OT: Star Wars Episode III

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Wait... that's an example of GOOD dialogue?

That whole exchange is classic. Good dialogue. Great acting. Your mind is too clouded by the Dark Side. You've gone mad.

[Yossarian]

The original three's dialogue is cringeworthy. You're viewing them with rose tinted glasses.

The charisma between the cast is miles better (in most cases) than the new ones, the ambience and atmosphere is more upbeat and gung ho which may be a good thing but the dialogue is largely as pish as the new ones.

I mean seriously!

Plus Yoda is a total dufus in the swamp.

Re-watching the original trilogy after YEARS I was taken aback and thinking "wtf?" when I saw yoda hitting Luke's radio.

Cheesy shit man. I enjoyed the movies but this semi-religous reverence they are held in is bizzarre. Yoda can do no wrong!!!! dudes!. yoda == jar jar (without the annoying speech)

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Yossarian

yoda == jar jar (without the annoying speech)

The caveat ALONE makes Yoda about a million times better...

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Yossarian

The original three's dialogue is cringeworthy. You're viewing them with rose tinted glasses.

The charisma between the cast is miles better (in most cases) than the new ones, the ambience and atmosphere is more upbeat and gung ho which may be a good thing but the dialogue is largely as pish as the new ones.

I mean seriously!

Plus Yoda is a total dufus in the swamp.

Re-watching the original trilogy after YEARS I was taken aback and thinking "wtf?" when I saw yoda hitting Luke's radio.

Cheesy shit man. I enjoyed the movies but this semi-religous reverence they are held in is bizzarre. Yoda can do no wrong!!!! dudes!. yoda == jar jar (without the annoying speech)

Yeah, i always fast forward through the Yoda scenes in ESB.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Yossarian

yoda == jar jar (without the annoying speech)

Not that your post was really going anywhere, but you totally lost it with this last bit here. Shameful, dude. Shame. ful. Not even Darth Isquiddious himself would make such a bold, ridiculous claim.

ps Just say no, dude.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I think McGregor did quite a nice job. I mean he was basically given a big pile of shit to work with dialogue was and he basically made it a much smaller pile. Thinking back on the prequels, which isn't easy, I think I was most impressed with Liam Neeson actually. I kind of dug Qui Gon.

I felt Qui Gon was probably the most believable and well-acted character in the new trilogy. There are some good moments in Episode 1. I cannot say the same for Episode II.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

But seeing Alderaan after all those years brought tears to peoples eyes. Oh and Isaw older men crying during the intro scene. Is Star Wars that mych influence in people's lives. I was expecting somepne to bring an urn of their dad/ significant other to the showing.

[Yossarian]

. Not even Darth Isquiddious himself would make such a bold, ridiculous claim.

I'll grant you that Yoda does have some badass moments and Jar Jar is just annoying throughout - but the Yoda eating sausages and hitting radio moments are up there with the worst moments in any of the films. :-)

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Yossarian

I'll grant you that Yoda does have some badass moments and Jar Jar is just annoying throughout - but the Yoda eating sausages and hitting radio moments are up there with the worst moments in any of the films. :-)

Come now. Yoda is just playin' the fool to see if Luke has the stuff. Jar Jar simply is a fool. It's all good times down on Degobah. I like when he's rummaging around Luke's stuff, eating his food and all that. Then he just turns on his bad-assness when the gig is up. That freakin' puppet showed more depth of character than all those CGI goofballs combined!

[Bearcat729]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Come now. Yoda is just playin' the fool to see if Luke has the stuff. Jar Jar simply is a fool. It's all good times down on Degobah. I like when he's rummaging around Luke's stuff, eating his food and all that. Then he just turns on his bad-assness when the gig is up. That freakin' puppet showed more depth of character than all those CGI goofballs combined!

I think after 19 years alone in a swamp your allowed to be a little eccentric.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

That whole exchange is classic. Good dialogue. Great acting. Your mind is too clouded by the Dark Side. You've gone mad.

I guess if I've needed a reason to discount anything you say in the future, this would be it.

This would be one of those examples of unexplained reverence for the original films... kind of like the Jedi in the prequals, these people are oblivious to reality

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I guess if I've needed a reason to discount anything you say in the future, this would be it.

This would be one of those examples of unexplained reverence for the original films... kind of like the Jedi in the prequals, these people are oblivious to reality

I disagree. That scene is real comedy.

A smuggler becoming a bumbling idiot under pressure while trying to impersonate an imperial guard is funny. Jar-Jar stepping in shit and saying "Icky-Icky Poo" is not.

The original trilogy don't necessarilly deserve writing awards (although I think ESB is as perfect a movie as I've ever seen), but the original trilogy are clearly worlds better than the newer films. there is simply no heart in the new movies at all.

[cthomer5000]

Oh, and despite being a huge fan of the original tirlogy (although I think Jedi is a pretty so-so film on it's own), i've always thought Yoda was overrated.

Also, it's hard to see him as anything but senile when watching Empire Strikes Back these days.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I disagree. That scene is real comedy.

A smuggler becoming a bumbling idiot under pressure while trying to impersonate an imperial guard is funny. Jar-Jar stepping in shit and saying "Icky-Icky Poo" is not.

Um... Han Solo was in the Imperial Academy. He should know how to impersonate an imperial guard. And even if he wasn't, that level of bumbling makes one wonder how he's been able to be a good smuggler at all.

The original trilogy don't necessarilly deserve writing awards (although I think ESB is as perfect a movie as I've ever seen), but the original trilogy are clearly worlds better than the newer films. there is simply no heart in the new movies at all.

I disagree. I think the original trilogy as NOT worlds better than "Revenge of the Sith". In fact, I'd say RotS is right up there with them. None of them should win any filmmaking awards though (unless if you consider special effects a filmmaking award).

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Um... Han Solo was in the Imperial Academy. He should know how to impersonate an imperial guard. And even if he wasn't, that level of bumbling makes one wonder how he's been able to be a good smuggler at all.

Honestly, you're micro-analyizing that more than the worst of us nerds.

1. We have no idea if Solo is a good smuggler. We've only heard his boasts and have verification (via Greedo) that he's fucked up a prior smuggling job and owes Jabba some serious dough.

2. I don't believe the fact that he was in the Academy is referenced at all in that movie. Therefore, IMHO, it's inadmissable evidence. Lucas was making this shit up as he went along, and I'm sure he only made that up after the fact.


ROTS can maybe fight ROJ for 3rd best movie, but A New Hope and ESB are certainly quite a bit better than any of the new films.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

1. We have no idea if Solo is a good smuggler. We've only heard his boasts and have verification (via Greedo) that he's fucked up a prior smuggling job and owes Jabba some serious dough.

He's survived for that long, meaning that he was a good smuggler. He dropped his smuggled goods last time because an Imperial crusier wanted to board him.

Secondly, it's utterly silly and I don't think anyone would screw up that badly. "How are you", I mean really, WTF?

ROTS can maybe fight ROJ for 3rd best movie, but A New Hope and ESB are certainly quite a bit better than any of the new films.

I put RotS over ANH. It's my 2nd best movie of the series. I agree with the NY Times reviewer, it's better than the 1st one. ANH is a far cry from ESB.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

He's survived for that long, meaning that he was a good smuggler. He dropped his smuggled goods last time because an Imperial crusier wanted to board him.

Secondly, it's utterly silly and I don't think anyone would screw up that badly. "How are you", I mean really, WTF?


I put RotS over ANH. It's my 2nd best movie of the series. I agree with the NY Times reviewer, it's better than the 1st one. ANH is a far cry from ESB.

I thought RotS was pretty good. A New Hope was way way better, though. Also that Han Solo line was hilarious. You really can't try to use Harrison Ford as an example that the acting or dialogue in the original trilogy was bad as he was practically the only one who managed to be witty part of the time. It wasn't the best dialogue ever written, to be sure, but some of the shit in sith was among the worst I've ever seen. Usually when people say something made them cringe they don't mean it literally, but RotS provided a couple of exceptions to that rule.

[ISiddiqui]

I really don't think ANH was "way way way better" or even close to being better. I put my DVD in a few hours after I saw RotS. I enjoyed RotS more.

Sure, the line is funny, but because it's kinda dumb.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I really don't think ANH was "way way way better" or even close to being better. I put my DVD in a few hours after I saw RotS. I enjoyed RotS more.

Sure, the line is funny, but because it's kinda dumb.

If I recall you also thought that "Dumb & Dumber" was infinitely funnier than "Office Space" in that poll a few months back. This would explain why wouldn't find that small, human moment of comedy to be dumb, while I am sure you find a CGI Gungan stepping in CGI poop or CGI droids slipping and stumbling around on CGI oil simply the height of hi-larity.

I must admit, Darth Isquiddious I under estimated the power of the Dark Side. It is strong in you.

[st.cronin]

Anybody who thinks Revenge of the Sith compares favorably to even Return of the Jedi clearly has no taste. Probably also the sort of person who would drink Miller Lite, or enjoy eating at the Olive Garden.

[-Mojo Jojo-]

C'mon guys, that's hittin low

[Joe]

none of the movies are very good, and the new ones are worse because it was just lucas trying to cash in on the franchise. I don't know what people were expecting.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

If I recall you also thought that "Dumb & Dumber" was infinitely funnier than "Office Space" in that poll a few months back. This would explain why wouldn't find that small, human moment of comedy to be dumb, while I am sure you find a CGI Gungan stepping in CGI poop or CGI droids slipping and stumbling around on CGI oil simply the height of hi-larity.

Dumb and Dumber :b:. Anyone who doesn't consider that movie to be comedic gold has no sense of humor at all. Office Space is one of the most overrated movies of all time.

"Human moments of comedy" have to be believable in the middle of a drama movie. Being utterly stupid doesn't work for a character who isn't portrayed as such. Now, a character like Delmar in "O'Brother Where Are Thou" (a great comedic movie) could make such a dumb statement and it works because of his lack of education. For Han Solo, it's idiotic.

[Hammer755]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Also, it's hard to see him as anything but senile when watching Empire Strikes Back these days.

When 900 years old you are, think so good you will not.

I don't see what the problem was with Yoda's actions when he first met Luke. He obviously was behaving that way on purpose, and to me it was quite striking to see him turn from 'silly Yoda' into 'stern Yoda' and morph back into his real character.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Anybody who thinks Revenge of the Sith compares favorably to even Return of the Jedi clearly has no taste. Probably also the sort of person who would drink Miller Lite, or enjoy eating at the Olive Garden.

Ah, I'm glad to see we disagree. I may not drink Miller Light (pisswater) or eat at the Olive Garden (blech!), but I just got home after seeing Sith. I liked it more than Jedi. It's a great popcorn movie.

The frickin' teddy bears...er, excuse me, Ewoks...are just horrible. The battle between Vader and Luke is great, as is the Emperor. But many other scenes are flat or unexciting. At first blush, I like Sith better - the Jedi death scenes were awesome, as were the final battles (Yoda/Emperor, Obi Wan/Vader). Grevious was a bit of a puss, but I found the acting to be more than tolerable.

1. ESB (Empire, best of the bunch)
2. ANH (The original is still awesome)
3. RotS (Sith is entertaining but has a poorly acted love story)
4. RotJ (Jedi is as well, but Ewoks are worse than a poorly acted love story)
5. AotC (Clones, really not a horrid movie, just some horrid lines)
6. TPM (God-awful except for Darth Maul)

[MrBigglesworth]

Why is Empire everyone's favorite? It was always my least favorite growing up (I like them all pretty much the same now), and it's the middle part of the trilogy so there isn't really a beginning and there isn't really an end.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

Why is Empire everyone's favorite? It was always my least favorite growing up (I like them all pretty much the same now), and it's the middle part of the trilogy so there isn't really a beginning and there isn't really an end.

Agreed. Admittedly I was young when I first saw it, but I thought it was too drawn out. It had its moments, but they could have cut 30 minutes out of it and I don't think I would have missed a thing.

[st.cronin]

Anybody who puts Revenge of the Sith anywhere close to the original trilogy is simply insane. The correct order is

1. Empire
2,3. Star Wars/Return of the Jedi (tie)





4, 5, 6. Episodes 1, 2, 3 (tie)

[Neuqua]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Anybody who puts Revenge of the Sith anywhere close to the original trilogy is simply insane. The correct order is

I say you are insane.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

Why is Empire everyone's favorite? It was always my least favorite growing up (I like them all pretty much the same now), and it's the middle part of the trilogy so there isn't really a beginning and there isn't really an end.

"Empire" had the better ending. I mean, Luke gets his hand cut off, finds out Vader's his father, Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. I mean, that's what life is, a series of down endings. All "Jedi" had was a bunch of Muppets.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

Why is Empire everyone's favorite? It was always my least favorite growing up (I like them all pretty much the same now), and it's the middle part of the trilogy so there isn't really a beginning and there isn't really an end.

It's the best movie, that's why.

[Darkiller]

I'm a die hard SW fan, have been since my childhood, and I tell you : Revenge of the Sith ranks right up there.
If it's not #1, it's #2 in my books.

There is no more "two trilogies" thing, RoTs is so well conceived that the saga is now complete and is one big six-chapter film. bar none.

[Sharpieman]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Anybody who puts Revenge of the Sith anywhere close to the original trilogy is simply insane. The correct order is

1. Empire
2,3. Star Wars/Return of the Jedi (tie)





4, 5, 6. Episodes 1, 2, 3 (tie)

You have it pretty close. Revenge of the Sith is better than the first 2 episodes, but not even close to any of the original ones.
1. Empire
2, A New Hope
3. Return of the Jedi
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
4. Revenge of the Sith
.
.
.
.
It really doesn't matter the first two sucked.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

You have it pretty close. Revenge of the Sith is better than the first 2 episodes, but not even close to any of the original ones.
1. Empire
2, A New Hope
3. Return of the Jedi
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
4. Revenge of the Sith
.
.
.
.
It really doesn't matter the first two sucked.

You are wise, young padawan.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

You are wise, young padawan.

That is the only correct way to rank these movies.

[Bearcat729]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

That is the only correct way to rank these movies.

On the other hand I would rank them

1. A New Hope
2. Empire
3. Jedi
4. Sith
5. Clones
6. Phantom Menace

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Bearcat729

On the other hand I would rank them

1. A New Hope
2. Empire
3. Jedi
4. Sith
5. Clones
6. Phantom Menace

Ok, I suppose I find that acceptable. 3-6 are locked in place. I can understand how people can make ANH or ESB #1. I give you an A-.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Darkiller

If it's not #1, it's #2 in my books.
There is no more "two trilogies" thing, RoTs is so well conceived that the saga is now complete and is one big six-chapter film. bar none.

While I may not have quite the history with the films you describe, the rest of your post is pretty much in line with my own feelings at this point.

And since it appears to be the thing to do at this point in the thread, my personal ranking would be:
1) ANH
2) Sith
3) Empire
4) Return
5) Clone
6) Menace

And just to add a little more heresy, I don't think I have as large a gap between 4 & 5 as most people either, close enough that I hesitated for a moment before filling in those slots. In the end though, courageous-Ewoks-unwisely- trying-a-tripwire maintained the position.

[Darkiller]

For what it's worth, I'm sure in a few years we'll "learn" to appreciate Ep I and Ep II a lot more...these films need to have a few year under their belt, like fine wine...

You'll see, in 10 years or so. We won't talk anymore about Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones being "special effects" only...I can almost guarantee that.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

But seeing Alderaan after all those years brought tears to peoples eyes. Oh and Isaw older men crying during the intro scene. Is Star Wars that mych influence in people's lives. I was expecting somepne to bring an urn of their dad/ significant other to the showing.

At what part is Alderaan shown? The end?

[Joe]

whats a padawan

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Darkiller

For what it's worth, I'm sure in a few years we'll "learn" to appreciate Ep I and Ep II a lot more...these films need to have a few year under their belt, like fine wine...

You'll see, in 10 years or so. We won't talk anymore about Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones being "special effects" only...I can almost guarantee that.

Yeah, we'll be talking about just how much they sucked.

[Leonidas]

Does anyone else see Yoda for the senile idiot he truly is? Wasn't this whole debacle really his own fault. Didn't he just totally play into Palpatine's hand the whole time? This is the guy who fell for the whole Dookoo headfake and went to the Wookie planet buying off on that little diversion. If he is so damn wise then why couldn't he see through any of this? Let's face it, Yoda screwed the pooch and led the whole academy into this debacle.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

Does anyone else see Yoda for the senile idiot he truly is? Wasn't this whole debacle really his own fault.

No. If Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan had listened to Yoda in the first place and never trained Anakin, none of this would have happened.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by sabotai

No. If Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan had listened to Yoda in the first place and never trained Anakin, none of this would have happened.

But then the movies would be about something else that's even dumber. And I thought that after Qui-Gon got gutted by Darth Maul, Yoda and the Jedi Council said that Anakin could be trained?

[Raiders Army]

Why would the Emperor save Anakin from death? Haven't they shown in all of the movies how ruthless the Empire is and how replaceable people are? That was totally out of character.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Why would the Emperor save Anakin from death? Haven't they shown in all of the movies how ruthless the Empire is and how replaceable people are? That was totally out of character.

But every time he tried that, he had a replacement - Maul wasn't a sacrifice, Dooku was sacrificed for Anakin, Darth was attempted to be sacrificed for Luke..

[Leonidas]

And if Obi Wan really had all that compassion for Anakin, why let him burn like a marshmellow? If he really was like a brother why not just lop off the head and put him out of his misery. But no, he had to cruelly and needlessly let him burn up, violating the Law of Armed Conflict regarding humanity and the requirement to not inflict unecessary suffering, and allow him to be found and reborn as Darth Vader.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by George W Bush

But then the movies would be about something else that's even dumber. And I thought that after Qui-Gon got gutted by Darth Maul, Yoda and the Jedi Council said that Anakin could be trained?

They didn't agree with Obi-Wan taking Anakin on as his Padawan, but Obi-Wan insisted.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

And if Obi Wan really had all that compassion for Anakin, why let him burn like a marshmellow? If he really was like a brother why not just lop off the head and put him out of his misery. But no, he had to cruelly and needlessly let him burn up, violating the Law of Armed Conflict regarding humanity and the requirement to not inflict unecessary suffering, and allow him to be found and reborn as Darth Vader.

He was already Vader at that point as he was Sideous' apprentice.