NFL Week 17

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

This is the most fun I've ever had as a football fan.

Actually I take that back. Nothing will ever top 2002.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And I'd say that anyone who doesn't believe that it's at the very least a distinct possibility given the incredible amounts of money involved has to be astonishingly naive.

At this point, there really isn't a single competitive sport - large or small - that I have complete confidence in not being "rigged" to at least some extent.

Now be sure to read carefully, because I'm not saying that I'm convinced that all of them are, just that there really isn't a single sport that I would be particularly surprised to eventually discover was.

Completely laughable that the NFL would be rigging games. Perhaps a rogue referee, I give you that, but that's all. Let me ask you how much the league loses financially, including the value of each franchise, if its ever discovered that the NFL itself has been fixing games. Untold billions, that's how much. To the contrary, with the money involved in the NFL, there is every motivation for the NFL to make the game as clean as possible.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Finally, do you really think pointing out that several NFL officials are also attorneys really helps your case?

No other profession regulates it's members' behavior more closely than attorneys. Their reputation is largely based on criminals who had to do jail time and abusive husbands that got cleaned out in divorces. But that's a dicussion for another thread.

I don't know what to say anymore. Maybe the NFL decided that the Patriots should be 16-0 this year, but they hadn't come up with this idea in 35 years prior. Maybe as a Pats fan I should temper my excitement, because after all, all the games are probably fixed anyway. The Colts and Broncos, all other teams that came close - the NFL probably just decided it wasn't the right time.

How can you watch ANY sporting event beliving this to be true? Why don't you just read about JFK and Elvis and let the rest of us enjoy the games? It's amazing when people watch a game, and then, and only when, there's an outcome they don't like, it was the NFL that decided the outcome.

That's what I think the proponents of this theory want, plain and simple. Tainting an outcome that they're not happy with. It's such petty bullshit.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

First, you do realize that the league isn't the only entity making money from the games, right?

Second, TV deals do expire and do come up for renewal.

Third, an undefeated Patriots team likely ensures all-time record ratings for every round they play in.

Finally, do you really think pointing out that several NFL officials are also attorneys really helps your case?

Jon, do you honestly think it would be possible to keep this quiet? With all the people who despise the Patriots, there isn't one that would know about such a fix and blow the whistle?

Also, I highly doubt that the extra revenue gain that would come with a 19-0 Patriots team would be worth the potential disaster that would entail if anyone found out about it.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I have no dog in this fight. I'm simply making the point that the calls you mentioned do not even out. The call against Toomer is as bad a call as a referee can make. That doesn't mean the game was rigged, or the bad calls stole it from the Giants, or the Giants shitty playcalling wasn't their ultimate undoing. It just means that it's one of the worst calls I've ever seen in football and your comparison to an excessive celebration penalty is way off the mark.

Right, but in the grand scheme of things, we are talking one atrocious call against the Giants. There was no "countless" bad calls as some have been intimating here. Atrocious calls happen every game. Some games, they go against the Pats, in others they do not. That one bad call has almost no effect in the game itself.

[Cringer]

What the hell is all the hate for the Titans and Vince Young? Guess what? They are one of the top teams in the league. Guess how I know this....go ahead.....

They made the playoffs!!

Did I actually see a Titan fan bitching about his team making the playoffs? That is some pathetic crap right there. Saying your coaches and QB should be gone? Pretty sad. A second year QB should be doing what exactly, matching Tom Brady's numbers? Give the kid some more time in the league before you label him Rex Grossman II or some other crap QB. I really get tired of people thinking guys should be a star right away in the NFL. Not everyone is a hall of fame player who can do that.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Great quotes St. Cronin from last year's thread. It's all there to see in terms of the double talk from some of the Pat's critics on this board. Apparently, for some, we are neither allowed to discuss bad calls that go against the Pats nor are we allowed to criticize others that complain about bad calls against the Pats' opponents.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Right, but in the grand scheme of things, we are talking one atrocious call against the Giants. There was no "countless" bad calls as some have been intimating here. Atrocious calls happen every game. Some games, they go against the Pats, in others they do not. That one bad call has almost no effect in the game itself.

Which is different than saying the two calls were equally bad. I'm not sure why you insist on responding to an argument I'm not making.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Great quotes St. Cronin from last year's thread. It's all there to see in terms of the double talk from some of the Pat's critics on this board. Apparently, for some, we are neither allowed to discuss bad calls that go against the Pats nor are we allowed to criticize others that complain about bad calls against the Pats' opponents.

Just imagine the response in that thread if a Pats fan claimed the outcome of last year's AFC Championship game was rigged.

16-0. Can't be tainted even by jackasses.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Which is different than saying the two calls were equally bad. I'm not sure why you insist on responding to an argument I'm not making.

Sorry. You piped in late and thought you were basically part of the Lathum contingent who were arguing that the refereeing was "lopsided". I agree, those calls were not even. But they were both bad, which I guess is my point.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

StC & Molson,

Just in case you wanted to know what it was like in person.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Cringer

A second year QB should be doing what exactly, matching Tom Brady's numbers? Give the kid some more time in the league before you label him Rex Grossman II or some other crap QB.

Perhaps not Tom Brady numbers... but better than a QB rating under 70, I'd think.

I mean, really, that team is in the playoffs because of the defense.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Cringer

What the hell is all the hate for the Titans and Vince Young? Guess what? They are one of the top teams in the league. Guess how I know this....go ahead.....

They made the playoffs!!

Did I actually see a Titan fan bitching about his team making the playoffs? That is some pathetic crap right there. Saying your coaches and QB should be gone? Pretty sad. A second year QB should be doing what exactly, matching Tom Brady's numbers? Give the kid some more time in the league before you label him Rex Grossman II or some other crap QB. I really get tired of people thinking guys should be a star right away in the NFL. Not everyone is a hall of fame player who can do that.

Cringer, I agree with that, if you;ll agree with this, the hype machine on Vince Young was so amped up, and his performance both last year and this year so far has done nothing to deserve it in the NFL.

People rightfully attack his QB Rating, his lack of passing mecahincs, and so forth, and then some othe rpople, oftne fans, will denf Young by pointing to the number of games he won as a starter in his rookie season, but Kyle Orton won a bunch of games, how come no one defended him when he was attacked for havign a woeful QBing.

So a lot o ffans are tired of the hype mahciens that enter the NFL and then never produce at the level of their hype, but still have a lot of denfeder, as if their hyped up player is the best thing since Jerry Rice. Example sinclude Reggie Bush, Vince Young, and Michael Vick.

After all, my offense is piloted by a guy in his first season as a starter, but he has bene in the lague for years prior to this, learing his craft, and Yougn hasn;t and that's fine if Youg grows into a good QB someday, but for now, you can understand why many view Young as a disappointment.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Cringer, I agree with that, if you;ll agree with this, the hype machine on Vince Young was so amped up, and his performance both last year and this year so far has done nothing to deserve it in the NFL.

People rightfully attack his QB Rating, his lack of passing mecahincs, and so forth, and then some othe rpople, oftne fans, will denf Young by pointing to the number of games he won as a starter in his rookie season, but Kyle Orton won a bunch of games, how come no one defended him when he was attacked for havign a woeful QBing.

So a lot o ffans are tired of the hype mahciens that enter the NFL and then never produce at the level of their hype, but still have a lot of denfeder, as if their hyped up player is the best thing since Jerry Rice. Example sinclude Reggie Bush, Vince Young, and Michael Vick.

After all, my offense is piloted by a guy in his first season as a starter, but he has bene in the lague for years prior to this, learing his craft, and Yougn hasn;t and that's fine if Youg grows into a good QB someday, but for now, you can understand why many view Young as a disappointment.

Are you working your way over to the Drunk Guy thread?

No he has not lived up to the hype.

Yes the hype was overdone on the guy. He had some impressive games last year IIRC. Maybe not big numbers, but stepped up and made some plays that helped win. His completion percentage went up over 10 points this year too which shows me some improvement.

I have no idea if the guy will be a success or not. What I do know is it is too early IMO to judge that despite the hype. People buying into hype is a big part of the problem, and I get turned off by the ESPN's who only want to hype the man of the moment and then create a top ten list.

It kind of goes along with the Cleveland debate for me. Cleveland should clearly keep Anderson, have him as the starter, and Quinn can sit on the bench. Yet there is all this talk like that is just soooooo wrong of Cleveland to do, or it is impossible because Quinn is a hyped up first rounder. Rodgers seems to be living his life after being a hyped up first round QB who has sat on the bench. Rivers lived. Sometimes it might even be better for the guy in the long run, probably is in my opinion.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

Young out, Collins in.

Who would have thought that this would be the turning point in Tennessee winning the game...

It may sound crazy, but Collins may give The Titans a better shot at winning in the postseason than Young.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Arles

Who would have thought that this would be the turning point in Tennessee winning the game...

It may sound crazy, but Collins may give The Titans a better shot at winning in the postseason than Young.

Maybe, but Vince Young is more Now than Kerry Collins and nothing you say can take that away from him.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Arles

Who would have thought that this would be the turning point in Tennessee winning the game...

It may sound crazy, but Collins may give The Titans a better shot at winning in the postseason than Young.

When it comes to their first round game I am not sure about that. San Diego would probably enjoy going against a straight drop back QB who doesn't move too much. Blitzers galore......

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

No other profession regulates it's members' behavior more closely than attorneys.

Okay, just for future reference, when you're down to defending the ethical character of attorneys ... punt.

How can you watch ANY sporting event beliving this to be true?

With a realistic eye toward the possibilities.
It's also one reason I watch less sports than I used to.

It's amazing when people watch a game, and then, and only when, there's an outcome they don't like, it was the NFL that decided the outcome.

You're grossly overestimating how big a shit I give about the Patriots or the NFL.

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by Arles

Who would have thought that this would be the turning point in Tennessee winning the game...

It may sound crazy, but Collins may give The Titans a better shot at winning in the postseason than Young.

Collins is a much better passer then Young, if you give him a pocket.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

Collins is a much better passer then Young, if you give him a pocket.

Much better? Based on his 55.5 completion % and his career 73.3 QB Rating I am going to have to disagree with this.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

it's acceptable to attack the Pats for everything up to but just short of the war in Iraq

As ridiculous as these threads become every single week, I really don't see why we have to stop short anymore.

WMDs are buried both underneath Gillette Stadium and Bill Belichick's driveway. Discuss.

[larrymcg421]

QB ratings in 2nd year as starter

Brian Griese: 102.9
Tim Couch: 77.3
Eli Manning: 75.9
Jake Plummer: 75.0
Brett Favre: 72.2
Kyle Boller: 70.5
Vince Young: 69.5
Drew Brees: 67.5

[Vince]

I have to say, I was incredibly entertained by the sign in the crowd of Lucy wearing a Titans helmet and Charlie Brown wearing a Browns helmet as he whiffed at the place kick.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Radii

As ridiculous as these threads become every single week, I really don't see why we have to stop short anymore.

WMDs are buried both underneath Gillette Stadium and Bill Belichick's driveway. Discuss.

Best post of the thread. By a considerable margin.

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Much better? Based on his 55.5 completion % and his career 73.3 QB Rating I am going to have to disagree with this.

I said if you give him a pocket. Without a pocket he is terrible. Last year Young could scramble which helped them, because their line was terrible. This year their line is better so Collins can be more effective.

You put Collins behind that Patriots line and he has numbers that are out of this world.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Some classic quotes from last year's Championship game thread:
Quote:



Quote:



Quote:

I think you're getting into a habit here. Here's what you posted in that very thread:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Some comments from last year's Super Bowl thread:
Quote:



Quote:



Quote:

[st.cronin]

Well, I guess if you want to sum up my argument, its that people complain about the officials in every game.

[Noop]

Not surprised you would quote me.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You're grossly overestimating how big a shit I give about the Patriots or the NFL.

That wasn't directed towards you at all, even though I was quoting your post.

I take my job as a public service attorney extremely seriously - my impression is that most others do also. If every lawyer in Georgia is corrupt, I don't know about it.