Mixed Martial Arts Thread (UFC and others)

[Edward64]

Just watching bits and pieces of the Cormier-Lewis fight.

Wonder if the Gracies and their domination from the 90's would hold up in current day (probably not). The early UFC was more fun to watch (but admittedly more dangerous for the contestants) with less rules, more variety in the MA (good or bad), and multiple fights until you lose.

[thesloppy]

Crazy finish to Rodriguez / Korean Zombie.

[azjoe_02]

Yes a crazy finish, indeed. KZ was winning IMO at least 3 rounds to 2, maybe 4-1. He didn't need to run in like that with seconds remaining, but wanted to put on a show and try for his own finish. For that he ended up face-planted out cold. Definitely a KO of the year finalist.

[CU Tiger]

I thought it was mighty mighty close to a saved by the bell ....really shocked it wasnt tbh

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by azjoe_02

Yes a crazy finish, indeed. KZ was winning IMO at least 3 rounds to 2, maybe 4-1.

Yup, just had to last that last few seconds.

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I thought it was mighty mighty close to a saved by the bell ....really shocked it wasnt tbh

I wasn't sure either.....but I also would've told you it was a headbutt before I saw the replay. I never saw a replay with the clock, but I was surprised when they announced that it was tied for the second latest finish in UFC history....so not only was there apparently time left, but some other fight somehow finished later? I suppose I could easily look that up, but I'm far too lazy.

Here's a few angles of the finish:

https://twitter.com/BKactual/status/...07650490327040

[Edward64]

Nice elbow.

Is that a MMA move?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Nice elbow.

Is that a MMA move?

A little late here, but absolutely. As long as it's not going straight down ("12 to 6"). Jon Jones' only MMA loss is by DQ for throwing 12-6 elbows.

Yair is known for his creative striking so that was right in his wheelhouse.

And no saved by the bell in MMA. As long as the strike is before the bell, its a KO even if the fighter doesn't hit the ground until after the bell. (so you can have a 5:00 KO that way). So if it's a close call, sometimes refs will give the knocked down fighter the benefit of the doubt unless he's CLEARLY unconscious, like Zombie was here.

[molson]

I watched the whole Chuck/Tito fight.

I think everybody knew this was a terrible idea, but to see Chuck actually try to throw punches and move around....well, I guess he needed the money. Of course I'm complicit it watching it, but, I was morbidly curious. And going in, I kind of thought this might be a fixed fight like Shamrock/Kimbo might have been, but, nope, definitely not.

[PilotMan]

I thought the Tito/Chael fight was fixed, and that was a sad excuse for a fight. I thought that Chael would roll over for Fedor, but he actually gave it a go early on, knowing he'd lose the longer the fight went.



Fedor/Bader could be good, but Bader has found a home at heavyweight and is a complete animal. He's in his prime and Fedor isn't. That will be the difference maker, and it'll be brutal.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by molson

I watched the whole Chuck/Tito fight.

I think everybody knew this was a terrible idea, but to see Chuck actually try to throw punches and move around....well, I guess he needed the money. Of course I'm complicit it watching it, but, I was morbidly curious. And going in, I kind of thought this might be a fixed fight like Shamrock/Kimbo might have been, but, nope, definitely not.

The grind that you go through training MMA is not conducive to a senior tour, hopefully they stop with these carnival attractions.

Hell training jiu jitsu this is my surgery ledger in just the last 2+ years, all related to the sport.

Torn rotator cuff - Surgery
Triple hernia - Surgery
Torn meniscus both knees - Pending surgeries

Granted, I am 55 and nowhere near high level, but still, this sport is brutal and we have already had someone nearly die in one of these spectacle fights. I am really surprised states continue to sanction this crap.

[PilotMan]

More on the Liddell/Ortiz fight.


hxxps://deadspin.com/seriously-how-the-fuck-did-anyone-let-chuck-liddell-fi-1830659650

[molson]

In MMA, sometimes the insanity out of the cage is just as entertaining as what happens in it.

Jon Jones fails another drug test, but USADA thinks it's just residue from a previous drug test failure. So it was a half-drug test failure. Something you only see with Jon Jones (like his previous suspension being reduced based on his willingness to be an undercover drug spy for USADA or something - no word if he's caught anybody yet.) But Nevada isn't willing to license him to fight. EVEN Nevada, with their glorious history of strictly enforced rules and regulations in the world of combat sports.

California was more receptive to hosting a major UFC event, so, the UFC did the obvious thing, move the whole show, including all 25 other fighters and their families and coaches, to Los Angeles on two weeks notice. Which really sucks for everyone who made travel plans to come to Vegas, which, for these Vegas shows, is probably most of the fans.

[molson]

That was great first show for the UFC on ESPN. And ESPN is going all in with trying to elevate the sport, ESPN.com has UFC headlines all over the place.

Cejudo's performance in the main even was incredible, but I'll most remember Greg Hardy gassing out and then blatantly hitting an illegal knee and getting DQ'd.

[bhlloy]

Cowboy looked good against a decent opponent yet again. If he can get the fight against Conor that will really be something to look forward to.

The Hardy thing is just distasteful all around. He never should have been the co-main event on a card with so many great fighters, and probably shouldn’t have been promoted at all. The one black mark on what was a very good night for the UFC. They didn’t need that gimmick.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Cejudo's performance in the main even was incredible

You mean the ref's performance?

Considering how hard that's being ripped, I was shocked to see anybody praise that "fight".

[bhlloy]

I don’t think that’s even in the top 10 of bad stoppages. Maybe you can make a case that you get some extra rope in a championship fight, but I don’t really understand the outrage.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You mean the ref's performance?

Considering how hard that's being ripped, I was shocked to see anybody praise that "fight".

This is the Dana White narrative because he's pissed his plan for TJ to close the Flyweight division failed.

TJ looked like a meth addict after the weight cut and had nothing, every punch Cejudo threw landed and hurt him. Cejudo - not known for his striking, mind you - killed him and deserves the credit. If the fight went another 5 seconds, TJ would have been unconscious and the media would have been whining about how the refs don't protect the fighters, and that ESPN dropped the ball by buying into a sport like that.

My favorite was TJ wobbling around while he was protesting the stoppage. He was done. Some refs would have let Cejudo get a few more punches in, and that would have been fine, but it had no impact on the outcome of the fight. He reminded me of Michael Chisea throwing a bitchfit after Kevin Lee choked him out and the ref called it after Chiesea's arm went limp and flailed around. Like, that was part of his plan all along? They were playing possum? TJ lasted less than 30 seconds before being put down, he doesn't deserve to claim he was screwed. Both he and Chisea only got to complain afterwards because the refs saved them. In retrospect, I wish the ref gave Cejudo even more of a chance to humiliate TJ, and I wish Lee had the chance to hold on to the choke a little longer, but, they won fair and square. I hate it when the dominated losers in these scenarios try to paint the fight outcomes as flukes when they clearly both sucked hard.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

This is the Dana White narrative because he's pissed his plan for TJ to close the Flyweight division failed.

That was the reaction I saw pretty much everywhere - just from regular fans I know or celeb fans on social media that I follow - within the first few minutes of the ending. Dana hadn't had time to spin anything.

My surprise was genuine, I had seen nothing but unanimous outrage until your post.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That was the reaction I saw pretty much everywhere - just from regular fans I know or celeb fans on social media that I follow - within the first few minutes of the ending. Dana hadn't had time to spin anything.

My surprise was genuine, I had seen nothing but unanimous outrage until your post.

I know your response is legit Jon, I didn't mean to suggest otherwise - I just hate sore losers. And TJ is a sore loser who didn't show for the fight, got blitzed, and now is crying about it like it didn't count. He demanded this fight, showed NOTHING, and now is crying about the outcome even though he got his ass kicked decisively.

[PilotMan]

Finally watched this fight and Molson is right on it.

This isn't even close to a bad stoppage. TJ could have come back, but he was taking a lot of damage. How much more did he have to take? There was 4:30 minutes left, and Cejudo was never going to give him air to breath, or space to move. His grappling would have been overwhelming with Dillashaw in that position.

I know BYU will back me up, dropping a weight class is pain for fighters. Cyborg took a year to try and drop weight for the money Rousey fight that never happened, then went right back up after it nearly derailed her career. That weight cut was way harder than he expected, and his chin paid the price for it.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

This isn't even close to a bad stoppage. TJ could have come back, but he was taking a lot of damage. How much more did he have to take? There was 4:30 minutes left, and Cejudo was never going to give him air to breath, or space to move. His grappling would have been overwhelming with Dillashaw in that position.

I know BYU will back me up, dropping a weight class is pain for fighters. Cyborg took a year to try and drop weight for the money Rousey fight that never happened, then went right back up after it nearly derailed her career. That weight cut was way harder than he expected, and his chin paid the price for it.

Absolutely zero wrong with that stoppage. Part of the issue is MMA fans get too used to some fights ending with one guy in a vegetative state because some knockouts are so brutal. Those stoppages are sexy, but KO's where a fighter gets short circuited by one punch are not as damaging long term as a prolonged beating, which was on tap here.

Dillashaw was not going to come back and win this fight and was only going to get busted up worse. He was emaciated from the weight cut and even in a fight ending that quick it was apparent Cejudo was much stronger. Some of these guys cut enormous amounts of weight, and it cost Dillashaw in this fight, hopefully he learns and doesn't try it again.

As far as White railing against the stoppage, he needs to shut the fuck up. He is only raging to build a rematch and playing into the fans reaction. Remember this is the same Dana White that went off on Mario "Too Slow" Yamasaki for not stopping bouts quick enough. You can't have it both ways Dana and a slightly early stoppage is always better than a 1 punch too many stoppage.

[CU Tiger]

Meant to post last night but..


Holy Crap...Luque v Barbarena was one of the wildest fights Ive ever seen. I expected Luque to make fairly short work of him coming in....but Barbaena took more clean head shots than Ive ever seen and never went down...at least not for 14 minutes at 55 seconds. Just a war.


Fili Jury had entertaining moments, but overall I didnt know either fighter enough and was just ok.


Gracie was intriguing. I mean he choked a guy out in 30 seconds...thats what a Gracie is supposed to do. Want to see more...but maybe...


The card waned a little to me with the straw weight fight and the co-main each struggling to keep my attention


And then Velasquez v Ngannou...what a strange one.
Ive watched it 100 times. I still dont see a clean shot land, not one hard enough to put Cain down, immediately the announce team starting talking bout "blowing out a knee"...and he did fall awkwardly. But he was walking around fine afterwards with seemingly no swelling.


I really dont know what to make of that main.

[spleen1015]

I saw the replay this morning. There is a point were Velasquez steps in with his left leg and doesn't land on his foot correctly and he slides down and his knee bends kind of weird. When you see the replay from another angle, you can see he's in pain when his knee buckles and he falls down and basically gives up.

[bhlloy]

Yeah, a very weird fight all around. I actually disagree that the knee caused the KO, to be fair to Cain he didn't blame that at all post fight. I think he was going down and Francis was going to finish that fight no matter what happens.

I do think he caught him with the uppercut at one point with enough power to at least stun him, but an angle I haven't seen mentioned at all was that there was possibly an illegal shot to the back of the head to start that whole sequence. Just very strange all around.

[molson]

Cain called it a "freak accident" and said that "It was just the knee, he didn’t even, like, touch me, you know?"

But I think the "freak accident" was buckling after a 6'4 sand miner from Cameroon punched him in the face.

https://imgur.com/c2o4OR5

I think like with T.J. Dillashaw, when these guys put months and months into training, (and in Cain's case, it's been really a 3-year effort to get back to the cage), have a history of being dominant and assuming they'll always win - they just can't comprehend when they're wiped out immediately and have to look to other explanations.

[PilotMan]

Well I guess we learned way more about Matt Hughes than we ever wanted to today. Very sad for a guy whose persona was built on being such a great guy.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by molson

Cain called it a "freak accident" and said that "It was just the knee, he didn’t even, like, touch me, you know?"

But I think the "freak accident" was buckling after a 6'4 sand miner from Cameroon punched him in the face.

https://imgur.com/c2o4OR5

I think like with T.J. Dillashaw, when these guys put months and months into training, (and in Cain's case, it's been really a 3-year effort to get back to the cage), have a history of being dominant and assuming they'll always win - they just can't comprehend when they're wiped out immediately and have to look to other explanations.

That was a full on flush uppercut that knocked him silly. Knee or not, uppercut did him in.

[molson]

One of the things I love about MMA is the quirks....the sport is new enough where we haven't figured everything out yet.

Last night, Ben Askren has Robbie Lawler choked out. Lawler's arm actually goes limp and falls to the ground. The ref grab's Lawler's arm, and, from my perspective - actually revived him a bit, and Lawler gave a half-hearted thumbs up. The ref stopped the fight, Lawler jumps out of the submission like he was fine the whole time, everybody is pissed.....I think the refs are in an impossible position here. OF COURSE Lawler is fine immediately after Askren releases the submission hold. That doesn't prove anything. He's OK BECAUSE Askren released the hold. It's like MMA fans and fighters feel that a choke-out submission doesn't count unless the fighter is still unconscious for some period of time after the hold is released. But from what I understand about MMA, being choked unconscious is different than being knocked out with strikes - your lights can go back on pretty much immediately after being choked out, whereas a knockout victim takes some time to gather his wits about him. So when we see a ref stop a fight because they think someone is unconscious, but then the losing fighter is fine immediately afterwards, everybody thinks it was an early stoppage. But I feel bad for the winning fighter who clearly had the fight won, and who only released the hold because the referee made them, and now their win is tainted. Kevin Lee went through the same shit, when all he did was release his choke on Michael Chisea after Chiseas' arm went limp and the ref called the fight off. Maybe they need to go to the pro wrestling rule where the ref has to raise a guy's arm three times and see it drop three times before calling the fight.

(Lawler/Askren was an incredible fight before that - the good news from this controversy is that they are apparently going to run that fight back).

And then the main event. Jon Jones dominates Anthony Smith. But, he also delivers a blatantly illegal knee to the head when Smith is down. Jones can't help but cheat, always. He also failed multiple drug tests coming into this fight, but those don't count anymore for reasons which would require a longer post to explain. Jones is penalized 2 points. Smith is able to continue. But, if Smith played it a little differently, if he feigns being a little more hurt, if he can convince the doctors he can't continue - he actually wins the fight by DQ and is the new Light Heavyweight Champion. So, credit to him I guess, that he refused to win the title that way and chose to continue fighting a far superior opponent, who won the decision easily despite the 2 point deduction.

[thesloppy]

I have a very deep and completely irrational hatred of Ben Askren, so that was a particularly tough finish for me to watch.

[molson]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I have a very deep and completely irrational hatred of Ben Askren, so that was a particularly tough finish for me to watch.

Haha, I'm the same boat, I loved those early moments when I thought Lawler was just going to smash Askren, but, Askren won me over the way he came back. There was something very compelling about this guy with a dad bod who has only beaten tomato cans in Asia suddenly going toe to toe with a guy like Lawler and actually taking Lawler's best shot and continuing on until he could wrap him up for a submission. It was very much a throwback to the early days of MMA, seeing guy like Askren suddenly thrown into the deep end of the UFC.

[thesloppy]

It was certainly the most exciting fight I've ever seen Askren fight, I wish it could've gone on longer. That said, I also thought Lawler was out in real time, so it's hard to really call it a bad stoppage.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

It was certainly the most exciting fight I've ever seen Askren fight, I wish it could've gone on longer. That said, I also thought Lawler was out in real time, so it's hard to really call it a bad stoppage.

You can't call it a bad stoppage and even though a full on blood choke would generally take 4-5 minutes to result in death, some degree of brain damage can occur in as little as 20-30 seconds and most definitely starts to occur 50 seconds to a minute. Obviously in a sanctioned bout the referee would not let choke go that long, but Herb Dean really couldn't just sit there and let that dangerous of a position go much longer.

I have tapped to plenty of chokes because I recognize when I am caught, but the one time I went completely out I thought I was safe, felt very alert and was working to create more space to escape. Then I heard the brown belt I was rolling with asking me if I was okay and I said yeah what happened and realized I was laying on my back and him and another guy that trains there were looking down on me LOL. Dana should know this, but again he hates Askren and isn't ever going to do him any favors.

I could have easily accepted the fight getting stopped when Askren was getting pummeled after being dropped on his head and it looked like Dean was close right before Askren established half guard and working to get the whizzer.

[thesloppy]

I'm sure I could look this up, but I've never properly figured out what a whizzer is, despite years of casual MMA watching.

It's a same side overhook and a leg hook? Opposite side? I'm gonna finally go look it up now, I guess.

Edit...it was much less complicated than I was giving it credit for.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I'm sure I could look this up, but I've never properly figured out what a whizzer is, despite years of casual MMA watching.

It's a same side overhook and a leg hook? Opposite side? I'm gonna finally go look it up now, I guess.

Edit...it was much less complicated than I was giving it credit for.

LOL, guess I could have just said overhook

[PilotMan]

And Dillashaw, after getting KOed by Cejudo going down to flyweight, now loses (relinquishes) his bantamweight title after failing his drug test. So he's out for a year now. This continues to kill the UFC's ability to build champions and build on their marketing.

[molson]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

And Dillashaw, after getting KOed by Cejudo going down to flyweight, now loses (relinquishes) his bantamweight title after failing his drug test. So he's out for a year now. This continues to kill the UFC's ability to build champions and build on their marketing.

I should/could end up 2 years under USADA for a first offense, but some favored fighters seem to avoid that.

He might even be a big enough star to get the Jon Jones treatment - immunity from future drug use failures for years to come due to the "pulsing effect" - even though we were all assured at the time with Jones that the amount of the substance was so low and temporary that it couldn't possibly help him in a fight....

[PilotMan]

Getting caught up on my DVR and back in Feb, Bellator had a main event between Mitrione and Kharitonov. The very first exchange of the first round Mitrione hits Sergei with a massive low blow to the nuts that stops the fight. Sergei spends 5 minutes on the ground writhing in pain and has to be carried off on a stretcher. Fight over, no contest. That is a first for me, and how awful for fans. Even Bellator can't catch a break with fights.

[bhlloy]

That Pettis KO is something else... I don’t think Herb was noticeably late getting in there but that could have been a really bad situation with the two extra that he was able to land while he was clearly out.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

That Pettis KO is something else... I don’t think Herb was noticeably late getting in there but that could have been a really bad situation with the two extra that he was able to land while he was clearly out.

Is there a highlight gif somewhere? I'm trying to avoid the rest of that card.

[molson]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Is there a highlight gif somewhere? I'm trying to avoid the rest of that card.

Short video clip of the finish

vthvre - Streamable

[thesloppy]

Thanks molson!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Sooooo CMcG announces his retirement from MMA via Twitter tonight?

Complete with Dana twitter reaction?

(I saw this only because Ronda Rousey & Finn Balor were among the first to respond, including the latter's "see you at WM")

[thesloppy]

Hmm. My opinion regarding Conor has gone all over the map through the years. In the beginning I was a total fan boy and I lapped up whatever he was selling, as he seemed like a truly exceptional talker AND fighter, and he was an absolute blast to watch. Later on the act kept getting more and more grating, and at the same time the act of actually fighting obviously became less and less of a priority for him (not that I can ever blame anyone for not wanting to get punched in the face)....somewhere in there being a fan of Conor crossed over into being much more effort than the ever-shrinking returns were worth, and I entirely stopped caring about what he was up to or anything he said. I don't get the impression I'm in the minority in that regard.

It's kind of a shame that he started out looking like a game-changing fighter, but in the end his biggest legacy is perhaps how he changed the UFC by exhibiting that a mid-tier fighter could effectively talk his way past a top-level fight or two & into immediate title contention, and now that's what everybody tries to do, though almost nobody has the mouth OR fight skills to back up all that blather. Like a bad camper, it's hard not to feel like Conor left the MMA environment in worse shape than when he came in.

So I guess goodbye, good job, good luck, and good riddance to some degree?

[PilotMan]

Completely agree sloppy. I mean I actually liked him on TUF when he was coaching. He had great things to say to his guys, and he was a true camp leader. He knows his shit. After that little hiccup he was back to his true nature. You're right about the leaving MMA in worse shape, and convincing leadership that fighters can strongarm their way into title shots with words. I was fine with Lesnar, because he was bringing an already huge name and resume into the fight game with him, while Conor was basically just trying to sell a persona he was developing. The Bus incident should have gotten him tossed, for good, imo, that was dangerous, classless and a legitimate assault. He really should never set foot in an octagon or any other fighting circle ever again. His fight against Mayweather was interesting, only because Floyd never took him seriously and did not train to the levels that we had hoped. Pretty much showed up with enough skill to run Conor into the ground, then took him out. Very weak shit there, and gave Conor a fight legitimacy he never deserved. I'm tired of people buying his bullshit so him going away can only improve things I think. It may get the UFC away from trying to create superstars out of a couple guys, rather than letting all that hype and flow develop naturally.

[molson]

Conor has retired before in the middle of contract negotiations.

It's a meaningless gesture in MMA. There's no official papers to sign, so official season to skip. He may stay away if the UFC doesn't meet his terms, but he'll come back if they do. Not fighting is the only leverage fighters have. And that's real leverage for Conor because he's made hundreds of millions of dollars fighting.

Word is that they were close on a Cowboy Cerrone fight but they couldn't come to terms. Nate Diaz doesn't want to fight anymore because he's having too much fun doing what the Diaz brothers do. Conor may have reached the point of his career where he's worth a little less than he was a few years ago to the UFC but he's not willing to bring his price down.

Edit: Expansion of the Ali Act to MMA is also floating around Congress and would possibly give Conor the chance to promote his own fights, or give more power to the athletic commissions whom Conor can more easily buy.

[thesloppy]

I'm only barely following this mess, but now it appears that maybe Conor raped somebody in Ireland?? Anybody got any dirt on that?

Regardless of THAT massive bombshell, if his retirement is only a negotiation tactic I think he may be naive to how much clout, draw & support he's lost since the last time he tried such a move, and I imagine there's plenty of folks in the UFC who would be happy to force him to stick to his word, just to be rid of the headache. On the other hand, money heals all wounds, and the fight/promotion game is not exactly built on a pile of past honor and staunch ethics.

[molson]

T.J. Dillashaw suspended two years after getting caught cheating for his fight against Cejudo where he was beat in 32 seconds.

USADA suspends Dillashaw 2 years for EPO use

He popped for EPO, some high-end injectable-only cycling-level stuff. You won't find it in your local gas station's dick pills. It's the very stuff Cody Garband accused him of using last year.

[JPhillips]

This seems like the best option for boxing, so...

Holy shit that Dontae Wilder first round KO was something else. The sound alone...

IT'S OVER. WILDER KNOCKS OUT BREAZEALE I ROUND 1 pic.twitter.com/bJOAxBP2Hw

— CBS Sports (@CBSSports) May 19, 2019

[miami_fan]

There goes that Wilder- Joshua fight.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

There goes that Wilder- Joshua fight.

-2500/+1100


Now that's a spread.