Oblivion: Elder Scrolls IV - PC Roleplaying Game

[Terps]

Originally Posted by Bearcat729

Supposedly there is a guy outside the imperial city that sells lockpicks, but I've never seen him

There's a guy on the waterfront I always steal them from, he almost always has 12 on him. I think he's part of the Thieves Guild.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Though I can imagine that mercantile and speechcraft wouldn't be much help at all in combat .

Directly, no, but indirectly, mercantile should make you more profitable, which allows you to get better gear, which makes you a better fighter. Speechcraft...well, yeah. Not sure how that would help combat outside of opening up quests and information you may not get otherwise.

I'm interested to see how I feel about the game as I get to higher levels. There is quite a bit of bitching about the scaled combat and rewards in the game. As you go up in level, so do the rewards you get for combat and the levels of your opponents. For example, apparently rare armor becomes commonplace on bandits and such as you get over level 20.

Much of what they are saying I agree with in principle, but the game is a blast to play, so I'm not sure what I think. I am going to keep an eye out for mods on this topic though.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Godzilla Blitz

Directly, no, but indirectly, mercantile should make you more profitable, which allows you to get better gear, which makes you a better fighter. Speechcraft...well, yeah. Not sure how that would help combat outside of opening up quests and information you may not get otherwise.

I'm interested to see how I feel about the game as I get to higher levels. There is quite a bit of bitching about the scaled combat and rewards in the game. As you go up in level, so do the rewards you get for combat and the levels of your opponents. For example, apparently rare armor becomes commonplace on bandits and such as you get over level 20.

Much of what they are saying I agree with in principle, but the game is a blast to play, so I'm not sure what I think. I am going to keep an eye out for mods on this topic though.

I've heard those complaints and I just don't really get them.

The beauty of the game is the free form way you can play it. You can go with the main story line, go on quests, just explore. . .

If you make everything static (ie: this temple is filled with high powered goblins, this one with easy goblins), then you make the game less free form and you force the player to play it the way you want him to.

I think it would destroy many of the things that makes the game great.

Just my opinion.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I've heard those complaints and I just don't really get them.

The beauty of the game is the free form way you can play it. You can go with the main story line, go on quests, just explore. . .

If you make everything static (ie: this temple is filled with high powered goblins, this one with easy goblins), then you make the game less free form and you force the player to play it the way you want him to.

I think it would destroy many of the things that makes the game great.

Just my opinion.

Troy,

I think you've hit on one of the reasons that I like the game so much: the go -anywhere-do-anything element of the game. However, I think there is a sacrifice involved with a game of this nature, and it might only be apparent after you get upwards in levels. In short, I wonder if there is a way to have the best of both worlds.

I was reading a thread on the subject on the official forums and I thought this post sums it up nicely:

I have given this a lot of thought and decided that I should probably give voice to my opinion in case Bethesda is really keeping tabs on this issue.

In short, I am against the current implementation of scaling. I will try to give semi-concise reasons for this (I'm sure all of these have been stated before, so this is just for the record).

1) It forces the character to play in a specific way. You must focus on combat skills when progressing your character or you will become unable to progress through the main quest. This is not to the exclusion of all else mind you, but if your combat skills begin lacking you cannot go back to a "safer area" to pick them up (yes, you may encounter some lower level enemies here and there that you can still beat, but you will have no chance in Oblivion and roving bandits will have you for breakfast).

2) There is no fear or thrill associated with adventuring/exploring, which removes the desire to explore the world. A breath-takingly beautiful world like this deserves to be explored and savored. As it is, I realize that no matter where I go I will find the same level of creatures/NPCs that I will find anywhere else, so why bother? This lack of variety means that I will never be completely outclassed (unless I fall behind in my combat skills -- see point 1) nor have to return somewhere later (and I probably won't bother to go there in the first place since I already know what I'll find). Basically it loses the sense of being an open-ended RPG and becomes an action/adventure game.

3) Lack of rationality detracts from the immersion in the game. I understand wanting to let the player decide how to play the game, but the idea that a level 1 character can be arena champion or defeat a lair of vampires seems ludicrous to me. I know, it's not about levels, but look at the skills/stats you start out with -- they are still lower in comparison than what I would expect of a hardened arena champion. Not to mention the uber-hard bandits later (if you decide to play that long) and guards that just keep getting stronger. Just for kicks (and because I had accidentally struck him anyway) I decided to attack Jauffre, the grandmaster of the blades while I was a level 9 assasin. No sneak attacks, I just walked right up and hit him normally with my sword. He let me hit him a couple of times, warning me that I was in for it, and then attacked. I decimated him in no time (no poisons, no healing, no tactics)... That really pulled me out of the game. I'm a stealth based character with relatively low combat skills and I just obliterated the grandmaster of the blades???

4) Role-playing loses out to hack and slash combat. You can be the best alchemist in Tamriel but only be able to find novice equipment because of your level, or you can plot a clever heist and carry it out only to find that all you receive for your troubles is the same stuff you could have picked out of a random chest anywhere. It just seems like you're better off hacking yourself to better gear.

Possible solutions?
1) The min-max approach. This says that there should be minimum and maximum allowed levels for enemies. Bandits should go from level 3-15, vampires from 10-25, lich kings from 20-50 or something like that. It's a form of scaling intended to keep some semblance of rationality in the game. That way you don't wind up wiping out a vampire lair and getting killed by a vicious mud-crab attack.

2) Intoduce some static "spawns" or creature/NPC locations. Introducing min/max levels only serves to keep you from encountering some entity types too early (e.g. you would never see a vampire until level 10, much like you don't currently see mountain-lions before that level). If there was some static content - say 50% of the landmarks (or maybe all the landmarks that you don't see from the road or something) and a healthy amount in the wilderness once you get off the beaten path - there would be a reason to explore. I (and I think many others) want to find the lair of the lich king or the camp of the minotaur lords, be utterly terrified at the encounter and run screaming the other way only to come back later and have an epic battle to do them in.

3) Remove most item/loot scaling. Bandits should not have Daedric armor, the wealthiest person in town should not have a carrot and shears in their maximum security chests. Leave item scaling in the scaled locations (though random dungeons shouldn't have uber high level gear in my opinion), but have unique stuff in the unique locations. I want to be excited to find that rare piece of glass armor, not disappointed to see that everyone suddenly has it for some reason. Shopkeepers should also have item scaling removed or drastically reduced. Why not let me buy a master mortal and pestle if I can scrounge up the money for it even though I'm only level 3?

4) Add penalties for using items that the character has no business using at a given skill level (this helps prevent the abuse of removing item scaling). A master alchemist should be able to use a master mortar and pestle and get full advantage no matter what character level he/she is, where a novice should be able to use it but not get any real benefit from doing so. The same applies to weapons... If a character's blade skill is very high, they should be able to use a glass sword to full effect, but otherwise maybe they only hit for some percentage of it's damage (I kind of assume this system is already in place since armor becomes more protective and weapons do more damage as the appropriate skills increase -- so maybe this is moot).

5) Make quest "levels" with the same sort of min/max approach as used for enemies. When you accept the quest to wipe out the vampire lair and the dreaded Dark Brother Lothario have the title of the quest color-coded to indicate how difficult this might be for a character of your level (green - easy, yellow - doable, orange - hard, red - almost impossible).

[ISiddiqui]

5) Make quest "levels" with the same sort of min/max approach as used for enemies. When you accept the quest to wipe out the vampire lair and the dreaded Dark Brother Lothario have the title of the quest color-coded to indicate how difficult this might be for a character of your level (green - easy, yellow - doable, orange - hard, red - almost impossible).

Wouldn't that contradict his second point, that there is no 'fear or thrill' because you know what the level is?

[Godzilla Blitz]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Wouldn't that contradict his second point, that there is no 'fear or thrill' because you know what the level is?

Yes and no. I think what he's trying to get at is that unknown areas encountered in the wild should put a bit of fear into you, but some quests received could have hints as to difficulty.

[klayman]

Originally Posted by Bearcat729

Supposedly there is a guy outside the imperial city that sells lockpicks, but I've never seen him

Follow the wall west from the stables outside the city. He is there day or night. I actually came across him coming up from the sewers the first time I played.

[sabotai]

I started over now that I have a grasp on how the game works, and because 1) I didn't want alchemy as a major skill (I has just picked Assassin from the list of classes) and 2) I wanted a few schools of magic as well.

Here's the class I made up:

Class: Shadow
Specialization: Stealth
Attributes: Agility, Personality
Skills: Blade, Illusion, Light Armor, Marksman, Mysticism, Security, Sneak

For awhile, I'm just going to ignore the main quest. Pretend it hasn't happened yet and just explore the country doing a side quest at a time. First stop....Vilerin.

[Eaglesfan27]

I just obtained my first really good magical item in an Elven Ruin. A few minutes later I had my first crash Fortunately, I had saved it just before the crash. I love these various "side dungeons."

[BYU 14]

Officially add me as a fanboy, just finished the Tutorial and I am now exploring the market district. Any fears I had about the combat system were quickly allayed as I got the hang of it fairly quick, love to sneak and snipe with my Bow, close combat is a little weak right now, but I am getting better. The immersion factor is awesome and with all the NPCs speaking there is almost a MMORPG social factor to me. Getting ready to head off to deliver the Amulet of Kings, I am looking forward to experiencing all the trevails along the way there......Looks like this will be the first RPG I really get into since Fallout 2.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Bearcat729

Supposedly there is a guy outside the imperial city that sells lockpicks, but I've never seen him

I found him by running all around the perimeter of the city. I forget what I was looking for, but he was hiding in a little nook, I'm pretty sure next to one of the gates. But he's definitely flush up against the wall.

[Galaril]

Anyone find the giant undeground lake people have ben mentioning? I haven't seen it.

[Antmeister]

Although I started this thread, today is the day I actually bought it. I hope I don't lose my life to this game and that is why I took so long before I broke down and got it. Wish me luck.

[Masked]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Anyone find the giant undeground lake people have ben mentioning? I haven't seen it.

In Sideways cave near the Imperial City there is flooded region. I wouldn't call it a lake though since the water was only a foot or two deep and around the ruins of an ancient palace. Got some nice items for my level 3 character. That is the only thing I have seen so far, but I have not explored very much.

[Yellow5]

Found a mod named "Landscape LOD Texture Replacement" that takes care of the one things that really bothered me with the game.

It replaces the original 1024x1024 landscape LOD textures with improved 2048x2048 textures. Makes the distant terrain look better, no more flat looking textures!

Screenshots and download link:

hxxp://www.tessource.net/files/file.php?id=2182

[Eaglesfan27]

Played for a few more hours tonight. I hit level 15. I'm finding some dungeons that are MUCH too hard for me. I hope it is just those dungeons are designed to be tough, and there isn't some major flaw with my character design being unveiled.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Yellow5

Found a mod named "Landscape LOD Texture Replacement" that takes care of the one things that really bothered me with the game.

It replaces the original 1024x1024 landscape LOD textures with improved 2048x2048 textures. Makes the distant terrain look better, no more flat looking textures!

Screenshots and download link:

hxxp://www.tessource.net/files/file.php?id=2182

Nice! This is why I am glad I am on a PC. Thanks for the heads up.

[ISiddiqui]

Woot... just downloaded a bunch of mods... new BT mod, a few texture mods . Sweet stuff.

[Antmeister]

So far I am enjoying the game. As usual, I picked out a Redguard and created a custom class for it. I couldn't decide between Spellsword or Nightblade, so I created my own. This is way better than I ever expected and I haven't even made it that far. I just got out of the sewers.

[Antmeister]

Has anyone messed with any NPC facepacks?

[Yellow5]

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

Nice! This is why I am glad I am on a PC. Thanks for the heads up.

Also check out hxxp://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=330112 which can be combined with the LOD textures mentioned above.

ISiddiqui thanks for reminding me about the BT Mod... I was going to grab it the other day and forgot to do it.

I'm currently running the texture mods listed above, BT Mod, a colormap mod (adds color to the map), and my own mini mod that removes the "loading..." and "Autosave" messages that flash across the screen. I'm going to remove the message about your horse being tied up outside the gate every time you enter a city and change a few other messages that I don't need to see.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Played for a few more hours tonight. I hit level 15. I'm finding some dungeons that are MUCH too hard for me. I hope it is just those dungeons are designed to be tough, and there isn't some major flaw with my character design being unveiled.

What is your character design? I noticed some things along this line around that level, however getting into the arcane university and getting powerfull items through the mages guild and fighter's guild quests has solved all of my problems.

I made a shield 100% spell for 9 seconds, that along with my staff of paralysis allow me to deal with any sword/axe fighters. And my strength of 52/blade of skill of 59 allow me to deal with anything. And it helps that I have an Ebony claymore with +40 fire damange to go with an elvish claymore with +35 frost damage. If all of that fails, I have an Ebony claymore with +100 disengrate weapon and armour.

Yes, I actually carry around 4 swords, as my main weapon is a Dremora claymore with no charges on it.

I'm a level 17, and heavy enchantments, powerfull created spells and my heavy reserves of Magicka(intelligence 104) allow me to deal with anything. If you are having problems and haven't been admitted to the arcane university I say do that ASAP, that will cure you of 95% of your problems. Grand Soul Gems and money will cure the other 5%(IE buying enchantments and spells)

[dubb93]

And also, not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but you can compound the effects of certain spells, like say...feather if you have multiple spells.

I have Lighten Load and 2 sepearate created spells that allow me to carry 275 more pounds of out dungeons than I would normally be able to. Just cast them all in a row, they will compound on top of each other.

I actually found this one out by mistake as I casted a created spell when I had already casted Lighten Load. When I noticed they compounded on top of each other I made a trip to the arcane university and created another feather spell. It drastically cuts down on the amount of trips it takes me to clear out a dungeon.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by dubb93

What is your character design? I noticed some things along this line around that level, however getting into the arcane university and getting powerfull items through the mages guild and fighter's guild quests has solved all of my problems.

I made a shield 100% spell for 9 seconds, that along with my staff of paralysis allow me to deal with any sword/axe fighters. And my strength of 52/blade of skill of 59 allow me to deal with anything. And it helps that I have an Ebony claymore with +40 fire damange to go with an elvish claymore with +35 frost damage. If all of that fails, I have an Ebony claymore with +100 disengrate weapon and armour.

Yes, I actually carry around 4 swords, as my main weapon is a Dremora claymore with no charges on it.

I'm a level 17, and heavy enchantments, powerfull created spells and my heavy reserves of Magicka(intelligence 104) allow me to deal with anything. If you are having problems and haven't been admitted to the arcane university I say do that ASAP, that will cure you of 95% of your problems. Grand Soul Gems and money will cure the other 5%(IE buying enchantments and spells)

Level 16 now: Strength around 75, Intelligence around 70, Endurance around 75, other attributes around 50. I'm using a plain elven long sword as my main weapon, and a silver mace as my backup weapon. I have some very nice boots of the Atronoch, but not too many other magical items yet. I haven't found any really good magical items from my mage or fighter's quests, but I did get those boots from one of the fighter's quests. I generally don't have many enchantments on myself as most of them I can't afford to cast. I have almost 200 mana. Destruction is my highest rated magic skill and it is only about 40. Blade is around 65 and my heavy armor just hit 75 which is nice for carrying more stuff. In any case, I think it was just a few tough random dungeons that I found. I'm handling most other stuff just fine.

[dubb93]

I generally don't have many enchantments on myself as most of them I can't afford to cast.

The great thing about enchantments is they cost no mana to cast. Once you are admitted to the arcane university(which any pure brute can get admitted to as all it amounts to are a bunch of fetch quests and dungeon crawling) you can purchase enchantments for your armour and weapons. These cost no mana to either enchant the items or to use the items. You can create powerfull enchants such as making yourself stronger, faster, resistant to magic, shield, or add 40+ damange to your sword. All it takes is money and soul gems and the effect is constant so long as your item is currently equiped.

[dubb93]

Stupid Will O'The Wisps. Anyway to heal the damage they do. I had to fight 3 of them in a fighter's guild quest and all they do is go around and damage your intelligence and willpower. Before the fight my Intelligence was 104, Willpower 94. After the fight Intelligence 98, Willpower 89.

I tried to pray at the alter but didn't get my stats back. Anyway to get these back? Because it really feels like I lost 3-4 levels by how slow my magicka builds back and the fact that I can only shoot off 1 fewer fireball than before when I have a full magicka bar.

If this can't be healed that is completely stupid and the easiest way to make the game harder. "Let's just take away about 3 or 4 levels of work from the players stats. They will love it."

[Warhammer]

try restore [attribute] potions

[Eaglesfan27]

Yep, I make tons of restore attribute potions. I still have a very hard time killing Will O'The Wisps (my normal weapon doesn't damage them.) I didn't realize that about enchantments. I only need one more mage's recommendation to get into the Arcane University, and then that should significantly help my character. I have plenty of soul stones (but very little charge in them so far.)

[jeff061]

I hate wisps, I generally have to sink 20 arrows into them while running backwards. They suck me dry if they get close.

My Willpower is a little bit lower and I've been wondering why, must of been the Wisps.

[TroyF]

How do you put souls into the stones? I have a crapload of those things, but no idea how to fill them. As I'm now carrying 4 magical swords of different types, I'd like to find a way to charge them up without having to spend hundreds of gold to do it.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by TroyF

How do you put souls into the stones? I have a crapload of those things, but no idea how to fill them. As I'm now carrying 4 magical swords of different types, I'd like to find a way to charge them up without having to spend hundreds of gold to do it.

You have to use the spell "soul trap." I still can't cast it as I didn't specialize in mysticism

However, I'm only 2 points away from being able to cast it.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

You have to use the spell "soul trap." I still can't cast it as I didn't specialize in mysticism

However, I'm only 2 points away from being able to cast it.

I think you have to cast the Soul Trap spell and then kill something while the spell is still active.

[Deattribution]

Sounds like 360 owners may get a couple mods after all.... at a cost though.

Oblivion Horse Armor Now Available
Ready For Purchase on the X360 Marketplace.
by Charles Onyett

April 3, 2006 - Today a Horse Armor Pack for The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion was made available on the Xbox 360 Marketplace. For 200 Microsoft Points ($2.50 USD) players can download a 2.52 MB file that will automatically be incorporated into the game. Upon restarting the game after downloading, a notice will pop up as the extra content loads. Once in the actual game, the horse armor will be immediately accessible.

Both elven and steel armor sets will be ready for purchase in-game. The elven armor is of a gilded tint, elaborately and ornately designed while the steel is more workmanlike and dull. After the first set, the armor costs 500 gold pieces and can be placed on any horse the player legitimately owns. In addition to giving the horse a significant upgrade in visual appeal, the armor also functions as insulation against enemy attacks.

hxxp://xbox360.ign.com/articles/699/699821p1.html

[Brillig]

Supposedly they are planning to charge for the PC mod for this too. $2.50 may sound cheap, but it's incredibly overpriced, I think - the entire game cost $50, after all. Does barding really represent an effort equivalent to 5% of the effort to produce the whole game?

Looks like a cheap stunt by Bethesda to make a quick buck. This may be the last product of theirs I buy for a long time...

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by Brillig

Supposedly they are planning to charge for the PC mod for this too. $2.50 may sound cheap, but it's incredibly overpriced, I think - the entire game cost $50, after all. Does barding really represent an effort equivalent to 5% of the effort to produce the whole game?

Looks like a cheap stunt by Bethesda to make a quick buck. This may be the last product of theirs I buy for a long time...

Umm just don't buy them then... It's not like any of them will be or are mandatory, most games are what they are (and some suck big time for $50) when you purchase them... no option to add anything, and you've paid 50 bucks for it. I like the idea of atleast having the option, especially if you have the PC version - people have already released several excellent mods with many sure to come.

[Brillig]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

Umm just don't buy them then... It's not like any of them will be or are mandatory, most games are what they are (and some suck big time for $50) when you purchase them... no option to add anything, and you've paid 50 bucks for it. I like the idea of atleast having the option, especially if you have the PC version - people have already released several excellent mods with many sure to come.

I'm not going to buy them, duh. Or anything else from Bethesda if this is their new business model.

Just because some games suck is a justification for them overcharging? Jeeze, with Maximum-Football on the market, the barding mod should be going for $25, minimum. Try not to be such a fan-boy. I love the game, but that doesn't change the fact that $2.50 is a price gouge. And if it's successful, I don't see any reason for them not to continue. Why bother making an expansion pack at, say, $30-40, when you can chop it up into 20 modules and sell em for $2.50-$5 to gullible fools? Or better yet, let's get people to sign up for a monthly fee to get the Content-Mod-Of-The-Month.

Color me disgusted.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Brillig

I'm not going to buy them, duh. Or anything else from Bethesda if this is their new business model.

Just because some games suck is a justification for them overcharging? Jeeze, with Maximum-Football on the market, the barding mod should be going for $25, minimum. Try not to be such a fan-boy. I love the game, but that doesn't change the fact that $2.50 is a price gouge. And if it's successful, I don't see any reason for them not to continue. Why bother making an expansion pack at, say, $30-40, when you can chop it up into 20 modules and sell em for $2.50-$5 to gullible fools? Or better yet, let's get people to sign up for a monthly fee to get the Content-Mod-Of-The-Month.

Color me disgusted.

How is this as bad as all of the Massively Multiplayer games, like WOW, where on top of your initial 50 you pay a monthly fee and then more for any expansion packs...here you buy a great game, have tons of free modding available, and the option to buy some extra offical items if your really hardcore about the game. Im sorry, this is fine to me while MMO's are crazy to me...color me disgusted with that argument

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

Although I started this thread, today is the day I actually bought it. I hope I don't lose my life to this game and that is why I took so long before I broke down and got it. Wish me luck.

I'm watching...

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by Brillig

I'm not going to buy them, duh. Or anything else from Bethesda if this is their new business model.

Just because some games suck is a justification for them overcharging? Jeeze, with Maximum-Football on the market, the barding mod should be going for $25, minimum. Try not to be such a fan-boy. I love the game, but that doesn't change the fact that $2.50 is a price gouge. And if it's successful, I don't see any reason for them not to continue. Why bother making an expansion pack at, say, $30-40, when you can chop it up into 20 modules and sell em for $2.50-$5 to gullible fools? Or better yet, let's get people to sign up for a monthly fee to get the Content-Mod-Of-The-Month.

Color me disgusted.

Fan-boy, haha. Try not being such a whiner, you got what you paid for why are you bitching? They announced this plan months before the game was ever released, and they also already announced they are already working on an expansion... Go find something else to piss and moan about that you have no idea what youre talking about.

The majority of their small content releases will be directed towards the 360 crowd since the PC crowd will make their own content, including content Bethesda is trying to sell.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Brillig

I'm not going to buy them, duh. Or anything else from Bethesda if this is their new business model.

Just because some games suck is a justification for them overcharging? Jeeze, with Maximum-Football on the market, the barding mod should be going for $25, minimum. Try not to be such a fan-boy. I love the game, but that doesn't change the fact that $2.50 is a price gouge. And if it's successful, I don't see any reason for them not to continue. Why bother making an expansion pack at, say, $30-40, when you can chop it up into 20 modules and sell em for $2.50-$5 to gullible fools? Or better yet, let's get people to sign up for a monthly fee to get the Content-Mod-Of-The-Month.

Color me disgusted.

I truly hope this is only for the X-Box, but my question is this. Does this apply to user created mods as well or the official ones that Bethseda creates? I still don't think it would be a good move on their part, either way, but I can swallow it a lot easier if it didn't apply to user created mods.

If the mods are Bethseda made, I won't have too much of a problem with it because if you get 10 of them, it is very much like an expansion pack with any other game, but it all depends on how much the mods add to the game. If it just simple content, this is a bad move.

[Brillig]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

How is this as bad as all of the Massively Multiplayer games, like WOW, where on top of your initial 50 you pay a monthly fee and then more for any expansion packs...here you buy a great game, have tons of free modding available, and the option to buy some extra offical items if your really hardcore about the game. Im sorry, this is fine to me while MMO's are crazy to me...color me disgusted with that argument

A. There are MMO's with no monthly fees.
B. MMO's have costs for servers, bandwidth, gamemasters and customer service.
C. The original dumb argument was "If you don't like it, fine, don't pay, but there's nothing wrong with it because I think it's fine." How does this argument not also then apply to MMO's?
D. Where did I say MMO's pricing model was fine?

Next strawman please.

[Brillig]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

Fan-boy, haha. Try not being such a whiner, you got what you paid for why are you bitching? They announced this plan months before the game was ever released, and they also already announced they are already working on an expansion... Go find something else to piss and moan about that you have no idea what youre talking about.

The majority of their small content releases will be directed towards the 360 crowd since the PC crowd will make their own content, including content Bethesda is trying to sell.

Try not being such an argumentative ass then. All I said was - "If this is Bethesda's new business model, they've lost a customer." And your over-the-top rabid defense of them, combined with the "If you don't like it go away" crap makes you, by definition, A FAN BOY.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

Fan-boy, haha. Try not being such a whiner, you got what you paid for why are you bitching? They announced this plan months before the game was ever released, and they also already announced they are already working on an expansion... Go find something else to piss and moan about that you have no idea what youre talking about.

The majority of their small content releases will be directed towards the 360 crowd since the PC crowd will make their own content, including content Bethesda is trying to sell.

Oooh...I didn't know anything about the expansion. Is this info on their main site? I have to admit I knew nothing about an expansion, but I am curious to see what it is going to add.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by Brillig

Try not being such an argumentative ass then. All I said was - "If this is Bethesda's new business model, they've lost a customer." And your over-the-top rabid defense of them, combined with the "If you don't like it go away" crap makes you, by definition, A FAN BOY.

And beyond your initial response, the other responses make you, by defintion, A MORON.

I simply said just don't buy them, you acted as if their model was pushing something onto you, as if they tacked on some extra cost you didn't know about... I never said just go away, but you'd probably do yourself a favor.


Antmiester - their plans to release OPTIONAL content at a price has nothing to do with user-created mods for the PC, it's mostly directed towards the 360 crowd that cannot create mods, and if a willing modder wanted to create the exact same content with his or her own work for free for the PC version, there would be no issue.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

Oooh...I didn't know anything about the expansion. Is this info on their main site? I have to admit I knew nothing about an expansion, but I am curious to see what it is going to add.

No word on the actual content yet, I'd imagine it's too soon.

"And what's next the Bethesda team? According to Pete, once the game is shipped the team will be split into groups. One group will focus on support for Oblivion such as patches, updates, and expansions. Another group will focus on the next Elder Scrolls game. And finally one group will be working on Fallout 3."- Xbox 365

[jbmagic]

Neverwinter Nights did the same thing and sold some mods for download by paying and available in stores too now.

[Antmeister]

Why did you have to bring up Fallout 3? When I heard that Bethseda took over the Fallout franchise, I couldn't be happier. I can't wait to see what they do with this game, because I have a feeling it will be the most immersive tactical game ever made. Ok, well at least it's that good in my own mind.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Neverwinter Nights did the same thing and sold some mods for download by paying and available in stores too now.

Weren't those more like expansion packs? I still get your point though, they were user made adventures that were popular and now they are being sold instead of free.

[Antmeister]

jbmagic, I stand corrected, they still call them modules. I just didn't associate them as so, because they are entirely different adventures.

[Wolvendancer]

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

Why did you have to bring up Fallout 3? When I heard that Bethseda took over the Fallout franchise, I couldn't be happier.

Unlike every other Fallout fan on the face of the planet.

No doubt it will a very pretty, very vacant First Person game, with TEH RADIANT AI (which causes the NPCs to ignore the fact that, you know, you just stole something from them when they speak to you), an inane conversation minigame that replace actual story and dialog, and the wonderful tactical turn-based combat replaced by an abortive FPS monstrosity.

Oblivion is semi-fun first-person adventure game with some enormous flaws, but in every important way, it is a step back what is now apparent was the golden age of computer RPGs - Baldur's Gate 2, Fallout 1 & 2, Planescape: Torment. Hell, Oblivion is even a step back from many of the things Daggerfall did well. If Bethesda can't even learn from their own games, I have no faith they will keep the heart of Fallout alive. The Fallout 3 that Troika would have made would likely have been 3/4ths complete and full of bugs, but it would have had a soul.