wolf.

[ntndeacon]

Vote DT

[hoopsguy]

2nd question, KWhit - do you see any of the following combinations that you don't think could be playing together this game?

Alan/DT
Alan/NTN
DT/NTN

If so, lets discuss who and why.

[ntndeacon]

I can discuss this more later but I have a test to proctor first. So I will be back about 3 central

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Well, I am not a wolf either.
First the voting doesn't say much one way or the other. I voted for the cleared hoops on day one and the cleared KWhit on day two, and path who was also a villager on day three.

So let's look at the other posts I have done. On the night I was here before the deadline I was ready to change my vote to whereever it was needed. And I did not give much analysis of event, but I hardly ever do.
In terms of what y'all believe, I think it should be evident to you cleared few that Alan and I are on different teams. Basically this is seen from them misunderstanding over whether I would follow him onto Kwhit on night 2. So having concluded that we are on different teams, then that clarifies the action for today at least. In terms of out talking, Alan is better at that than I am it is one of the reasons I tend to be short worded. But I think he would agree that DT is a wolf.

In terms you and Alan being on different teams, I think you could argue the same thing about Alan and DT being on different teams based on their interactions with each other at the end of Day 2. Your reference to KWhit was at the end of Day 1.

The only way both of those make sense is if you and DT are on the same team, and I'm sure that is not the point you are trying to make - right?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Well, I am not a wolf either.

...

I think it should be evident to you cleared few that Alan and I are on different teams.
...

So having concluded that we are on different teams, then that clarifies the action for today at least. In terms of out talking, Alan is better at that than I am it is one of the reasons I tend to be short worded. But I think he would agree that DT is a wolf.

If you and Alan are on different teams, then it would seem strange for you guys to agree on your choice today.

[DaddyTorgo]

dammit NTN. I'm not a wolf. But I guess I ought to expect this based on how you screwed me last game too hmm? Might as well bend over and take it again from you, although the circumstances are different...us on different sides this time.

[DaddyTorgo]

if i was a wolf i'd assume one of them was trying to hide on me. but since i'm not i guess the conclusion is that they're both wolves and they're playing 2nd level and both trying to hide on me to push me on you guys. if they both agree on a choice of targets doesn't that strike you guys as weird?

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

And it looks like the crew is all here now.

KWhit - why does the fact that all three Day 2 candidates were villagers make you feel better about DaddyTorgo? A villager has no way of knowing the roles of the three people there, so do you think that he would be more/less likely to take a shot as a villager or wolf?

Hmmm.... It made sense to me earlier, but now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not so sure. Let's look at the possibilities:

DT had two choices when the vote was getting late:

1-Throw a vote out there on one of us and effectively lead the charge (or at least be one of the key decising votes).
2-Hold back and see what Alan or I do first.

He chose #2.

My original thinking (before Peregrine's reveal) was that this was suspicious because he didn't want to be seen leading the charge against someone who would come up as a villager.

Post reveal when we found out all three of us were villagers it didn't stick out as much to me and I started to believe that it was just indecisiveness. But the same theory holds, I suppose, that if DT was a wolf and knew that all 3 were villagers, why not hold back and just let the rest of us decide to kill one of our own.

But I feel that he brought too much attention to himself with the way he went about it. Saying "hey guys! We have a block now. What do you want to do?" It would seem to be a smarter wolf play to just make a semi-decent case against one of the three of us and make a vote.

Having said all that, I didn't like the way he just totally disappered at the end there. So maybe me statements about "feeling better" about him now are overstated. I feel a tiny tiny tiny bit better about him, but he and ntn still worry me.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

If you and Alan are on different teams, then it would seem strange for you guys to agree on your choice today.

I don't plan on agreeing with ntn on a vote choice, I don't plan on doing it with DT either. I also have no desire to interact with them in conversation. I know their allegiance and they know mine. I don't understand the reason why he needs to appeal to me at all. If he is good and I am bad, why do I need to work with him at all? Thats the reason I chose not to even respond to DT's accusations at me earlier either. There is nothing to convince him of, he knows what side I am on, just as I know what side he is on.

I'll try to work with you and Kwhit in answering any questions you have, but the decision is left up to you two to win or lose unfortunatly.

[hoopsguy]

KWhit, does the last post indicate that Alan is still the most trusted out of the three for you?

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I don't plan on agreeing with ntn on a vote choice, I don't plan on doing it with DT either. I also have no desire to interact with them in conversation. I know their allegiance and they know mine. I don't understand the reason why he needs to appeal to me at all. If he is good and I am bad, why do I need to work with him at all? Thats the reason I chose not to even respond to DT's accusations at me earlier either. There is nothing to convince him of, he knows what side I am on, just as I know what side he is on.

I'll try to work with you and Kwhit in answering any questions you have, but the decision is left up to you two to win or lose unfortunatly.

Yeah. That's the interesting thing about this game right now. Alan, DT, and ntn know all the roles of all the players at this point. Hoops and I are the only players still in the dark.

Very interesting.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'll try to work with you and Kwhit in answering any questions you have, but the decision is left up to you two to win or lose unfortunatly.

Yep, I get that. And I would expect that we'll have the remaining villager follow us on our vote in order to ensure we are not hijacked on voting by a wolf.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

KWhit, does the last post indicate that Alan is still the most trusted out of the three for you?

I suppose so. But barely.

I don't like the fact that he missed the vote on day 1, but it seems like he would know that would be viewed as suspicious so a wolf likely wouldn't have done it.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Yep, I get that. And I would expect that we'll have the remaining villager follow us on our vote in order to ensure we are not hijacked on voting by a wolf.

which is exactly the reason why I haven't voted yet.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I suppose so. But barely.

I don't like the fact that he missed the vote on day 1, but it seems like he would know that would be viewed as suspicious so a wolf likely wouldn't have done it.

Agreed. There was no real value-add on failing to cast a Day 1 vote. Doing so early, with hopes that it would help later in the game, would be a couple levels deeper thinking than I think any of us tend to do in Werewolf, no matter how smart we like to act about it sometimes. It is enough to move him to the "least likely to vote" list for today and probably for the duration. The kicker there is that I'm not 100% sold on DT/NTN as our dynamic duo. Which of these people would have ordered the Molly Night 1 kill and why?

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Agreed. There was no real value-add on failing to cast a Day 1 vote. Doing so early, with hopes that it would help later in the game, would be a couple levels deeper thinking than I think any of us tend to do in Werewolf, no matter how smart we like to act about it sometimes. It is enough to move him to the "least likely to vote" list for today and probably for the duration. The kicker there is that I'm not 100% sold on DT/NTN as our dynamic duo. Which of these people would have ordered the Molly Night 1 kill and why?

As to why, my best guess is it had to do with the whole villegar mess. At the time, her reaction to vote AlanT suggested that MM did not have a PM that said villegar in it (not true, but we didn't know that at the time). Therefore, MM could only be the seer, hunter, or sorcerer, since they knew she wasn't a wolf. That had a great chance to kill the seer so they took it.

[KWhit]

Something else I checked on:

NTN has not said a word all game (one way or the other) about DT until today.

DT has not said a word all game (one way or the other) about NTN until today.

And today they are voting for each other.

I don't know if it means anything or not, but it's possible that they have been trying to avoid posting about each other. Not a big deal, but perhaps an interesting sign that they could be in league together.

It just seems strange that it can be this late in the game and they haven't made a single post that mentions the other.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Something else I checked on:

NTN has not said a word all game (one way or the other) about DT until today.

DT has not said a word all game (one way or the other) about NTN until today.

And today they are voting for each other.

I don't know if it means anything or not, but it's possible that they have been trying to avoid posting about each other. Not a big deal, but perhaps an interesting sign that they could be in league together.

It just seems strange that it can be this late in the game and they haven't made a single post that mentions the other.

Just so you don't make the right assumption for the wrong reason...

DT voted for me earlier, not ntn. I will present however (moreso for Hoops since he played that game), in that game when I was a wolf, I pushed the vote early on, trying to start up momentum in that game, however in order to try to "trick" hoops I voted for my wolf teammate, which then had him vote the other (innocent) villager and the wolves won the game.

Earlier I mentioned that I was going to play today different, that was more for Hoops' benefit since he remembered the other scenerio. Like mentioned earlier, I don't care which of the two you all vote for, there is no reason for me to push the vote either way. Voting for either of them is perfectly fine with me and I will join your vote on whichever you choose to lock it in and help you out. (No matter which you choose). This is what I meant, Ntn is playing today like I played in Animal farm.