The Official 2012-13 NHL Offseason Thread

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I just read something in the Detroit News (on-line) that the bidding for Shane Doane started at $7.5 million a year for four years. Yikes! I like Shane Doan well enough and all, but not for $7.5 million.

No way is he worth that much. That type of money is reserved for top end players (Crosby, Datsyuk, Malkin, Iginla, etc.). Doan is a good player but not great.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

No way is he worth that much. That type of money is reserved for top end players (Crosby, Datsyuk, Malkin, Iginla, etc.). Doan is a good player but not great.

Aren't those guys earning in the $9 and up million dollar/year range?

I got a feeling that the Sabres may be the team that offered him the 4-year, $30 million deal.

[bronconick]

The NHL owners should learn from the NBA and NFL about when you have your CBA's expire, preferably before free agency. I go from reading about Minnesota blowing $196 million on two players and Doan being offered $7.5 million to "We need to cut the player cut from 57% to 46%". We all know that CBA's in sports are basically efforts by owners to save them from themselves, but it's 10x more obvious in hockey.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

The sutter contract isnt so bad.... but Parise is waaaay overpaid!

It appears that the Sabres-if the rumors were true-offered both guys contracts worth $100 million each.

Zach Parise 'ran the show' + 30 Thoughts | Hockey | CBC Sports

[Crapshoot]

You guys are hockey fans more than me, but I hear Shea Weber got a 14 year, $100M+ offer sheet from Philly.

[Dr. Sak]

Yep...Flyers fans were waiting for that splash by Holmgren. Welp he just did a cannonball into the pool

[bronconick]

That's a really convoluted way to get Shea Weber on the Kings.

I mean, that's what happens to Flyers who sign 10+ year contracts, right?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Can't see the Preds not matching.

Unless the signing bonus is so prohibitive that Nashville can't match, Philly did the dirty work negotiating a deal Weber is happy with.

All along Nashville said they wanted to sign Suter, Weber and Rinne. After Rinne, they aren't giving big money to anyone else. Erat, Fisher, etc, all around $4M.

Another interesting twist I don't know the answer 100%:

Draft pick compensation is not based on the cap hit of the entire deal, but the average salary of the first 5 years of the offersheet. Assuming the large bonus amount counts in the first 5 year clause (it is paid in the first 5 years), the average is going to be a ton higher than the yearly cap hit. So looking at 4 1sts.

$1,110,249 or below - No Compensation
Over $1,110,249 to $1,682,194 - 3rd round pick
Over $1,682,194 to $3,364,391 - 2nd round pick
Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 - 1st round pick, 3rd
Over $5,046,585 to $6,728,781 - 1st round pick, 2nd, 3rd
Over $6,728,781 To $8,410,976 - Two 1st Round Picks, 2nd, 3rd
Over $8,410,976 - Four 1st Round Picks

[Logan]

Nashville can go get a short term loan to pay the signing bonus if they can't afford it. They have to match.

[bronconick]

The potential ticket sales they'd lose from losing both Suter and Weber in a single offseason is going to be a counterweight to however absurdly frontloaded Holmgren made this.

[Grover]

Holy balls.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Evil Ray Shero ‏@Evil_Shero

Offer sheets are the Ric Flair thumb to the eye of the ‪#nhl‬.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Aye caramba!

Very aggressive move by Holmgren. Hard to say Weber isn't worth two first round picks, a second and a third. He's young still and one of the top three defensemen in the game.

Rumors had it that prior to all this the Wings were among some of the teams actively trying to trade for Weber. That's good to hear, but you have to think that Holland wasn't quite aggressive enough. He may have to step up his game.

[Grover]

Shea Weber's Massive Flyers Offer Sheet Is A CBA-Beating Masterpiece

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Aye caramba!

Very aggressive move by Holmgren. Hard to say Weber isn't worth two first round picks, a second and a third. He's young still and one of the top three defensemen in the game.

Rumors had it that prior to all this the Wings were among some of the teams actively trying to trade for Weber. That's good to hear, but you have to think that Holland wasn't quite aggressive enough. He may have to step up his game.

It would be 4 1sts. Offer sheet compensation based on the first 5 years of the deal, not the length of the deal.

Reading the following break down

Years 1 - 4: $1m salary + $13m bonus = $14M per
Years 5 - 6: $4m salary + $8m bonus = $12M per
Years 7 - 10: $6M salary w/ no bonus = $6M per
Year 11: $3m salary w/ no bonus = $3M per
Years 12 - 14: $1m salary w/ no bonus = $1m per


$110M over 14 = $7.857 cap hit

Compensation would be based on first 5, $13.6M per = 4 firsts

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Compensation would be based on first 5, $13.6M per = 4 firsts

And to the Flyers, he's absolute worth four first round picks that would be picking most likely from 22-29.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Grover

And to the Flyers, he's absolute worth four first round picks that would be picking most likely from 22-29.

Oh I agree. Unless Nashville absolutely can't make those payment the first 4 seasons, they must match.

Sure, they are paying $56M to one player over that stretch, but without him, they probably lose that much over the next 4 seasons. Those 4 picks don't help them makes the playoffs in the next 2-3 seasons. 3 seasons with no playoffs = unrealized playoff revenue, decreased ticket base, decreased corporate sponsorship....etc etc etc.

Also, and this is a pretty small detail, but the Preds remain about $12M under the cap floor today. If Weber is gone, who are they spending that on? I don't know the exact fines, but assuming it's a loss of picks + fines, so more $$$ out of the owners pockets.

[bronconick]

I think Holmgren misread the CBA again on a small issue. The Preds don't have to match a NTC/NMC on an offer sheet.

I seriously doubt they'd shell out $27 million before he's eligible to be traded and move him right away, but 3-4-5 years down the road, you've got Shea Weber locked up for 9-11 years with no restrictions on where to send him unlike say, Rick Nash. Line up the trade proposals, league!

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by bronconick

I think Holmgren misread the CBA again on a small issue. The Preds don't have to match a NTC/NMC on an offer sheet.

I seriously doubt they'd shell out $27 million before he's eligible to be traded and move him right away, but 3-4-5 years down the road, you've got Shea Weber locked up for 9-11 years with no restrictions on where to send him unlike say, Rick Nash. Line up the trade proposals, league!

True, but why trade Shea if you already got through the big money portion of the deal?

[bronconick]

If he's cramping their style salary wise? I dunno. I've seen a bunch of people this morning act like he's going to demand a trade in 13 months and then the Preds are screwed like the Blue Jackets.

[Grover]

The issue with the Preds is paying out the bonuses. The franchise is listed by Forbes as worth $163M. Giving $26M over one year to one player is a huge hit of the club's worth.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by bronconick

I think Holmgren misread the CBA again on a small issue. The Preds don't have to match a NTC/NMC on an offer sheet.

I seriously doubt they'd shell out $27 million before he's eligible to be traded and move him right away, but 3-4-5 years down the road, you've got Shea Weber locked up for 9-11 years with no restrictions on where to send him unlike say, Rick Nash. Line up the trade proposals, league!

And with a big chunk of the money out of the way, he's obviously even more attractive.

What would you rather have: 4 first round picks (late) and $27 million saved, or outlaying the cash and bringing in at least one premium NHL player who you would never be able to sign, likely another top 6/top 4 NHLer, at least one top prospect, and 2 1st rounders? Give me the latter and let my accounting department get creative.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by bronconick

I think Holmgren misread the CBA again on a small issue. The Preds don't have to match a NTC/NMC on an offer sheet.

I seriously doubt they'd shell out $27 million before he's eligible to be traded and move him right away, but 3-4-5 years down the road, you've got Shea Weber locked up for 9-11 years with no restrictions on where to send him unlike say, Rick Nash. Line up the trade proposals, league!

Originally Posted by Logan

And with a big chunk of the money out of the way, he's obviously even more attractive.

What would you rather have: 4 first round picks (late) and $27 million saved, or outlaying the cash and bringing in at least one premium NHL player who you would never be able to sign, likely another top 6/top 4 NHLer, at least one top prospect, and 2 1st rounders? Give me the latter and let my accounting department get creative.

This...er these

It's still a large outlay of cash, but of the three options:

1) 4 1st round picks, most likely in the late 20's, plus Nashville's own 4 1sts, say middle of the round. Hit on 6 of those 8, and hope they become above average NHL players, and maybe one approaching star player.

2) Keep star player for the next 14 years.

3) Keep star player for next 4 year, parlay him into top 6 forward, top 4 defenseman, prospect + picks...and if they are smart/lucky, all cost controlled for awhile for less than the $14M they'd have been paying Weber.

Give me options 2 or 3 please

Originally Posted by Logan

And with a big chunk of the money out of the way, he's obviously even more attractive.

What would you rather have: 4 first round picks (late) and $27 million saved, or outlaying the cash and bringing in at least one premium NHL player who you would never be able to sign, likely another top 6/top 4 NHLer, at least one top prospect, and 2 1st rounders? Give me the latter and let my accounting department get creative.

At face value, I get the $27M saved. But they've got to sign some players to reach the cap floor. Weber unsigned, they are currently $12M under. So that's really $15M savings. Factor in loss on ticket sales, playoff revenue, corporate sponsorship (assuming a collapse by the Preds)...where are we now? $5M savings?

[Logan]

Good point on the cap floor.

As a fan of an East team, how can I get these posts into the hands of Nashville?

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Grover

The issue with the Preds is paying out the bonuses. The franchise is listed by Forbes as worth $163M. Giving $26M over one year to one player is a huge hit of the club's worth.

No, the issue is whether the owners (Will the Preds get Fritch's riches? | nashvillepost.com W. Brett Wilson Net Worth | Celebrity Net Worth ) want to pay out the bonuses as investing in the current team and fanbase, or start over.

Just like the Flyers aren't restricted by their team's worth, but can call on Comcast if their owners feel like it.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Grover

The issue with the Preds is paying out the bonuses. The franchise is listed by Forbes as worth $163M. Giving $26M over one year to one player is a huge hit of the club's worth.

They'll apply for a Phoenix-style loan from the NHL to keep them afloat for awhile. Ray Shero was the assistant GM in Nashville prior to becoming the GM of Bettman's model franchise...he'll vouch for Poile, and it will happen.

[Pyser]

i hate the flyers, but i have to applaud their aggressiveness in building a team, year in and out

[Suburban Rhythm]

Shea Weber and/or his agent don't seem really bright.

It's being reported he wants nothing to do with Nashville. The agent told THE FAN "If Ryan (Suter) doesn't leave, I'm not here talking to you guys today"

So the logical answer is clearly sign an offersheet that the team you say you don't want to play for any longer can choose to match, and control you for the next 14 seasons?

Seems solid.

[Galaxy]

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/darren_dreger/?id=401000

So it sounds like Philly and Nashville were talking trade, but the Preds got greedy, and Philly basically gave Nashville the finger?

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Aren't those guys earning in the $9 and up million dollar/year range?

Nah, they make between $6-7.5 mil/year on average. Nobody that I am aware of makes $9mil/year in the NHL, even Crosby makes less at around $7.8mil/year.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Nah, they make between $6-7.5 mil/year on average. Nobody that I am aware of makes $9mil/year in the NHL, even Crosby makes less at around $7.8mil/year.

Crosby was, and remains, at 8.7....he's pretty superstitious with that number.

Ovechkin is the only player with a cap hit over $9 at $9.53.

Plenty of players making over $9M in a season - Parise and Suter in their upcoming deals, Erhoff and Brad Richards last season in the first year of their long term deals with the Sabres and Rangers. All 4 of those players, I believe, made $12M last year.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Interesting news

Pens dismiss medical team | TribLIVE

The Penguins have fired their longtime team physician, Dr. Charles Burke.
Burke, 57, who oversaw center Sidney Crosby’s concussion treatment and Mario Lemieux’s career-long back problems, told the Tribune-Review he was informed July 10 that he and the team’s medical staff were being dismissed...

...Burke twice cleared Crosby to return to play last season, but Crosby has played in only 63 regular-season games dating to January 2011, when he suffered his concussion.

[bronconick]

Didn't they misdiagnose one of his concussions as a neck injury or vice versa as well?

[bhlloy]

Nashville has to match. Absolutely has to with the cap floor. If they don't you might as well contract the team or move it to Hamilton. That would be white flag on the level I don't think we have seen from many other pro franchises

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Didn't they misdiagnose one of his concussions as a neck injury or vice versa as well?

Multiple lines of thinking

Never really certain if there were multiple concussions. Or when. Concussion from Steckel hit in WC, and/or Hedman hit vs Tampa the next game, and/or after 1st return, vs Boston, running into Kunitz.

Then somewhere along the way, within those, the neck injury.

Possibly the neck injury occured at the same time as the initial concussion(s), and played a role in those not clearing. Or, the concussion(s) were cleared, and the symptoms he was experiencing were the result of the undiagnosed neck injury.

So to confuse you even more, the answer is...maybe?

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Crosby was, and remains, at 8.7....he's pretty superstitious with that number.

Ovechkin is the only player with a cap hit over $9 at $9.53.

Plenty of players making over $9M in a season - Parise and Suter in their upcoming deals, Erhoff and Brad Richards last season in the first year of their long term deals with the Sabres and Rangers. All 4 of those players, I believe, made $12M last year.

I had a feeling I was off on Crosby's salary. As for the numbers, I was really referring to cap hits, not necessarily total salary per season.

[Suburban Rhythm]

This made me laugh...I love the idea of some ditch digger questioning one of the Preds ownership partners. Especially when the guy upped his stake to 12%.

The $ is there to keep Weber.

[Logan]

Dregger reporting that Nash to NYR is being finalized.

I'm nervous about what's going back. I'll go on record that if Stepan is in, I'll be pissed. Willing to lose Del Zotto.

[TurnerONU22]

Originally Posted by Logan

Dregger reporting that Nash to NYR is being finalized.

I'm nervous about what's going back. I'll go on record that if Stepan is in, I'll be pissed. Willing to lose Del Zotto.

Doubt the CBJ took back Del Zotto, they wanted forwards. Sounds like there could also be someone else heading from CBJ to NYR. Would you be OK if Stepan is in it if the Jackets added something else?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by TurnerONU22

Doubt the CBJ took back Del Zotto, they wanted forwards. Sounds like there could also be someone else heading from CBJ to NYR. Would you be OK if Stepan is in it if the Jackets added something else?

I agree on DZ, my thought for a while would be that another team would be included in order to get those assets to pass to Columbus.

I won't pretend to know what would be "enough" to include Stepan (my knowledge of organizational depth is limited beyond the Atlantic) but the Rangers are already thin at center, and while Stepan's upside might be capped a bit, he's still very productive and very young.

[TurnerONU22]

Originally Posted by Logan

I agree on DZ, my thought for a while would be that another team would be included in order to get those assets to pass to Columbus.

I won't pretend to know what would be "enough" to include Stepan (my knowledge of organizational depth is limited beyond the Atlantic) but the Rangers are already thin at center, and while Stepan's upside might be capped a bit, he's still very productive and very young.

Dreger just tweeted no Stepan. I'll just assume that Howson was taken to the cleaners yet again by another Atlantic GM.

[Pyser]

Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon and a 1st for Rick Nash is the twitter word

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Pyser

Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon and a 1st for Rick Nash is the twitter word

If true, I like that deal for NYR.

[Pyser]

and cbj pitched in a prospect and a 3rd.

i think howson sucks.

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Pyser

Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon and a 1st for Rick Nash is the twitter word

That's it? Really?

Howsen is fuckin terrible.

[TurnerONU22]

Originally Posted by Pyser

and cbj pitched in a prospect and a 3rd.

i know howson sucks.

Fixed it for you. Shouldn't have expected anything else out of him. Yes, he got the 2 NHL-ready forwards that he wanted, but there's nothing special in this deal. Guess the plan isn't to rebuild, its just to remain as mediocre as the team has been since they've came into the league.

[Fidatelo]

Holy crap NY is loaded with that trade.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Rangers win that deal, and I'm not even a big Nash fan.

I do thank Howson for me not having to see Dubinsky's shiny bitch face 6 times a year.

[bhlloy]

Howson is beyond horrible. Great trade for NY. Hopefully Bobby Ryan isn't going anywhere if that's the kind of return that is on the table

[Pyser]

so the rangers are paying nash, gaborik and richards 7.5 each or so? plus lundquist...and those d-men will get paid soon id think. interesting.