The NBA 2014-15 Regular Season Thread

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Wonder what the Thunder are up to though, as I don't see where Waiters gets minutes if guys are healthy. I'd take Jackson over Waiters in a heartbeat, and Roberson has rated as one of the best wing defenders in the league, which is something they need a lot more than ball-stopping and step-back jumpers from Waiters.

Saw him described as insurance for Jackson "who is in the final year of his contract".

I guess if they don't think they'll re-sign him then they'll do something at the deadline?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Wonder what the Thunder are up to though, as I don't see where Waiters gets minutes if guys are healthy. I'd take Jackson over Waiters in a heartbeat, and Roberson has rated as one of the best wing defenders in the league, which is something they need a lot more than ball-stopping and step-back jumpers from Waiters.

I can only see Waiters filling the same role that the Cavs were trying to fit him into. He will be the 1st or 2nd option off the bench. Also remember this is the Thunder so they are always looking down the road. Waiters has at least one more year on his contact, plus his option year.

[nol]

A++ tanking by the Knicks. Got some players and salary off their roster and also made the Cavs shorthanded enough to give Philly a win. Okafor is definitely looking good; he'll command a double team in the low post from Day 1 and he's been looking more confident on jumpers and free throws of late.

Waiters just about falls into the Josh Smith category where even if you get him for nothing, it still might not be worth messing with what you've already got. It's not like the Cavs are even pulling off a major robbery here since any positive perception of Shumpert is disproportionately influenced by his first two seasons, but there should at least be some addition by subtraction.

[RainMaker]

Dion Waiters sucks and I can't believe the Knicks were able to dump that JR Smith contract without having to give up a pick.

[Chief Rum]

Knicks won that deal. Before the trade they were one of the two teams with either Waiters or Smith. And now they have neither.

[Chief Rum]

I haven't looked deep into the numbers behind this year to last year, so perhaps someone else could go into the detail behind my gut feeling on the Clippers. But I just don't think the Clippers are as good this year, and I am not sure they can re-capture what they had before (whatever that was, since they still never got beyond the second round).

The Clips last night lost to the Hawks at home, and last week lost to the Raptors at home. Those are two very good East teams, but a championship contender should not lose to them at home. The Clippers looked bad on the road against the Grizzlies and Warriors this year, and they lost both games to the Spurs (home and away).

They beat the teams they generally should, but when they play against top talent they have consistently fallen short this year. I think the bench has consistently gotten worse year after year, from Bledsoe to Collison/Granger to Hawes/Davis/Farmar.

They're still a very good team, but I just don't see this team going further than it already has (second round), and IMO, Memphis, Golden State and probably Dallas have all passed them up in the past year.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I haven't looked deep into the numbers behind this year to last year, so perhaps someone else could go into the detail behind my gut feeling on the Clippers. But I just don't think the Clippers are as good this year, and I am not sure they can re-capture what they had before (whatever that was, since they still never got beyond the second round).

The Clips last night lost to the Hawks at home, and last week lost to the Raptors at home. Those are two very good East teams, but a championship contender should not lose to them at home. The Clippers looked bad on the road against the Grizzlies and Warriors this year, and they lost both games to the Spurs (home and away).

They beat the teams they generally should, but when they play against top talent they have consistently fallen short this year. I think the bench has consistently gotten worse year after year, from Bledsoe to Collison/Granger to Hawes/Davis/Farmar.

They're still a very good team, but I just don't see this team going further than it already has (second round), and IMO, Memphis, Golden State and probably Dallas have all passed them up in the past year.

They're definitely not in the top, championship tier of West teams right now, but that's more of a qualitative opinion based on other teams looking really, really good than one based on the particular Clippers results. By that I mean they're still pretty much at a mid-50s win pace and haven't had a ton of egregious losses (I thought the Spurs road loss was one of the higher quality games of the season).

They obviously had a pretty sluggish start and the defense doesn't look quite up to par as in past years, but I feel like part of that is because they've already been that team that's firing on all cylinders and topping the power rankings in December/January but exits in the first round. Griffin's play is concerning on the surface, but he's earned the right to be looked at as someone experimenting with his mid-range game who will turn up the intensity come playoff time.

As far as specific issues, the Hawes signing is looking really, really bad, especially when they could have instead gotten someone like Kaman or Pierce. No matter the record or seed, it's going to be about match-ups and being healthy. Having to face a team like Dallas on the road would probably be a more desirable outcome than having HCA against the Spurs/Thunder, and that's going to be playing out all across the bracket in every round this year.

[stevew]

I guess I'm the last Dion fan in the world. I knew it had to happen but I'm still sad about it.

[JPhillips]

What's the verdict on Cleveland getting Love, Shumpert, Smith and a late first for two #1 picks and a #4 pick?

[stevew]

If Love works out and stays it's a no brainer since he's still the best guy in the trade.

Now if you said I coulda had Harden for Dion and some of those picks the math changes.

[Groundhog]

Welp, two #1s in weak drafts at least, but Wiggins seems to be turning the corner a little now, while as Bennett hasn't take that step forward that I expected him to this year. I'd rather have Shumpert, Smith, Love on my team than Wiggins, Bennett, Waiters though. Probably.

Tristan Thompson has been an absolute beast this year though, probably the sole bright spot so far. He was the guy I yelled at the screen over more than anyone else the past few years but he's come out with such an aggressive mindset on the glass and is trying to dunk everything around the basket.

[whomario]

Wiggins has looked outstanding for a player with so little experience, imo. The advanced metrics will hate him this season on this trainwreck, but he is showing a tremendous amount of individual skill. Top notch footwork, good looking jumper. I really feel reminded of Durants first season lately. And yes, i actually watched quite a bit of his play, although admittedly no full games (there is no way to stomach this TWolves team right now). If Rubio has a decently healthy run yet this season, i can see his numbers going up even more. IMO, he will be a legitimate offensive star (as in "first option you feel comfortable with) within 2 years from now.

Still, that trade was a no brainer for the Cavs if you construct your team based on the window that Lebron gives you and are prepared to pick up the pieces afterwards.

- There really is no such thing as a desirable matchup in the West i think Theres some amazing teams in the NBA right now, especially in the West (but Atlanta and Chicago are looking damn good over in the East as well). The Mavs are also a team where you know they will be well coached and adjusted to their oponent come playoff time.

- OKC on the other hand can beat anybody based on talent, but their offensive gameplan is nonexistent (seriously, there is no playbook right now) and soon two of their major supporting members need the ball to be effective rather than being able to make life easier for your 2 super-duper stars.

- In the East, the Bulls have gotten a couple monster games by Pau (17/9/4 with 9 blocks, 29/16 with 5 blocks, 27/14). They are also trying to figure out a way to give more PT to Mirotic by testing him out at the 3 (with Dunleavy out). Has missed some easy looks the last few games, but still impacts games even when his shot is not falling (and still made a huge one to put Houston away last night)
Ideally, they need a backup 2 rather urgently (as good as Butler has become, he should not play 40 minutes a game), but that Frontcourt rotation is looking mighty good.

- An interesting commodity after the trade is also Sam Dalembert, who could still be a decent option in a clearly defined role for someone like the Cavs. Not eligible to sign with the Mavs unfortunately

- Since the Knicks are fire-saling, maybe some contender will fork over a conditional 2nd for Prigioni ? Now there´s a guy destined to hit a big shot or come up with a huge stop in a game 7 after not playing for 3 games.

[stevew]

If Durant/Westbrook are Stringer/Avon, and Harden was D'Angelo prob, does this make Dion the Marlo of this thing?

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by whomario

Ideally, they need a backup 2 rather urgently (as good as Butler has become, he should not play 40 minutes a game), but that Frontcourt rotation is looking mighty good.

I kinda expected Snell to take that role pretty easily, for those that watch a lot of Bulls games what's the story with Snell? I'd guess his defense must not be up to scratch because he's a pretty good shooter from 3. I guess I sort of expect all late-1st rounders for the Bulls to end up being strong rotation guys.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Welp, two #1s in weak drafts at least, but Wiggins seems to be turning the corner a little now, while as Bennett hasn't take that step forward that I expected him to this year. I'd rather have Shumpert, Smith, Love on my team than Wiggins, Bennett, Waiters though. Probably.

That says it all. It's probably the better haul by a little bit (but less so if going with the potential/defense/cap flexibility of Wiggins were a feasible option on a team with LeBron), but it obviously wouldn't be with decent drafting. Even without some magic crystal ball telling you to draft Atentokounmpo first overall in 2013, making the vanilla picks and having Valanciunas/Barnes/Drummond and Noel/Oladipo instead of Waiters and Bennett is a bundle of young players that would obviously fetch much more attractive offers or just be the core of a powerhouse team alongside James and Irving.

[JPhillips]

If Love leaves they'll be in the exact same position as Lebron 1.0. It's amazing how close they are to pissing away all those picks.

[RainMaker]

I think the trade the Cavs made was a wash in regards to the players involved. They gained a pick though which sort of makes up for having to pay JR Smith $7 million next season.

As for the Love-Wiggins deal, you do that everyday. Love was/is a top 10 player and Wiggins is years away from being one (if he ever becomes one). Lebron has a window of a few more years and you have to go all-in.

[nol]

Brandon Jennings hits a game-winner on the Spurs to give the Pistons no. 6 in a row. Monroe and Drummond combined for 37 and 28 on 15-20 shooting. This was so dumb but cracked me up when I saw it:

[BishopMVP]

Also worth noting, Rockets are 3-4 with Smith after a 20-7 start.

[whomario]

Cavs trade for Mozgov, sending 2 (likely heavily protected) first round picks. Considering they just gained a first rounder, this is of little consequence for the Cavs. Mozgovs numbers will not really endear him to the casual onlooker, but i think he will fit in great with the Cavs. Has developed into an outstanding defensive players and on offense is adept running the Pick and Roll from the Ellbow (or "the Lebron") and can actually score in the Post 1:1.
And his contract his at the very least highly reasonable, he also has played under Blatt on the russian NT.

[Neuqua]

Numbers may not show it but he gave the Bulls fits a few days ago. I'm sure the Cavs watched tape a few times and noticed it as well.

[Izulde]

Two firsts for Mozgov sounds crazy massive overpay to me.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Two firsts for Mozgov sounds crazy massive overpay to me.

So you wouldn´t trade, say, Mitch McGary and Jordan Adams for him ?

I guess one of the picks the Cavs will trade is the Memphis pick, which would very likely not be theirs before 2017 anyway (Top 5 and 15-30 protected for 2015 and 2016). And of course that will likely hurt in 2017, but that really can´t be the Cavs concern right now.

Considering that everybody knows Cleveland is all-in and desperate (and prior to today in posession of 2 extra first round picks), a little overpay is really not to be avoided. And anytime you get a starting calibre Center without giving up any of you players or cap flexibility, i think you can live with giving away that extra late first.

[Groundhog]

Agree with whomario. We went into the week with no rim protection and needing a starting SG. We now have a legit big and, when/if healthy, a starting 3/D-ish SG and, best case, a legit bench scorer. I'm happy with both deals.

[stevew]

I'm fine with all the moves too. Especially since we get close to a half season to play together.

[Brian Swartz]

Ok I have to ask ... who they heck are these Pistons and what have they done with the group that was 5-23? Seriously.

[nol]

Originally Posted by whomario

Wiggins has looked outstanding for a player with so little experience, imo. The advanced metrics will hate him this season on this trainwreck, but he is showing a tremendous amount of individual skill. Top notch footwork, good looking jumper. I really feel reminded of Durants first season lately. And yes, i actually watched quite a bit of his play, although admittedly no full games (there is no way to stomach this TWolves team right now). If Rubio has a decently healthy run yet this season, i can see his numbers going up even more. IMO, he will be a legitimate offensive star (as in "first option you feel comfortable with) within 2 years from now.


- There really is no such thing as a desirable matchup in the West i think

Wiggins has scored 20 or more in 7 of the last 8 games and is shooting over 50% from the field and 40% from 3 in that span. I've probably said this before, but lost in all the hype cycles of "Tank for X... X is a bust!" is the fact 19-year-olds are supposed to suck, even ones that end up becoming All-Star/MVP level players.

It's going to be really interesting to watch him develop given how unique it is for such a young, athletic player to be getting so many points from catch-and-shoot 3s and mid-range jumpers off of curls as opposed to transition opportunities and drives to the basket.

Guys like LeBron, Carmelo, and Durant were all light years ahead in terms of creating off the dribble, but all three shot around 25-30% from 3 early on. Wiggins does have a go-to spin move that he can pull off pretty comfortably, and I'm sure he'll be getting more space to pull off more basic drives to the basket once teams start playing him more for the jumper. If Wiggins can become a guy capable of taking it to the rim and getting 8-10 free throws per game, look out.

It's more of the "least bad matchup" for the West, but trust me, there will be a lot of gamesmanship going on that last week of the season.

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Ok I have to ask ... who they heck are these Pistons and what have they done with the group that was 5-23? Seriously.

Aside from the Josh Smith jokes, Jodie Meeks' first game this season was only 6 games before Smith was waived, and Meeks being healthy and getting back into game shape is a big help for Detroit's spacing too.

[nol]

dola: the Clippers gave Jared Cunningham to the Sixers earlier today to clear roster space for future moves. Normally I get my NBA news from Twitter, but I happened upon this when scrolling through my Facebook feed:



That's my uncle saying in Ukranian "Is that Sergei Lishouk?" and the one and only Woj making a goofy comment on it.

Since the Clippers couldn't actually give Cunningham away for salary cap reasons they had to get something in return that was as close to nothing as possible (and God knows the 76ers would never part ways with even a highly-protected 2nd round pick), and in this case it was the draft rights to Sergei Lishouk, a 2004 2nd round draft pick currently averaging 3 points per game in Spain whom my uncle just happened to know from his time with the Ukrainian national team

[Izulde]

That's awesome, nol.

I still like that trade better for Denver, though. Probably because of picks and they have more PT for Nurkic now.

[RainMaker]

I think it was a good trade for both teams. Cleveland wants to win now. Denver adds some assets. Gilbert is going to be spending a lot in the tax next year.

As for Detroit, it's a pretty funny story. Stan Van Gundy is a good coach though and I'm not too surprised he's been able to turn it around.

[whomario]

The trade better be better for Denver, they were negotiating with all the chips on their side of the table

Stan Van Gundy would propably make an awesome Coach in Europe or with a College team like Butler or Gonzaga as well, seems like he constantly gets the most out of teams with limited talent and has everybody play within their role. Not sure it is sustainable with this particular Pistons team over the heavy schedule of the NBA, but then again it is actually a team with sneaky depth on the bench.

Also, the Thunder were clobbered by the Kings and most the damage was done with Westbrook/Durant on the floor. 17-19 now with Phoenix at 22-16 and the Spurs at 21-15 (i still believe they´ll go on a big run at some point with everybody healthy)

Hawks beat the Grizzlies (who are struggling lately)

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by whomario

Also, the Thunder were clobbered by the Kings and most the damage was done with Westbrook/Durant on the floor. 17-19 now with Phoenix at 22-16 and the Spurs at 21-15 (i still believe they´ll go on a big run at some point with everybody healthy)

Hawks beat the Grizzlies (who are struggling lately)

The funny thing about the West is you could make a legitimate case for any one of the top ten teams to make a big run at some point. In fact, you could have made an strong case for the Kings to make such a run if they had not dumped their coach. The Thunder are slowly getting to a point where even if they make their big run, they may not have enough games in the season to catch up with the other teams.

Kenyon Martin heading to the Bucks on a ten day contract.

[Arles]

The Suns just won 10 of their last 12 - with 9 of the 12 games on the road. Their only losses were a 4 point loss in New Orleans and an OT loss in OKC. They are finally working in this 3 PG rotation and Bledsoe has been a beast. He's averaged 19 PPG, 7 AST, 6 REB and 2.5 steals (with 45% FG) over that stretch. The improvement of Alex Len (16 blocks in the last 4 games) as a rim protector has helped, as has Markieff Morris (18 PPG and nearly 50% shooting from 3). I'm not sure if the Suns have the depth to make the playoffs - and if Dragic, Bledsoe, Len or Markieff go down they would be in trouble. But, health permitting, these Suns have a punchers chance of making the 7/8 seed and that's more than I thought a month ago.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by whomario

THawks beat the Grizzlies (who are struggling lately)

No Z-Bo in the last 10 games is the reason. Same problem when Marc wnet down last year. They had to call up Adams and Stokes. Look for the Grizzlies to pull a deal on a 3 (Either Green from Boston or Deng from Heat) in the next few days accoring to rumors.

http://dougstats.com/14-15/MemphisGrizzliesLF.html

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Ok I have to ask ... who they heck are these Pistons and what have they done with the group that was 5-23? Seriously.

They formed a fu*king wall! (My favorite quote of the year because this is the NBA no one gets to hear usually.)

What the f*** does 'FORM A F***ING WALL' mean? - SBNation.com

[Arles]

Very interesting article on the steps the Cavs took to change $1.6 mil in cap space back in July into a $5.2 mil trade exception the team used to get Mosgov:

NBA -- How did the Cleveland Cavaliers get Timofey Mozgov? - ESPN

[SirFozzie]

So... the Celtics have acquired another possible first round pick, trading Brendan Wright to the Suns for a possible 2015 or 16 Minnesota Timberwolves first round pick (Protected 1-12 each year, if neither happen, the Celtics get the Timberwolves 2016 and 17 2nd round picks), and on the verge of trading Jeff Green to the Grizzlies for a 1st rounder and Tayshaun Prince.

I dunno, maybe Danny Ainge thinks if he stockpiles enough draft picks, he can just claim all of Kentucky's players after they one and done.

[JPhillips]

I can't recall a time when so many teams have a legit shot at the championship. I also can't recall a time when so many teams were so awful. It's like there's two divisions and half the NBA has been relegated.

[nol]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I can't recall a time when so many teams have a legit shot at the championship. I also can't recall a time when so many teams were so awful. It's like there's two divisions and half the NBA has been relegated.

The Knicks and the 76ers will probably end up with around 15-20 wins. There will be the same number of teams winning 20-30 games as there are every year. What you're seeing is the consequence of two of the NBA's most high profile franchises having their all-time worst seasons and the fact that it's easier to watch or read a recap of a crappy team's game than ever before.

[molson]

RIP Roy Tarpley. Didn't realize he was still kicking around the minor leagues as late as 2006.

Roy Tarpley, troubled but talented Maverick center, dies at 50 | Dallas Morning News

[stevew]

Cocaine is a helluva drug.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by nol

The Knicks and the 76ers will probably end up with around 15-20 wins. There will be the same number of teams winning 20-30 games as there are every year. What you're seeing is the consequence of two of the NBA's most high profile franchises having their all-time worst seasons and the fact that it's easier to watch or read a recap of a crappy team's game than ever before.

I think the talent level on 8-10 teams is abysmal, in many cases by design. These teams play each other, so someone has to win, but there's a lot of crap in the league right now.

But yes, having four of the league's marquee markets sucking simultaneously is clearly a problem.

[stevew]

YOu should lose ping pong balls for each loss in excess of 57

[whomario]

Interesting trade for the Suns, definitely an upgrade over Plumlee and a good fit with their style of play. Plus, the Suns essentially give up very little to get him (especially considering all their young players, extra picks ). So even if it turns out to be a rental (Wright is a FA after the season), they won´t be hurting over it.

Also :

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I think the talent level on 8-10 teams is abysmal, in many cases by design. These teams play each other, so someone has to win, but there's a lot of crap in the league right now.

I think it's a product of allowing teams to trade their draft picks so far out. The Knicks are already dealing in 2019 picks. So the Knicks should send their scouts to junior high schools to look for talent they can draft by then. The Knicks have to lose as much as possible this year because next season the Nuggets can swap picks with them and then Toronto gets the worse pick if a swap is made.

You can't have teams trading their 1st round pick every year (half the draft) and expect them to get better. Basically this would be like NFL teams making RGIII trades every season.

The other part is the protection of traded picks. It forces you to have your team finish in a certain spot.

Take this deal: 2015 first round draft pick from Minnesota

Minnesota's 1st round pick to Boston (via Phoenix) protected for selections 1-12 in 2015 and 1-12 in 2016; if Minnesota has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Boston by 2016, then Minnesota will instead convey its 2016 2nd round pick and 2017 2nd round pick to Boston [Minnesota-New Orleans-Phoenix, 7/27/2012; Boston-Phoenix, 1/9/2015]

So why would Minnesota rush Rubio back this year? You have Bennett, Levine and Wiggins and if you lose for the next 2 season you keep a top 12 pick both seasons and just give up two 2nd round picks which should be around 45-60 with the talent you get out of it. Mean while you have Boston trying to lose to get a good pick and hoping one of those other teams that they have a pick from loses also.

[nol]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I think the talent level on 8-10 teams is abysmal, in many cases by design. These teams play each other, so someone has to win, but there's a lot of crap in the league right now.

But yes, having four of the league's marquee markets sucking simultaneously is clearly a problem.

This happens every year, but those teams were allowed to suck anonymously before being forgotten to time. Just picked 1993-1994 as a random season. 4 teams won 20 or fewer games (tanking for Jason Kidd, Glenn Robinson, and Grant Hill!) and the 8th worst record belonged to a 28-54 Mitch Richmond Kings team that looks pretty noncompetitive. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAC/1994.html).

[Groundhog]

Although we're most likely on the way to another loss, I really like the addition of Mozgov.

[Brian Swartz]

No team that started as bad as Detroit has ever made the playoffs. They are now closer to it(two games out) than Oklahoma City is.

I don't understand the NBA this year.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

No team that started as bad as Detroit has ever made the playoffs. They are now closer to it(two games out) than Oklahoma City is.

I don't understand the NBA this year.

And people laughed when they signed Jodie Meeks...

(I also wish they had done this before I sold low on Andre Drummond.)

[mckerney]