Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by bronconick

I just realized that if Clemson and Missouri had been invited and accepted into the SEC, there would 4 Tigers and 2 teams claiming "Death Valley."

Absurd.

I believe 'Tigers' is the most common mascot in NCAA D-I.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by bronconick

I just realized that if Clemson and Missouri had been invited and accepted into the SEC, there would 4 Tigers and 2 teams claiming "Death Valley."

Absurd.

In the grand scheme of thing Clemson has a bigger claim to that just in that it means more to them. (They also seem to have used it a bit longer.) LSU and the networks just use it as a dramatic adjective more than anything.

Now Tiger Rag, which all four schools use to some degree and with some variations, should default to LSU, being that it was written in New Orleans.

[timmynausea]

Not sure what to make of this story from the AP:

Big East commish reaches out to Beebe, Swofford

By RALPH D. RUSSO, AP College Football Writer

Big East Commissioner John Marinatto says he has been in constant contact with Dan Beebe of the Big 12 and John Swofford of the Atlantic Coast Conference in recent days and has suggested the three meet to discuss conference realignment.

Marinatto didn't reveal details about his conversations with his fellow commissioners but said, "I thought it would be important for us to meet face-to-face and take the lead in trying to do things the right way."

Beebe's conference, which nearly was wiped out last year when the Pac-10 expanded, is in danger of losing Texas A&M to the Southeastern Conference.

If the Aggies end up in the SEC, the league would likely need to add at least one more member.

The Associated Press: Big East commish reaches out to Beebe, Swofford

[molson]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

Not sure what to make of this story from the AP:

The Associated Press: Big East commish reaches out to Beebe, Swofford

Haha, for a second I thought "Beebe" and "Swofford" were two 1-AA schools or something. I thought the Big East was really reaching. "Swofford" does sound like a southeastern liberal arts school though.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

Not sure what to make of this story from the AP:

The Associated Press: Big East commish reaches out to Beebe, Swofford

Seems pretty obvious. We're quickly moving to a large conference setup. Those guys are going to have to get together and find a way to form one or two superconferences if they want to keep the majority of their teams together.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by molson

Haha, for a second I thought "Beebe" and "Swofford" were two 1-AA schools or something. I thought the Big East was really reaching. "Swofford" does sound like a southeastern liberal arts school though.

Wofford College: Wofford College, established in 1854, is a private liberal arts institution with nationally recognized academic programs and award winning student housing.

Location: Spartanburg, SC

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

Not sure what to make of this story from the AP:



The Associated Press: Big East commish reaches out to Beebe, Swofford

Marinatto acting on WVU's behalf, in any negotiations, is a scary thought. He'll probably give naming rights of all of the Big East's stadiums to Texas or UNC/Duke.

I am actually feeling pretty good. Like something is happening behind the scenes, as Oliver Luck has been pretty outspoken about conference realignment in the past year, but has been tight-lipped during this cycle.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Seems pretty obvious. We're quickly moving to a large conference setup. Those guys are going to have to get together and find a way to form one or two superconferences if they want to keep the majority of their teams together.

I've got it, a plan that would probably delight the CM contingent here at FOFC:
Promotion/Relegation

The Big East will serve as the feeder league for the ACC & the Big 12, swapping the top two teams from the BE every year for the cellar dwellar in the other two.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I've got it, a plan that would probably delight the CM contingent here at FOFC:
Promotion/Relegation

The Big East will serve as the feeder league for the ACC & the Big 12, swapping the top two teams from the BE every year for the cellar dwellar in the other two.

Sweet! If we base it on football, Kansas will be in the Big East for basketball in no time

SI

[Toddzilla]

I imagine the Big East commissioner is going to say something along the lines of:

"OK, I know and you know we're a basketball-first conference and our football conference is basically a joke. There is no way we're going to be able to hold onto any of our schools that has a strong football program, so before we get robbed blind, I'm here to make a deal. Leave the core Big East schools alone and we'll let you poach anyone else that allows us to maintain our basketball dominance."

[molson]

I'd love it if everyone was just an independent again, maybe with one or two academic-based conferences.

[tarcone]

I would love a relegation/promotion system in college football. 6 20 team divisions. Top 2 move up, bottom 2 down.

If you get caught cheating you go to the bottom division.

Games are drawn from a hat on a nationally broadcast show on August 1st.

A tournament in the top division to determine the national champion.

6 home games/6 road games.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Seems pretty obvious. We're quickly moving to a large conference setup. Those guys are going to have to get together and find a way to form one or two superconferences if they want to keep their phony-baloney jobs.

Fixed.

(and I didn't get a harrumph out of that guy)

[SirFozzie]

I think the Big East, ACC and Big 12 meeting will be summed up in one sentence (with horrible grammar):

"Don't start nothin, won't be nothin"

Meaning that they'll make a pact that they won't raid each other for teams unless a conference is going down in flames.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Guess #1 - Insecurity and/or fear
Guess #2 - Institutional confusion about their perceived place in the post-secondary educational world
Guess #3 - Insanity

I can't think of many schools that would be a better fit for the SEC, not even sure I can think of any.

If you made me narrow it down, I'd say any denial would be largely a combination of my first & second guesses.

Jon,
I agree 100%. Unfortunately this idiot of a President that we now have, has his heart set (and 12.7MM in a bonus) for Clemson on a US News and World Report Top 20 Public Institution rating. He fancies Clemson as some elitest school and in several recent speeches has referenced Clemson as the real public ivy not UNC...then he sent his son to UNC...that went over like pointing at the preacher after a fart in church.

I wont go into boring detail, about 320% tuition hikes, in state 4.2 1500SAT kids being turned down because out of state rankings weigh more heavily, etc. but....he sucks.

The BOT met today 2 times for a total of 6 hours. Prsident Barker's wishes just became irrelevant. One of our BOT members is a dear friend and a professional mentor. (In fact I stayed at his house for several days leading up to my recent business sale gathering his advice/experience) there has been a formal agreement reached supposedly between FSU and Clemson. Neither will leave without the other. In my conversation I suggested that was a fair deal killer.
He replied, "Clemson will be in the ACC in 2011." I asked about 12 and 13 and he repeated "Clemson will play in the ACC in 2011."

Not really sure what all that means...just interesting conversation from someone in the know. That said he was very clear that there had been ZERO contact from anyone in the SEC with Clemson. Of course our AD and Slive are personal friends, and h has ties to Bama, Arkansas and LSU.

Originally Posted by Tigercat

In the grand scheme of thing Clemson has a bigger claim to that just in that it means more to them. (They also seem to have used it a bit longer.) LSU and the networks just use it as a dramatic adjective more than anything.

Now Tiger Rag, which all four schools use to some degree and with some variations, should default to LSU, being that it was written in New Orleans.

I'll take that trade. Deal.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

that went over like pointing at the preacher after a fart in church.

That's a quote worth remembering.

[cartman]

Here's a funny take on the situation by a writer for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram:

Texas A&M and the SEC are playing out a teenage love drama | Texas A&M Aggies | Sports News a...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Info posted yesterday on the A&M process from a Tigerboard poster. A&M in final stages and he says that Mizzou Board of Curators will begin application process this Friday.

Everything is on course for aTm move still, although some in the legislature are ginning up some bogus money losses to make the move look like a disaster for the state of Texas. All of that is to protect Baylor, UT and presumably TT.

TT has let everyone know they are willing to take their shot for the Pac 12 it isn't a totally done deal, but is beginning to look probable.

Mondo (state legislator) told me that the aTm application to the SEC is actually not much of an application but more of a request, and it won't take long to "apply". The official paperwork will happen late Wednesday or early Thursday.

MU will wait until at least Monday (August 22nd) to make application after the curators give authority to someone to act on the University's behalf this Friday (August 19th). Not sure if that will be Deaton or who?

As I've mentioned before, both aTm and MU will be voted in to the SEC unanimously.

[Ksyrup]

For the protection of the SEC, don't they want any applying schools to formally withdraw from their current conferences?

Is there any discussion of how they would fit Missouri into the divisions? Based on geography and making the fewest moves possible, it makes most sense to move Auburn to the east.

[Passacaglia]

I guess if they go to 16 a season later, they can move Auburn back to the west, and it would be back to normal.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

For the protection of the SEC, don't they want any applying schools to formally withdraw from their current conferences?

That's the whole reason there was all this 'we didn't talk to XXXX' announcements over the weekend. They wanted to avoid any tampering. Yes, they have to formally withdraw from their current conferences first.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Is there any discussion of how they would fit Missouri into the divisions? Based on geography and making the fewest moves possible, it makes most sense to move Auburn to the east.

The more interesting problem created by that seems like how to work out the schedule so that Alabama doesn't lose their long standing games with Auburn & Tennessee. Back to two permanent opponents from the other half?

That was what they used for the first few years until the inequity of Auburn playing Georgia/Florida while Miss St played Kentucky/Vandy every year got to be too much.

Then you're looking at 8, 9, or 10 conference games with about half the ways to accomplish those bringing an end to a tradition like the 92 game "3rd Saturday in October" rivalry for Bama/UT in order to add two teams that virtually nobody in SEC territory gives a flying fuck about.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, because if you have to play everyone in your division, now that's 6 games instead of 5, plus 2 against the other division gives you 8. So if your 2 in the other division are permanent, you NEVER play the other 6? Or am I adding that up wrong? So unless they go to 9 conference games or remove a permanent rivalry, you don't play 6 out of the 14 teams in your conference.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Yeah, because if you have to play everyone in your division, now that's 6 games instead of 5, plus 2 against the other division gives you 8. So if your 2 in the other division are permanent, you NEVER play the other 6? Or am I adding that up wrong? So unless they go to 9 conference games or remove a permanent rivalry, you don't play 6 out of the 14 teams in your conference.

I would think that if they moved Auburn east they'd have to go to
9 conf games = 6 same div + 2 perm + 1 rotating (basically 1 visit every 10 years for those five teams)

Auburn seems like the most problematic team to move from west to east (although doing so actually screws up Bama's schedule) under an 8 conference game schedule, with Arkansas being the easiest to move. Their permanent East opponent at the moment is S.Car and that series only goes back to the last expansion.

Move the Hawgs east and you stay at 8 with 6 same + 1 perm + 1 rotating (makes for one visit every 12 years by your opposite half non-perm). You make A&M/Arkansas one new perm and MU/SC the other (unless there's more history with Mizzou/Arkansas than I recall).

edit to add: Just to clarify, there's current only one permanent team from the other side. That worked okay since it allowed Bama/UT and Aub/UGA to be the perms with their other rivals being in the same half with them anyway. The minute you move Auburn (or likewise Bama I guess) then you start screwing up stuff for an 8 game conf schedule.

[Chief Rum]

Wait, so TT would apply to join the Pac 12? Obviously, that's not just happening in a TT vacuum. What is the scenario under which they would apply? Is this back to some form of the suggestion from last year, with four Big 12 teams (the others presumeably being UT, OU and OSU) applying to join the Pac 12?

BTW, as was surmised in the past few days, I don't see the Pac 12 just accepting the LHN, even if they want Texas in, but I am not sure if it's worth it to the conference to expand if the four candidates are instead something like TT, Baylor, OU and OSU. Not only does not having UT in there make expanding much less attractive, but going to 16 teams without UT would appear to eliminate the possibility of adding UT in the future.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

FWIW.....Really doubt that it's going to stop at 14 teams. The TT poster on Tigerboard said 16 teams is likely. Barrett Sallee (SEC writer for College Football News) was on Omaha and KC radio this morning. He said everything he's heard is that 16 will be the number. He said that A&M, Mizzou, NC State and Virginia Tech are the names he continues to hear. Tim Brando (announces SEC games for CBS) said something similar on his Sirius radio show.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Wait, so TT would apply to join the Pac 12? Obviously, that's not just happening in a TT vacuum. What is the scenario under which they would apply? Is this back to some form of the suggestion from last year, with four Big 12 teams (the others presumeably being UT, OU and OSU) applying to join the Pac 12?

TT needs UT to go in order to be included. TT doesn't get a bid without UT. I think OU and OSU could still get an offer without UT going.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

FWIW.....Really doubt that it's going to stop at 14 teams. The TT poster on Tigerboard said 16 teams is likely. Barrett Sallee (SEC writer for College Football News) was on Omaha and KC radio this morning. He said everything he's heard is that 16 will be the number. He said that A&M, Mizzou, NC State and Virginia Tech are the names he continues to hear. Tim Brando (announces SEC games for CBS) said something similar on his Sirius radio show.

I don't think FSU's current AD and overall power structure is well-positioned to jump in and secure something better for itself. So it would seem that FSU and Clemson would get screwed if the ACC ends up weakened. Who are they going to pick up, Louisville and West Virginia? Maybe UCF or USF? I can't imagine FSU or Miami would want the other Florida schools in the ACC.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I don't think FSU's current AD and overall power structure is well-positioned to jump in and secure something better for itself. So it would seem that FSU and Clemson would get screwed if the ACC ends up weakened. Who are they going to pick up, Louisville and West Virginia? Maybe UCF or USF? I can't imagine FSU or Miami would want the other Florida schools in the ACC.

I have increasingly heard that WVU and Pitt will end up in the ACC if/when the conferences move to 14. There also seems to be some sentiment that Syracuse and UConn (plus UConn and Boston College are not on very bad terms) do not want to leave the basketball schools behind and would rather make a go of it in the Big East (w/ or without an ACC or SEC expansion), so I think Louisville and Rutgers would be in the conversation, as well.

Apparently, Louisville is a hot name now because, with their new arena, their basketball program ended up generating more income than all be 20 or so football programs. I think Dan Beebe will reach out to them and BYU if/when AtM and Missouri leave the Big 12 (not sure either will show interest).

[Logan]

Not that it's something that couldn't be changed, but I thought ACC eligibility required being in a state touching the coast?

[Toddzilla]

Said it before, will say it again, there is no way Louisville will ever be in the same conference as Va Tech. VT simply will not let that happen.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Logan

Not that it's something that couldn't be changed, but I thought ACC eligibility required being in a state touching the coast?

Each current member does, not sure that it's something required in the by-laws though.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Said it before, will say it again, there is no way Louisville will ever be in the same conference as Va Tech. VT simply will not let that happen.

If VT is in the SEC, then Louisville could join the ACC.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Said it before, will say it again, there is no way Louisville will ever be in the same conference as Va Tech. VT simply will not let that happen.

I have repeatedly heard that about Louisville and VPI/UVA. What is the backstory there?

[Toddzilla]

In brief, when both VT and Louisville were in the Metro, Louisville led a coalition of other members to kick VT (and VCU) out of the conference so they could form C-USA. VT and VCU sued the rest of the league, claiming that each of the other teams were in effect leaving the Metro, so each team owed VT and VCU the severance penalty. I think the end result was each VT and VCU were paid $1M and the conference was dissolved.

This left VT high and dry for all sports but football - they were football-only members of the Big East and the BE wouldn't allow VT to join as full members - and led to a bizzare 5 years in the Atlantic-10.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sports by Brooks (@SPORTSbyBROOKS) tweets that vote was taken on whether to consider schools in current SEC states. Vote was 6-5 against with one abstention. So FSU and Clemson are out. Makes the previously rumored additions likely to be the ones selected.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Sports by Brooks (@SPORTSbyBROOKS) tweets that vote was taken on whether to consider schools in current SEC states. Vote was 6-5 against with one abstention. So FSU and Clemson are out. Makes the previously rumored additions likely to be the ones selected.

Maybe selected for invitations, but I think VPI and, to a lesser extent, NC State are going to have a difficult time bailing on the ACC. Those two make the most sense geographically and from a "SEC-minded school" perspective(assuming UNC won't leave the ACC), but they are unlikely to be able to pull off the move.

No way that the state government will let VPI leave behind UVA in a weakened ACC after pulling so many strings to get them an invitation.

I don't have as good of a pulse on whether or not NC State would be allowed to leave, but I'm guessing anything that resembles NC State advancing to a greater position than UNC would be a tough sell for the state government.

[I. J. Reilly]

So I still don’t really understand why the SEC is looking to add anyone right now. Is it just so they can tear up the current TV deal and start over? That seems like a pretty short sighted reason to add 4 teams to your conference.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Maybe selected for invitations, but I think VPI and, to a lesser extent, NC State are going to have a difficult time bailing on the ACC. Those two make the most sense geographically and from a "SEC-minded school" perspective(assuming UNC won't leave the ACC), but they are unlikely to be able to pull off the move.

No way that the state government will let VPI leave behind UVA in a weakened ACC after pulling so many strings to get them an invitation.

I don't have as good of a pulse on whether or not NC State would be allowed to leave, but I'm guessing anything that resembles NC State advancing to a greater position than UNC would be a tough sell for the state government.

Yeah, the VT situation is an interesting one. The rumor is that if VT declines, the University of Maryland would be the next choice.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

So I still don’t really understand why the SEC is looking to add anyone right now. Is it just so they can tear up the current TV deal and start over? That seems like a pretty short sighted reason to add 4 teams to your conference.

Because they want to be the ones who get first choice. If they wait until next season, very good chance that the B10 makes a bit to grab Mizzou, Maryland, or VT and leave them with less options outside the SEC footprint.

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Because they want to be the ones who get first choice. If they wait until next season, very good chance that the B10 makes a bit to grab Mizzou, Maryland, or VT and leave them with less options outside the SEC footprint.

So if both the B10 and the SEC offered a spot to Mizzou, where would they go?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

So if both the B10 and the SEC offered a spot to Mizzou, where would they go?

I would guess the Big 10 but my hope is that they can figure out some way to stay together with Kansas and Oklahoma and even Iowa State, OSU, and K-State. There are a lot of homers around here hoping for a SEC invite but I really would dread playing there in football and IMO the Big 10 is about the most boring football conference in the country. (Note I didn't say bad, just boring. Kind of how I feel about the NFC when compared to the AFC)

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by panerd

I would guess the Big 10 but my hope is that they can figure out some way to stay together with Kansas and Oklahoma and even Iowa State, OSU, and K-State. There are a lot of homers around here hoping for a SEC invite but I really would dread playing there in football and IMO the Big 10 is about the most boring football conference in the country. (Note I didn't say bad, just boring. Kind of how I feel about the NFC when compared to the AFC)

3 yards and a cloud of dust is not boring. You just do not appreciate the fine art of jamming the ball down someones throat.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

So if both the B10 and the SEC offered a spot to Mizzou, where would they go?

Admin and boosters prefer Big 10, but they're taking the first offer at this point. Waiting could leave them out of a bigger conference initially and that's not something they're interested in dealing with.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

Sounds like A&M is already all but gone after this latest tweet from the UT Minister of Information......

@ChipBrownOB An A&M official just told me they were not on the call when guidelines for 2nd game on LHN were discussed and agreed to by B12 presidents.

[Swaggs]

I've been following this pretty closely and this is the first time I've heard a thing about Maryland.

I've heard half a dozen of Southern ACC schools (FSU, Clemson, UNC, GT, UNC, VPI), A&M, Missouri, Oklahoma/OSU, WVU, and Louisville.

SEC going for Maryland would be an interesting play. I think that would make the Big Ten consider expanding again (even though common sense tells me that they will be happy to sit tight and that they are pleased with the Nebraska addition on its own), with Maryland and UVA (and possibly Georgia Tech) in its sights, which could give VPI an opportunity to leave to the SEC (since both UVA and VPI would find themselves in better situations). If the Big Ten and SEC start picking off ACC teams, I think it is a best case scenario for us Big East fans, as it would probably lead to a merged Big East/ACC 16 (or greater).

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Because they want to be the ones who get first choice. If they wait until next season, very good chance that the B10 makes a bit to grab Mizzou, Maryland, or VT and leave them with less options outside the SEC footprint.

There's that, but I wouldn't discount the TV contract, either. Not after the deal the PAC10 just got.

[Ksyrup]

It really feels like the ACC is in serious trouble, and I wonder if it doesn't jump to a 1B to the Big 12's 1A in terms of conferences in line for extinction if 2 teams leave the Big 12 and the SEC looks for 2 east partners. You have to imagine those choices are coming from the ACC. Who else? USF and UCF are in Florida, which makes them as off limits as FSU. WVA and PITT aren't southeastern. Gotta come from the ACC. If the ACC is left with 10 teams, one of which is going to be a severely weakened Miami...yikes. I guess they raid the Big East.

In any event, if this really does happen, and the SEC goes to 16, it's going to touch off the bomb we all thought was going to detonate last summer.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Maybe selected for invitations, but I think VPI and, to a lesser extent, NC State are going to have a difficult time bailing on the ACC. Those two make the most sense geographically and from a "SEC-minded school" perspective(assuming UNC won't leave the ACC), but they are unlikely to be able to pull off the move.

No way that the state government will let VPI leave behind UVA in a weakened ACC after pulling so many strings to get them an invitation.

I don't have as good of a pulse on whether or not NC State would be allowed to leave, but I'm guessing anything that resembles NC State advancing to a greater position than UNC would be a tough sell for the state government.

NC State isn't going anywhere, as far as I can tell.

North Carolina State University is a constituent institution of the University of North Carolina (UNC) system. According to The UNC Code, NC State shall have a board of trustees composed of thirteen persons: eight are elected by the UNC Board of Governors, four are appointed by the governor, and the remaining member is the president of the student government, ex officio.

North Carolina State University :: Board of Trustees

So...the UNC people get to pick over half of the people that run NC State? In that case, they're attached at the hip.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

WVA and PITT aren't southeastern.

But neither are a lot of the other names that seem to be getting play. If the SEC does go to 16, it seems pretty clear that geography isn't all that much of an issue (except for same-state teams).

Gotta come from the ACC. If the ACC is left with 10 teams, one of which is going to be a severely weakened Miami...yikes. I guess they raid the Big East.

Probably, although I wouldn't discount UCF/South Florida as possibilities either. Nor, off the top of my head, Louisville for that matter (if the "touching the coast" thing isn't a strict requirement at that point).