If Trump Loses In November, What Do You Think Happens Next

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Yes it is. I am willing to put money right now on the fact that both Governor Kemp and Brad Raffensperger are primaried by Trump approved candidates in two years, and they will lose. There is no Republican party, only the Trump party.

I mean that's how they want it to worek and some people DO think that way I'm not arguing there. But it's all a perception. If people just say "no fuck you" the power is gone and they move on to the next thing or person

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by molson

The beatification of Trump was just the cherry on the top of this movement that is still hard to wrap my head around. That THIS is the guy, the savior, the Christian icon, maybe even a prophet. The far right went about it wrong for so long, trying to push actual conservative religious leaders. What they needed was a sexual deviant, a multi time-divorced, illegal-immigrant employing, elite liberal hobnobber, pro-choice, celebrity, gay-tolerant Russia-lover and adulterer. He is the one who they have followed. He is the one the Lord has sent. I mean, I guess people were skeptical of Jesus too. But this is ridiculous.

Right. It wasn't even someone like Huckabee, who is odious, but seems to be a person of faith in his personal life and choices (to an extent). It was someone who was clearly someone who hadn't stepped foot in a church aside from a wedding or funeral in decades until he started campaigning. Someone who was known for being a partier, philanderer, cheat.

[sterlingice]

But, hey, Joe's a pro-choice Catholic so he's worse than Trump

SI

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I mean that's how they want it to worek and some people DO think that way I'm not arguing there. But it's all a perception. If people just say "no fuck you" the power is gone and they move on to the next thing or person

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

When someone tells you who they are...

^

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by molson

That THIS is the guy, the savior, the Christian icon, maybe even a prophet. The far right went about it wrong for so long, trying to push actual conservative religious leaders. What they needed was a sexual deviant, a multi time-divorced, illegal-immigrant employing, elite liberal hobnobber, pro-choice, celebrity, gay-tolerant Russia-lover and adulterer. He is the one who they have followed. He is the one the Lord has sent.

I just don't understand how intelligent people go into this kind of simplistic single-factor tunnel. Who calls Trump a 'Christian icon'? Seriously just look at what the evangelical leaders who support him have said. I'm still looking for one who didn't say 'Trump's an ass but it's about the policy but not the person' in some form or another.

This idea that they supported Trump because they like the sexual deviancy, adultery, celebrity etc - what basis is there for it?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I just don't understand how intelligent people go into this kind of simplistic single-factor tunnel. Who calls Trump a 'Christian icon'? Seriously just look at what the evangelical leaders who support him have said. I'm still looking for one who didn't say 'Trump's an ass but it's about the policy but not the person' in some form or another.

This idea that they supported Trump because they like the sexual deviancy, adultery, celebrity etc - what basis is there for it?

The Trump Prophecy - Wikipedia

A third of Americans believe that God chose Trump.

About a third of Americans say Trump’s election was God’s will | Pew Research Center

I could cite a billion links like these but here's a couple that took me 5 seconds:

Fulfillment of prophecy? Yes, some evangelicals really do believe Trump is the "chosen one" | Salon.com

Paula White Talks God Raising Up Trump, Christian Remnant on Jim Bakker Show - The Christian Post

Pat Robertson: Trump will win, followed by war on Israel and the end of times - Israel News - Haaretz.com

Minister Prophesies Trump Comeback, Says 'God Hates' Biden Support of Equality Act, Abortion Rights

‘Prophecy voters’ forming core of Trump’s evangelical base | ReligionWatch | An Online Publication of Baylor Institute for Studies of Religion

He is a literal Christian icon and prophet to these people, sent by god to lead us

Edit: They're not voting for him because he's a liberal sexual pro-choice deviant (now successfully playing a fictional character of a conservative presidential figure), they're voting for him despite those things because they believe he is a prophet sent from God to restore the Christian white man's position in America before the end times. When you're chosen by god to lead, it doesn't matter as much if you have a decades-long public stance of being pro-choice and pro-gay marriage, etc.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by molson

The Trump Prophecy - Wikipedia

A third of Americans believe that God chose Trump.

About a third of Americans say Trump’s election was God’s will | Pew Research Center

I could cite a billion links like these but here's a couple that took me 5 seconds:

Fulfillment of prophecy? Yes, some evangelicals really do believe Trump is the "chosen one" | Salon.com

Paula White Talks God Raising Up Trump, Christian Remnant on Jim Bakker Show - The Christian Post

Pat Robertson: Trump will win, followed by war on Israel and the end of times - Israel News - Haaretz.com

Minister Prophesies Trump Comeback, Says 'God Hates' Biden Support of Equality Act, Abortion Rights

‘Prophecy voters’ forming core of Trump’s evangelical base | ReligionWatch | An Online Publication of Baylor Institute for Studies of Religion

He is a literal Christian icon and prophet to these people, sent by god to lead us.

Right. This isn't some sort of secret. Plenty of people, including BIG time pastors, believe Trump was chosen by God in a way that, say, Obama was not.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Not to mention there isn't any thing he can really sue on. The transition people don't have to do anything until the EC votes.

One thing that has come into focus for the first time for many folks is that much of the smoothness of our early transition process is tradition-based, and as such is nearly 100% dependent upon having good-faith actors in place. We had none of these nonsense from the Carter and Bush administrations when they lost after one term, nor did we from Clinton/GWB/Obama when the other Party won after their second terms.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by molson

He is a literal Christian icon and prophet to these people, sent by god to lead us through the end times.

The people you are talking about say crazy things like that in all situations though. There's an aspect of what is hilariously termed Christianity which finds demons under every rock, unquestionable divine intervention in whether or not they get a flat tire, etc. I mean here's some saying similar things about Bush:

God intervened to re-elect President Bush; George W. Bush and evangelicals; divine intervention in elections - Beliefnet

Robertson Says God Told Him Bush Will Win Reelection In A 'Blowout' | Americans United for Separation of Church and State

That kind of thing isn't new or Trump-specific. Meanwhile Dobson, Rosenberg, MacArthur, Grudem, on and on all cite the justification I described.

Originally Posted by molson

They're not voting for him because he's a liberal sexual pro-choice deviant (now successfully playing a fictional character of a conservative presidential figure), they're voting for him despite those things because they believe he is a prophet sent from God to restore the Christian white man's position in America before the end times.

Yes on the first part, no on the second except for the extremists - which it pays no value to heed. I mean, there was a local pastor who tried to convince me and my father that MLK was a communist many years ago, and these people belong in the same category. That doesn't mean he was representative of Christianity or conservative evangelicalism as a whole (he wasn't, and isn't) or that there was some big political movement that thought as he did that anything more liberal than literal Puritanism enforced from Washington was a sign of the end times.

You can find extreme views anywhere, but when you ask people why they voted for Trump it's consistently been a combination of policy and his combative, take-no-prisoners leadership style that I've seen over and over again.

[molson]

I personally think it goes a lot deeper with Trump, but that's not something I could prove to anyone who disagrees.

But there's certainly something different about using this rhetoric to describe a conservative Christian republican like Bush v. using it to elevate Trump. I kind of get, at some level, prophecies about Christian religious and political leaders. Trump had no conservative or religious credentials, and he outwardly lived a life contrary to those things. He was pro-choice for decades before he decided to become a demagogue and was chosen to be the next prophet.

[Brian Swartz]

All that tells me is they hold just as fast to the idea of policy over the person as the rest of the country does.

[CrimsonFox]

[CrimsonFox]

[Ben E Lou]

At this point, my money is on Option 3 + resignation between 12/14 and 1/20.

He fights the result but gives up shortly before the inauguration (let's define "shortly" as "some time after the EC meets on 12/14")

[Ksyrup]

I don't think so. He's going to make things as difficult for Biden as he can, starting as many fires and putting them behind the 8 ball wherever possible. In addition to all of his other faults, he's definitely that kind of petty bastard, even if the country burns (or gets infected) just to satisfy his ego and need for revenge.

[sterlingice]

I'm curious how long his patience runs out. He keeps losing so badly in court and I have to think that costs money. If his grift of "give to my legal fund so I can pay off my personal debts" is actually a money loser, that may push him to stop sooner. Then again, I think he's so insulated from the day to day ops and has so many yes men and grifters around him that they'll just tell him he's making money even if he's losing it.

Then again, it's really likely that he's just doing this out of pure old spite as that seems to be his dominant emotion. And, if that's the case, he'll hold on until someone he can't fire forces him to stop (or informs him that he needs to get to a non-extradition country quickly as it's almost January 20th)
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/19/polit...ion/index.html



SI

[Ksyrup]

Hopefully, this isn't what happens next.

What would you say if you saw it in another country? https://t.co/U1DLfjin3G The madness Trump has started to unleash. pic.twitter.com/AmPpNqkn0K

— Brendan Nyhan (@BrendanNyhan) November 20, 2020

[Qwikshot]

Love to see these militiamen go up against a drone.

[sterlingice]

I remember in the mid-late 90s, there was a big "militia" (no, getting together with your white supremacist buddies to shoot stuff and talk about overthrowing the government does not make you a militia) scare in this country, too. Hopefully this mostly dies out like that one

SI

[Ghost Econ]

Calling your town "Sundown" is maybe a bit too on the nose.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Love to see these militiamen go up against a drone.

Part of me does want to see these guys try something just to get smacked down and removed from the bloodstream. I'm not sure how they will be otherwise. But, that's also unfortunately not a great solution.

[molson]

Trump and Rudi would both look better with regular, balding, grey, old-man hair. I don't understand the shame in your hair when you're pushing 80.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I don't think so. He's going to make things as difficult for Biden as he can, starting as many fires and putting them behind the 8 ball wherever possible. In addition to all of his other faults, he's definitely that kind of petty bastard, even if the country burns (or gets infected) just to satisfy his ego and need for revenge.

I think they are just about giving up any legal fight. They are instead going to push hard for state legislatures to send their own electors. That is where the court battle is going to come, and they think the Supreme Court will go along with it. Michigan is the first go. If Trump fails to convince them to do it, then he might actually be done.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Love to see these militiamen go up against a drone.

I don't wish death on anybody.....but, yeah. What is actually more likely is these guys getting arrested just like their Michigan brethren. There is going to be more of these groups coming up with crazy schemes that will get halted by arrests. They are in general too stupid not to get caught in the planning. This going to be like the Klan in the 60's-70's when it was originally rolled up. Ebery other person in every meeting will turn informant.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I think they are just about giving up any legal fight. They are instead going to push hard for state legislatures to send their own electors. That is where the court battle is going to come, and they think the Supreme Court will go along with it. Michigan is the first go. If Trump fails to convince them to do it, then he might actually be done.

Michigan won't work. Neither will most states. Michigan, Pennsylvania and others actually have systems in place to prevent what Trump is attempting.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/20/o...-election.html

The fastest way for this to end would be Collins going to McConnell and telling him to end it or she's switching parties.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The fastest way for this to end would be Collins going to McConnell and telling him to end it or she's switching parties.

I needed a good laugh today...

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Michigan won't work. Neither will most states. Michigan, Pennsylvania and others actually have systems in place to prevent what Trump is attempting.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/20/o...-election.html

The fastest way for this to end would be Collins going to McConnell and telling him to end it or she's switching parties.

Yeah, I don't really get the end game here unless this is totally for the theater of making cultists for life and stringing this out as long as possible. He wouldn't push this hard if it wasn't true!

[Ksyrup]

Welp. Thanks for the frequent flyer miles?

WASHINGTON (AP) — After Trump meeting, Michigan GOP lawmakers say they're not aware of any info that would change Biden's victory in state.

— Jonathan Lemire (@JonLemire) November 20, 2020

[Ksyrup]

So sorry, another L!

JUST IN After daylong trial in final election challenge, Maricopa County judge tells both sides she'll toss out lawsuit 'with prejudice.' Meantime, Maricopa County Board will certify results within the hour. It is over. #12News https://t.co/dIspu4TLRd

— Brahm Resnik (@brahmresnik) November 21, 2020

[Lathum]

what does with prejudiced mean exactly?

[Ksyrup]

They can't file the complaint again. Without prejudice means they can refile the complaint to "fix" whatever the court found was wrong with it.

[Ksyrup]

I mean, look at this shit. This is embarrassing. The lawyers are just terrible, it's so obvious this is just done to stall and for political theater so Trump can continue to tweet and Rudy can leak hair dye in front of cameras. Thankfully so far the judges - even the ones appointed by Trump - have done their damn jobs.

Yesterday @kayleighmcenany and @RudyGiuliani were peddling a silly story.

Here’s a supercut of an Arizona judge examining the affidavit collection process used by the Trump campaign.

It yielded “lies and spam." he decided - & disallowed the affidavits...pic.twitter.com/lY9PW0CJmo

— Rex Chapman���� (@RexChapman) November 21, 2020

[Lathum]

So at what point can the lawyers representing them be held accountable for bringing these frivolous lawsuits? Is there no repercussions for either the attorneys or the Trump campaign?

[Ksyrup]

Federal rule 11(b), typically mimicked by similar state rules, is the mechanism by which attorneys can be held responsible for filing frivolous lawsuits. It's rarely used to begin with, so I don't think there's a chance in hell of it being used here (even though it certainly merits close review).

These are the standards:

By presenting to the court a pleading, written motion, or other paper—whether by signing, filing, submitting, or later advocating it—an attorney or unrepresented party certifies that to the best of the person's knowledge, information, and belief, formed after an inquiry reasonable under the circumstances:

(1) it is not being presented for any improper purpose, such as to harass, cause unnecessary delay, or needlessly increase the cost of litigation;

(2) the claims, defenses, and other legal contentions are warranted by existing law or by a nonfrivolous argument for extending, modifying, or reversing existing law or for establishing new law;

(3) the factual contentions have evidentiary support or, if specifically so identified, will likely have evidentiary support after a reasonable opportunity for further investigation or discovery; and

(4) the denials of factual contentions are warranted on the evidence or, if specifically so identified, are reasonably based on belief or a lack of information.

[Ksyrup]

Here's another one. I assume these otherwise pretty well-regarded attorneys got paid handsomely to trash their reputations.

This, from the Georgia federal district court order denying the request for a TRO in Lin Wood's election lawsuit, is not something any lawyer wants to see in a court order. @RMFifthCircuit @Popehat @rickhasen pic.twitter.com/PaqilWCsg5

— Sean Hecht (@seanhecht) November 21, 2020

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

They can't file the complaint again. Without prejudice means they can refile the complaint to "fix" whatever the court found was wrong with it.

Everything Trump files is....*puts on sun glasses*...with prejudice. WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

[GrantDawg]

Lathum, they did in at least one case in Arizona allow the SOS office to recoup legal fees. That is a pretty good slap.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[JPhillips]

On the one hand, the GOP further radicalizing is bad, but on the other hand, it's quite satisfying watching the leopards eat Brian Kemp's face.

[Vegas Vic]

Although this was written in 1787, this excerpt from "An Old Whig's" essay from The New-York Journal strikes home today.

"Let us suppose this man to be a favorite with his army, and that they are unwilling to part with their beloved commander in chief ... and we have only to suppose one thing more, that this man is without the virtue, the moderation and love of liberty which possessed the mind of our late general [Washington] - and this country will be involved at once in war and tyranny.

... We may also suppose, without trespassing upon the bounds of probability, that this man may not have the means of supporting, in private life, the dignity of his former station; that like Caesar, he may be at once ambitious and poor, and deeply involved in debt. Such a man would die a thousand deaths rather than sink from the heights of splendor and power, into obscurity and wretchedness."

[GrantDawg]

This is fine:

Nothing says “man of the people” like @MI_Republicans leadership downing a $495 bottle of 2000 Dom Perignon P2 at the Trump hotel after a White House meeting to try and disenfranchise Michiganders. https://t.co/hYwSea9mER pic.twitter.com/VPIZGjIUil

— Ray Wert (@raywert) November 21, 2020

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Lathum, they did in at least one case in Arizona allow the SOS office to recoup legal fees. That is a pretty good slap.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

But that's directed at the plaintiff, not the attorneys.

I saw some NJ Rep filed Bar complaints against Rudy and a dozen other Trump lawyers in 20+ states. I bet they don't go anywhere.

[GrantDawg]

��BREAKING: Republican Congressman Mike Kelly has filed a new frivolous lawsuit in Pennsylvania seeking to block the state from certifying the election results and having the state legislature choose electors.

This is absolutely shameful.https://t.co/KgtT3qohX9

— Marc E. Elias (@marceelias) November 21, 2020

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

��BREAKING: Republican Congressman Mike Kelly has filed a new frivolous lawsuit in Pennsylvania seeking to block the state from certifying the election results and having the state legislature choose electors.

This is absolutely shameful.https://t.co/KgtT3qohX9

— Marc E. Elias (@marceelias) November 21, 2020

All of them should be tried for sedition

[GrantDawg]

The interesting thing on this one is that this is just a straight claim the the Pennsylvania law from last year that allowed no excuse mail-in ballots is unconstitutional by the Pennsylvania constitution. They are trying to throw out the whole election in affect.

[GrantDawg]

Remember the guys partying in the Trump hotel who said the President didn't ask them to stop the certification in Michigan? Yeah:

Republican leaders ask Michigan election board to delay certification of results, in latest GOP effort to cast doubt on the vote, via @RubleKB and @fahrenthold https://t.co/tUJ3eKluES

— Matea Gold (@mateagold) November 21, 2020

[Brian Swartz]

Ironically, they seem to be bent on doing more than I expect any Democrat to do to ensure I vote Democrat going forward. So long as they support this nonsense, it's going to be an easy choice.

[Butter]

The PA claim seems like it's too late, right? You can't play a whole game under a set of rules, lose, then complain the rules were unfair. You have to litigate the rules ahead of time

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Butter

The PA claim seems like it's too late, right? You can't play a whole game under a set of rules, lose, then complain the rules were unfair. You have to litigate the rules ahead of time

I would think so, but I am far from a lawyer. I will say reading the complaint, it was much better the Trump teams complaints. Plus it is a clear argument on law, noit throwing rumors at the wall.

[GrantDawg]

One thing I have thought: couldn't this full on attack on the election system actually dissuade Trumpers from voting making it seem futile?

One of the president's attorneys, who is popular among his diehard base, is threatening to withhold his vote in the Georgia runoff and encouraging others to do the same. https://t.co/5Bhyqp9UAv

— Yashar Ali �� (@yashar) November 21, 2020

[Ksyrup]

Another day, another L.

BREAKING: Federal judge dismisses Trump campaign's last lawsuit seeking to delay certification of Pennsylvania's election results. pic.twitter.com/oYi0wLHQUe

— Jeremy Roebuck (@jeremyrroebuck) November 21, 2020